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Zoe Quinn's screenshots of 4chan's dirty tricks were just the appetizer. Here's the first course of the dinner, directly from the IRC log

Sorry, guys. I actually read the logs.
Sorry, guys. I actually read the logs.

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks!

A couple of days ago, embattled indie game designer Zoe Quinn embarrassed some of her biggest critics by posting screenshots she’d collected from a 4channer IRC channel, showing an assortment of hateful and duplicitous #GamerGaters literally conspiring to wreck her reputation and create the illusion of a vast grassroots uprising against alleged corruption in the gaming business.

Her critics, put on the defensive, tried their best to dismiss her screenshots as “cherry picked,” and a few even accused her of writing the very messages she screenshotted and posted. Oh, there might be a few bad apples in the bunch, some were willing to concede, but they were in the minority.

And then they pulled out what they thought was their trump card: the full chat log from the IRC channel #burgersandfries from when the Zoe Quinn “scandal” first erupted in mid-August up until September 6th. All anyone had to do, they suggested, was to read the log, and they would soon see that Quinn was presenting a distorted picture based on out-of-context, “cherry-picked” quotes.

Of course, reading this particular log is a bit easier said than done: it’s 3756 pages, in 10-point type, of chaotic overlapping IRC conversations.

This is a classic case of what’s come to be known as “doc dumping,” which Wikipedia helpfully defines as

the act of responding to an adversary’s request for information by presenting the adversary with a large quantity of data that is transferred in a manner that indicates unfriendliness, hostility, or a legal conflict between the transmitter and the receiver of the information. The shipment of dumped documents is unsorted, or contains a large quantity of information that is extraneous to the issue under inquiry … .

It’s clear that those posting links to the log are hoping that their opponents will take one look at this enormous, messy document and simply give up.

What they didn’t count on was anyone calling their bluff – and actually taking the time to read it. Because if they actually knew what this document contained, and thought anyone would actually read the thing, they would have kept the links to themselves.

Even a quick skim through the document demonstrates that Quinn’s screenshots are hardly cherry-picked; you can flip to literally any page in this long, long document and find evidence of egregious misogyny and outright malice. Look a little deeper and you can find discussions of doxxing and spamming and all sorts of other dirty tricks.

But I’ve given the document a lot more than a quick skim. So far I’ve spent probably ten hours going through it, collecting evidence of all the things that the defenders of 4chan insist isn’t there. Even after ten hours, I’ve only begun to scratch the surface, but I would like to present you with some of my results so far.

Today, let’s look at some of what the 4chan chatters had to say about Zoe Quinn herself.

On Twitter, the standard line of the #GamerGate partisans is that what they’re doing isn’t abut Quinn herself; its a protest against corruption and nepotism in the video game world. They also insist that they’re not motivated by misogyny, and that they are more concerned about the alleged ethical lapses of game journalists than they are with just who Zoe Quinn allegedly slept with.

When it comes to the 4channers in #burgersandfries, these claims are complete and utter bullshit. The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times.

Zoe’s name is in the official thread topic; chatters include it in their jokey nicknames. She’s the topic everyone always comes back to. She’s the reason everyone is there.

I decided to examine each occurrence of the name “Zoe” in order to see just what 4channers thought of her. After about 6 hours on this particular quest, I’ve only made it through roughly one-third of the mentions. But the results are not pretty.

The 4channers express their hatred and disgust towards her; they express their glee at the thought of ruining her career; they fantasize about her being raped and killed. They wonder if all the harassment will drive her to suicide, and only the thought of 4chan getting bad publicity convinces some of them that this isn’t something they should hope for.

They gleefully distribute nude pictures of her, posting links to online archives of them and emailing them directly both to Quinn’s supporters.

They dig up all sorts of information about her and her family and do their best to track down anyone and everyone with even the most tenuous links to her. One industrious researcher even manages to find a picture of Quinn at age 13; while acknowledging that it had no relevance whatsoever to issues of gaming ethics, she posts a link to it anyway.

And then there is the ongoing discussion of her vagina, described variously as “wide,” large enough to “fit 12 dicks at once, and “a festering cheese-filled vagina” that leaves “a trail of cunt slime” wherever she goes. Several 4channers speculate about its smell.

It’s not clear how exactly the size or shape or smell of Quinn’s vagina relates to the high-minded issues of gaming ethics that the #GamerGaters are said to be concerned with. But in the IRC log no one ever seems to call out any of those talking about Quinn in the crudest sexual terms.

Lets’ go to the logs directly. Everything that follows is cut and pasted directly from the full log, available here.

That said, IRC discussions can be chaotic and confusing, generally with more than one conversation going on at once, so in some cases, I have removed extraneous comments in order to make what is being said clearer. I’ve indicated all cuts with ellipses, and if you want to see what I’ve removed it should be trivial for you to locate the quotes in the full log by doing a search for an appropriate phrase or the relevant time and date stamp.

TRIGGER WARNING for discussion of rape, suicide and murder.

The log starts early on in the Zoe Quinn “scandal,” and numerous people in the chat talk about distributing her nude pictures to as many people as possible:

Aug 18 17.37.57 <SweetJBro> lol I’m tweeting Zoe’s nudes to some of her defenders.

A few days later, several other chatters talk about harassing Quinn by sending her own nude pictures to her:

Aug 21 23.20.35 there should be a massive campaign to tweet zoe her own nudes …
Aug 21 23.21.01 <Silver|2> They’ve been tweeted at her a lot

Here’s a chatter making clear that he’s mainly interested in seeing Quinn suffer:

Aug 18 20.10.06 i couldnt care less about vidya, i just want to see zoe receive her comeuppance

Here are some speculating about her state of mind:

Aug 19 01.34.01 if you were zoe right now what would you do
Aug 19 01.34.07 <FIVE-GUYS> get mugged
Aug 19 01.36.41 in all seriousness, i dont know
Aug 19 01.37.03 <FIVE-GUYS> ive never been in a situation like this
Aug 19 01.37.15 i’d probably kill myself tbh

Here are some others talking about the possibility of Quinn committing suicide, a possibility one chatter greets with a smiley:

Aug 19 02.28.30 okay, is zoe actually depressed?
Aug 19 02.28.35 i bet she is now
Aug 19 02.28.37 <mugg> diagnosed etc?
Aug 19 02.28.39 kek …
Aug 19 02.29.22 <Opus> I think she tried killing herself before
Aug 19 02.29.28 <kailasha> she should try that again :^)

“Kek,” by the way, is a nerdy version of “lol.”

Here one chatter suggests that focusing only on Quinn is a bad idea – because it will make 4channers look bad:

Aug 21 17.23.31 <sarahv> The problem is that making it about Zoe sleeping around amounts to a personal attack which, while funny and something she totally deserves, will hurt our chances of pushing the other point …
Aug 21 17.23.38 <rd0951> ./v should be focused on the implications of gaming journalism …
Aug 21 17.23.47 Because SJWs will cherry-pick the /b/ shit posting and say “See? It’s sexist MRAs!”

A few days later, this (relative) voice of moderation gleefully jokes about Quinn being choked to death during sex:

Aug 22 02.02.46 <CutestGAmerGorl> Okay guys, how much does Zoe like being choked
Aug 22 02.02.49 <CutestGAmerGorl> during sex? …
Aug 22 02.02.58 <sarahv> clearly not enough

Here one chatter openly fantasizes about driving Quinn to “an hero” — that is, kill — herself:

Aug 21 17.48.06 I’m debating whether or not we should just attack zoe …
Aug 21 17.48.29 <Opfag> push her… push her further….. further, until eventually she an heroes …
Aug 21 17.48.51 <OtherGentleman> … What makes you think she has the balls to kill herself?
Aug 21 17.48.57 I kind of want to just make her life irrepairably horrible …
Aug 21 17.49.16 <NASA_Agent> but what if she suicides …
Aug 21 17.49.24 <Opfag> Good.
Aug 21 17.49.29 Then we get to troll #Rememberzoe

One chatter warns that this strategy might … make 4chan look a tad misogynistic:

Aug 21 17.49.45 The more you try to attack her directly, the more she gets to play the victim card and make a bunch of friends who will support her because, since she has a vagina, any attack is misgony

Meanwhile, one of the other chatters suggests a rather creative division of labor amongst partisans of different 4chan message boards:

Aug 21 17.49.48 <rd0951> ./v should be in charge of the gaming journalism aspect of it. /pol should be in charge of the feminism aspect, and /b should be in charge of harassing her into killing herself

In the following excerpt, the IRC channel moderator asks one chatter why he is so obsessed with elaborate fantasies of Quinn dying in particularly gruesome ways:

Aug 21 18.26.37 <Cyberserker> You need a reason …
Aug 21 18.28.14 <Opfag> Well I don’t have a legitimate reason.
Aug 21 18.28.21 <Cyberserker> Nothing?
Aug 21 18.28.21 <Opfag> I just want to see her die horribly.
Aug 21 18.28.29 <Cyberserker> I’m talking about [your particular fantasies]
Aug 21 18.28.33 <Opfag> Oh.
Aug 21 18.28.39 <totality> sometimes you just want someone to get hurt
Aug 21 18.28.43 <Opfag> That, I have no idea
Aug 21 18.28.48 <totality> nothing wrong with that
Aug 21 18.28.51 all I know is I want zoe to die like that

While some fantasize about Quinn dying, others fill the chat with crude and often bizarre sexual remarks. All of the following comments came from a mere seven minutes in the chatroom:

Aug 22 02.21.54 i want to smell zoe quinn’s armpits …

Aug 22 02.25.42 you all would fuck the zoeholes
Aug 22 02.25.46 <JTG> given a chance too
Aug 22 02.25.47 <The_Remover> I am extremely aroused right now …

Aug 22 02.26.47 someone seduce zoe quinn
Aug 22 02.26.53 <vanu> follow the shekels
Aug 22 02.26.56 <The_Remover> I volunteer to take one for the team
Aug 22 02.26.57 <vanu> to her vagina …

Aug 22 02.28.51 meditate to nude pictures of zoe
Aug 22 02.28.53 <The_Remover> she gonna get raped

Of course, the 4channers are quick to profess disgust at the assorted nude pictures of Quinn they’re happily passing around to one another and the internet at large:

Aug 22 04.50.24 by the by, trigger warning on that mediafire archive. don’t download if you don’t want to see zoe naked …
Aug 22 21.17.13 <JCTheDenthog> Zoe’s mouth must be the strongest vacuum in nature to compensate for her face, body, and everything

Another suggests that his 4chan brethren download Quinn’s nudes if not for their own sexual gratification than for possible further blackmail later:

Aug 22 04.53.14 Eugh, why would you want to have her on your HDD? …
Aug 22 04.53.45 <The_Remover> because, a couple of months from now, when all this shit has died down, a raid may just be in order …
Aug 22 04.54.10 and i bet her dad doesn’t know she did porn …

Several days into the scandal, one chatter laments that there’s not much dirt left to dig on Quinn:

Aug 22 23.00.55 <Drinky_Kraw> I don’t think there’s anything left to harass Zoe over anyway. …
Aug 22 23.01.00 <Drinky_Kraw> The laundry is pretty much all aired

By the 23rd, some bored chatters compare notes on what they see as the relative sexual pros and cons of Quinn and game critic Anita Sarkeesian:

Aug 23 05.40.20 <Josh_> Zoe has a gross robotic hand, blue hair, and tats 4 days
Aug 23 05.40.29 <Josh_> if I was forced to put my dick in one of them
Aug 23 05.40.29 <Josh_> Anita
Aug 23 05.40.39 <GribFabdabgib> If I had to put my dick in them, yeah Anita
Aug 23 05.40.43 Anita is a skinny bitch whos all bones
Aug 23 05.40.48 <DarkHiero> True …

Aug 23 05.41.07 <DarkHiero> But at least it looks like she tries to take care of herself. …
Aug 23 05.41.15 <Headsmash_> From just looks alone, Id rather do Zoe than Anita. Fat bitches usually give better head anyway.
Aug 23 05.41.21 <DarkHiero> If I’m putting my dick in crazy, that matters.
Aug 23 05.42.00 <DTrig> Yeah but odds are good you get the clap/crabs from Zoe
Aug 23 05.42.14 <Headsmash_> Same could be said for Anita based on what we know
Aug 23 05.42.17 <Headsmash_> lol
Aug 23 05.42.32 * DarkHiero shrugs
Aug 23 05.42.34 Anita looks like she douches though
Aug 23 05.42.36 <DTrig> ANd cleans up
Aug 23 05.42.39 Zoe…. eh

And then it’s back to another discussion of suicide:

Aug 23 19.38.17 <Headsmash_> So does anyone think Zoe’s gonna off herself and become a catalyst for misogyny and hatred of women in video games and video game culture? …
Aug 23 19.38.47 if zoe offed herself she probably wouldn’t be anything but an ED article ..
Aug 23 19.38.55 <Araf> Headsmash_: She won’t, she has a too big ego …
Aug 23 19.39.13 <Headsmash_> I’m not too sure about that. I think she could.
Aug 23 19.39.16 <Araf> She would off herself if everyone ignored her and abandoned her, which is not the case. …
Aug 23 19.39.25 <Headsmash_> Depends on how much she gets stuck in the victimization complex. …
Aug 23 19.39.28 Really the 5guys scandal is the most famous Zoe has been …
Aug 23 19.39.43 <rd0952> yeah but she’s also been harassed night and day for a week

Other chatters indulge in sadistic fantasies:

Aug 24 12.24.22 who really wants to meet zoe quinn and be kind and comfort her in this time of crisis
Aug 24 12.24.43 <Cyberserker> Not if you comfort her with a knife-hug
Aug 24 12.24.45 <Cameralady> and slowly, through friendship and blossoming relationship, get her to repair her shitty ways and come clean and become a good person …

Aug 24 12.24.52 <Cameralady> and then
Aug 24 12.24.56 <Cameralady> once she’s reformed
Aug 24 12.24.58 <Cyberserker> knife-hug?
Aug 24 12.25.07 dump her in the most brutal, heartwrenching way possible

One chatter wants his fellow 4channers to declare victory and move on:

Aug 24 15.16.10 <PaperDinosaur> Also Zoe is no longer the target to be focused on
Aug 24 15.16.13 <Josh_> ^^
Aug 24 15.16.14 <sarahv> ^^^^^
Aug 24 15.16.18 It’s about the 5guys
Aug 24 15.16.21 <sarahv> It always has been
Aug 24 15.16.28 <Josh_> It’s more about the journos
Aug 24 15.16.33 <PaperDinosaur> She’s done, we’ve wrecked her in a professional manner. …
Aug 24 15.16.42 <sarahv> Unfortunately most of the people involved in this seem to be interested in destroying Zoe
Aug 24 15.16.46 stop digging up shit on zoe’s past
Aug 24 15.16.47 <PaperDinosaur> Now we have to wreck her shield, the people who tried to defend her

Soon afterwards the same guy who suggested that they move on from Quinn is back making jokes about her killing herself:

Aug 24 16.33.54 <PaperDinosaur> Guys, lets me fair to Zoe here
Aug 24 16.34.02 If every time I did something people sent me nues of her
Aug 24 16.34.07 <PaperDinosaur> I’d fucking kill myself

That same evening, Quinn’s ex-boyfriend – the fellow who started the whole thing going with a long series of blog entries documenting Quinn’s alleged infidelities – shows up on the channel to ask questions from the assembled mob.

Here is one of the questions he chose to answer:

Aug 25 00.02.21 <Cyberserker> Last question is from several people actually. I wanted to save it until the end due to how popular it was.
Aug 25 00.02.22 <Cyberserker> “Would you say Zoe was a “big girl” for you?” …

Aug 25 00.03.04 <Eron_G> she is heavier than people I usually date. …

Aug 25 00.03.12 <Cyberserker> Fair enough …

Aug 25 00.03.14 <ebola-chan> Did she not fly so good?

And a few that he didn’t:

Aug 25 00.04.13 What does her pusy smell like must answer …
Aug 25 00.07.11 Eron, when you went down on her, did you taste the other guys semen? If so, what did it taste like? …
Aug 25 00.10.40 Eron I don’t think you want your headphones back, it’s most likely splattered in Nathan’s semen and Robin’s Menstrual fluids. …
Aug 25 00.16.52 eron are you going to take up sucking dick now that you’ve been cucked by the 2/10 ugly jew

Later that morning the chatters are back to sharing their creepy and violent sexual fantasies:

Aug 25 00.19.28 <EronLovesZoe> I feel like I would probably fuck Zoe. But not out of a loving sense of sexual attraction. More of that “hate fuck” sense where you just want to assert your dominance as a male on her, a primal savagery. Then I’d probably have to sterilize myself to prevent the genome from spreading.
Aug 25 00.19.59 I’d slap a saddle on zoe and ride her throught the midwest
Aug 25 00.20.02 I wouldn’t even get that far EronLovesZoe, I’d just start raging and headbutting her and gnawing on her cheek …

Aug 25 00.20.10 that seabiscuit looking ass bith

And talking again about the pros and cons of trying to get Quinn to kill herself:

Aug 25 07.18.18 <Logan> Any chance we can get Zoe to commit suicide?
Aug 25 07.18.29 if we can get more daming evidence
Aug 25 07.18.29 I think the [doxxing info removed by DF] is a good shot.
Aug 25 07.18.33 <temet> like her fucking a train of lack dudes …
Aug 25 07.18.39 <PaperDinosaur> fuck off Logan
Aug 25 07.18.39 <temet> black
Aug 25 07.18.51 <Logan> Nah 21st century doing a train is so 90s. …
Aug 25 07.18.59 <PaperDinosaur> If she commits suicide we lose everything …
Aug 25 07.20.34 <PaperDinosaur> If you can’t see how driving Zoe to suicide would fuck this entire thing up then you’re a fucking idiot
Aug 25 07.20.41 Imagine the kotaku article …
Aug 25 07.20.48 <temet> PaperDinosaur is right
Aug 25 07.20.51 <temet> not the right PR play

Not. The. Right. PR. Play.

And on that note I am going to end this installment.

This is only a small fraction of the terrible stuff said about Quinn, in the small portion of the log I have managed to read through so far.

I may return with more installments. Honestly, I’m not sure how much more I can stomach.

But I will certainly write more about the 4channers’ discussions about doxxing and hacking Quinn and others; again, I have looked only at a portion of the logs so far, but there is already a great deal there.

EDIT: Just realized that WordPress ate a bunch of the names of the posters in the quotes here. (WordPress likes to eat angle brackets.) I’ll manually add the names back in when I get the chance.

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Macha
Macha
7 years ago

@Kimposter:
You did post a nice screed. Unfortunately, none of that invalidates the amount of abuse #gamergate people keep spewing out. Other people somewhere else being also mean does sadly not negate the stated intent of #gamergate misogynists to destroy a woman because she’s a woman. Or the fact that they are trying to shut down mostly women and GLBT focused things.

Again: If it’s about corruption, why are the AAA devs with the biggest hype machines ignored? Oh.

Right. Those are dudebro games about white guys, I forgot.

It’s really funny. This keeps happening. Dickwolves happened, gamers post thousands of death and rape threats, then cry about being called misogynists.
Anite Sarkeesian posts a little thing, thousands of death threats, gamers cry they aren’t misogynist. Zoe Quinn happens, rinse and repeat.

Weird how dudebrogamers like Kimposter only show up to whine when they get called misogynist, yet are completely silent when the death threat campaigns happen.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

Dickwolves

… wut?

… I like wolves. 🙁

Kav P
7 years ago

To: Gamer Gate people
Subject: Please write more comments

Dear Gamer Gate people,

I just wanted to thank you all personally for your comments on every comment-enabled post regarding “Gamer Gate” and request more in kind. With each comment you post, with each link of “irrefutable evidence” you post which is either one of the following:

– anecdotal evidence (anything to do with #notyourshield)

– a Youtube video (i.e. hour-long “rebuttal” videos)

– a complete misunderstanding of how language works (saying that Faraci’s analogy about respecting ISIS more than Gamer Gate people equates to him supporting ISIS )

– IRC logs of 4chan (https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/… )

– a dismissal of the seriousness of death and rape threats as a means to express disagreement with someone (e.g. saying that they are comparable to any of the posts on http://gamergateharrassment.tu… and hence the “other side” is just as bad )

– using Eran as a shield for the subsequent abuse that Quinn has faced (if Eran genuinely experienced abuse, why did he turn to 4chan and not a qualified counsellor for support? Does 4chan have that reputation? Why did he then do a Q & A session on 4chan where he answered questions about her body and sexuality?)

– libellous claims with no evidence (e.g. “Quinn co-ordinated a TFYC hacking attack!” “Sarkeesian faked those death/rape threats!”)

– document dumping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D… )

– smokescreens for the abuse faced by the victims (i.e. criticisms of Sarkeesian’s videos/methodology in a conversation about the harassment she and others like her have faced)

– claims that Gamer Gate has always been about journalistic integrity and not about women (there are numerous Gamer Gate-made posts which mention Quinn and the allegations against her when explaining to new Gamer Gaters the origin of the tag. To list a few:

+ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G

+ http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/

+ https://medium.com/@cainejw/a-… )

you give a mainstream audience irrefutable evidence of how you really don’t know what you’re talking about or what your “movement” is about. Not only that, but a lot of what you say contradicts what you do. Let me give you some examples:

– People criticize Quinn’s screencaps and posting of IRC chatlogs and video as being doctored and faked. They believe the same thing about posting screencaps of death and rape threats. Same people use screencaps with red circles and arrows as “irrefutable proof” of all kinds of things with no sense of irony.

– People claim that Sarkeesian’s videos are “cherry-picking” examples which are out of context. Same people use anecdotal evidence to “disprove” claims about #notyourshield, using photos of marginalised people as “irrefutable proof” that the majority of pro-Gamer Gate people are not heterosexual white males.

– People claim that their movement isn’t about sexism, but don’t bother self-policing to give that image credibility – when individuals within the movement say sexist or misogynistic things, rather than call out and publicly condemn those individuals, people say vague, non-committal damage control statements like “hey everyone, let’s keep it nice!”

So thank you, all of you. I encourage you to keep adding comments here because it only makes you look disorganised, harmless, and not a “force” to be taken seriously. I’ll see you on the other side, and by the way, as a woman and several kinds of minority, I’m 100% #notyourshield.

Have a nice day, and keep them coming! 🙂

Regards,
Kav. <3

P.S. I encourage all Gamer Gate people to critically analyse this very short animated video before commenting as I can't help but feel that in a round-about way it sums up your "movement's" icky origins:

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
7 years ago

Dickwolves

… wut?

Oh Jesus, don’t start THAT up again.

Bogdan
Bogdan
7 years ago

@Kav P, your post should be saved, because it pretty much refutes everything the gamergate people and the 4channers have said.

Macha
Macha
7 years ago

“Oh Jesus, don’t start THAT up again.”

I am incredibly sorry. I mean that. I just meant it as an example for this kind of stuff.

I shouldn’t have. Sorry…

Lisa
Lisa
7 years ago

Commenting here is a loss of time, I feel bad for those who have tried to argue here.

I’ve read some really reasoned comment from the gamer’s side, explaining they were against the corruption and not the feminism, but everyone here seems to spitt on everyone who is on the gamer’s side because they are represented by ZQ and with other people as “mysoginists” (like if some people from a group or persons are mysoginists, the whole group suddenly becomes mysoginist under the eye of you guys.). And that’s what makes people considering that ZQ is a hero look silly.
Also, you should consider the fact that most people don’t hate ZQ because of her infidelity or because she’s a feminist or whatever you want to believe, but most people hate her because she’s acting in an immensely egoistic way, manipulating people with irrelevant “evidences” and such, just so her reputation can still be maintained.

Before defending someone just because he/she has the same opinions as yours on some things, try to gather more informations from both sides and make a non emotion-persuaded, solid, and reasoned opinion.

Oh, and also, don’t ignore someone’s argument just because of his ethnicity or gender, that’s called racism or sexual discrimination. (which was at first, I believe, feminism’s enemy… before most of them ended up fighting men and not the actual inequality/discrimination, haha.)

cloudiah
7 years ago

@Lisa, Congratulations on writing a comment in which every assertion is false. That is quite an achievement!

maistrechat
7 years ago
Reply to  Lisa

You seem to have completely missed the numerous commenters above who have said the same thing, as well as the entire point of this site.

Good job!

Noddy
Noddy
7 years ago

Dear Kay P.

I totally agree that people are being unjustifiably horrible to Zoe Quinn, however I don’t think it’s fair to blanket everyone for things users of 4 chan say.
Most of them are children who need no attebtion payed to them.

Yes this opened up with Quinn story but for me and a lot of other people it’s aboit getting Games Journalism to fully disclose who they support financially and whether they’re being supported when releasing reviews.

The problem with the internet is there is no organisation. There are plenty of people on both sides who are in the wrong. People hide behind the anonymity and say cruel and nasty things without thinking about it too much as long as it’s really dark because there in no personal backlash for them. Not condoning it but it’s the way it is. Like Plato’s ring of Gyges.

With Sarkeesian, she is also being unfairly targeted and her views and claims are good for the industry. However it’s not the points she is making that are bad but she is using poor examples with poor research. Unfortunately any well thought out criticism is buried under ugly comments.

One last problem I personally have is that the term misogyny is being thrown around too lightly and used to blanket all gamers. A lot of people are saying ALL GAMERS HATE ALL WOMEN and although they may not mean that, that’s how it’s being construed and why a few people are getting upset.

Apologies for spelling and grammar mistakes as I’m posting from my phone.

Luzbelitx
7 years ago

I decided to see the entry on GamerGate in Encyclopedia Dramatica

Not bad, they have an action plan!! To call big game companies and their advertisers to help the SAVE the business. Or something:

If you start contacting the PR reps and explaining that the response from journalists at [Insert Site] means you will no longer be visiting it, and as long as the game company you are contacting continues to allow their games to be covered by [Insert Site], you wont be purchasing those titles either. the PR guys (who are paying close attention to all of this) WILL listen. Most of them are closer to your side of things then you think (according to this guy), and most of them are sick to death of Kotaku etc.

Remember, these people are friends. In other words, don’t email them to call them faggots.

I love that final note.

But it’s not as good as this “satirical ilustration”:
comment image

I then had to check Wikipedia and since the article was a bit poor I checked the talk page.

I found some stuff which sounds… oddly familiar, to say the least, from an editor who wanted to chime in on whether Anita Sarkeesian should be noted in the article:

Early on (around the end of August) someone threatened Anita over Twitter with rape and death threats, forcing her to move to a safe location. Although I condemn such an act, there are a lot of details that don’t add up;

The account that threatened her appears to be created solely to threaten her, as it was deleted shortly afterward,
From what some people say, whenever you report death threats to the FBI, the warn you not to tell about it publicly. Anita did just that,
The threats had perfect grammar and punctuation, and;
The threats as a whole happened shortly after Anita released her then-latest video.

The threats had perfect grammar and punctuation.

Fair enough, that would absolutely point to someone from outside the manosphere/gamosphere.

Unles….

Unless that’s exactly what they want us to believe..

Too much conspiranoia. Will take a nap.

maistrechat
7 years ago
Reply to  Noddy

Is there some copypasta site where all these trolls are getting these samey rants from?

cloudiah
7 years ago

Is there some copypasta site where all these trolls are getting these samey rants from?

It really seems that way, doesn’t it?

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

PROVE YOURSELVES OR GTFO. TRUST NO ONE.

Not even me, myself and I?? Aww…well, me does not trust myself and, frankly, I do not trust either of them, so there ya go…

Oh, and you are absolutely right about the trolls and trusting them at face value, clouduah. NONE of me trusts them!

Macha
Macha
7 years ago

“The threats had perfect grammar and punctuation, and;”
“From what some people say, whenever you report death threats to the FBI, the warn you not to tell about it publicly.”

So, the threats must be fake, despite many of them being visible and many different ones being made by different accounts, because one of them had proper spelling and someone once said that the FBI may say something sometimes.

Well, that sure schooled everyone!

gelar
gelar
7 years ago

From what some people say, whenever you report death threats to the FBI, the warn you not to tell about it publicly.

I think my eyes are one step closer to exploding in their sockets, in a last-ditch attempt to keep me from reading these things. Someone

anyone

save me from my eyes

samantha
samantha
7 years ago

He’s a terrible person who constantly takes to twitter to spew sexism, racism, homophobia and assorted right wing garbage.

I was sad to find out too since I’m a fan of Firefly and Angel.

NOW my day, and possibly my year, are ruined. Really??? Adam Baldwin??? Jayne??? I am SOOOO sad right now. And I was so upset, I googled him about sexism, racism and homophobia…because I just could NOT believe it all…but it is true. (Sniff…sob…)

Ah, well…(shuffling off to have my x-ray…)

seraph4377
7 years ago

I’ve read some really reasoned comment from the gamer’s side, explaining they were against the corruption and not the feminism

1) They’re liars. Really bad liars.

2) Doesn’t matter what they’re against. They’re part of a movement that uses rape threats, death threats, and harassment to achieve their goals. That makes them the bad guys here.

but everyone here seems to spitt on everyone who is on the gamer’s side because they are represented by ZQ and with other people as “mysoginists”

1) The word is spelled “misogynists”. Mis = hate. Gyn = woman. Hope that helps.

2) No, we spit (note the single “t”) on them because they’re part of a movement that uses rape threats, death threats, and harassment to achieve their goals.

3) We’ve read these things for ourselves, and they are misogynist.

(like if some people from a group or persons are mysoginists, the whole group suddenly becomes mysoginist under the eye of you guys.).

The few of you who aren’t participating in the rape threats, death threats and harassment are doing nothing to shut them down. In fact, you continue to argue that it’s all somehow justified by something Zoe Quinn has done. That makes you an accessory to the rape threats, death threats and harassment. Assuming you aren’t a participant.

Also, you should consider the fact that most people don’t hate ZQ because of her infidelity or because she’s a feminist or whatever you want to believe, but most people hate her because she’s acting in an immensely egoistic way, manipulating people with irrelevant “evidences” and such, just so her reputation can still be maintained.

No, we shouldn’t. Because none of that makes the rape threats, death threats, and harassment acceptable. The people who use those tactics are automatically the bad guys. Nothing Zoe Quinn has done or failed to do can justify rape threats, death threats, and harassment.

Before defending someone just because he/she has the same opinions as yours on some things, try to gather more informations from both sides and make a non emotion-persuaded, solid, and reasoned opinion.

I defend Zoe Quinn because she’s on the receiving end of rape threats, death threats and harassment. I have no need to gather more “informations” from the side that is sending them. They are the bad guys by default.

Oh, and also, don’t ignore someone’s argument just because of his ethnicity or gender, that’s called racism or sexual discrimination. (which was at first, I believe, feminism’s enemy… before most of them ended up fighting men and not the actual inequality/discrimination, haha.)

I ignore your argument because you’re defending the people who are pursuing a strategy of rape threats, death threats and harassment. That makes you the bad guy, and your argument worthless.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

How bizarre is it that these self proclaimed gamers are coming here to object to people talking about what is being done to Zoe instead of telling their fellow gamers to knock it off.
Srsly d00dz your credibility is history.

Kav P
7 years ago

Dear Noddy,

My point in my post is that you cannot expect sympathy for your cause when you align yourself with the likes of 4chan. I know you probably don’t align yourself with them on purpose, but the more you use the GamerGate tag that they popularised (Adam Baldwin coined the phrase but he did NOT start the movement) you will inevitably be linked to them, and to that end linked to the violent and hateful people who engaged in threatening and violent behaviour towards female games people.

If you want to have an honest discussion about games journalism, use a different tag. If you’re not going to use a different tag, people like you need to specifically call out and shame the individuals who are saying sexist and misogynist things IN YOUR NAME. Vague “be nice, people!” comments don’t cut it and is NOT self-policing. The more passive you are about the malicious people claiming that they speak for your “side” the less people will listen to you and what might very well be serious accusations that need to be addressed. YOU need to be the backlash. Gamer Gate people need to be the backlash. Otherwise you are one of them.

“With Sarkeesian…”
Did you read the part in my open letter where I mentioned that talking about Sarkeesian and her methodology IS NOT RELEVANT to ANY of this? Please reread and try again.

“the term misogyny is being thrown around too lightly and used to blanket all gamers”
Please quote me ANYwhere that says that “all gamers” are misogynists. I hear this claim a lot, but although I’ve been following these articles closely I have yet to see this. As a gamer myself, I have NEVER ONCE in this felt like the statements being made about the vitriol and abuse were talking about me.

“although they may not mean that, that’s how it’s being construed and why a few people are getting upset”
Isn’t the solution then for people to read, understand context and NOT get upset about something that doesn’t apply to them? Otherwise there’s really no label for it but “hysteria”.

I hope that addresses your concerns. Believe me. I WANT to believe in your cause. But you good people who actually care about journalistic integrity really need to separate yourselves from the poison in your community. You need to stop posting defensive statements on sites that are trying to fight against this poison, and control the people who are trying to represent you. Otherwise you are not helping your movement and Gamer Gate will forever be known as people putting up a smokescreen for cyberterrorism.

Regards,
KAV P. (I will forgive you misspelling my name because you were typing on your phone)

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

There are those among us who are aware that death threats are not irrelevant to our continuing our lives. Therefore we take them seriously. Srsly? Do these asshats hear what they are effing saying?

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Lisa: And Zoe Quinn has what to do with journalists being corrupt, exactly? If this is all about journalistic corruption, why does the whole focus continue to be on Zoe Quinn?

From Noddy’s post I got “not all gamergaters,” “both sides do it,” “it’s really about journalism,” “it’s not misogyny,” and “but Sarkeeeeeeesian!” Is that bingo?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
7 years ago

Before defending someone just because he/she has the same opinions as yours on some things, try to gather more informations from both sides and make a non emotion-persuaded, solid, and reasoned opinion.

When in the history of the world has this line ever actually meant “gather more evidence and come to a reasoned conclusion?” The only thing I’ve ever seen it mean is “Your position is obviously emotion-persuaded, whereas mine is factual, so if you don’t agree with me you must not be coming to a reasonable conclusion.”

Just say straight out that you don’t respect us as fellow thinking human beings, and drop the passive aggression. Also, don’t accuse your opponents of not having looked at all the arguments when you specifically state you’ve only read the arguments for your own side (no matter how “well reasoned” they were).

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

If the turdlets really are just a loud minority, the decent gamer majority should have no problem saying “Shut the fuck up you guys” and ending all of this.

But instead they’re just complaining to us, here.

POLICE YOUR OWN COMMUNITY, DOODZ.

Fukuda
Fukuda
7 years ago

(Very) occasional poster here. I just want to post to thank you David and everyone else here for your work. And show my support for Quinn and Sarkeesian.

I was a gamer and content creator for several years and I am quite ashamed. Ashamed not only of the actions of the harassers, but especially of the lack of vocal rejection by most of the community.

There is no excuse. Misoginy and sexism, the racism of blackface twitter “warriors” pretending to be PoC, the harassment… None of it deserve any excuse. No bullshit false equivalence arguments or grand anti-corruption statements. Reject it.

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