Categories
antifeminism armageddon crackpottery has possibly never spoken to a woman men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny none dare call it conspiracy patriarchy rape culture reddit sexual exploitation women's jobs aren't real

Just some MGTOWS dreaming of the apocalypse – and how it’ll make ladies less stuck-up

Man going his post-apocalyptic way
Man going his post-apocalyptic way

It’s no big secret that many doomsday preppers yearn for the apocalypse — if for no other reason than the opportunities it will provide them to say “I told you so” to all those who doubted their paranoid fantasies. And to possibly shoot some of these unprepared scoffers when they come begging for food.

Nowhere is this more obvious than amongst those apocalypse-fantasizers who’ve convinced themselves that it will be feminism, rather than volcanic eruptions or nuclear war or Donald Trump, that will bring about the end of the world.

On the Men Going Their Own way subreddit, the regulars are talking apocalypse, as modern misogynists are wont to do. And it is as revealing as these exercises always are.

A fellow called BagOfBrokenBits dreams of a not-very-distant future in which uppity ladies “will do whatever they are told.”

The future as I see it, is that as society collapses around us (5-15 years?) most women outside of a tightly controlled patriarchal group simply will not survive, because nobody will put up with their sh*t long enough to feed them. When resources are scarce they will not be able to defend what they have and most lack the health, strength and abilities to obtain or build what they need. There will be no feminism, there will be patriarchy. Men will work together as they always have, in challenging and horrific conditions. Women will do whatever they are told because conditions will be too harsh to tolerate dissent.

And Mr. Bag will be one of those doing the telling, because of all the toiletries he is hoarding:

I am a Prepper. I currently have stores of food, toiletries etc for five years with tools, seeds etc to extend that.

He’s apparently filling his doomsday bunker with as many canned goods as he can get his hands on:

It has been noted that in past shortages due to wars an afternoon with a woman can be had for a tin of … anything really.

You know what I mean, you know what I mean? Nudge nudge say no more!

The pros and cons of the apocalypse:

Cons:

  • Death of most of the human race
  • Contamination of water sources with dead bodies
  • No medical care beyond basic first aid
  • Return to stone age civilization

Pros:

  • Women will have sex with you for a can of beans

AOF_Semiramis suggests moving to New Zealand. And he has some interesting thoughts about Pokemon GO.

Go complete ghost in New Zealand or the likes.Heck even in the US with private as fuck properties.Grow your own food,have stable ways to get water and raise animals a la farm.Fish too if your near a lake.Assuming your far away enough,lake is isolated enough,your too far from idiot humans and any large concentration of them,then nukes won’t land on your spot too since it would be a waste of resources.(Its why the CIA funded Pokemon GO. So the brainless droves would fill the map for them.Obviusly there are still holes.)

Surviving the apocalypse is so easy that even a kid could do it!

Also..a 15 year old discovered an ancient city due to studying the stars in Central America.So you can bet that there are other places in the world where you can live safely.

Make sure to pack popcorn, for all the gloating you’ll be doing.

I know its f*cked up,but nothing you can do to stop it. You can only save yourself at most.So just chill,get some popcorn,and just accept the f*cking up.

timoppenheimer, meanwhile, doesn’t seem to be doing any prepping beyond living as selfishly as he can:

WWIII is coming, and I am horrified too, OP.

My plan is to enjoy my life. They already took my foreskin; fuck society, I’m living my life for me.

Talkytalktalk is evidently a fan of Alex Jones:

This is the great culling of the human population. The eugenics population reduction freaks are going to kill billions and out the rest under the yoke of totalitarianism. It takes a woman to pick the runts and dispose of them.

But which woman? WHICH WOMAN!?

I need to know now so I can mangina my way into her good graces before the culling.

464 replies on “Just some MGTOWS dreaming of the apocalypse – and how it’ll make ladies less stuck-up”

No, you’re not alone. I love those things. When I was a kid I used to collect the stickers. I loved stickers so much I had a hard time actually using them, and these were extra special to me so I didn’t even pretend I was going to use them.

I have a tin of stickers I’ve been collecting since I was a kid. Sometimes I use the duplicates I’ve gotten. I think my favorite is between the orange ninja or the ones that have English on there, like a sticker that says “BANG” it a business giraffe pointing at a picture of flan labeled “pudding”.

EDIT: You know, for the sake of how this thread went, THIS is my favorite.

http://i.imgur.com/r3AGODth.jpg

https://media.giphy.com/media/wOnPjIILo2i8U/giphy.gif

Nick G: I thought it was Central Asia mostly, not Mesopotamia. Avicenna from current Uzbekistan, Al-Kwarezmi from Kwarezm (obviously), near the Aral Sea.

numerobis,

A lot of the intellectuals were from Central Asia (and Iran, Syria, etc.) but the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties were based in Baghdad, and I specified “the monarchies”. The Fatimid dynasty in Egypt was also later important in the patronage of Arabic science (i.e., science in the medium of Arabic, many or even most of those prominent in it were not Arabs, quite a few were non-Muslims – Christians, Jews, pagans, possibly even atheists). And when the Abbasids overthrew the Umayyads in 750-ish, one branch of the latter survived and patronised intellectuals in Spain; and later (after that dynasty had fallen), the Christian (re)capture of Toledo in 1085 gave a huge boost to knowledge in western Europe, as both original Arabic texts, and Arabic translations of Greek ones, were (re)translated into Latin (mostly by Jewish scholars IIRC, although Adelard of Bath and Gerard of Cremona rightly get a lot of credit).

I’m back in Chicago. Thanks Oogly 🙂

I’ve been reading through the thread since last night, and there are two comments I wanted to make on some of SR’s points:

1) At the time of the American Revolution (or the English Colonial Revolt, or whatever it’s called in Canada and the UK), George Washington was one of the wealthiest people on the continent, if not the world. HOWEVER, this was because he married Martha Washington, who was the heiress to one of the wealthiest planters (read, slaveholding plantation-owners) in Virginia. So, if we want to read it that way, Martha was a true-blue American aristocrat, and George just married into her status.

2) I always felt quite sorry for Alexander II. What little I know about him strikes me as a person who genuinely wanted to do right by his country, but was undone by the aristocracy that he depended on. Sort of tragic, to my mind. However, I will admit that my knowledge of Russian history is about as superficial as a Russians knowledge of US history (true fact: I had to explain what ‘the south’ referred to to one of my medical school classmates from Belarus, as he’d never heard of the American Civil War).

@EJ: That was a truly touching post in response to SR. I hope he gains something from it. I initially thought he was simply trolling, but digging through these comments, I agree that he may be seeking help, although possibly subconsciously.

@Schildfreja: I have to ask, what is ‘Unnyones’? I tried googling it, and got a whole bunch of references to ‘the funny ones’, which was apparently an old sitcom. Also, props to you for your patience with SR as well, but you’re always patient with people here.

Is it just me, or is Sedentary Reactionary just another way of saying Armchair Warrior?*

*It’s probably just me.

ETA: Hmmm. My icon changed color, too.

MarkyMark

It was a weak fight by feminists. ERA and all that. The possibility of a female president is the only reason why conscription for women was even on the table – and feminists were glad TRADCONS squashed the possibility of such ‘equality’.

That’s not true.
Untrue. Since that time feminists have been working to get women allowed in all places in the military. That’s why women weren’t conscripted. And as soon as it was made illegal for women to be kept out of all positions based on gender the issue was back independent of a female president. It’s been on the selective service site for years stating that the supreme court will have to revisit the ruling when women were allowed in those positions.

I’m not a fool. In the last battle to open conscription to women – there were no marches to end male only conscription.

yeah they examined why it was male only and worked to change that. It’s funny, a lot of men’s groups were all for using the ERA, not because they thought women should get equal rights, but because they thought they could use it to end the draft completely because they couldn’t imagine women in combat. After the court ruling, did they join with feminists to get women into combat roles?? Nope!

Feminists are also against shared custody to end child support.

Uhh this is stupid and wrong. Feminists are all for shared custody. You know most men don’t even TRY for custody? Because society doesn’t pressure men to be a caregiver of their kids like it does women. But you know what? When men TRY for custody they usually get it. You want to use the men who don’t even attempt for custody to pad your numbers. Go look at real numbers.
As for child support, let’s return to the numbers of men who don’t even try for custody. Women are the ones who are expected to take care of the kids, with or without the father there to help. You want to get rid of child support?? Encourage more and more men to help take care of their kids. Help make child care not only the woman’s job. Let it be gender neutral. That’s why child support exists, because we don’t expect a man to help take care of children, so we have them assist financially because children are expensive.
Then again, you don’t even want men to help keep their children fed or in clothes, why would I expect you to encourage them to help with the actual care.

Feminism is about true equality – so long as it benefits women over men. Unfortunately – it tends to give lip service only to things that don’t specifically benefit women. Feminism often only raises male issues to immediately sweep them aside. Compared to the false gender pay gap – how many articles on the end to male-only conscription do you see? The common answer by feminists is to end conscription all together – a neat way to avoid the argument. I’m not an idiot.

See above about working to get women in combat roles. It wasn’t male only because of discrimination against men, it was male only because women weren’t allowed. And feminism has worked for decades for that equality. If they did it your way, men would still be the only ones allowed in combat roles (which I’m guessing is how you want it anyway).

Handsome Jack:
Eh, anime dudes look the same to me.

But this
http://67.media.tumblr.com/fcccfffe6c26a769a28585f23b249f5f/tumblr_mqaaldnUFa1r2u7p0o1_500.png
This is beautiful.

(That’s a reference, no actual judgement.)
Bah, you think american cartoon dudes look different?
Look at this other american cartoon guy!
http://i.imgur.com/pMSteZW.png

Looks the same! They could be twins.

@Nick G – Not just Jewish scholars; when you look at something like Alfons X’s great translation court in Toledo, you find scholars from all over the place. Although, IIRC (and I definitely might not RC, I didn’t read much about it) a lot of the initial translation from Arabic was done by Jews, into languages like Castilian, to later be translated into Latin etc.

@joekster, it means ‘peace’, or more specifically, ‘freedom from hate.’ Pronounced rather like “un-IDH-ness,” I think, making the whole thing “sildh-FREY-ah-un-IDH-ness”.

Why yes, I do like tongue twisters.

And thank you, Nick et. al. for the history lesson! Not my strong suit.

Feminists are also against shared custody to end child support.

Pretty sure this is a reference to a particular law from somewhere in the midwest (can’t remember off the top of my head) that the local NOW chapter opposed. The law purported to rectify a bias against men in issues of child custody.

What it actually did was split custody 50/50 between the two parents by default with zero reference to any specific family’s actual circumstances. If one parent felt the other shouldn’t have the kids exactly half the time, they then had to go through all the bureaucracy associated with that after the fact.

Even apart from situations where one parent is abusive or otherwise unfit this is quite clearly a horrible way to handle child custody. Women don’t get custody because they’re women but because, in most cases, women are the primary caregiver and courts wish to avoid as much upheaval as possible for the kids. The last thing they need in the midst of their family falling apart is to suddenly have to spend half of their time away from their primary caregiver.

And then you have abusers. Under this law, even an abuser would get shared custody by default and it would be the other parent’s problem to get them declared unfit after. After the kids got sent to spend half their time alone with their abuser. And if the abusive parent was male, he could just pull the whole “she’s making this up to alienate my children from me” schtick and be believed. And then later, when the kids actually turned up injured or dead, Mom would still be the villain for allowing her children to spend time with their abuser.

Which is why NOW opposed it. Which NOW’s website explains quite clearly. But MRAssholes still bring it up because they’re fucking selfish, entitled shitheads who view children not as little human beings to be loved and nurtured but as property that they feel entitled to half of however much harm is caused.

Nick G: ah, I see the distinction.

Quite fascinating how what’s the pinnacle of civilization and what’s a backwater has flip-flopped over the millennia.

@Scildfreja

Pronounced rather like “un-IDH-ness,” I think, making the whole thing “sildh-FREY-ah-un-IDH-ness”

Uhm, actually… Nah, you got it. I just need to exercise my pedantic ‘splaining reflex lest the stress build up too much and I ‘splode

The sc is kinda complicated actually. In Old English it could be pronounced sh or maaaybe hsy (not everyone can pronounce that last one). In Old Norse, it could be more sk, but I’m not sure

The accented ý could more sound like a German ü than an i (again, not everyone can pronounce the former). Tho modern Icelandic apparently prefers the i sound. The accent generally means the sound is stretched out a bit

The ð is identical (functionally identical anyway) to a hard th like in ‘tho’ and ‘breathe’. Unless that’s what you were going for with dh. In which case ignore me

Of course, it’s your name, so it’s pronounced however you say it is. I’m just being stupid. Sorry 🙂

@Tessa: Timmark (I like Timmark because of the ironic similarity to ‘Tiamat’) has pasted the exact same screed on several forums now. I know that someone has made the exact same rebuttals you have, and they apparently have not phased him.

Apologies if you were the one to rebut him last time, and are posting the rebuttals for the benefit of everyone else. If so, than the point totally flew over my head 😉

@Schildfreja: Thanks for the explanation. If anyone on this site desers a moniker meaning ‘free from hate’, it’s you. Especially given the extreme tolerance and patience you’ve shown, both with the trolls and with unintentional a-holes (like myself). I was going to suggest something like ‘engager of trolls’, but yours is much more erudite.

@sevenofmine: Isn’t there a story where Solomon arbitrates between two women claiming the same child by offering to hack the child in two, and gives the child to the woman who would rather give the child up than see the child killed? Seems MRA’s should review that story. I’d post the reference, but I’m much more familiar with the New Testament than the Old.

@numerobis: I vaguely recall a theory from my East Asia history classes in Undergrad regarding the tendency of the backwater to become the new center. So, as Qin was the backwater in the Zhou times, Qin later conqured Northern China to form the first Chinese empire, then southern China (which was considered the backwater) wound up conquring northern China at the end of the three kingdom’s era, etc.

In a way, it applies to Western history as well: Greece, Rome, Britain, and the US were all considered half-barbarian backwaters by their predecessors.

Sorry if that was too much of a teal deer.

Thank you Axe, I knew I was getting it wrong. I’m just muckin’ around here, so I hope no one takes me as an authority on any of that.

Scildfreja Púoaslaga? :3 a.k.a Scildfreja Trollslayer?

As for why I picked Unnýðnes, it’s more of a reminder to myself that I need to keep anger from controlling my reactions. I was getting a bit worked up!

@ joekster

Yep, one woman had accidentally smothered her own child in her sleep and attempted to switch her dead baby for the other woman’s living one. When they end up in front of Solomon he offers to cut the child in half and that child’s real mother yells for him to give the child to the other woman as long as he’s not harmed. The other woman is fine with cutting the child in two and Solomon infers that the baby’s real mother is the one who was willing to give him up to keep him safe.

joekster:

@Tessa: Timmark (I like Timmark because of the ironic similarity to ‘Tiamat’) has pasted the exact same screed on several forums now. I know that someone has made the exact same rebuttals you have, and they apparently have not phased him.

Apologies if you were the one to rebut him last time, and are posting the rebuttals for the benefit of everyone else. If so, than the point totally flew over my head 😉

Eh, the thingie I responded to was a response to somebody else responding to his longer angry copypasta. I figured since he responded once, he wasn’t a drive by at least. *shrug* And even if they aren’t phased, I never liked leaving stupid stuff like that unchallenged because too often “ignoring” something sends a message to the jerks that they’ll never be challenged, and sends a message to onlookers that the jerks are the unchallenged defaults. Not that that’s a problem here, but in general.

@Scildfreja
Oh, don’t take me as an authority either. Up til now, I’d been pronouncing it HSYILT-fray-uh (you’re absolutely right about the syllable stress, btw!), so we’re both almost definitely wrong 😀

@schildfreja: if you put them together, would you get ‘slayer of trolls without hatred’? Because that is exactly what you do here.

@Tessa: Fair enough. And I may have been out of line to suggest you were wasting your time. Another thing my PD liked to say was, ‘throw enough mud at the wall, and some of it will stick’. (not that anything you said was ‘mud’. He was referring to the educational value of repetition).

Penny Psmith,
Yes, I think you’re right – I’d forgotten a lot of stuff was translated from Arabic into vernaculars, then retranslated into Latin! And I’ve read that some of the Greek material was first translated into Syriac, then retranslated into Arabic – so by the time they were available in Latin, some Greek items might have been translated four times! I wonder how much of the original sense survived.

sevenofmine,

The oh-so-wise Solomon “bisect-the-baby” story has always struck me as daft. Is it really psychologically credible that the non-mother would say “OK, deal, cut it in half”?

@ Nick G

Yeah not really. Why would she switch the babies if she was then going to be willing to let the other baby be killed? Surely the point of switching them is to still have an actual living baby? Or at least to not be thought of as a murderer? Agreeing to slice the child in half seems…counterproductive to any conceivable goal she might have had, even apart from being a fundamental failure of empathy.

@7ofmine and NickG
I dunno. I mean, you’re right. It seems completely out of left field to want half a child. At the same time, this woman had just killed her son and kidnapped a little boy. I can’t exactly bring myself to assume complete rationality or emotional stability on her part. ‘Postpartum Depression’ exists, ‘Münchhausen by Proxy’ exists, etc. Not internet diagnosing a biblical character, but, while it’s an odd course of action she takes, perhaps it’s not entirely unbelievable…

@ axe, 7 & nick

Isn’t it just a case that the woman in the story is one of those people who, if they can’t have something then they’re content so long as someone else can’t have it either,

So her view is ideally she’d like a replacement child but failing that she’ll be satisfied if someone else loses their child.

That’s not an uncommon mindset even today.

@alan, ax, 7, nick: I dug out the reference, in case anyone finds it useful (there is a discouragingly high correlation between people who take the OT seriously and MRA’s). It’s 1Kings, chapter 3, vs 16-28.

Of note, my translation has the dead child’s mother saying, ‘Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!’ Which supports Alan’s interpretation.

Also, my translation states the women were ‘prostitutes’ who were ‘living together’. Not sure what bearing the first has, but the second fact indicates that it wasn’t just about both women wanting a son.

Okay, checked: it does say they’re prostitutes (נשים זונות), which was a detail I didn’t remember. And living together in the technical sense of the term – literally, it says they were “sitting / residing in one house” (יושבות בבית אחד).

Personally, I do take the OT seriously, but not in a religious sense (I’m an atheist), more as a cultural document that can teach us a lot about things like the beliefs and opinions, and of course the language, at the time(s) it was written. Also some history, mostly when correlated against other documents and archaeological finds etc. from the area. Also, it has some cool and/or weird stories. It’s a fascinating text and I wish more people were more familiar with it.

@penny psmith: thanks for the translation. I attempted to take Ancient Greek in undergrad (Hebrew was not offered) and the class was cancelled for lack of interest. Of course, that looks like Hebrew characters above, so Ancient Greek wouldn’t help me either 😉

I’m sort of the inverse of you where the scriptures are concerned: I’m Christian, but view the scriptures as historical source material (I’m one of those ‘the Word became flesh, not paper and ink’). I find it gives me a much more flexible and resilient faith.

Hebrew indeed, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to read it. 🙂

The neat thing about the way Hebrew wad “revived” (actually more complicated than that) on the basis of Biblical Hebrew(s) is that I can pick up a bible (OT, that is) and just read. I’m not saying I’d get everything right, because there are some obsolete words and structures etc., but it’s not like, for example, the Old English – Modern English (or even Middle English – Modern English) situation. More like reading a book from the 18th century or so, like Swift or Defoe or Sterne, would be for a standard English speaker, hard but not impossible.

On the OP: if these dudes are THAT traumatized by their circumcisions, why don’t they just get some friggin foreskin reconstruction surgery then? I’m guessing that recreating a small flap of skin is easier and cheaper than the average nose job, so it should be well within their budgets. Wouldn’t it?

On the subject of Pokemon GO: has anyone studied the assessment tool the latest upgrade provided players to see how useful it is for decided which ‘mons to trade in, and which to keep? I’m about 50 shy of the hard limit for how many ‘mons I can keep, and could use an extra tool for deciding which I should keep and which I shouldn’t. I’m already using an IV calculator I was linked to from Reddit, but if the in-game tool is useful too, I can use it to help decide, too.

My thanks in advance for anyone willing to help here.

I’m guessing the enervation is difficult or impossible to restore.

That is not what makes these pillocks the unmitigated tossers that they are, of course!

(Not that it has anything to do with these mouldy-brained wazzocks in the OP, but I do think the non-medically-essential snipping of bits off people who are too young to give informed consent and whose bodily autonomy is thus knackered in the ‘nads is Not a Good Idea. If people want to modify their own genitals for non-medical reasons, they should be capable of consenting to it themselves).

Re: Pokemon go: I have used the assessment tool, and it’s mostly useful for working out how balanced your critters stats are. The rating it gives seems to be based on CP, which you can just look at.

TRIGGER WARNING: genital mutilation, including female circumcision.

The male foreskin does have some sensory nerves in it, but those nerves are not terribly important for sexual stimulation. The ones that are important are in the glans penis, the fleshy bit covered by the foreskin. Individuals who are circumcised (like myself, btw, as when I was born we thought there was a health benefit to it) have much less sensitive glans secondary to overstimulation. Even if a new foreskin was stitched in, it would take awhile for the glans to fully recover sensation, if it ever did. That said, the glans is still excitable in circumcised men, and there are plenty of other ways to stimulate the male anatomy, so it’s overall not a huge deal, although I agree with the whole, ‘taking bits off of individuals who cannot consent is bad’ argument.

Female circumcision is a totally different matter. Although there is a bit of female anatomy (called the hood of the clitoris) that is roughly equivalent to the male foreskin, it is small enough that ‘female circumcision’ almost always amputates e clitoris as well, which is the female equivalent of the glans penis. So, a woman who has undergone this procedure has a significantly impaired ability to enjoy sex,, but still has a normal sex drive. Which is why female circumcision is considered genital mutilation (and condemned by every US medical society that has an opinion on it), while male circumcision is a bit more ambivalent from the ethical perspective.

Also, my translation states the women were ‘prostitutes’ who were ‘living together’. Not sure what bearing the first has, but the …

I think them being prostitutes is meant to explain why they would be living on their own and pregnant and why there would be no husbands available to speak on their behalf.

@sevenofmine: Hm, that explanation makes as much sense as anything I can come up with. It may also explain the competitiveness the one woman shows to the other, if the two women think of themselves as competing colleagues rather than room-mates.

Though, I may be making a mistake in impressing 20th century US culture norms on ancient Israel.

One question: In Mosaic law, were women permitted to represent themselves if they did have a male relative to speak for them?

@ jokester

In Mosaic law, were women permitted to represent themselves if they did have a male relative to speak for them?

Although we know a bit about substantive Jewish law, it’s a bit more nebulous on the procedural stuff. The earliest account is from Josephus, so that’s obviously a long time after the OT times. However it’s probably reasonably safe to assume that, being a consevative and traditional society, things hadn’t changed too much.

The Jewish court was called the Sanhedrin (there were various tiers, bit like we have now). Representatives were specifically prohibited so no lawyers (boo) or people speaking on another’s behalf. All cases were initiated by a complainant witness (so very similar to ancient Roman law and indeed English law until medieval times) ‘the state’ wasn’t a party as such. So even crimes against the ‘public’ would be initiated by an individual.

The procedure was that the accusing witness would give evidence first and call any other witnesses, then the accused would have their say and call any witnesses they had. Then the tribunal would decide.

That does seem to tally with the Solomon story. The women there were clearly appearing on their own behalves.

One question: In Mosaic law, were women permitted to represent themselves if they did have a male relative to speak for them?

The Torah does not prohibit women from appearing in court – which is a theme that continues in Mishna and Talmud. Much like in the Greco-Roman world, a woman testifying or bringing / defending a lawsuit would have been scandalous and a reason for much muttering, but not actually a break with then current laws.

Everyone’s done talking about post apopaloptic (h/t LaShawn Beyond) survival skills but all y’all who are knitters and seamstresses, what are you going to do when the yarn/fabric runs out?
I can spin. I can teach others to spin. I know the rudiments of flax processing. I can go from sheep to garment. I can weave. I can build spindles and put them in the hands of children and old folks so we never run out of thread. I can build a rudimentary loom and make fabric on it.

re: survival skills

I know the art of fractional distillation, and can put together a rig for same. This means ardent spirits (for medicinal, trade, and recreational purposes), fuel (I know how to make diesel from assorted seeds and nuts), and aids in various other things. I can refine morphine and aspirin (need a little trial and error there). I can make gunpowder, serpentine or smokeless (I wouldn’t want to be the one firing a gun loaded with my single-base, but I can make it). Also I know how to make steam, wind, and hydro generators given enough salvage.

@dalilama: that’s fantastic. We can work together. I know quite a few other drugs we can refine from plants, such as atropine (good for nausea, and some forms of heart disease) from belladonna, colchicine (an anti-inflammatory really good for gout) from death caps, and digoxin (another heart failure med) from fox glove. I also know how to appropriately dose all of those (there’s a reason those have all been used as poisons), and if the apocalypse gives me a few days warning, I can look up a bunch of other ones as well.

Turns out much of our pharmacopeia started with the old herbal remedies. We just isolated them, figured out which part was doing the work, and tinkered with them to cut down on the side effects. But, in a pinch…

Also, penicillin from the correct yeast. Although, civilization will have to be dead for about a decade before penicillin is useful for anything but syphilis and strep pneumonia again.

There’s a bit in the Bible somewhere (I can’t remember where and Google isn’t helping) which lists all the horrors which will befall a society which is collapsing into depravity and wickedness, and one of them is “women will take their husbands at the law.”

When I was younger and read the Bible, I always read this as “women will sue their husbands”, which seems to indicate that a) it was possible under Old Testamental customary law, and b) it was the worst thing that the prophet could think of.

Dalillama, you are the most useful survivor of them all.

I think that if we work together we might be able to build an AC circuit which could run mains voltages, allowing us to run electrical appliances. Just because the world has ended doesn’t mean that we can’t have vaccuum cleaners and Xboxes.

@EJ: that definitely sounds OT.

Anyhow, just to drag the thread more off topic: in undergrad, I took a history of medicine course for fun, and the prof said that prior to WWI, the German company Bayer had patented the process of refining salicylate from willow bark and turning it into aspirin, but that the treaty of Versailles forced Bauer to give up the patent as a punitive measure against Germany. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

@ jokester

Not quite, but Bauer did lose exclusive rights to the name Aspirin through a combination of lax international copyright enforcement, certain laws about trading with the enemy and a stich up with the glorious name of The Great Phenol Plot. But unless and until Horrible Histories covers this that’s the extent of my knowledge.

What I do know though is the bacteria in modern biotic yoghurts are all cultivated originally from the poo of a German soldier (who fascinated doctors because he seemed immune to dysentery)

What I do know though is the bacteria in modern biotic yoghurts are all cultivated originally from the poo of a German soldier (who fascinated doctors because he seemed immune to dysentery)

What?!

Is biotic the same as probiotic?

Is this true in Europe or worldwide?

Who is this guy?

This is too weird.

The story of Solomon’s judgment has infuriated me for a long time.

IIRC, I was taught in Sunday school that the women were two of Solomon’s concubines. They lived together along with lots and lots of other concubines.

The story is enraging because how many women will say, Yeah, cut that baby in half?

And Solomon, the wise one, steps in between two squabbling women with his effin’ brilliant solution — brilliant on some other planet, maybe.

A few years ago, I decided that the story, in addition to extolling Solomon’s wisdom, must also represent women’s role and status in that time and in that place. Better a dead son than no son!

@ Kat

*Warning for icky (yet fascinating) content*

Yeah, I learned this from the best episode of Women’s Hour ever (I don’t listen as part of my pro feminism, I just like Radio 4 generally).

It started as a feature about stool transplants. It transpires that sometimes after people undergo certain treatment, epspecially involving large amounts of antibiotics, it kills off all their intestinal bacteria. Now as it happens, your appendix does have a use, that’s where the reserve store of gut fauna live. However sometimes it needs a bit of a boost. So you find a compatible donor who provides faeces, and that’s inserted back into you to provide a new colony of bacteria.

And that led on to the bit about those posh yoghurt drinks and where they come from. Can’t remember the chap’s name unfortunately, but as mentioned, it was spotted that he never came down with dysentery or any related illnesses even when everyone else did. So they did tests on him and it turned out he had some mutant strain of gut bacteria that was particularly resilient so they harvested his poo and cultivated the bacteria to give to troops. And later on that strain was used commercially.

I love history!

@Kat, Alan: yep, it’s called a stool transplant, and it’s used as a last ditch treatment for Clostridium difficile infections (a particularly nasty bacteria that is normally kept in check by the normal colonic flora, but takes over when the other flora is wiped out, usually by antibiotics).

Re the appendix, we’re still trying to figure out what it’s really good for. The theory Alan provided is currently the most plausible, although it also appears to play a role in immune regulation. At least, people who get their appendix out in their first few years are at markedly increased risk for colonic autoimmune diseases, notably ulcerative colitis.

@ jokester

used as a last ditch

It certainly would be whilst I had breath in my body.

I’ve checked my donor card and that isn’t mentioned. I wonder if there’s a separate register like with bone marrow?

(Ooh, do you get a sticker, like with blood?)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.