Oh dear. Roosh V’s rebranding campaign isn’t going well at all.
The increasingly reactionary pickup guru, who seems deathly afraid of being universally recognized as the creepy old guy at the club that he so obviously has become, is earnestly trying to transform himself into a philosopher of sorts, and a sort of manosphere elder. He recently gave his highly unoriginal philosophy a name — “Neomasculinity” — and proclaimed himself the headmaster of this “new” school of thought.
I put “new” in scare quotes because there is nothing whatsoever new about his “ideas,” such as they are; his philosophy is little more than a warmed-over version of Red Pill dogma, with some extra helpings of racism, homophobia, and good-old-fashioned patriarchy.
In an attempt to convince the world that he is indeed selling something new and improved, Roosh has launched an attack on his former Red Pill allies. In a post on Friday, he declared that the Red Pill was over:
The red pill term has served its use in the past five years, but a quick perusal of the red pill subreddit or related blogs show that it’s too focused on sex at sacrifice of greater political and cultural issues. It has become an entry-level group for men in their 20’s who just started getting laid, but this can only serve as a transitory stage.
Once a man has gotten his fill of casual sex, and is looking for deeper meaning in his relationships or satisfaction with life, the red pill has few answers besides running “dread game” on your wife, maintaining “good style” to attract young females when older, or the ever vague “work on yourself.” Neomasculinity will aim to fill in these gaps by serving men regardless of their age or involvement in the game.
He went on to complain that the Red Pill “has no council of elders to guide the ideology” and that it has failed to stop women from “declin[ing] in their virtue” and getting fat. (Yeah, he’s a bit obsessed with that.)
In a followup video yesterday, Roosh made very clear just who he thinks should be the chairman of the manosphere’s council of elders. SPOILER ALERT: It’s him. Indeed, in the video, Roosh claims that he invented the Red Pill philosophy, with some help from other reactionary “game” bloggers like Roissy/Heartiste and Rollo Tomassi.
He also declared that there would be no “homosexuals” allowed into his Neomasculinity club, because the idea of men using Red Pill techniques to get “buttsex” strikes him as inherently ridiculous.
It’s not hard to guess at what Roosh’s real motivations here are. He seems to have burned himself out as a pickup artist; apparently the years he’s spent trying to cajole or coerce drunken Eastern European women he hates into sex haven’t provided him with much lasting satisfaction.
He ran out of things to say on the subject a long time ago, and traffic at his personal blog has stagnated, at least according to Alexa’s far-from-foolproof estimates. His more broadly reactionary group blog Return of Kings is far more popular, but Alexa reports that its traffic has been down much of the year.
Not surprisingly, Roosh’s attempt to declare himself king of the manosphere did not go over terribly well on the Red Pill subreddit. Most saw it as a moneygrab, and a rather desperate attempt to hang on to relevance in a scene that’s moving on from him.
As BurgundyCarpet wrote,
The problem with Neomasculinity is that its synonymous with “Roosh V.” He’s trying to create an alternative to the Red Pill. Yet the only significant practical differences between TRP and Neomasculinity are:
Roosh has complete control
Roosh stands to profit
I respected Roosh until he pulled this lame bullshit move. He’s trying to monetize TRP by changing the name of TRP. I like the guy and I like his work but this entire “Neomasculinity” thing is the most transparently self-serving bullshit ive ever seen.
Others were even less kind. Elatusa dug the knife in deep, and twisted it:
He was always a beta PUA who, once he got some pussy, decided to try monetize every tip anyone in the community ever shared. …
I have 0 respect for him as a man, especially now that he’s trying to sell TRP theories under his own brand.
“Fuck him, I never liked him anyway,” DOCTORxTEETH added. “His eyes stick out too fucking far.”
Red Pill clowner GayLubeOil, meanwhile, dropped the ultimate Red Pill dis, declaring that “Roosh doesn’t even lift.”
Roosh’s response to all this was to indignantly deny that he was trying to cash in on his lingering celebrity. And to attack thee Red Pillers for posting on Reddit, which Roosh has somehow convinced himself is a “virulent matriarchy” run by radical feminists. No, really.
Here’s the rant he posted on his own forums, which is so jaw-droppingly divorced from reality that it’s worth quoting in full. I’ve bolded a few highlights.
Speaking of profit, The Red Pill members make a big show about information being free, but they seem to forget that they regularly post on a for-profit platform owned by the most die hard feminists in Silicon Valley, perhaps the world, and led by a litigious feminist itself (Ellen Pao) that is on the verge of passing more oppressive rules. TRP subreddit exists because the feminists who own the site have allowed them to post. For men who are obsessed with being “alpha” and maintaining “frame,” they have volunteered to position themselves on a lower hierarchy compared to these elite feminists.
Every single page view they give reddit, they aid feminists. Every single comment they post, they increase the profit of this anti-man corporation, and even if ads are not always directly on TRP, the huge amount of page views that the subreddit gives reddit overall is definitely used to sell ads sitewide through their advertising spec sheets.
So either indirect or directly, everyone who regularly posts on that site is increasing the money that feminists make, improving the popularity of their platform to better bring SJW and far left thought to the masses, and improving the financial support that Silicon Valley feminists receive. How they can reconcile that fact by critiquing me for selling books shows how confused these men are, and how they are merely parroting red pill ideas and not living in the spirit of them.
I wish no ill will on these men, but I told them from day one to go forth and build their own platform. They did not listen to my advice, and are now being overseen by the enemy—a virulent matriarchy—whom they so despise, and who can shutdown their so-called “frame” with only a few clicks. When that happens, they are welcome here in this community where they can finally learn from men who live more truly to masculine ideals.
So far the biggest winners in this little manosphere war are those watching on the sidelines, and laughing. It’s reminiscent of the embarrassing spectacle that ensued when Paul Elam tried to declare himself King of the MGTOWs. Expect much more hilarity ahead.
I think all his “true stories” are, at best, tall tales. More likely, complete fiction.
There is no doubt about it in my mind. What woman on Earth would be attracted to this pathetic excuse for a male human being? His only possible (though still improbable) chances are with some very desperate, probably drunk, and/or naive women who likely feel pity for him.
I watched that video of his. Oh, lord. It is distilled narcissistic self-delusion without any redeeming features. One hopes for a punchline of the “Gotcha! You’ve been pranked!” kind at the end, but no such luck.
Also no signs of intelligence or humor or vitality. Just pompous droning on (and on, and on) about his own importance, punctuated with chastising the ingrates for not recognizing it, and concluded with a most peculiar laughter when mentioning that no homosexuals would be allowed in his “new” movement (which is exactly like the old movement, only with a slightly modified lingo; cuz neomasculinity is like neonazism — same hatreds wrapped in different packaging).
I read the comments under Doosh’s manifesto with relish. It is always so entertaining to watch The (ir)Rational Males of the sphere engage in cat fights* that consist of passive-aggressive jabs, pointless whining, backstabbing, laugh-inducing grandstanding, and other soap operatic maneuvers. Neomasculinity promises to be at least as much fun as the old masculinity, of the spherians, always has been.
A couple of comments, however, caught my attention for another reason. Here is “advancedatheist” (!) in his own words:
So child molestation is “mystery of Game,” eh? Awesome. The more we know. Just in case we thought it was only religious fundies who championed sex predation, on children (and not only), as a normal part of masculinity.
But since that initial comment of his was ignored (not even one upvote? what’s up, manurespherian pedophiles? asleep at the keyboard? ah, long holiday weekend, I see), the not-too-terribly advanced prick presses on:
Notice that for the sick f*** molesting little girls counts as much needed (for “betas,” with whom he no doubt identifies) “sexual experience.”
It is precious how they turn around and accuse “feminists” of “demonizing male sexuality,” while they are doing such a great job of it all by their eff’d up selves.
*With apologies to cats.
Guys- it’s either ok or it’s not. How do you know I’m not ‘taking it back’? I certainly have the diagnostic cred.
You can’t defend Policy of Madness’s use of the word madness and attack me for the same. And at least one of you has attacked me on a personal level for other things completely unrelated to this on a couple of occasions. And I was picked on earlier in this thread and had comments deliberately taken out of context, so maybe I’m feeling extra sensitive. (And actually the comments policy doesn’t say anything about this and I actually do not think I was equating mental illness with MRM-dom, I know I certainly did not intend to)
I’d really prefer to discuss what I came here to read about.
But feel free to make a complaint and get me banned. I’m spending too much time here anyway. And I’m certainly not engaging with anyone on this topic any further.
PoM is using it to describe themselves. You’re using it to describe other people in a negative way. There’s a big difference.
“However that didn’t stop me sending an anonymous parcel stuffed with glitter to my ex-boss the other day.”
You did WHAAATTTT?!?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 🙂
Considering that one of the girls Josh molested at the time was FIVE YEARS OLD, I’m pretty sure that the family ties thing is not the only reason people view his actions with disgust and horror. Ugh.
Much alpha. So wow. Derivative shit for the, uh, WIN. >snicker<
If those girls had been the same ages as his very small sisters, we’d still be calling it molestation. But since most of them were his SISTERS, we call it INCEST. You fucking shithead.
So this is how they excuse INCEST? By calling it “sexual experience”, or “training”? Or “stepping out of bounds into alpha boy territory”? Abusing children is “alpha boy territory”, and only wrong because a pudgy little “beta” did it??? What the everfucking FUCK?
These guys are even shittier than I thought. Just when I thought they couldn’t sink any lower, they scratch right through the bottom of that rotten barrel, and keep on going!
Yes, because you don’t know how.
The fact that you are asking these questions demonstrates that you are operating in bad faith.
Because I use it to refer to mental illness, which is its proper reference. You use it to refer to whatever has displeased you, thereby conflating whatever has displeased you with mental illness and throwing the mentally ill in the same bucket with assholes and awfulness.
We’ve been over this before, and you expressed that you felt totally entitled to continue using ableist words, and lo! Here you are, still doing it.
Here you used ableist words, and when called out on it, you insisted that it’s actually fine because no harm done. And now you’re doing it again!
Because you fucking did it, and you’re fucking doing it again.
I tried constructive dialogue and I got bullshit thrown at me. I’m done with being “constructive” with you.
You are the problem. You are damaging people like me, in public, and I’m fucking calling you out, in public.
Yeah, this is why “constructive dialogue” doesn’t work on you. You have zero ability to take any kind of criticism and your skin is about 1 micron thick. There’s no point in trying to save your feelings because it can’t be done, so I’ll merely be satisfied if you stop actively harming me by using words you don’t actually have to use.
You are not wrong. I am resisting the stigma and accepting madness as an identity.
Because after you clutched your pearls here, you fucking did it again:
Because Advanced Atheist comments here from time to time, I want to address this. Briefly, bc I don’t intend to drudge up the past too much.
@Advanced Atheist YOU may call it ‘fumbling efforts’ or wtf-ever. When it happened to me, at 8, and my sister, at 4 (over the course of a year or so), I know what my family fucking called it and the older boy in question never set foot anywhere near us again. And I know how I thought of it throughout childhood, my teen years, into my twenties.
Have some fucking compassion. Seriously, give it a shot. I know you can do it.
Madness, madness, they call it madness
Madness, madness, they call it madness
It’s plain to see
That is what they mean to me
Madness, madness, they call it gladness, ha-ha
Just fuck off. I’m ready for you to be banned at any time now.
rugby – I think you usually post in good faith, but c’mon…do you really not see the difference between someone calling themselves something and someone labeling others something?
The first claims power (even if – sometimes especially if – it’s a term generally used derisively), the latter takes it both from those labeled and those associated-by-proxy.
I mean, dude.
Setting aside for a moment the sheer disgustingness of lecturing a child molester, not because it’s WRONG, but because he didn’t go about it the right way (as if there is a right way to molest a 5 year old)…what is with the obsession among these guys with physiognomy? It’s like they put all their stock in discredited 19th century notions of jaw measurements and criminality (or whatever the hell constitutes “beta-ish features”…I can’t even). They’re so confident they can size people up at a glance like thoroughbreds, even though they’re about the last people in the world who are qualified to evaluate others, on account of their shit values, solipsism, and constant projection.
Also, of course, he’s doing this post hoc, as a way of nudging Josh Duggar into the “beta camp” now that he’s transgressed. Oh no, he couldn’t POSSIBLY be one of us! Look at his inadequate wrist circumference!
If the way a person looked actually correlated with their inner thoughts, MRAs would resemble the repulsive, dime-sized pieces of black slime that plop abruptly out of unrefrigerated maple syrup bottles and ruin a perfectly good stack of pancakes.
Phrenology is totally alpha. o.O
My boyfriend used to go on all these pua websites and he believed the same stuff roosh does about ‘expired women’ and ‘perfect 10s’ ect before I knew him. He did the whole pick up thing for a while. Turns out like me he has aspergers and is incredibly socially awkward and used it as a way to get over his social phobia. Nonetheless he ended up falling in love and impregnating a 27 year old fat spotty girl with glasses who already had a child with someone before him (me). He’s grown out of most of his ideas now as he’s nearing 30. I have learn’t that most of these puas are all talk. You see how all these men go on about wanting 20 year old victoria’s secret model virgins and nothing else but they go on to get a stiff one over average looking women who are in their 30s and 40s like Karen Straughan or Typhonblue simply because they affirm everything these men say. It would not shock me if roosh suddenly came out with a fat woman on his arm close to his own age and changed his ‘retoric’ very slightly. Most of these men just want a woman who is submissive (which is fine if it’s a personal choice and they are not being exploited or abused. I am a submissive myself) and affirms to their ego. They want women to feel insecure and needy by reading their pages so that they will sleep with them and make them feel superior. I am pretty sure that there are some men in the ‘puasphere’ who really do stick to their guns but most of them just want a woman who is naturally submissive or has low self esteem. They publish these pages purely with the intention of giving women low self esteem because they feel insecure themselves and being seen as superior gives them a sense of pride that they wouldn’t have otherwise. Roosh is probably nearing an age where he does not want to be single any more and his traffic is falling. His ‘girlfriend’ will probably be nothing like the women he brags about on his blog.
Yes, but …
PUA essentially teaches men to behave like rapists. It teaches men to ignore boundaries.
It doesn’t teach men how to read the signs that someone is open to some kind of interaction, and approach those people. It teaches men to approach all women (or all women of a certain level of conventional attractiveness) regardless of any implicit or explicit signals a woman may be giving off to indicate that she is not interested in interaction with strangers. It teaches men to ignore a woman’s boundaries.
It teaches men to test boundaries, to lower or ignore what boundaries they find, and to isolate vulnerable women and have sex with them without being too fussed about whether or not the women are interested.
This is problematic in two ways. The obvious way is that it teaches some men to actually be rapists. When high-profile PUAs start talking, you start hearing stories of either admitted or fantasized rape. Not all PUAs take things to their logical extreme, but rape is the logical extreme of PUA.
The non-obvious way is that it normalizes rapist behavior. If you have 100 men all behaving like rapists, and in there are 8 men who are actually rapists, it makes the behavior of the actual rapists seem completely normal and makes it impossible to pick them out. If rapist behavior were abnormal, and nobody acted that way except for actual rapists, it would be a whole lot easier for people to protect themselves. By acting like rapists all the time, regardless of whether they are rapists or not, PUAs provide cover for the rapists.
When PUAs protest that they are just ordinary shy/awkward guys who want to meet women! and they totally aren’t rapists! (which is true for the majority of them) they are saying that this kind of behavior is totally normal. It isn’t normal. When a guy repeatedly violates a woman’s boundaries, she needs to shut that shit the hell down and protect herself by whatever means she has available. She shouldn’t be told that she ought to just smile and go along with it.
This is the first time I’ve seen Roosh’s face. And, uh… guy’s not very attractive for someone claiming to be the ultimate in attractiveness.
Reading the earlier discussion about the possibility of feeling sorry for Roosh, the thought came to mind that it is possible to regret that his shitty worldview has led him to the place he’s in while still admitting he deserves all of it and more.
What followed that reflection was the question of whether it would be possible for him to do anything to make up for what he’s done. I admit that if he were to, say, go to Guinea and help with the Ebola crisis, simply out of the goodness (ha) of his (non-existent) heart, he might be said to be making some sort of reparation. I don’t believe he’d be capable of doing something so selfless, but it would be a gesture – and putting himself at risk of infection would be a hell of a lot more “alpha” than anything any of these chucklefucks has ever done.
Which led to the most important question of all: are Doctors Without Borders manginas if they don’t hit on their patients? (Shhh, don’t tell me if any of them are *gasp* women, I don’t want to know.)
“In one of the links David posted to Roosh’s blog, the headline was “Neomasculinity Receives Mainstream Recognition.” The “mainstream” attention he’s crowing about was an InfoWars article.”
a man from info wars has made a video about neo masculinity