I wish I knew how to quit you, Roosh Valizadeh. It’s been several years since Mr. V took shrooms, found God, abandoned his career as a pickup artist, and took up a new life as a religious fanatic. But under it all he’s still the same old Roosh — a raging misogynist and conspiracy theorist who still somehow thinks we all need to hear his thoughts on the world and all the dirty filthy sinners in it.
His latest crusade? He wants his followers to stop hugging women and putting themselves at a real risk of going to h. e. double-hockey sticks.
Unless you’re hugging your grandma — she’s safe.
Roosh begins his blog-post-cum-anti-hug-manifesto with this warning:
It is extremely unsafe to hug a pretty woman. I expect most men to scoff at this notion and ignore it, but a hug with someone you’re attracted to is a form of intimacy, and intimacy before marriage turns on the treadmill of lust and sets the speed to a brisk jog before steadily ramping up to a sprint.
Really not the best metaphor there Roosh but whatever.
One “innocent” hug can begin a course of heavy temptation that entices you into sin and blocks your ability to properly evaluate a woman for marriage.
It blocks your abililty to what? How?
But before he answers these questions he puts in a good word for the aunties and grandmas of the world.
There is nothing wrong with a platonic hug, the form of which you’d give to an aunt or grandmother. It features minimal contact between bodies, only the shoulders and upper chest around the collarbones, and is often completed with a comforting pat on the back.
Why does Roosh write like an alien from planet Zorg 12 trying to explain humans to his fellow lizard people?
An intimate hug, however, is simply a variant of horizontal bedroom embrace.
I think you might be doing sex wrong if you think a hug is the same as a fuck.
Your body and her body are so firmly pressed against each other that you can feel the cushion of her chest and the fat and muscle of her thighs.
The fat and muscle, huh? Don’t tell me you’re aiming to dissect this poor woman.
In such an embrace, you can perceive the exact proportions of her feminine curves as if you measured them with a ruler.
Please don’t take this as an invitation to measure your girlfriend’s “feminine curves” with a ruler. That may fly on planet Zorg 12, buddy, but here it’s considered quite rude.
With this description alone, I’ve entered into the realm of the pornographic …
You think that talking about the “fat and muscle” of a woman’s legs is pornographic? Dude, what kind of porn are you watching, anyway?
… not from my imagination but from the reality of an intimate hug, the type of which fallen men innately crave with women whose bodies they incessantly daydream about.
She’s got what fallen men crave!
The fact that she’s wearing clothes matters little because is the mind not capable of removing clothes?
I usually just use my hands and sometimes teeth.
Unfortunately, many women already exist in a state of semi-nudeness, especially during the summer, so even for the dull-witted man, imagination is not required.
Such a tragedy, having to look at women in shorts.
When you add the emission of feminine scent from her neck and hair, whether pheromonal or chemical, your slavery to her body is sealed.
You’er talking like an alien again, Roosh-boy.
This one “innocent” hug will amplify your passions to such an extent that lustful thoughts, a sin itself, become only the beginning of your fall.
Damn, that has got to be one powerful hug!
I’ve lost count of how many Orthodox couples I’ve seen using secular behavior in their courtships. They drink alcohol together. They give each other googly eyes. They hold hands. They hug incessantly. They use secular vocabulary like “boyfriend,” “girlfriend”, and “dating.” They position themselves so close while seated that they can feel the heat of each other’s breath.
These damned Orthodox and their secular ways. Roosh wants us to know he’s past all that.
They even kiss! They do all this and say they are in “Christian courtship”! They are dating like any secular couple dates, but moving slowly enough so that they can deceive themselves that they are courting when in reality they are in a veiled seduction.
Dude, you’re starting to sound more than a little like Elliot Rodger, the Incel terrorist who used to stalk happy looking couples so he could throw his coffee at them.
Many couples will succumb to mortal sins if they think all that I have listed is permissible, and the very first step of physical intimacy is the hug. If their courtship happens to end …
He means, if it doesn’t result in marriage.
… they have caused so much real damage to their souls with the attachment that came from their rationalized sexual foreplay that they will have to repent for months before considering another try, all because they started with the wrong notion of what a hug can do.
The little hug that could.
Before I converted to Orthodoxy, I was in a pre-courtship with a woman (the relationship has since ended). I could see that she liked me and craved a bit more affection than merely talking to her as if I were conducting a live stream.
Pre-courtship? What on earth is that, alien boy? Did she even know you were pre-courting her, or did she just think you were some weirdo who liked to bring along a camera and a ring light to every date.
As a consolation for her needs, I decided to give her a hug. So passionate was that hug that I remember it more vividly than many of the most vile sexual sins of my past.
I’m sure many of the women Roosh, er, courted as a pickup artist have also been trying desperately to erase the memories of their vile encounters with Roosh from their memories. And I’m not even kidding.
It took place at night, outside the house she lived with her parents.
Are you dating high school girls, dude?
If they were watching, they would have seen nothing that offended the virtue of their daughter. It was just a hug, after all, but through that hug I gained a detailed blueprint of her body and the signature of her pleasing feminine aroma, and because of that I had to use all my willpower and faith to fight the temptation to keep from hugging her repeatedly and doing just a “little” more.
What, like fornicating on the doorstep while her parents slept inside?
Thankfully, God was with me, and I did not fall in the flesh, but I learned my lesson: if I am considering a woman to be my wife, I will not hug her outside of the awkward platonic hug, hunched over so that only the tips of my shoulders touch her body, whose shape and softness will remain unknown to me until our wedding night …
Yeah, dude, I hate to break it to you, but that wedding night isn’t going to happen any time soon if ever.
… and if that’s too extreme for her, there is a long line of men who will be happy to hug and hug and hug her and serve the physical needs of her body.
Yeah, I think they’ll move on from all that hugging fairly quickly. because they’re not as obsessed with hugging as you are.
It’s also not fair to my future wife …
Your “future wife,” you say? Now you’re talking like Tommy Wiseau.
… that I so vividly remember the hug with that woman, and it surely isn’t fair to me if my future wife remembers hugs and much more that she had with other men.
Yeah, dude, you’re going to be found wanting even if she never kissed another man. She’ll compare you to a pile of shit she once stepped in and it’ll be the shit she’ll see most favorably.
Not hugging a woman is the best way you can honor your future wife.
Put that on a t-shirt, baby. I’ll buy it.
Are you so foolish to think that you are strong enough to willingly dance with Satan and walk away unscathed? With such noxious pride, it’s a miracle you’ve even made it this far in my article.
Dude, your blog is like an addiction; I’m drawn to it again and again, against my better judgement. Sort of like those people who obsessively eat styrofoam and whatnot.
Another reason not to hug is that it becomes impossible to properly evaluate and vet a woman for marriage when you are in a state of even mild passion, and if you’re trying to evaluate a woman you’re having sex with—forget it!
Uh, having sex with a potential wife or husband is considered part of the, er, vetting process these days. Most people don’t want to marry someone they have no sexual chemistry with.
You won’t ever be able to judge a woman you’re sleeping with because your flesh is firmly in the driver’s seat …
Hey, that’s one of my all -time favorite songs.
… guided by Satan, and all you can think about is when your pee-pee, your false god, can use her body as an instrument of your selfish pleasure.
Your … “pee-pee?” Is it a mortal sin to use the word “dick” or “penis” or “baloney pony?”
The same goes with kissing, hand holding, and hugs. While they are not sex, you have an imagination, don’t you?
I know you do. You must spend your life just quivering with lust.
The physical touching paints an immediate and bright picture of her naked body and what sex will be like, completely damaging your ability to evaluate her as a wife.
I’m pretty sure you can’t tell what sex with a person would be like by giving them a hug.
The bad news is that even if you refrain from all physical affection during courtship, and she’s beautiful, you still will not be able to judge her properly. Her visage alone is tempting to your dumb flesh, and it’s not hard to construct a rudimentary sketch of her body from incidental touches, but at least in this case you have a chance at proper discernment.
Either that or you could pluck out your eyes so you won’t see her tempting, er, visage. Isn’t that in the Bible somewhere?
For fleeting moments, you can transcend her body and contemplate if she would be a suitable wife for you. However, if you’re intimate, even with hugs alone, it’s close to hopeless!
Dude, I’m pretty sure that for most guys older than teenagers a hug (or a glance at a smokin’ hot visage) isn’t enough to give them a boner for the rest of the day. Maybe you should try just wanking it from time to time. Might calm down your lust a bit, get it out of your system.
If you look at the history of courtship, men never had to make a decision to marry a woman wholly on their own (and neither did women), but involved parents, other family members, and the Church to guide that decision for them. The fact that you are deciding yourself is already dangerous, and if you add physical intimacy, you might as well be gambling in a Las Vegas casino, hoping for a lucky spin of the roulette wheel.
And getting your bride picked out for you isn’t a gamble?
If I am in a courtship with a woman, I will not give her a full-body hug. I will not learn about the contours of her body, I will never get a whiff of her glandular scent …
Jesus Christ, man, you are a fucking space alien.
I will be blind to her flesh and ability to please my flesh. If she needs a platonic hug, I will do so in such an autistic manner that the last thing on our minds will be sex.
I would actually like to see you do this. Can you set up a livestream?
I must do this, not only to obey the commandments of Christ by blocking potential avenues of temptation, not only because I respect her and do not want her to fall, but because I want to be able to see through her body and into her soul.
Come on, dude, you know you’ll take a few moments to scrutinize her tits before you get to her soul.
Does she understand what’s at stake with our decision to marry? Is she ready to follow me into Paradise?
Follow you into paradise!? Dude, are you secretly putting together some sort of death cult?
Is her soul compatible with my soul? I’ll have a reasonable chance of answering these questions if I refrain from all physical contact. Otherwise, I might as well be back in the nightclubs, checking out women with my eyes to see which specimen pleases me the most.
Roosh is almost done writing up his report on human sexuality for his lizard bosses on planet Zorg 12.
That I refuse. The next woman I hug will be my wife, and if I don’t get married, I shall never hug a woman again.
Oh, please, Lord, make the last part of that last sentence come true!
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What does Doosh imagine ‘autistic hugging’ to be? Because the last hug I got from anyone was from an autistic woman friend (I’m also Autistic but non-binary). We always ask first – consent is important – then hug fiercely for a few seconds. Then step away.
I hug only a limited number of people, consent is always involved and often I have to initiate the hug so that the other person knows I’m comfortable. It’s taken at least ten years for me to hug my step-mum, but now I do I hold her as close and as fiercely as I do my mumsy. I want to cry when I hug people, because I’m overwhelmed by love for them. Which is why I don’t hug often. It’s incredibly intimate and intimidating, but not for the reasons Dim-wit Doosh thinks.
With most people, however I just make it clear that I don’t hug, which can confuse people but it tends to leads to less distress and offends the other person less than me running away and hiding behind someone else. Or a tree. Depending on where I am and who I’m with.
Does the hug thing work differently if the woman’s *not* pretty? Is she safe to hug if she’s unattractive by his standards? What if she’s wearing a bulletproof vest or body cast so there’s nothing soft about her, and he’s got nose plugs in so he can’t whiff her glands? (Also, you can’t measure curves with a ruler. Gotta have a tape measure or something.)
I swear he’s thinking about sex and women’s bodies now than when he was a PUA.
He really needs to go full Skoptsy so all this temptation goes away. Failing that, let’s hope his last sentence happens.
I used Google to find this song and may thus be falling into a black hole. Take it away, Andrews Sisters!
I have vague recollections of some kid in some movie going “Oh no, the cheek pinchers!” when a bunch of older female relatives arrived for Christmas. I don’t think it was the Griswold one … maybe the “you’ll shoot your eye out” one?
I did not know the Duggars were involved. Yuck. I think of this kind of hug as a Covid hug. I have social anxiety about hugs from people I don’t know well, so I’m a big fan of this type of hug. Also elbow bumps.
Late to the thread, here’s some random thoughts I wanted to get out.
Like Roosh apparently does, I feel very alien to the idea of enjoying platonic hugs. Arguably, my culture teaches people and especially men to live very touch-deprived lives outside of a romantic relationship. I very rarely hug friends or relatives, and then I feel it’s supposed to be casual like a handshake. I only hug people when it seems socially expedient, because it’s not something I do for pleasure.
I can be very sensual when I hug and cuddle myself in private. To me, the idea of sensual hugging feels inherently sexual, or at least intimate. It feels starkly different from how I’ve learned to hug other people as an adult.
I think the stupid quip about “autistic hugging” refers to the stereotype that socially awkward people err on the side of keeping their hugs overly casual, because they have difficulty judging how intimate it’s appropriate to be in a given situation. I do recognize myself in this stereotype. For the same reason I almost never offer anyone a hug, but rather just accept if someone gestures a hug.
Presumably, Roosh still sneeringly thinks all of this in terms of pick-up artistry, where one major “self-development” goal is getting over the worry that your approach of a woman might be breaking some social or personal boundaries, making her possibly uncomfortable. At the more advanced level of pick-up artistry, you’d learn to make women uncomfortable deliberately and tactically, as a tool for some purpose or another.
I almost can’t believe that such a vile narcissistic creature exists after reading your articles. Really – he went from pick-up and teaching men how to rape to this cloying purity drivel? The only one I feel sorry for is all the women he has hurt, his common denominator seems to be a fanatical need to control women and to see them as either evil plotting malicious geniuses who want to destroy all men or lesser, dumb, irrational versions of men only fit for cooking and cleaning.
His brain must have been permanently damaged by his noxious worldviews, but what is worse is that he continues to rally people and influence others to follow his worldview, despite obvious evidence that his judgment must be sorely compromised since he keeps swinging from one extreme to another with no perception of reality. The best thing he could do is to shut up permanently – that at least would stop more hate from spreading.