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“Red Pill” director Cassie Jaye hits a new low with her appearance on a white supremacist podcast

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Odd couple: Matt Forney and Cassie Jaye

Filmmaker Cassie Jaye seems to have developed a weird affinity for bigots.

First, she cozied up to some of the most hateful figures in the Men’s Rights movement during the filming of her documentary The Red Pill.

Then, when her funding for the film ran out, she happily accepted financial assistance not only from the actual subjects of the film but also from a motley assortment of far-right ideologues — among them a notorious quasi-journalist who was famously tossed off of Twitter after his fans barraged Ghostbusters star Leslie Jones with racist abuse, and a delusional Trump superfan who literally believes he gave Hillary Clinton the flu with his mind. (After a big donation to Jaye, he got himself an associate producer credit on her film.)

Now she’s trying her best to drum up interest in her film, which has barely drawn any notice at all outside the overlapping spheres of alt-right lady haters and MRAs since it premiered at a New York theater earlier this month.

While The Red Pill got a glowing, if rambling, “review” from new pal/volunteer fundraiser Milo Yiannopoulos at Breitbart, and a somewhat less-enthusiastic thumbs-up from Cathy Young at the right-wing internet tabloid Heat Street, the two real film reviewers who’ve bothered to give it a look have panned it.

Katie Walsh at the Los Angeles Times took issue with the film’s “uncritical, lopsided” argument, complaining that Jaye “twists herself in knots to justify the movement’s misogynist rhetoric.” The Village Voice’s Alan Scherstuhl dismissed Jaye as an inept “propagandist” and warned potential viewers that, as the headline to his piece put it, “You Can’t Unsee ‘The Red Pill,’ the Documentary About a Filmmaker Who Learns to Love MRAs.” (His review of what he described as an “agonizing” film caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the MRA crowd.)

With little hope of attracting positive attention from film critics, and apparently desperate for any publicity she could get, Jaye agreed to appear on the podcast of an internet-famous bigot who has been described by one critic, not without reason, as “THE MOST WARPED USELESS PEICE OF SH*T THAT I HAVE EVER HAD THE DISPLEASURE TO ENCOUNTER [on the] INTERNET OR ELSEWHERE.”

I am talking, of course, about the rape-excusing, abuse-encouraginglady-hating, gay-baiting white supremacist Matt Forney — he’s the one on the left in the photo below.

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/787198238575120384

She didn’t just give Forney a couple of minutes of her time; she sat down with him for roughly three-quarters of an hour for his podcast “This Alt-Right Life.” It’s a singularly unedifying discussion. At one point she mentions that she used to get into arguments with her boyfriend every month about nothing, something she now jokingly blames not on PMS but on her (former) feminism.

Badump-tsssh!

She also expressed sympathy when Forney mentioned that he himself had been the victim of a “false” rape accusation. (Imagine that, the author of a blog post titled “Why Girls Rarely Mean No When They Say No” being accused of rape!)

Not that long ago, Jaye was by all appearances a staunch opponent of pretty much everything Forney and his alt-right pals stand for.

In 2012, she released a documentary titled “The Right to Love,” which, according to its description on IMDb, is the portrait of a “Californian married gay couple and their two adopted children,” fighting against the forces of “discrimination, ignorance and hate” who would deny them their right to marry and raise children.

Now she’s appearing on the podcast of a guy who is a virtual embodiment of this ignorance and hate.

It’s not as if evidence of Forney’s despicable views is hard to find, and not just in the WHTM archives. The name of his podcast contains the phrase “alt-right.” In the list of “popular posts” highlighted in the sidebar of his blog one finds such lovely titles as “How to Crush a Girl’s Self-Esteem” and “Why Fat Girls Don’t Deserve to Be Loved.” (Neither title is meant ironically.)

And then there is the endless stream of racist, misogynist and homophobic abuse that is his Twitter account. Some highlights from the last several days:

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/790064680907792386

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/790364983171354625

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/790367816360857601

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/790050589598162944

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/789976518596362240

https://twitter.com/basedmattforney/status/789633067791122432

That last tweet — a reference to Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet’s practice of murdering people by throwing them from helicopters — is technically a death threat, aimed at a National Review writer who has gotten many such threats from Forney’s colleagues in the alt-right, including photoshopped images of his 7-year-old daughter being gassed in a Nazi death camp.

Are these really the sorts of people Jaye wants to align herself with?

In his “review” of The Red Pill, Milo claimed, without evidence, that a virtual army of feminists was “scrambling to stop Cassie Jaye” and her film. In fact, feminists have mostly ignored The Red Pill. And the person who has done the most to damage Jaye’s credibility is, well, Jaye herself.

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Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
5 years ago

@ Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Now that you mention it, it is starting to sound a bit familiar. If Susan is Miggy, I might as well pull up Microsoft Word and figure out how to make a Canto out of this. You know just something to ligthen the mood, speaking of which my chinese tea is way overdue for a sipping. Oh Oolong, grant me peace of mind.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

That_Susan | October 27, 2016 at 10:53 pm
@weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo: “It’s a men’s rights issue that men have a safe space to say misogynistic things about women?”

That wasn’t what I said, but apparently that’s what you read into my comment about men sometimes wanting to talk with each other without worrying about a woman finding something they say offensive.

Then do tell us, Susan, what would a woman find offensive that isn’t misogynistic? Racism? Homophobia? Other flavors of bigotry?

Or am I, a feminine-presenting person, supposed to be so fucking dainty that I swoon with the vapors because I hear an off-color joke or a bit of “man talk”?

Why can’t guys talk like that at home? Or in their private lives? Or only when they’re around other like-minded individuals? (like they already do)

Why do they need a “safe space” to make “offensive” comments, Susan? And why are you comparing that idea to women needing safe spaces where they won’t be fucking harassed?

You’re comparing apples to airplanes here. Neither of these things are comparable.

One is “I want to have the right to study/ride the train/etc without being harassed” and the other is “I want to be able to say nasty things without people telling me that I’m a bad person for saying them!”

What I’m getting from some of the comments here is that a woman’s desire for a space just for women should be taken at face value, but a man’s desire for a space just for men should be highly-suspect: He must be up to no good. Because women know how to make good use of their spaces, but men don’t.

Women need spaces FOR PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT.

How many fucking times do I have to repeat myself? How many times do other people have to say it to you before it sinks in, Susan?

WOMEN NEED SAFE SPACES TO BE PROTECTED FROM HARASSMENT BY MEN.

MEN DON’T HAVE A SOCIETY-WIDE EPIDEMIC OF BEING HARASSED BY OTHER GENDERS SO THEY DON’T NEED A FUCKING SAFE SPACE FROM HARASSMENT.

PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND GET SOME READING COMPREHENSION YOU FUCKING GIT.

NOWHERE did anyone say that men don’t need safe spaces period, nor did we fucking say that men wanting a safe space should be “suspect”.

For all your fucking talk about “Oh, no, you didn’t understand me!” you sure as fuck can’t seem to be bothered to understand anyone else, you disingenuous little floater.

And, as another poster has alluded to, some women actually do laugh just an eensy-weensy bit at men. Like about “man flu” and such (my example, not the other poster’s). Some women also like all the “macho nonsense” and “playfully” tease guys about being pussies.

And that’s fucking shitty of them. How many times do I, a female-presenting person, have to condemn an action while you sit back and play the “I’m not like other girls!” bullshit?

How many times do I, a feminine-presenting person, have to tell you that your experiences aren’t universal? That your worldviews aren’t universal? That your “hunches” aren’t universally true because you think them?

Or am I just as bad because I mock men who are openly shitty to women, and that’s somehow not okay?

So maybe men DO have a reason for not always feeling (emotionally) safe around women, although of course OUR extreme likelihood of being murdered by men is totes grounded in everyday reality. It happens so much more often than women laughing at men or calling them pussies.

Anything I can say to this comment in particular will very likely be removed due to the comments policy. So, I’ll substitute it with this:

Go hug a cactus.

Also, guys like being able to enjoy the stuff they enjoy without having some girl roll her eyes and say it’s a waste of time ’cause it’s not what SHE’S into.

GUYS ALREADY GO AND DO THIS SHIT.

Guys have “Guys Nights” where they sit around and do what the fuck they want. Some people have “Man Caves” where they can always go to do what they want.

Why do men need a fucking dedicated “safe space” for this, Susan? They literally already have these spaces.

On top of that, a lot of men expect women to bend over backwards and expect that the man will want his “man time” and not have to deal with chores or other household drudgery, or to sit around and partake in HIS pasttimes. But gods forbid that a woman asks to take her man shopping or anything she likes to do.

Gripe. Gripe. Gripe. Women take too long to shop! Women spend too much money on stupid things! I hate shopping! Grumble, grumble, grumble.

But no, apparently we’re all awful because we’re not giving men MORE SPACE to do whatever the fuck they want to do.

Your thinking sounds eerily similar to that of some very controlling men who feel like they need to vet their wives’ friends, as well as let them know what books they can or can’t read, ’cause you know how impressionable women are — one of the “girls” gets a divorce and before you know it they’re all jumping on the bandwagon.

How the fuck are those two things similar? One is a place where men don’t have to conform to masculinity, the other is awful controlling behavior.

Please do enlighten me, Susan, what they do in your little world, because apparently that’s all that exists to you.

If it’s patronizing for men to want to control how women spend time together, it’s just as patronizing for women to feel like they need to police men.

WHO THE FUCK IS POLICING MEN?

WE ARE ASKING THEM TO TREAT US WITH RESPECT. WE ARE ASKING THEM TO NOT HARASS US. WE ARE ASKING TO BE TREATED AS PEOPLE.

HOW IS THIS POLICING? HOW ARE WE SOMEHOW BEING AWFUL PEOPLE BY ASKING “HEY, MAYBE DON’T TREAT US LIKE SHIT?”

Just please fuck off. I can’t be an alcoholic, but goddamn if you’re not making me consider the cider in the fridge.

My sister has fun playing World of Warcraft, which I think is part of the whole Gamergate controversy.

As a gamer, no it’s not.

But please, feel free to shove your not-knowledgeable opinions in here! I’m sure they’ll be wanted and warranted! [/sarcasm]

I don’t know much about the gaming world, as I’ve never been able to bring myself to care all that much about the outcome of any game; I’m equally happy whether I win or lose so people who really do care about the outcome find people like me kind of annoying…

I don’t find you annoying because you don’t care about scores. I find you annoying for a whole bunch of other reasons.

But as I understand the whole “video games as men’s spaces”-issue, with the games that started out as something that mostly just boys and men were into and then girls and women got more interested in later, it’s not that the guys are wanting to shut out ANYone who’s serious about the game and willing to accept how they’ve been playing it and the language they’ve been using.

Susan, I’ve been playing games since I was old enough to hold a GameBoy. That’s about when I was four. I have been gaming for about twenty two years out of the twenty six I’ve been alive.

So allow me, someone who’s actually interested in gaming, to give you a little advice: Shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about.

Girls and women have been into games just as long as men have. We were shoved to the background due to gendered advertising and branding games “boys’ things”, and now we’re getting more attention, and some dudebros don’t like that because MUH GAMES.

So, you don’t understand shit about games, and pretending you fucking understand even the basic 101 shit and that your opinions are anything but freshly pulled from your ass is laughable.

It seems, though, that some women come in and want to clean house and get everybody talking nice to each other. This may be a case where some women genuinely do need their own separate space to play World of Warcraft in. And some are happy to keep playing with the guys.

And some of us would appreciate it if men weren’t so fucking hostile to women in any space, let alone gaming, but I guess Susan says that’s Not Okay because that’s Being Mean to Men, whose feelings are OBVIOUSLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN A WOMAN’S RIGHT TO NOT BE HARASSED.

Go hug a cactus, go walk on a road of legos, fuck OFF.

David, please ban Susan already. My blood pressure’s high enough without Susan being this willfully ignorant of everything but still somehow pretending their opinions should somehow still be held in regard as worthwhile.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

That wasn’t what I said, but apparently that’s what you read into my comment about men sometimes wanting to talk with each other without worrying about a woman finding something they say offensive.

This seems like a distinction without a difference. What exactly do men talk about that’s offensive to women but isn’t misogynistic? Because I’ve been in plenty of mixed gender conversations about sex and who everyone finds hot and in which raunchy jokes were told and nobody got offended. I’m going to need some examples.

What I’m getting from some of the comments here is that a woman’s desire for a space just for women should be taken at face value, but a man’s desire for a space just for men should be highly-suspect: He must be up to no good. Because women know how to make good use of their spaces, but men don’t.

You know, nobody gives a shit if men want to form a club for themselves or have a male bonding night out or whatever. But you specifically said that men need a safe space to say offensive things about women. This is what people are objecting to.

I saw the hateful tweets. And I realize that many feel that having an interview or conversation with someone, or allowing them to put an arm around you for a photo, means that all of their views are now your views. I’m not sure where I stand on that — but since Jaye’s work involves shining the light on controversial issues and opening them up in new ways, maybe she sees getting to know him differently than people who see it as a big commitment to be open to getting to know someone who’s been dismissed by the majority of people (if they know about him).

Misogyny and racism aren’t controversial. They’re wrong. Full fucking stop. There is not two sides with equally valid points. You’re engaging in the golden mean fallacy. Whether Cassie Jaye personally holds white supremacist views, I don’t know. But I do know that like you, she is comfortable associating with people who do. It’s effectively the same thing.

http://www.relatably.com/q/img/desmond-tutu-quotes/059fdbae85098f6107c07f6890d0c4e0.jpg

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
5 years ago

Just please fuck off. I can’t be an alcoholic, but goddamn if you’re not making me consider the cider in the fridge.

Don’t do ittt

it’s too late for me

Save yourselllfffffff

(glub, glub glub)

BoinkBoinkBoinkBoinkBoinkBoink
BoinkBoinkBoinkBoinkBoinkBoink
5 years ago

I routinely faint at the sound of the word “fuck.” I think my corset tightened in feminine vapors just typing it.

FYI I’m a female gamer, I just got done playing MMO, where we talked about fitting the enemy players in my booty hole. Whenever I died, we joked about how my booty hole wasn’t big enough to fit them all. My other gamer girlfriends and I tea bag just as much as the guys, but we call it the clam stamp.

According to That_Susan, I should be laying on a couch in a tizzy requesting a safe space by virtue of nothing more than my vagina. Because women are such delicate flowers when it comes to language? Or maybe people simply don’t like to be harassed or abused just because they have a vagina, and it has absolutely nothing to do with “delicate feminine sensibilities when it comes to macho language.”

You need to get out more, That_Susan. Or stay in more. Whichever. But maybe not spout about something if you’re so obviously throbbingly ignorant about it? Just a crazy thought.

Rhuu
Rhuu
5 years ago

@That_Susan: As has already been said, women and girls have played games since games were invented. There was no controller port you had to whisper a magic man-word into for it to unlock, you just picked it up and played.

I have played games for most of my life, longer probably than most of the gamergaters have been alive. So make of that what you will. Perhaps you can add it to your data points of ‘women who I know who are X thing’.

Also, women have internalised misogyny, as men do. It’s something that happens, growing up in a culture that is patriarchal. I once yelled at some teenage boys who were whipping past me on the sidewalk on their bikes that unless they were little girls, they should be on the road.

I have beat myself up for that for years, because it is a shitty thing to say. I should not have implied that girls were lesser.

I am aware that we are not, and try to modify my language to *not* call people ‘pussies’ (because why would I want to link weakness with someone’s genitalia?) or other gendered slurs. I’m working on getting ‘dick’ out of my vocabulary as well, because even though the insults aren’t on any level the same, I still would prefer not to use it. I’m also working on ‘lame’.

And yet in the spur of the moment, I still did it, and sometimes still catch myself doing it. Because that is the world we live in, and I have internalised misogyny that can be really hard to untangle and come to grips with. All I can do is listen when people say things that make their lives harder, and try to adjust my behaviour accordingly.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
5 years ago

@BoinkBoink,

My other gamer girlfriends and I tea bag just as much as the guys, but we call it the clam stamp.

behehehehehe

Try ‘pressed beef sammich’
or ‘taco tuesday’

okay, enough booze for tonight I think.

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

I routinely faint at the sound of the word “fuck.” I think my corset tightened in feminine vapors just typing it.

I’m so sorry. Everything I’ve ever written ever must have caused you such stress.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/7eae86aeaeb2d0565c1a7be10b6599c0/tumblr_mi29reiZtu1s5p5xno1_250.gif

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

My friend and I used to play a game when we were kids. One of us would come up with something scary and playact it and the other would faint onto my bed as melodramatically as possible. We called it a fainting contest. I don’t know why because there was no point system or winner. This conversation about getting the vapors made me remember that.

Sadly, we quite often used perverts and rapists as the scary thing. Little girls shouldn’t know before they even hit puberty that to be female means to be subjected to male predation. But we did. We even made up a song about it. I think I shared it here awhile back but I will share it again.

When you see a pervert
There are many perverts
When you encounter a pervert
First scream! Than run! Yell rape as loud as you can!

: (

PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Noice) Sarcastic
5 years ago

BoinkBoink:

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

You fucking awesome crumpet, you.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

I actually had to practice fainting for a play I did once.

Except, I was supposed to be paralyzed and dead, and then I got pushed onto the floor, so I just had to slump over and not put out my arms for support.

It was a task, but I kept falling onto my bed until I got the hang of it.

guest
guest
5 years ago

‘There is some unexamined paternalism and, not to put too fine a point on it, racism in the current push for mixed-income, with the idea being that wealthy people are good role models for the poor and that’s why the poor do better (for some definitions of “better”) in mixed-income areas.’

When I was in the biz my reasoning was ‘rich people have the resources to make sure their neighbourhoods are looked after; all the better if their neighbourhoods also include people that aren’t rich.’

‘How loud do I have to shout it? Your experiences, such as they are, are outliers in the data. Your situation is a rarity.’

For decades I was baffled at the fact that I was constantly told women felt insecure and unsafe in public. I went everywhere at all hours of the day and night, by myself, and never felt restricted or concerned. (I still do this, but now don’t find women’s concern quite so baffling.) Nevertheless, as a city designer it was incumbent on me to understand that this was true. In many studies lack of security and perception of threat (from men) was the number one reason women didn’t use public transport, and this was supported by anecdotal evidence from my friends–just because I personally didn’t feel the same way or have the same concerns didn’t mean this wasn’t actually a thing that I had to take into account in my understanding and my work.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Very long rant coming:

It absolutely baffles and amazes me when a-holes like @That Susan come here claiming we are ‘hurting men’s feelingz’ and then in the same breath:

Say they are fans of writers like Andrea Harding aka JudgyBozo who not only raped men, gleefully make fun of male victims and defend rapists but also sympathizes with Hitler, lies and provoke to get as much money from guys as possible, wants to nuke middle eastern nations and says racial/homo/transphobic slurs. Oh yeah nothing says ‘I love and care about men and boys’ like raping, fantasizing about killing millions of innocent men and boys, lying to them, yelling slurs and sympathizing with an evil dictator who murdered and tortured millions of men and boys and left survivors traumatized for the rest of their lives. /S

@That Susan
I have Androphobia that means I’m scared of men and boys and I mistrust them (no matter their race, color, size, sexual orientation, age, etc) I have a hard time even looking at men and boys because of experiences and been told my whole life “boys will be boys” and now people like you are coming here and telling me “not all men” and of course there are history books, the news and I hear the countless stories of what women and girls go through everyday from what men and boys do and say to them and been told it’s their fault for those men’s and boys actions, “stop overacting”, “you’re lying”, etc. Ever since I been lurking on this site and other sites, now I’m even more afraid of them than ever before and I’m pretty disgusted when people defend them and dog pile anyone who is even a little bit scared of men and boys and just defend awful people in general too.

If you never had bad experiences with men/boys ever or whatever then good for you. But read what I said above and shut up and stop placing men’s feelingz over womens’ feelings

I understand that women and girls can do bad things too and it sickens me whenever I see and hear women and girls fight each other and hurt other people so I will tell every gal here. Please love yourselves and each other. We need to stop pushing each other down and listen to each other, support one another and be there for other people when they need us. And I do care about men and boys when they been abused (beaten, etc) or when I see a guy in the news, etc who gets killed, etc.

But the thing is I don’t care at all in the slightest about their ‘feelingz’ there’s a difference.

‘Feelingz’ like:
*Misandry/reverse racism/etc is real!
*Not all men!
*We built everything, fought all the wars, died, etc! So we deserve praise, relationships and sex! If you don’t give us what we deserve then you’re a bigot!
*I can’t get sex whenever I want! You females are so privileged!
*Why should I pay child support!?
*Why can’t I go to an womens only space!? I want a space too!
*Wah! There’s male tears mugs and other misandrist things online!
*Forget about creating spaces to help men and boys who have been raped, abused, etc myself, I’m going to rant about these women and girls about their spaces not being about me!
*False accusations! Rejection! Divorce! Not getting sex and sandwiches! Wah! Wah! Wah!
*Etc

I’m also so sick and tired of people who tell us not to generalize men or hurt their ‘feelingz’ when in the same breath people like you spit on the faces of women and girls (and possibly guys too) who have been traumatized, harassed, etc by guys and abandoned by everyone around them defending those a-holes who hurt them and also don’t say a d*** thing about guys who want to hurt, murder, etc us.

I’m so sick and tired of people who go back and forth between “boys will be boys” when guys do horrific garbage and then when one of us says “well if that’s what guys do then I don’t think I want to be with a guy then” people answer “Not all men are like that (at least not our men)! Stop being a misandrist!”

I’m so sick and tired of people who come here to exploit and pretend to care about men and boys “men and boys get raped and murdered too!” And “What about them paying for child support! That’s so terrible dontcha think? Why should they go to jail for that!? And false accusations! The horror!”

FYI Men have the right to ask for child custody and women pay for child support too and some women don’t get child support at all. The child support is for the child, you a-hole, do you want that kid to starve, have no home, no education, no nothing? If two people brought a child into the world then they’re both responsible for that child. If you don’t want a child then don’t have sex, get surgery and wear better protection. My child support barely paid the bills but my ‘sperm donor rapist’ lied to everyone saying my mom wasted his ‘child support’ to spoil me and herself rotten ‘I bought those clothes, I gave you everything’ he said to me, his family and friends.

And also another FYI women and girls get falsely accused too and guess what? Men and boys falsely accuse also. How do I know this? Me, my mom and grandma were falsely accused more than five times by different guys in our lives. And guess what? I take rape, abuse, etc more seriously than false accusations of them because they are rare and cases of rape, abuse, etc happen a whole lot more. I never ever raped, abused, etc anyone and so there’s no reason to be afraid of being falsely accused (but if I ever hurt someone in any way then I will apologize and pay the consequences) but you know who is truly afraid of accusations? Rapists, abusers, etc.

Im so sick and tired of guys’ and your ‘feelingz’ ‘divorce, child support and generalizing hurts men’ when you never once cared about our feelings ‘we are so scared for our lives, taking the blame and constantly told that we shouldn’t hurt men’s feelings because not all men and that’s misandry.”

I’m done explaining that the whole world including the Internet is one giant men’s space and men and boys can discuss actual problems and all of their problems are rooted in misogny but instead they (and women and girls who side with them) waste their time using their problems to derail us and blame us for everything and call us gender slurs. Guys (and gals who side with them) constantly make this into ‘us vs them’ war and only talk and pretend to care about guys (and even problems that other women face in other parts of the world) when they’re being used as weapons against us and only bring up ‘what about teh menz’ when women and girls talk about their problems in their spaces and wonder why none of their problems are being fixed…then they blame us for that.. People who take ‘misandry’ seriously are the ones who don’t care about men and boys at all but just want women and girls to suffer and be silenced.

I’m so sick and tired of people being lazy and complaining about dumb **** that is just whining and absolutely makes no sense (ex ‘how come we don’t have more male main characters in the media like more male main Disney characters!?’) I’m dead serious this is an actual problem I hear idiots whine about. If there is a story you want to hear but doesn’t exist then go write it yourself. Can’t remember who said that quote but I’m gonna to guess its Maya Angelou one of my favorite writers. (And so this is why I don’t go to sites like Tumblr anymore even though sometimes they have good stuff on there)

I’m getting off topic so anyway like I said before I care about people but I’m seriously done with their fragile ‘Feelingz’ sorry not sorry. And now I will end this with a kitten. comment image
Once again sorry not sorry.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

But as I understand the whole “video games as men’s spaces”-issue, with the games that started out as something that mostly just boys and men were into and then girls and women got more interested in later, it’s not that the guys are wanting to shut out ANYone who’s serious about the game and willing to accept how they’ve been playing it and the language they’ve been using.

Factually incorrect. Girls (and boys, and adults, and kids) played video games early on; it was only later that marketers (not designers, not game makers and not game players) decided to divide up the market and started producing gendered video game ads.

You need to do some reading about how toys and game marketing turned into the divided-gender shitshow it is now, because no, it wasn’t always like that. A lot of us girls grew up playing video games before the gender-segregation crap happened, games didn’t start out as a male safe space and no, guys can’t fucking have “video games” as a safe space now, just like women can’t fucking have “movies” as a safe space.

That_Susan
That_Susan
5 years ago

@Sigh :/: “Furthermore you extrapolate, on knowledge unknown, that feminists will not apply the same basic human decency to men who are victims of rape.

“Did I misread this?”

It’s possible that I didn’t make myself clear enough. I believe that most feminists will listen compassionately to any woman or man who is sharing their story of being raped without naming the accused, and accept what they’re saying at face value. As I would.

I must say, though, that I am glad to hear that you’re not in favor of automatic assumption of guilt. One feminist talking point I’ve heard is that only 3% of rapists ever see any jail time. Which makes no sense, at least in the U.S. I mean, there may be men in other countries who are tried and found guilty of rape and then just allowed to walk free, but I can’t believe that would happen here.

So it seems more likely that RAINN is assuming that everyone accused of rape, even if the rape isn’t reported to the police, is indeed a rapist. That’s not innocent till proven guilty. And since the majority of the accused are men, that essentially means making negative assumptions about men while assuming that all women are virtuous and would never lie about rape.

As far as my hunch that most feminists would be more inclined to sympathize with a woman accused of rape who says she’s innocent, I’ve already made it clear that feeling something doesn’t make it a confirmed and proven fact. I didn’t present it as fact.

This is no different than some people here expressing their own feelings about what kind of awful person they think I am. And I get it: It’s their right, it’s free speech, and I wouldn’t even mention it now except that it seems a little lopsided that the only one who should apologize for expressing their negative hunches is me. I’ll look for some other way to apply your caring advice about being the generous one. 🙂

And I don’t think I need to apologize for my hunch because I’ve already read at least a couple of posts here now implying that while it’s reasonable for women to want some areas where they can just be with other women and not encounter any men, men who want their own spaces must just want them for bad reasons, and women know better than men what kind of space men need.

You don’t think this sounds at all like the “skewed and incendiary” message that Christina Hoff Sommers refers to as “Women are from Venus, men are from Hell”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers
https://www.rainn.org/news/97-every-100-rapists-receive-no-punishment-rainn-analysis-shows

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Oh wow major ninja’d good job everyone. Like everyone said women and girls have been playing video games since video games were invented we didn’t ‘invade their spaces’ we are taking them back because they’re not sharing something that was never theirs to begin with.

And doesn’t matter their gender, etc no one should be harassing anyone period. Like everyone said women and girls take part of patriarchy too.

Rhuu
I agree with everything you said but I don’t think words like d*** is really worth worrying about since it’s just a nickname for Richard and other words for guys like b*stard is an illigimate child and pr*ck is poking yourself on something sharp, etc.
They are pretty much meaningless compared to gender slurs towards women since men are the ones who created those words in the first place. We have no power over those words. It’s like comparing words like ‘cracker’ to racial slurs like R*dsk*ns, N*gg*rs, etc.

And Lame was once a word and still is I believe to describe someone or animal who can’t walk but over the years people have changed their context like they did with stupid and dumb which used to mean ‘lack of intelligence’ and ‘mute’ however as an autistic woman I’m more concerned with people using words like retard, crazy, insane, using autistic as an insult, mentally ill, and loon because people still use these words to use as scapegoats to defend people’s (usually men or more specifically white men) bad behavior and throw actual mentally ill and disabled people like me under the bus. But I appreciate your concern however I think we should be more concerned about actual slurs like I stated above. ☺️

That_Susan
That_Susan
5 years ago

@Viscaria: “Men laugh at women all the time, are you kidding me? Have you never seen a woman try to box, or play basketball, or build a robot? Have you never heard a man chuckle and say ‘she’s so cute when she’s angry’? Is this your absolute very first day on this, our planet we call Earth?”

I have vague memories of that kind of chuckling from back in the Seventies when I was a kid, similar to women’s chuckles about men being helpless around the house.

Today, men seem a lot more careful not to come across like they’re laughing at women, and women seem more offended by it when it happens. But most still think it’s okay to joke about stuff like “man flu.”

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
5 years ago

I must say, though, that I am glad to hear that you’re not in favor of automatic assumption of guilt. One feminist talking point I’ve heard is that only 3% of rapists ever see any jail time. Which makes no sense, at least in the U.S. I mean, there may be men in other countries who are tried and found guilty of rape and then just allowed to walk free, but I can’t believe that would happen here.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

Got a problem with these numbers, take it to the Department of Justice, I am sure someone will be more than glad to speak with you about that.

Here I’m spoonfeeding you the direct answer to your favored “This One Articles Shows That Rape Culture is False, Feminists Hate It.”

Sexual violence is notoriously difficult to measure, and there is no single source of data that provides a complete picture of the crime. On RAINN’s website, we have tried to select the most reliable source of statistics for each topic. The primary data source we use is the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which is an annual study conducted by the Justice Department. To conduct NCVS, researchers interview tens of thousands of Americans each year to learn about crimes that they’ve experienced. Based on those interviews, the study provides estimates of the total number of crimes, including those that were not reported to police. While NCVS has a number of limitations (most importantly, children under age 12 are not included), overall, it is the most reliable source of crime statistics in the U.S.

We have also relied on other Justice Department studies, as well as data from the Department of Health and Human Services and other government and academic sources. When assembling these statistics, we have generally retained the wording used by the authors. Statistics are presented for educational purposes only. Each statistic includes a footnote citation for the original source, where you can find information about the methodology and a definition of terms.

So it seems more likely that RAINN is assuming that everyone accused of rape, even if the rape isn’t reported to the police, is indeed a rapist. That’s not innocent till proven guilty. And since the majority of the accused are men, that essentially means making negative assumptions about men while assuming that all women are virtuous and would never lie about rape.

Fuck. You. For Pushing Rape Culture. You. Deplorable. Sack of Moldy Bread. This shit, is why so many rapes don’t go reported. Because crap that you spout, is why most women feel like they can’t come out, because often times they won’t get help, not from the courts, not from the cops, and worse oftentimes not even from their own damned families and loved ones. This dog vomit is the garbage that right wing numbnuts like Sargon spews, this is the garbage that MRA’s spew to defend rapists. This is the shit where basically, let’s not take the side of the victim and just assume that they’re just some promiscuous being who has moral failings and deserves to be treated that way. To. Hell. With. That.

I thought we already moved past the fact that Christina Hoffman pretty much went to the camp of MRA’s and sang goodbye to things like decency.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers

Christina Sommers has a particular dislike of the methods used to promote the percentage-values of women in traditionally male-dominated fields. On the contentious application of Title IX in relation to female representation in STEM, she says
“”Title IX programs in the sciences could stigmatize women and cheapen their hard-earned achievements.
Regarding women’s studies departments, which often promote female representation in traditionally male fields, she claims “The professors peddle a skewed and inflammatory message ‘Women are from Venus, men are from Hell'”.[31]

Yeah, totally, a feminist spouts mra things that pretty much say, “meritocracy is real and if you can’t make the cut that’s because you failed to follow the prosperity gospel, you have failed your morals.”

When are you going to get it through your skull that your experiences are more outlier than a rogue planet?

Handsome "Punkle Stan" Jack

I must say, though, that I am glad to hear that you’re not in favor of automatic assumption of guilt. One feminist talking point I’ve heard is that only 3% of rapists ever see any jail time. Which makes no sense, at least in the U.S. I mean, there may be men in other countries who are tried and found guilty of rape and then just allowed to walk free, but I can’t believe that would happen here.

I’m done.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

That Susan
Are you seriously from another planet? Are you from ‘YourAnus’ because you are certainly talking from ‘there’.
I been falsely accused by guys and so have a couple of my family members. And I’m not afraid of false accusations because rape and abuse, etc happens a whole lot more and since you’re going with your ‘hunches’ (translation: making everything up that sounds good to me) and not listening to a word and other people here have said to you and actual facts people have spoon fed you here from actual sources like Rainn I’m just gonna to call you a ‘ignorant misognyist fugget’ who cares more about men’s ‘feelingz’ (Controlling men aka calling out men on their bigotry and just all around bad behavior because that’s so mean and we all know men are such ‘fragile uncontrollable creatures’ according to you) than women’s lives.

eli
eli
5 years ago

I have vague memories of that kind of chuckling from back in the Seventies when I was a kid, similar to women’s chuckles about men being helpless around the house.

I remember it in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 00’s and 10’s. It’s nothing like the helpless men chuckles. I take no pleasure in coddling men pretending to be helpless so they don’t have to do mindless, repetitive household tasks. Have you met Tim? I think you two would really get along.

Today, men seem a lot more careful not to come across like they’re laughing at women, and women seem more offended by it when it happens. But most still think it’s okay to joke about stuff like “man flu.”

I have never heard of a man flu until you came along. whatever. I’m sure women have always been offended. They’re just speaking up about it more now. And have better ways to be heard.

This one has worn out its welcome, most definitely.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Well if Susan can’t believe it, then is must not be so.
What are facts if not things entirely dependent on this asshat’s faith in them?

That_Susan
That_Susan
5 years ago

@Ooglyboggles: “On another not I still didn’t get an apology, and I still am pissed that you used that article fucking TWICE to prop up how such a good parent you are.”

Let me get this straight. On this thread about Cassie Jaye, you posted a link to an article about Asian American Studies and asked me what I thought about it. You later said you did this just to see what would happen. I read the article and shared what I personally got out of it at that moment. And since that time you’ve expressed a lot of animosity because, apparently, even though you weren’t aiming for anything in particular, just wanted to see what would happen, the response I gave did not match the reason you posted the link — that reason being, of course, just to see what would happen.

This is similar to another post I already sent in response to you about this. Giving an apology when I have no idea what you think I should be apologizing for is rather meaningless, don’t you think? But I guess you can keep reiterating that you still haven’t got your apology, because that’s what free speech is all about.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
5 years ago

@eli
After her running through the entire list of manosphere bs with flowery, evasive words, now it’s just straight up parroting everything every other troll here has said with a dash of “la di da I don’t know what you’re talking about ain’t my wording so innocent la di da.”

Oh, oh, now you’re doing this of all things, you just can’t let up can you?

I read the article and shared what I personally got out of it at that moment. And since that time you’ve expressed a lot of animosity because, apparently, even though you weren’t aiming for anything in particular, just wanted to see what would happen, the response I gave did not match the reason you posted the link — that reason being, of course, just to see what would happen.

To take a line straight from the meninist, well actually…

You basically used that article as a prop to glamorize yourself, as a way of saying, yes this article is exactly why I’m right about it, especially with that lady trying to restrict the thoughts and learning of the students with her “I don’t want to subject people like me and her to racism.” Us making our comments regarding cassie is unconstitutional but people being allowed to casually discriminate against people like me and her is a-ok.

I’m displaying animosity because this is actually something that is important to me, and you used it to again prop yourself up about how virtuous you are.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
5 years ago

I’m displaying anger because twice you used it as a way to say “look how good my parenting is, we should not restrict the thoughts of the youth.” a complete and utter dismissal of what the article said and the intentions of her and me. I’m livid because of this choice quote “sorry if you ever faced racist comments.” what a wonderful choice of words to implicate racist things against Asians doesn’t exist, like I haven’t heard that a thousand times before. Yeah I guess the rights of white male racists are more important than my own right to personhood.

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