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Red Pillers thoroughly underwhelmed by Roosh V’s beta-as-heck appearance on Dr. Oz

Sheldon Cooper: Not a Red Pill role model
Sheldon Cooper: Not a Red Pill role model

Over on the Red Pill subreddit, the ALPHA DOGS are feeling a bit underwhelmed by their boy Roosh Valizadeh’s appearance on Dr. Oz’ daytime talk show promoting his glorious fat shaming crusade. Some even thought he seemed something less than alpha.

One post, with 143 upvotes, declares that “Roosh came across as an autistic man on Dr. Oz.” This is not exactly a compliment in red pill circles. While agreeing with Roosh’s terrible message, the OP complains that the hairy warrior for truth 

came across as extremely defensive in both body language and speech. For all talks of “frame” in the manosphere, Roosh presented himself as a man who was withdrawn, defensive, and quite frankly autistic. His speech was hesitant and slurred at times and he couldn’t make eye contact with Dr. Oz nor members of the audience most of the time; he had mannerisms similar to those of Sheldon Cooper.

Oh dear. At least Sheldon Cooper, a fictional uber-geek from The Big Bang Theory, is skinny. Imagine how poor Roosh would have felt being compared to someone fat!

Here are some other less-than-enthusiastic comments from that thread (and another) devoted to the Dr. Oz Massacre. Some criticize, some make excuses for Roosh. No one is happy.

It’s easy to hold frame on your self-produced website geared toward like-minded men. … Learn from his failure, have real conviction, and hold your fucking frame.

I find it rather ironic that he’s now hamstering on about how he felt (trying to find his “safe space”?! come the fuck on), whereas ultimately this is something he does to those oversensitive cows all the time. 

All and all it was a trap from get go. Remember mantain frame. You will come across people who will test it to upper limits. Don’t give people especially white knights (dr.oz) the satisfaction of seeing you lose frame. Stay focus on your mission no matter what it is.

For all his preachings of red pill principles, DYEL [Do You Even Lift] bro? Being skinny is just as bad as being obese. He needs to hit the gym. And stop playing with your goddamn beard like a nervous twitch! 

Dr. Oz is a prime example of a Dark Triad sophist. He’s a natural psychopath with life long experiences in lying and manipulation. … Dr. Oz applies just about every single one of the 48 Laws of Power.

[B]ut guys lets not criticize him. Because that show with its throngs of obese harpies, bright lights and strategic editing would be a formidable obstacle for any of us.

[H]e was cowed by their statements. I would’ve been red in the face pissed the fuck off. Fallacies, bully pulpitting, loaded questions out the ass. I would have talked over that miserable fuck and cross examined the fucker. Roosh didnt come prepared. He could have come knowing Dr. Oz has a slim wife.

I would have just responded to the hostility in kind. … Take the whole thing to a primal level and just start fat shaming all the warthogs in the audience. Better to be a charismatic villain than a deer in the headlights.

If he had any authenticity, he would have went down the line and fat shamed each of those porkers sitting on their high chairs….made them cry right on the spot. 

Oz is alpha as fuck. Or at least a really good debater. … That slimey motherfucker chewed roosh up, and he should admit it, lol.

Roosh got Rekt by the landwhale train and the chief-butt-muncher Oz.

Tough crowd, huh?

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Tracy
Tracy
7 years ago

36. Show contempt for things (and people) you cannot have.

Well that explains a lot.

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
7 years ago

What I’m the blue hell does ‘frame’ mean?

Basically “maintain frame” means “to keep control of the conversation”. For example, if you want to do X, you need to make sure that the focus of the discussion is, “What’s the best way to do X?” and not let it turn into an argument about “Is X really something you ought to be doing?”

Common strategies for “maintaining frame” involve interrupting people, ignoring people, and yelling at people.

Anybody who thinks he can walk into somebody else’s television studio and appear on somebody else’s talk show while “maintaining frame” probably has a wonderfully vivid imagination.

jy3
jy3
7 years ago

Commenting to follow.

Bina
7 years ago

And those 48 “rules of power” come off as “rules to be an abusive, uncaring, antisocial sack of bovine shit”.

Not to mention friendless, universally despised, and Forever Alone.

gabrielletpatterson
7 years ago

Omg that 48 Laws crap…All I can think of is that Prince of Persuasia character from Bob’s Burgers. “Rule number 1, trap your princess! Physically corner her!”

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago

You called it, brooked!

@Robert I think “maintaining frame” means “keeping the upper hand”, eg you (the PUA) are the one framing the interaction. To maintain frame is to define who is in control and what the situation is.

It’s pretty laughable considering how terrible PUAs are at understanding basic human interactions and motivations, and how way off base their “field reports” are. They’re like Dylan’s Mr. Jones: something is happening here, but they don’t know what it is. So they’re just going to make terrible shit up, treat people like things, and pretend they’re in charge to make themselves feel better.

It’s easy to hold frame on your self-produced website geared toward like-minded men

Why yes, it is rather easy to spout macho internet tough guy fantasies from the safety of your “website geared toward like-minded men”, isn’t it?

Try it in front of a hostile audience, with lights and cameras trained on you, and a seasoned host whose ratings depend on keeping tight control of the show. Where you actually have to speak, not type, and dress up. Where body language and appearance suddenly count, and you’re no longer anonymous, and Mom and Aunt Matilda and all your friends and coworkers are watching, and you don’t get infinite amounts of time to craft your little playground zingers. Whole different ball game.

Not that I’m defending Roosh, but I can’t believe this guy is attacking him for not being enough of an asshole on national television. It just proves that the red pill movement isn’t about winning hearts and minds. It’s about scoring cheap points using cheap tactics and feeding the ego at the expense of others.

JL (@JlBriana)
7 years ago

I figured Roosh wouldn’t end up compromising and admitting that asshattery gets him nowhere. I didn’t expect that he’d self-censor quite as much, though; I was expecting a full-on diatribe against all his pet peeves of short-haired feminist American women who won’t sleep with him. He argued the one-dimensional “it’s okay to insult people’s appearances because they might think it’s okay to exist otherwise” angle without dipping into the complex web of hate that is his belief system. Seems like Roosh disappointed all parties with his lackluster rhetoric and failure to engage with anyone on the show. The high point was getting to hear Oz properly pronounce “Valizadeh” – the rest was downhill.

Mikki
Mikki
7 years ago

You mean the egotistical maniac who created a fake Internet persona so he could bully women with impunity, who has to screw drunk women and foreign prostitutes, and who can’t stand the thought of bathing *GASPS* has poor social skills??!!! There’s no way Roosh V of all people would be terrible at face to face conversations with people who see him as an equal and hold him responsible for his own actions !!!!!!!

Machine Gun Sally
Machine Gun Sally
7 years ago

… “charismatic villain”?

Machine Gun Sally
Machine Gun Sally
7 years ago

“maintain frame” immediately made me think of Dirty Dancing and I felt a little bit better.

bekabot
bekabot
7 years ago

Oz is alpha as fuck.

No, he’s not. MRA’s are easily impressed. Dr. Oz is a sleazy charlatan who preys on the unwary and Roosh falls (fell) right into the category of “the unwary” (as he admits himself).

Or at least a really good debater.

Not necessarily the same thing as being “alpha,” as any look at an average high-school debate team (as opposed to its football squad) will prove.

(Let’s not leave all the stereotype-mongering to the opposition, hmm?)

odaran
odaran
7 years ago

Boys are going 48 laws of power on Roosh now. Well, he taught them to torture others.
No compassion and understanding in men’s world.

ignotussomnium
ignotussomnium
7 years ago

Bekabot, to be fair, “sleazy charlatan who preys on the unwary” is basically what Alpha means to these folks.

brooked
7 years ago

Here’s a fury filled TL:DR post by Confidencematters, a reddit TeRPer enraged that Roosh didn’t use all the peer reviewed studies from Return of Kings to “demolish” Dr Oz. I particularly enjoy how he repeats Roosh’s claim that men are more logical before raving on and on about sluts and whores, despite the topic being fat shaming.

Warning: All TeRPer rants are a little soul destroying, they’re definitely the nadir of the Manosphere, which is really saying something.

You don’t need to be a great public speaker to demolish the pretty lies and the delusional fat, fugly american whores of America.

In fact, you don’t have to be a great public speaker or even a great debater to demolish that f*****t Dr. Oz.

Motherfucker printed out 50 pages that “proved” fat-shaming doesn’t work.

I would have 1000 pages proving

1) obesity isn’t healthy

2) obesity is sign of mental illnesses

3) mental illness leads to promiscuity/sluthood

4) sluts make terrible wives and mothers

5) children that live in homes/marriages where the mothers are terrible grow up with a higher chance to, simply put, fail at life and negatively affect their peers, and thus, society as a whole.

I’d also have studies show that Men are much more logical than women, and thus need to be approached logically, whereas women are the more emotionally-tuned sex, therefore need to be approached emotionally (shaming).

I’d also have links/cites that prove fat-acceptance and slut-acceptance and careerism (all promoted by feminism) hurt women WAY more than they help, and is correlated with low libido and DEPRESSION among women.

What’s insane is that ROK has articles with a plethora of links proving all of this shit, and ROOSH didn’t use any of the resources he had at his fingertips.

Everything Dr. Oz said was erroneous and it could have been demolished. Everything those fat sluts said could have been demolished as well.

It’s just retarded how many are simply not prepared. Hell, even on here people don’t know what it is to cite/back up what they say with concrete evidence.

Concrete evidence from ROK, natch.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

I am also scratching my head over why anyone would think that shouting over the host and hurling insults at the audience is going to make one look better.

I mean, you’d be the biggest asshole in the room and security would probably be escorting you out of the building, but that’s not exactly winning the argument or getting your message out to a wider audience.

But hell, maintain frame!

metricula
7 years ago

This is amazing. Not so tough, huh?

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

Saying that Roosh was unprepared for the occasion is an understatement.

Two years ago, he wrote an extremely derogatory (but of course) piece about Dr. Oz and his wife titled “Dr. Oz Is A Pussy:” http://www.donotlink.com/ey82

It is hard to imagine why he would expect to be treated with kindness on Oz’s program after that, even apart from everything else. It shows the astonishing depth of his narcissistic self-delusion, among other things.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

@JL (@JlBriana):

“I figured Roosh wouldn’t end up compromising and admitting that asshattery gets him nowhere. I didn’t expect that he’d self-censor quite as much, though; I was expecting a full-on diatribe against all his pet peeves of short-haired feminist American women who won’t sleep with him. He argued the one-dimensional “it’s okay to insult people’s appearances because they might think it’s okay to exist otherwise” angle without dipping into the complex web of hate that is his belief system.”

Your expectation (which I share to a large degree) reminds me how we tend to overestimate soulless individuals like Roosh by attributing to them depth and complexity that most of us possess.

But Roosh & his redpillian Co. are as one-dimensional as they appear. What you see / hear with them is exactly what you get. And they certainly have no insight into hate that informs their belief system (which, I’d argue, is not particularly complex).

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
7 years ago

“I mean, you’d be the biggest asshole in the room and security would probably be escorting you out of the building, but that’s not exactly winning the argument or getting your message out to a wider audience.”

Ah, but then you could claim that you were totally winning that argument and they had to use security to take you away because you were just speaking too much truth!

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

P.S. In my earlier comment, I should have said “extent” rather than “depth,” as in:

“It shows the astonishing extent of his narcissistic self-delusion, among other things.”

There is no depth there.

M.
M.
7 years ago

I’m showing my age here, but “Maintain frame” just makes me picture Bob from ReBoot in “Peacocking” gear.

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
7 years ago

Um:

He could have come knowing Dr. Oz has a slim wife.

“You don’t like that we fat shame but you didn’t marry a fat woman did you, Dr. Oz? DID YOU?!?!?! Explain that, you filthy hypocrit!!!”

I have no evens to just…

dhag85
7 years ago

Two things:

1. I’m amazed that they obviously think Roosh would’ve come off better if he had screamed “YOU’RE ALL FAT” at the audience.

2. I don’t know if I should commend them on being consistent, but it makes me giggle so hard when I see them now worshipping Oz almost like a god for out-alphaing their previous god. While still hating him, of course.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
7 years ago

Oh wow, I have actually read The 48 Laws of Power. It is a fascinating look into the mindset of people who want to rule others. It really helped me formulate my theory that all evil in the world somehow has its roots in power and the craving thereof. My reading of the book is one of the many reasons why I am a political anarchist today. In other words, a useful book altogether, though perhaps not in the way the author intended.

And these guys are fucking assholes. Just saiyan.

PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
7 years ago

I find it rather ironic that he’s now hamstering on about how he felt (trying to find his “safe space”?! come the fuck on), whereas ultimately this is something he does to those oversensitive cows all the time.

There may be a glimmer of awareness in this one. Other than the hostility to women (or maybe to bovines), this was the irony David himself pointed out in his post about Roosh’s appearance on the show.

And in case people are starting to lose all hope, I’ve been reading posts by former misogynists who managed to pull their heads from their asses. https://noodlemaz.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/confessions-of-a-former-misogynist/ I started from this article and followed the links at the bottom. It’s quite heartening that people grow up and change! On a sobering note, though, the author of the post said he would not have changed if the internet and social media were available the way they are today.

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