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A Voice for Men is banning commenters who challenge Amartya Talukdar’s marital rape apologia

Rape survivor advocate Nayreen Daruwalla speaks to Indian women
Rape survivor advocate Nayreen Daruwalla speaks to Indian women. Click on pic to see her on CNN

So I was wondering if any of A Voice for Men’s readers had spoken up in the comments there about a rather sensitive subject: the fact that the supposed “human rights” site recently published a post that was not only 1) an apologia for marital rape but also, 2) written by a Holocaust denier and Hitler fan.

When I took at look at the comments there this morning, the answer was (of course) no: there was no mention of AVFM contributor Amartya Talukdar’s numerous Tweets describing the Holocaust as a hoax, Hitler as a great man, and Hillary Clinton as a “Jewess.”

Instead, I found that those who challenged Talukdar’s post (archived here) — which defended the Indian government’s refusal to see marital rape as rape — got harsh rebukes from other AVFM commenters and the site’s moderators, who went so far as to actually ban two commenters unhappy with Talukdar’s rape apologia.

No, really.

Take a look at the response one Donald J. Kingsbury got when he challenged Talukdar’s post.

donald j kingsbury  codebusters • 2 days ago There can be rape in marriage. Sadly Paul and the others will censor this, cause they don't believe in freedom. 1  • Reply•Share ›  Avatar Jason Beverly  donald j kingsbury • a day ago Dude,you seem to be fat headed white knight.Kindly carry your noble crusade of "CONCERN TROLLING" somewhere else.  • Reply•Share ›  Avatar Magnus  donald j kingsbury • 2 days ago Actually, they tend not to censor, but will (and did) ban you.  • Reply•Share ›  Avatar Grumpy Old Man Mod  donald j kingsbury • 2 days ago There can be rape in marriage. Sadly Paul and the others will censor this, cause they don't believe in freedom. Absolutely correct...but you are derailing the concerns of this article and appear to be simply Trolling.

It didn’t take long for Kingsbury’s prediction to come true.

 

donald j kingsbury • 2 days ago This page is shifty comedy. Just because you are married to someone doesn't mean they owe you sex, or even have to have kids with you. If she doesn't want to have sex, she doesn't want to have sex. She is not an object to be controlled, or something that is owned. And just because yr married doesn't mean she owes you sex when you want, go masturbate and get over yourselves. 1  • Reply•Share ›  Avatar Grumpy Old Man Mod  donald j kingsbury • 2 days ago You have been banned because of a serious and direct violation of Comment Policy (derailing and trolling). [Ref: 4895]  Additional remarks:  Yup,and no one is contesting that here.

This is what happens if you challenge the consensus at AVFM. Even if what you are challenging is an article by a Holocaust denier arguing that marital rape doesn’t exist because “marriage is consent.”

One commenter was unhappy with Grumpy Old Man’s response:

Alfredio  Grumpy Old Man • 2 days ago WTF is going on here. An article condoning marital rape gets posted and now you're banning people for 'derailing'. April 1st was a long time ago... Yet, derailing? I actually read that right...  AVFM has some fairly inflammatory stuff sometimes but usually in context I can see that it's actually egalitarian, just framed in a way to get people talking. But this, this is just disgusting. And now you're using the classic feminist tactic of banning someone for 'derailing' and expressing a different point of view.  This article should be removed immediately. Unless you want to provide real reasons to have this classified as a hate site.

His candid comment earned him this rebuke from AVFM’s top mod:

driversuz Mod  Alfredio • a day ago Derailing *and trolling*  "go masturbate and get over yourselves" is not a "different point of view;" it's an expression of disdain for the work we do.  As for this article being removed immediately, tell you what: after YOU devote years of your life to building a solid, well read site like AVfM, you can make all the editorial decisions you like. M'kay?  And btw, this site was never classified as a hate site. Get with the program already.

Never mind that the article in question defended the “right” of men to sex-on-demand from their wives by lamenting that if women in India were allowed to say no to their husbands, these poor fellows might have to resort to masturbation. Because in Talukdar’s view, evidently, it’s better for men to rape their wives than for them to be “forced” to masturbate.

There’s a lot more terribleness in the comments there, but to me the worst comes from a regular AVFM commenter who calls himself Shrek6, who has evidently convinced himself that “rape is not that bad a crime against a woman or human being.”

“A woman or human being.” That’s actually what he wrote.

Shrek6  Peter Wright • 2 days ago Where do you find all this stuff? I'm sure you're part sniffer dog!  And what a prophetic piece. We are not far from that now. Sickening actually, when you come to think of it. Very frightening.  You see young men in the US locked up for tens if not hundreds of years, simply for raping a woman. Rape is not that bad a crime against a woman or human being, when you compare it to murder, seriously bad assault, decades of imprisonment and abuse, etc, is worse. I mean, any form of child abuse is by far worse than the rape of an adult woman. If she is raped and bashed, then that is a different story. The perp should be locked up for rape and grievous bodily harm for some years that satisfies all of society, not just women. He still should not be locked up for the term of his natural life.  What the hell is going on with society today? Why is it that men/boys, guilty or innocent, should be forced to die in prison, just because they got some sex without paying for it, or the woman lied about it? Even if they assaulted her, they still should not be left in prison to die of old age, if they have redeemed and rehabilitated themselves.  This is not just a human rights abuse against men, it is sheer madness!

Heck, he explains in another comment, vaginas are tough, so most women don’t really suffer all that much from rape. As he sees it, most women can get over rape pretty easily if they can be convinced to forgive their rapists.

No, that’s what he really thinks:

Shrek6  Jeff • 2 days ago No women are punished for the rapes they commit. In fact it is believed they simply can't rape. Big joke hey.  Knowing the anatomical structures and what they look like on the inside, I can tell you that a man being forcibly raped up the rear end, is going to suffer horrendous injuries and women will suffer much less. Unless of course the rape of the woman is brutal and physically abusive.  The vagina is built to withstand some pretty harsh punishment, which is why you see a lot women enjoying some very rough sex.  On the other hand. The rectum is much thinner and unable to take that kind of punishment and is much easier to damage.  Knowing the above, I can see that the major injury suffered by women who are raped without assault, being that of psych and emotional, which will be understandably significant. If the woman is properly cared for with positive reinforcement to forgive the perp and get over their injury and move on with their lives, then most should do quite well.  And I am 'very obviously' not talking about the really bad cases!  I fail to see why any rape conviction from a rape that has occurred without any physical force and injury, that the perp should go to prison for much longer than a year to two MAX. It is ridiculous and abusive to say any longer.  Even IF they prosecuted women for raping men, there is no way they would go to prison for more than a month or two. If they went to prison at all.  And what about the men who are raped by men, and suffer all those internal injuries like I detailed above? I'll bet not much is done to give these victims the remedy they deserve.

These two comments are considered acceptable discourse at AVFM. Comments bluntly challenging an apologia for marital rape aren’t.

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Myriad
Myriad
7 years ago

Hugs to everyone who needs them.

Happy Birthday Paradox!

Paradoxical Intention
7 years ago

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone! I had a pretty good birthday, all this shit aside. I got to try new sushis!

And my uncle took me to an awesome place where sushi’s half off after five PM!

lith
7 years ago

Happy birthday Paradoxical!

lith
7 years ago

Rape is so much worse when it’s done to men – or it is if you’ve never experienced rape, don’t live under the constant fear it might happen to you if you aren’t ‘careful’, can’t or won’t even imagine what it would be like to have it happen to you and want to be able to rape women with impunity.
These people have no empathy. “I don’t mind being raped” said no-one, ever.
I don’t want them to be raped, but I can’t help feeling that everyone would benefit from them experiencing that sense of powerlessness, invasion and violation. Then the self doubt, recriminations, accusations of lying, fear of it being repeated or follow-up violence to keep them from telling etc.
Or they could just listen to what women are telling them about how it’s bad and don’t do it.

Paradoxical Intention
7 years ago

Aw, thank you Spindrift! 😀

Quartzok-43
Quartzok-43
7 years ago

“are tough, so most women don’t really suffer all that much from rape.”

From the same who religiously believes vaginas gets stretched and women are “used” by too much sex, lol!

dhag85
7 years ago

@Quartzok-43

Good point. They think an “untouched vagina” is the only value a woman will ever have. So.. rape (of a virgin) takes away the only value a woman can have, but it’s totally not a big deal.

Another contradiction in the narrative. How many are we up to now?

dhag85
7 years ago

Umm, in my previous comment I didn’t mean to imply that only vaginal rape is rape, or anything like that. Sorry.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago

“Hey, the mugger only took $3.00 from you. It’s not like he stole a hundred. Now THAT would be a crime.”

What a fucking idiot Shrek6 is. Essentially, he’s trying to argue that rape should only be prosecuted if another crime is committed alongside it, like assault. And then, the rapist should only be punished for that secondary crime. Rape? What’s that?

You have to wonder why he and his ilk are so heavily invested in defining rape out of existence. The fact that they don’t even think marital rape exists, while simultaneously rushing to defend it….they get so, so angry at the idea that marriage isn’t an ironclad contract guaranteeing them 24/7 access to someone else’s body. They act like it’s a huge betrayal of manhood not to have at least one socially/legally sanctioned arrangement in life where they get to have sex on tap, and never have to worry about consent.

Yeesh. If that’s their idea of marriage, then they need to go their own way. Far, far away. Preferably to a planet made entirely of Lego, with Lego oceans and a Lego atmosphere, which gets bombarded regularly by Lego meteorites.

Oh, and apparently, telling rape victims to “get over their injury and move on with their lives” is sound advice, but telling men to “get over yourselves and go masturbate” is unforgivably insulting and results in an immediate ban for trolling and derailing.

But they’re not a hate site, no sirree.

M.
M.
7 years ago

I get why it happened too. She fit the profile of a false allegation. Mental disorders, claims of excessive violence, and involvement of a stranger. (The only other thing police are told to watch out for is blaming it on minority perpetrators)

And, of course, “Violent non-white stranger” is literally the only situation where MRAs will call it rape. Victims just can’t win for losing.

noisyninja
noisyninja
7 years ago

Hilarious that he thinks rapists get locked up for life! In what universe? ???? The US average is 8 or 9 years, but I doubt they all stay the whole time. I’ve heard prison is worse for child rapists, but I doubt the other prisoners are like, “that guy violated a woman’s body! Get him!” I guess if his mission is to keep convicted rapists from being locked up for life… mission accomplished?

Ellesar
Ellesar
7 years ago

Sadly I know someone who uses the ‘get over it, it isn’t a big deal’ line’. My mother – who is not exactly anti feminist, but obviously not feminist. She conceded that if the victim was a virgin it would be a big deal. I was young at the time, so I did not argue with her like I would now.

pita
pita
7 years ago

I will admit that I also believe no one should go to prison for rape, but that’s just because I’m a very hardcore prison abolitionist. I don’t believe people should go to prison for murder, either.

I have a feeling that MRA objections to imprisonment for rape are not based on an ideological distaste for the prison-industrial complex, though.

Genny
7 years ago

I hate it when pages do this crap. I got banned from “MUH men’s rights activism” when they said it’s okay to fear all men if your hurt by one man and I asked “so if I’m hurt by feminists I can dislike feminism?”. It was a honest question.
Irony is their the page that shared this link, funny.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

You have to wonder why he and his ilk are so heavily invested in defining rape out of existence.

I don’t wonder. The majority are very likely rapists excusing their own behavior and trying to place their shame onto their victims. Guilt is a hell of a thing to live with. It will eat you up. It makes it easier for them to sleep at night to pretend they aren’t “really” rapists.
The rest just want to be rapists and likely will be if ever given the chance. They say as much with their rape apology.

Rapists and abusers support rape and abuse. That’s who MRAs are.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

pita,
I can agree that prisons need drastic reform yesterday and many, many people do not belong in prison. But, no. Rapists should not be free to rape again. The effect they have on the world is too toxic. It is not only the victims of the rape that are harmed but every little girl who has to walk the world in constant fear.

Silky
7 years ago

@pita

Instead of prison, what do you think should happen when someone commits a crime? Some form of restorative justice, perhaps? I also think our prison system is badly broken and needs to be fixed.

Silky
7 years ago

Regarding the thing about rape survivors being told to forgive their attackers:
I watched a movie a few years ago called “Forgiving the Bad Man.” It was from some small (conservative, in my opinion) Christian film company, the type that’s trying to make alternatives to ebil Hollywood films.
Basically, a 20-year-old virgin (who is living at home and working a menial job, despite obviously being middle-class?) gets raped by a stranger, turns him in (the film really glosses over the legal part), has the baby and /brings him to the jail to meet his father/, who gets reformed in jail before getting killed protecting his baby mama and son. It seemed like the movie promoted the idea that survivors of rape are expected to forgive their rapists; if the rapist had lived, I wonder if she would have been expected to marry him.
Anyway, I’ve never been in that kind of situation, so when I saw the movie, my thought process was roughly “Oh… forgiving people is good… so it’s good that she forgave him,” but this thread has really made me rethink things.
Thoughts?

M.
M.
7 years ago

Basically, a 20-year-old virgin (who is living at home and working a menial job, despite obviously being middle-class?) gets raped by a stranger, turns him in (the film really glosses over the legal part), has the baby and /brings him to the jail to meet his father/, who gets reformed in jail before getting killed protecting his baby mama and son. It seemed like the movie promoted the idea that survivors of rape are expected to forgive their rapists; if the rapist had lived, I wonder if she would have been expected to marry him.

Well, that’s the most nauseatingly misogynistic film summary I’ve read since MRA Conspiracy Theories: The Movie Gone Girl.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

Instead of prison, what do you think should happen when someone commits a crime? Some form of restorative justice, perhaps? I also think our prison system is badly broken and needs to be fixed.

Restorative justice has some problems. I am not an expert on it, but from what I’ve seen there is too high of a pressure for victims to enter into a dialogue with perpetrators and forgive them at the end of the process. That is two problematic pressures and neither of them are good. There is also the problem of: how exactly is someone who has been sexually assaulted to be “restored”? I really don’t understand how restorative justice is supposed to work for a rape victim who never wants to see the rapist again and is re-traumatized if forced to interact with the rapist.

If you know more about it, I would certainly welcome more information.

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