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Red Pillers thoroughly underwhelmed by Roosh V’s beta-as-heck appearance on Dr. Oz

Sheldon Cooper: Not a Red Pill role model
Sheldon Cooper: Not a Red Pill role model

Over on the Red Pill subreddit, the ALPHA DOGS are feeling a bit underwhelmed by their boy Roosh Valizadeh’s appearance on Dr. Oz’ daytime talk show promoting his glorious fat shaming crusade. Some even thought he seemed something less than alpha.

One post, with 143 upvotes, declares that “Roosh came across as an autistic man on Dr. Oz.” This is not exactly a compliment in red pill circles. While agreeing with Roosh’s terrible message, the OP complains that the hairy warrior for truth 

came across as extremely defensive in both body language and speech. For all talks of “frame” in the manosphere, Roosh presented himself as a man who was withdrawn, defensive, and quite frankly autistic. His speech was hesitant and slurred at times and he couldn’t make eye contact with Dr. Oz nor members of the audience most of the time; he had mannerisms similar to those of Sheldon Cooper.

Oh dear. At least Sheldon Cooper, a fictional uber-geek from The Big Bang Theory, is skinny. Imagine how poor Roosh would have felt being compared to someone fat!

Here are some other less-than-enthusiastic comments from that thread (and another) devoted to the Dr. Oz Massacre. Some criticize, some make excuses for Roosh. No one is happy.

It’s easy to hold frame on your self-produced website geared toward like-minded men. … Learn from his failure, have real conviction, and hold your fucking frame.

I find it rather ironic that he’s now hamstering on about how he felt (trying to find his “safe space”?! come the fuck on), whereas ultimately this is something he does to those oversensitive cows all the time. 

All and all it was a trap from get go. Remember mantain frame. You will come across people who will test it to upper limits. Don’t give people especially white knights (dr.oz) the satisfaction of seeing you lose frame. Stay focus on your mission no matter what it is.

For all his preachings of red pill principles, DYEL [Do You Even Lift] bro? Being skinny is just as bad as being obese. He needs to hit the gym. And stop playing with your goddamn beard like a nervous twitch! 

Dr. Oz is a prime example of a Dark Triad sophist. He’s a natural psychopath with life long experiences in lying and manipulation. … Dr. Oz applies just about every single one of the 48 Laws of Power.

[B]ut guys lets not criticize him. Because that show with its throngs of obese harpies, bright lights and strategic editing would be a formidable obstacle for any of us.

[H]e was cowed by their statements. I would’ve been red in the face pissed the fuck off. Fallacies, bully pulpitting, loaded questions out the ass. I would have talked over that miserable fuck and cross examined the fucker. Roosh didnt come prepared. He could have come knowing Dr. Oz has a slim wife.

I would have just responded to the hostility in kind. … Take the whole thing to a primal level and just start fat shaming all the warthogs in the audience. Better to be a charismatic villain than a deer in the headlights.

If he had any authenticity, he would have went down the line and fat shamed each of those porkers sitting on their high chairs….made them cry right on the spot. 

Oz is alpha as fuck. Or at least a really good debater. … That slimey motherfucker chewed roosh up, and he should admit it, lol.

Roosh got Rekt by the landwhale train and the chief-butt-muncher Oz.

Tough crowd, huh?

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Bernardo Soares
Bernardo Soares
7 years ago

I’d also have studies show that Men are much more logical than women

That’s alpha science. You don’t read studies to see what they show, you have them show what you want them to show. Much logic, so alpha.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 years ago

I like how the one comment is sufficiently self-aware to admit this:

It’s easy to hold frame on your self-produced website geared toward like-minded men.

and then others go on to engage in revenge fantasies about how I totes would have done sooooo much better. Yes, boys, it’s easy to fat-shame Oz’s entire audience while you’re anonymous on a reddit geared toward like-minded men.

Johanna Roberts
Johanna Roberts
7 years ago

@PussyPowerTantrum – thanks for that link. It’s an amazing read and good to see that he was able to realize what he was doing and change for the better. I mean, it’d be great if they ALL did but the small victories, right?

I’m not giving the comments in this post the time of day because the only use shit like that has is to be flushed far, far away from me.

Johanna Roberts
Johanna Roberts
7 years ago

The comments in this post being the one David wrote about, not everyone else’s in the comments section here which are, as always, awesome.

Kakanian
Kakanian
7 years ago

Isn’t this his second appearance on TV? I remember him being on an ukrainian talkshow where the women whose image he used on his page straight up said that they had never met him in person.

streever
streever
7 years ago

Depressingly, this won’t end the PuA community; it’s a closed loop of self-reinforcing ideas. The average red piller can say “Roosh is actually a pathetic beta now, but not me, I’m the real deal. I can do this. I can maintain frame.”
(WHAT ARE THE WORDS I’M EVEN TYPING)

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

Anarchonist

It really helped me formulate my theory that all evil in the world somehow has its roots in power and the craving thereof.

I read a really good description the other day. It was about a subset of the super-rich, the ones that get really involved in funding rightwing thinktanks and other political activity.

For these people, it’s not enough to win. Someone else has to lose.

I think that description applies more widely than the writer thought. There are a hell of a lot of non-rich people with the same or worse mindset. Their focus is on other people losing — even if it means that they themselves may not necessarily win.

Pelagic
Pelagic
7 years ago

Roosh doesn’t even lift. Weak ass male specimen right there.

KSRay
KSRay
7 years ago

Well, I think I’m fortunate, but I’ve never heard of “the 48 Laws of Power”. The way they were referenced in the post, I’m borne to wonder if they’re anything like the Rules of Acquisition.

So glad I wasn’t the only one.

Shalimar
Shalimar
7 years ago

They’re all alphas when they’re typing their fantasies in a tough-guy forum. Maybe 1% of them would have done any better than Roosh did if they had to go on television. See also Sage Gerard.

GrumpyOldMangina
7 years ago

Manospherians like Roosh get used to preaching to their tight little admiring choir and tend to have no idea how they look in the real world — see Sharlet’s article in GQ, which Elam & Co. apparently thought would be very positive and would vault them into respectability.
Roosh saw himself as an intellectual defending manly logic, but to OZ he was just a conveniently available pinata to be set up and destroyed.

reymohammed
reymohammed
7 years ago

These people consider themselves intellectually superior to women and then they revolve endlessly around their own gonads?

ikanreed
ikanreed
7 years ago

They literally think people are a game and trivial to manipulate.

This is the attitude of a high school freshman who thinks they’re smarter than everyone(Source: I was a high school freshman who thought I was smarter than everyone).

They suck at it, and they respond to this sucking by just assuming they need more rules. They can’t stop at “5 habits of highly successful people” and instead just keep ballooning their list of useless folk wisdom forever. 48 won’t be enough soon, and one of them will publish a 100 item list.

Pelagic
Pelagic
7 years ago

@ikanreed

It’s like they think they live in a video game. Like sex and respect are things they get for hitting the right button prompts. Beep boop.

They don’t even put any effort at all into their physique, yet criticise people on theirs.

Ellesar
Ellesar
7 years ago

Roosh looked bad, but these guys *obviously* would have been blindsiding left and right with savagely witty repartee that would decimate Dr Oz and his audience! Yes, of course, and I am the Queen of Sheba.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Obese Harpies is my new metal band!

“SCREEEEEEEEE!”

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

@PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer:

I want to thank you for the link to that remarkable story of “Ben’s” inner transformation from a misogynist to feminist.

It is remarkable, because “Ben” is: possessing rare self-awareness and capacity to do the inner work necessary for emotional development, as well as the ability to articulate his initial pathology common to (today’s) redpillians and misogynists world over.

His method of critically analyzing his emotional reactions, and then changing them — through empathy (why, of course 🙂 ) — is one of the best self-therapeutic interventions possible, and an excellent, and rare, example of genuine self-directed emotional growth.

But yes, his observation that if he were doing it today, in the age of Internet and eager “encouragement” from men similarly afflicted, he’d likely remain mired in his warpiness, is indeed chilling.

One of the worst aspects of the manuresphere (among so, so many) is its toxic influence on young men who may not be entirely depraved, but do not have a chance to notice that and do the necessary work at genuine self-improvement because they are pushed by their online buddies in the other direction: to remain emotionally stunted, angry, blaming women for their misery forever — and see it as the proper expression of masculinity.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

brooked,
Thanks for sharing. Wow. Such logic. So facts. That is such a sad peek into a confused person’s head. It does help me understand why these creeps are such…creeps.

Translation: “Fat women are bad because I don’t want to marry and impregnate a fat woman. Women with jobs and education scare me! I’m scared alot. Life is so scary. Please change the world so I will feel powerful. Oh, how the dominoes will fall if women are not forced to modify their bodies and lives! Woe is me! All is lost! ”

Holy shit, creepy dude. You just made an argument for being fat. I don’t want to be your fantasy incubator/sex toy/maid and mommy substitute. Ew. Ew. Ew. I don’t want to be a prop that provides you with the compliance you require to feel in control. You ain’t in control. Suck it up, buttercup. I don’t want to make myself small so that you can feel big. That’s your hang up.

Bleh.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Yeah, I agree with Anarchonist. I’ve read both the 48 Laws of Power and The Art of Seduction. They’re actually interesting reads, since the author is (iirc) a classical scholar. So the entirety of the books are him picking historical examples or anecdotes or stories and then going: “And from this we learn… be an asshole”.

Even the most basic and functional advice gets this odd spin of malign intentions. At some point int the Art of Seduction he mentions that finding other people interesting is a trait other people tend to like, because everyone likes people who are interested in them and want to know about their lives. This is pretty reasonable. Then there’s 6 page discussion about this, for some reason, and it ends with the warning that becoming too interested and forgetting yourself isn’t flattering. Again, reasonable, because people who seek to absorb other people’s personalities are kind of scary.

Only instead of the advice just fucking being: “Have an interest in the people around you, but don’t try to *become* them because that’s kind of terrifying and if you throw away every part of yourself to appease someone else you ultimately get nothing” it’s this weird, long 19 page triade against everything and how you need to be a chameleon but not too much of a chameleon but still *a* chameleon and arghh.

Other interesting words from Robert Greene include the 50th Law, about how rapper 50 cent is a “stone cold thug killer” which makes me wonder why *everyone* isn’t arrested because I didn’t know you could publish books about how you used to sell drugs and threaten to kill people without someone going: “Well, that breaks 8 different federal laws so off to jail you go”. 33 Strategies of War is Sun Tzu’s The Art of War for sociopaths who think commitee meanings are like battlefields. I haven’t read anything else.

I highly recommend them all! They’re fantastic books for finding out exactly what type of people you should never, ever deal with.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

When a man admits that the worst thing a woman can do is be independent, in control of her own sexuality and bad wife and mother material, it’s easy to see why chipping away at patriarchy scares him. He needs women to be things for him to use. He needs those things to be easy to get, keep and control. He needs to push women down because he cannot rise up. He’s weak. He’s frightened. He’s frustrated and angry. He’s decided that women are failures for not being dominated to cover what a failure he feels like every time he fails to dominate women.

He believes we should be the lowest of the low and yet, he does not feel sufficiently above us. That can’t feel good.

I hope it doesn’t. I hope it burns.

Mij
Mij
7 years ago

When will all the fat shaming shaming stop?!?

Has no-one any shame?!?!?

/s

The Knitting Cinephile
The Knitting Cinephile
7 years ago

Those 48 Laws of Power sound like the mantra of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. I’m surprised that “Kittens will fit in ATMs” and “Chainsaws always land chain-side down” aren’t in the list.

FifthInterval
7 years ago

Revenge fantasies of the impotent: the guiding principle of the RedPill subreddit.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
7 years ago

@Fibinachi

One thing (out of a few) that I’m grateful to feminist boards for is that I have a much better awareness of red flags and what dodgy guys with dodgy intentions look like. Obviously they don’t always give themselves away, but I’m so glad I have a good idea of what an obsessive control freak does to try and control me. If I spot the signs early enough it means I can nope the fuck out of there before I become too entangled.

Falconer
Falconer
7 years ago

Oh ick, there’s a clickbait ad going around about “My Dad’s Trick to Seducing 19 Year Olds.”

I haven’t seen it on here, thank random fluctuations in the space-time continuum.

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