By David Futrelle
A couple of months back, you may recall, the infamous pickup artist and ironic rape legalization proponent Roosh V announced that he had taken “the God pill,” embracing Jesus and Orthodox Christianity, after getting really, really high on mushrooms. (No, really.)
Turns out he was serious, and now he’s making efforts to bring his career, such as it is, in line with his new beliefs.
To some extent, he’s been preparing for this for years. He long ago gave up his quest for endless one-night stands and has instead been, at least theoretically, looking for a wife. Meanwhile, he had more or less abandoned pickup advice in favor of fulminating endlessly about the alleged cultural “decadence” of the Western world on his blog and on his now-shuttered site Return of Kings.
But now he’s actually stopped selling his “Bang” guidebooks, which many saw as little more than country-specific date=rape how-to manual.
And yesterday he took the radical — for him — step of banning talk of “fornication or pre-marital sexual activity” from his web forums, as well as all “pornographic or vulgar language.”
“Due to my recent turn to faith, my sense of morality is becoming based on the Bible,” he wrote in a forum post explaining the new rules.
I’ve stopped a lot of behaviors that I’ve used to do and am in the process of making other changes. I’ve also realized that the majority of my published materials and online platforms lead men into sin or enable them to partake in sin.
No, he hasn’t come to the realization that going ahead and “banging” a woman after she’s literally told you “no” thirty times is not what most people would consider consensual sex. He just thinks that if you do this without getting married first Jesus will be mad at you.
In any case, he’s decided to fight sin with two new rules for his forum, both of which will go into effect at the start of June.
1 .You can no longer discuss fornication or pre-marital sexual activity
Things you can discuss:
-Meeting women with the intention of entering a relationship with them
-Going on dates
-How to enter relationships
-Using technology to meet women
-How to maintain relationships
-Sexual activity while married
Things you can no longer discuss:
-Meeting women with the intention of fornicating with them
-How to bang
-Physical intimacy with women you’re not married to beyond the act of kissing
-Maintaining relationships with multiple women (i.e. spinning plates)
-Cheating on significant others (adultery)
-Using technology to fornicate
-Discussion of travel destinations which are best for fornication
-Stories of sexual activity while not married
-Promoting masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, etc.
It’s all just a tad ironic, given that most of the things he’s banned people from talking about are exactly the things he wrote about and talked about for a decade in the self-published books, the blog posts, the public talks and the YouTube videos that put him in the spotlight and put money in his bank account.
Rule 2 is only slightly less sweeping:
2. You can no longer use pornographic or vulgar language
-Refrain from using terms like “I fucked her” or “I want to fuck her.” Do not describe sexual encounters or situations that are beyond the act of kissing unless you are married.
-Refrain from using profanity if a cleaner word would suffice.
Roosh is well aware that these new rules, and his new approach generally, could alienate a good chunk of his audience.
I know that I may lose some of you because of these rules, but I can no longer help men lead a life of sin, because doing so is weighing on my conscious. [sic]
I created this forum in 2008 to help men fornicate, so I don’t know if it’s possible to “retrofit” it for another purpose, but it’s worth a try.
So far, it doesn’t look like Roosh’s fans are exactly thrilled with the new direction. While some of his forum regulars are rallying around him, others are pretty far from fucking ok with it, a point they have reiterated in literally hundreds of comments they’ve posted in response to his announcement.
“Is this a hoax?” asked one commenter. (It sure doesn’t seem to be.)
“Your house, your rules,” wrote another. “But this makes Rooshforum kind of like non-alcoholic beer. Or a sex-free brothel.”
Still another commenter offered his own awkward metaphor.
As much as I love roosh, this is the male equivalent of a woman riding the cock carousel and then turning into a nun. censoring everything because she feels her new outlook is the best.
Others were a bit harsher:
I think Roosh has gone off the deep end with this religious BS. Religion once again has destroyed something good in this world (this forum). I’m out. In the end we all will die, rot and maggots will consume us. Enjoy church fellas. Feel free to ban my account.
I can’t say I’m convinced that Roosh is going to be a huge success in his new career as a sort of freelance fundamentalist fulminator.
But as radical as his new direction might seem at first glance, the New Roosh has a lot in common with the Old Roosh. Both versions of Roosh are misogynists through and through.
As a pickup artist, Roosh made clear that he had no respect for the opinions — or the objections — of the women he pursued. He encouraged men to lie and manipulate — and even to hide in bushes — in order to more effectively prey on women, and in one of his “field reports” he talked about using physical force to restrain one of his “conquests” when she withdrew consent during sex. His biggest complaint as a pickup artist in recent years was that women were getting wise to his PUA bullshit — getting harder to trick, and harder to control.
Roosh’s new “morality” is all about controlling women. Even as a pickup artist, he resented the fact that the women he spent his life pursuing were “sluts” with sex lives of their own; now he rails against society for “allowing” women to have this kind of sexual agency, hoping to go back to a world in which men like him are guaranteed young, virginal, “traditional” wives.
So I guess the question now is whether or not Roosh’s fans will appreciate his continuing misogyny — not to mention his homophobia, his anti-Semitism and his other assorted alt-rightish bigotries — more than they’ll miss his always rather rudimentary “dating” advice. We’ll see. However things play out, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be both weird and ugly.
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(also if the joke was ‘he’s a homophobe so that means he’s in the closet LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL GET IT???????’
We get it. It isn’t funny, it’s tired. He’s a shitty human being who happens to be the straights problem. They get to deal with him, don’t push him into the GSRM community.)
We get this joke a lot. *Resets counter to ‘0 days since i had to write this post’.
And going off of what Rhuu said,
it’s really sad that some lgbt people hate themselves so much or are afraid of their own gender or sexuality so much that it turns to hate. Why does it do that? because the world is shitty to lgbt people. When you see how horrible the world treats Lgbt people that it makes you afraid to be one of them, it’s tragic, not a joke. To make a joke that some Lgbt people hate themselves so much that it makes them want to hide who they are, because of fear of having to deal with the shitty homophobic world is a low, horrible thing to do. And you should be ashamed of yourself if you make those jokes.
If this was a sincere “come to Jesus” moment, I’d be more convinced if he deleted his blog, twitter, atoned, and let his future deeds speak for themselves. This is a guy who has always hated women apart from a possible object for rape, sexual release, and overall misogyny.
I too get the sense that, inasmuch as Roosh has actually found Jesus, he’s some kind of free-spirited* Christian without commitment to any established tradition. He may call himself an Armenian Orthodox, because of a family connection, but he’s building his faith mostly from other sources.
*Insert joke about “loose canon” – hat tip to TVTropes.
@Rhuu – apparently an illiteratti
I can’t speak for @TerriThePilot, but I interpreted their comment as making fun of the way Roosh’s followers might react to the tweet instead of making fun of gay people.
Most people would view that tweet and see an entitled straight man harassing a woman, but Roosh’s fans are so homophobic and seeped in toxic masculinity that the biggest issue they might have with that tweet is that Roosh tweeted a video showing another man’s penis. Manospherians are so scared about about coming across as anything other than macho and totally straight that they set stupid rules for themselves about what is ‘gay’ or not. Letting a lady put a finger up your butt during mutually consensual sex? Dude, you’re totally gay. Wiping your own ass after you shit? Gay. Pointing out Roosh’s ‘Bang’ books advocate date rape and harassing women? Well, you’re just a beta-cuck-White-Knight and you’re probably gay too.
tdlr: I interpreted the comment as pointing out the irony that Roosh’s followers see no problem with sexually harassing women, but are paranoid and hyper-vigilant about doing anything that might make them come across as ‘gay.’
i’ve been thinking about how to reply to @ChunkySpaghettiSauce, and i’m… hm.
I stand by my interpretation.
Without either the name recognition so I know they aren’t a troll or any kind of obvious sarcasm tag, I think it is up for interpretation how to read this.
North American culture has this association between queer people and how they inherintley commit sexual harassment, and i will push back on that. As much as I can.
If that wasn’t @TerriThePilot’s intention, then i’m sorry if they felt bad because of my comment, but hopefully they will choose to not make the same joke next time, or make it obvious they aren’t falling afoul of Poe’s Law.
We attract both people trying to pretend to be feminist (or an ally) before sliding in some very not-good comments.
We also get people who are really excited to explore feministing that they sometimes say things that are just Not Good.
If i recognise the ‘nym, i will be a bit more forgiving, and explain.
A quick google only turned up one comment by this ‘nym, so i didn’t extend that courtesy.
(it’s an interesting thing with in group vs.
out group, but honestly i only have so much energy…)
Anyway. @TerriThePilot can explain themselves or not, it was important to me to push back on the implications.
If they are here in good faith, i hope they continue to read and participate. Just, uh, without the same kind of joke.
And may that continue to be the case!
@Rhuu – apparently an illeratti
I understand your position and why you’d want to error the side of refuting negative comments about the LGBTQ+ community since we do get trolls and people who think it’s okay to make someone being gay the punchline of a joke. I’m also not saying the way you interpreted their comment is wrong and the way I interpreted it is right. I don’t recognize the poster either, so I can’t vouch for their credibility. I just wanted to mention that I happened to interpret @TerriThePilots’s comment in a different way.
If they did intend their comment to make fun of Roosh for ‘being in the closet’, than I agree it’s problematic because that implies:
1. Roosh posting a video of a man masturbating to sexually harass a woman means he’s gay and not just an asshat
2. Since Roosh hates gay people, he hates himself, and that’s apparently supposed to be funny
Most manospherians are cis, straight dudes. For the very small minority who are queer, it probably means they grew up so indoctrinated with hatred they could never accept themselves, or that they were so afraid of the prejudice they would face for being queer that they turned to self-hatred to deny who they are. That’s not funny. It’s sad.
Roosh still has those dead sharklike eyes. I actually looked properly at that top photo by accident – omg, stuff of nightmares!
If the commentor that wrote “Your house, your rules” about Roosh’s changes actually applied that attitude to women and their bodies, he’d have much better experiences with the women in his life. It would get him way farther ahead than anything Roosh has ever said.
I don’t see any favorable way to interpret “uploaded video of guy masturbating to unaware woman = gay porn” and I don’t understand why you leep defending it.
Rather than characterize him as a “PUA”, he’s in reality, an RA (Rape Artist) and closeted-incel (who travels to developing countries to prey upon economically desperate women).
What’s scary or continuing to be scary is he’s leading his red pill-turned-black pill acolytes from game to outright hatred of women to now, the mainstreaming of Nazism (the “alt-reich”) and racism.
”misogyny, tracked and mocked”.
to this day, I haven’t seen one of you coming up with a robust argument, other than your immature and petty trash. Trash that any idiots can say.
”We hunted the mammouths”
Yep. Everyone knows that. Where did you learn that, at Oxford?