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Red Pill director Cassie Jaye is accusing me of sending “bullying emails.” Here are the emails. Decide for yourself.

Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad
Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad

I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.

Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.

It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.

So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.

And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that

David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.

(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)

Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.

So let’s take a look at them, shall we?

I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.

In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why

Cassie,

We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.

But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.

It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.

It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.

I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.

I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.

I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:

Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.

Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that

Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.

I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.

I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.

And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.

I ended with this:

You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.

And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.

I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.

In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.

I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.

After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.

But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.

So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.

Here’s the whole thing:

David Futrelle <dfutrelle@gmail.com> Oct 30 (13 days ago) to Cassie Hi, Cassie, As you know, I am deeply disappointed by your apparent embrace of some of the internet's most toxic individuals, and that I think that you have compromised the integrity of your fllm by taking money from them. But there was no "threat" to you in my open letter to you, the claims of Elam and his fans notwithstanding. I do think you will come to regret your embrace of these people, in part because this is, as I explained in the open letter, a violation of your own stated principles, but also because these people are bullies with a habit of turning on their former allies, and if you don't give them the deeply biased film that they expect, they may turn on you, and you may become a target of harassment -- from them, not me. My question: Will Mike Cernovich be an Associate Producer on your film? As you know, he says he is, and since you Tweeted his post saying this, I can only assume this is true. But I wanted to confirm this with you.

She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.

I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.

Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.

Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter.  Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the  “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.

Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.

I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.

I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.

NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.

 

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kazei5
6 years ago

This is turning into one serious mess. I mean, I know there are quislings in every hate group, but this kind of propaganda we can do without.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
6 years ago

Oh Christ alive. She hasn’t just drunk the MRA Kool-Aid, she’s marinated herself in it.

Best wishes, hugs and prayers for you, David. We’re behind you in this shitstorm – which seems to be calculated, tbh. First Barnes and Elam, then JB, now Cassie. YOU WILL PULL THROUGH.

dhag85
6 years ago

Wow.

I’ve been calling her future Honey Badger Cassie Jaye. I think it’s time to call her just Honey Badger Cassie Jaye now.

m
m
6 years ago

A lot of people will watch that movie. Your story is coming to an end.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
6 years ago

(Also going to donate, an idea that another commenter first came up with. Because a) you deserve it and b) nothing infuriates MRAs more than their smear campaigns resulting in more funds! Haha.)

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
6 years ago

@m
What’s that supposed to mean?

Fnoicby
Fnoicby
6 years ago

Seconding sonnysombrera, this is kinda looking like a coordinated smear campaign against David. An attempt to portray him as a doxxer, threatener and harasser of MRAs.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
6 years ago

Any chance Jaye keeps mentioning David’s “attacks” on her as a cynical ploy to get more donations from her new base?

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

In that video, Jaye said she originally interviewed only MRAs but then later on decided to include feminists. Interesting how her original plan was to make a completely one-sided documentary about her journey to the dark side.

I thought Paul Elam & Co. swore up and down that they aren’t red pillers? Now suddenly TRP and MRA are synonymous?

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
6 years ago

Any chance Jaye keeps mentioning David’s “attacks” on her as a cynical ploy to get more donations from her new base?

False flag! Professional victimhood! She’s making it all up to get more money!

I don’t know whether to laugh or grimace at the joke I just made…

FifthInterval
6 years ago

SpecialFFrog – well, that would imply that the MRA crowd are reliably gullible and simpleminded. That certainly couldn’t be true, could it?

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
6 years ago

@FifthInterval: well, I would say that MRAs show very little inclination to try to compensate for confirmation bias.

genderequalitybatman
6 years ago

The irony of a honey badger making false accusations of Internet harassment…

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
6 years ago

@m

A lot of people will watch that movie. Your story is coming to an end.

Lol. Just like the Sarkeesian Effect, huh? The crushing death-blow to feminists! I’ll watch this one too.

http://media.giphy.com/media/l41lXPwHWohc2kxGg/giphy.gif

mewfington
mewfington
6 years ago

so cassie jaye wound up being a despicable, manipulative piece of shit, too. what a fucking surprise. of course she didn’t continue the correspondence. there’s no out being given; no way to keep the delusion going. it pays more dividends to participate in an interview and flat-out lie to an audience that’s entirely unwilling to fact-check the garbage she’s spewing.

ultimatezer0
ultimatezer0
6 years ago

Hoooold on.

https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/11/02/cassie-jaye-tells-vocativ-she-was-stalked-by-an-mra-she-interviewed-for-her-red-pill-doc/

Did she even call that harassment?

At this point my theory is that the MRA kool-aid runs in her veins.

vanir85
6 years ago

A lot of people will watch that movie. Your story is coming to an end.

-m

Yes. I’m sure this one-sided antifeminist propaganda piece will be just devestating. Feminism and equality will officially be over, and the world will belong once again to misogynists and patriarchs.

Or, you know… *not*.

bluecatbabe
bluecatbabe
6 years ago

Blimey. Yes, this begins to look like a concerted campaign.

Stay well, David and may your detractors dance barefoot in a ballroom of lego pieces to the worst music in the world.

@m whoever you are (are your other initials R and A, by any chance?) in the context of a post about threats, “Your story is coming to an end” is QUITE a threatening to say.

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

m:

A lot of people will watch that movie. Your story is coming to an end.

How do you think that will work, m? Be specific!

Let’s paint the rosiest possible picture for how this will play out, from the MRM viewpoint:

The film is completed, and portrays the MRM very positively. It finds a large audience of people who are not already familiar with the MRM. It wins an award at Cannes (“best use of keyboard shortcuts”)! Many of the audience, fired up with enthusiasm about men’s rights, go on to read more about it, and possibly to organise. What happens next?

Well, one thing which might happen next is that some of those people – the non-toxic ones – go on to make a real contribution to men’s rights. You know, the sort of things which AVFM doesn’t bother to do, because they’re hard work and not simply shit-stirring? This could be a good thing!

One thing is definitely not going to happen as a result of this film, though. Hate-filled, abusive misogynists are not going to disappear from the Internet (in fact, I’d expect an uptick in such activity). So there will continue to be a need for sites such as this one, tracking and mocking online misogyny. WHTM would be busier than ever.

I don’t think the rosy scenario above is very likely, however. Chances are the film will reach a rather small audience, most of whom will already be familiar with the MRM, and it will change few minds. It will spark a fair bit of argument for a while, be forgotten, and then things will continue as before.

vanir85
6 years ago

this shitstorm – which seems to be calculated, tbh. First Barnes and Elam, then JB, now Cassie.

-sunnysomrera

Possibly. But I’m sceptical to calling conspiracy. I think it likely just started with one thing – and then the sharks (thought they) smelled blood.

Pitching in on your support for David, tho. I hope he doesn’t let this get to him. We’ve always known these are terrible people, but *damn* this is messed up.

Kale
Kale
6 years ago

Yet another example of people who don’t seem to understand what bullying and harassment truly is… This is a serious issue. It reminds me a lot of how hater gate considered news articles bullying while seeing real harassment as “just trying to have a conversation”.

darkstatistic
darkstatistic
6 years ago

What is that saying? Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence?

I don’t know if she’s secretly and dishonestly an anti-feminist or just really bad at her job. Either way, she’s setting herself up, as Dave says, to really damage her reputation.

Not that I especially care, mind you. I just don’t know if I agree with the general consensus of her being malicious. She fell for that phony Cannes thing, after all.

P.c
P.c
6 years ago

Does anyone else notice how positive the press has been towards this movie and have been following the narrative of “feminists want to destroy this movie because it’s fair and balanced”. I’m not talking about breitbart either. Also Cassie jaye claims people in the industry wanted to make this movie but were afraid of career suicide. I’m not sure this’ll be as easy to shrug off as The Sarkeesian Effect

guest
guest
6 years ago

Agreed re donations–this is an excellent opportunity to show tangible support for what David is doing, and what he’s going through.

pkayden
pkayden
6 years ago

Ms. Jaye has made a clear decision to support MRAs (and to take money from them when making a “documentary” about them. She’ll have to live with herself for picking the wrong side. It’s sad that a woman has little or no empathy for other women (and men) who have been subjected to MRA harassment and is now making up lies about a prominent feminist man. Sigh.

P.S. I applaud David for being so vigilant about documenting sexism and misogyny on this website. It must be so exhausting.

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