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Cassie Jaye tells Vocativ she was stalked by an MRA she interviewed for her Red Pill doc

The story of Cassie Jaye and her Red Pill documentary gets curiouser and curiouser. In an interview with Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ she admits that she’s actually a bit scared of the MRAs whose cause she now seems to be championing.

As Clark-Flory puts it:

It turns out Jaye understands fear of MRAs. “I luckily moved recently,” she said toward the end of our nearly three-hour-long conversation, explaining that some of the men she interviewed had her home address. “I was really glad to move.”

Indeed, Jaye told Clark-Flory that during the course of her interviews one of her subjects evidently became smitten with her, and, in classic MRA style, treated her to numerous late-night phone calls of an apparently amorous nature.

On nearly a dozen occasions, she received calls in the middle of the night from one of her MRA subjects. (There were multiple emails, too.) Jaye implied that her repeat caller had on the mind what one might charitably call romance … .

She acknowledges to Clark-Flory that with her film “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates,” she worries a little bit about what they might do if her final product is not to their liking.

“I think any bad seeds would probably want to see the film first before taking me down,” she said with a laugh. What if they do see the film and view it as unfavorable, though? “I guess I could go into hiding,” Jaye said.

But she apparently isn’t too worried that her new MRA fans and financial backers won’t like her film.

“Do I want to have any kind of allegiance to them to make sure I’m not harmed in the end?” She paused, the question lingering, and then explained that her video diaries show her reacting negatively to the MRAs, but that those clips were part of her early “evolution” on the subject. “I think that protects me from people wanting to attack what I said then,” she said.

The implication seemingly being that the position she ultimately came to would not make MRAs angry with her. “I think it’ll be OK,” she said.

You can read the full piece here, and I really suggest that you do. Because WTF.

In related news, the Red Pill lawyer and juice salesman who apparently bought himself an Associate Producer credit for The Red Pill with a $10,000 donation is bragging that he “cuckolded” Seth Rogan … on Twitter. By which I mean not that he’s boasting about this on Twitter, but that he thinks he actually did the cuckolding on Twitter.

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Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Autosoma — I hope she’s more reasonable to discuss things with in the morning, sleep and sobering up tend to have that affect. It’s what, 1 am there? Get some sleep, pray if that’s your thing, and stay safe. And don’t be as daft as my brother’s British not-girlfriend, pneumonia and 104° fever mean don’t tell your doctor you’re going home to work tomorrow — she too has a daughter, and y’all gotta take care of yourselves and your kids, sometimes everyone else can go fuck themselves.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@autosoma
I’m glad that she’s sleeping it off now, but don’t hesitate to make that call if it escalates again. One problem with abusive behavior is that it tends to slowly increase in severity and the next increment always seems like not much more than where you already have been, so it’s easy to ignore. Don’t ignore it anymore. It sounds serious enough that action needs to be taken to protect you and your kids.

I’m really sorry that you have to go through this without a support network. I do think you should keep looking into your synagogue (sp?) to see what help they can provide. And keep talking to us to keep yourself grounded in reality, if it’s helping. It’s not MRA behavior to want distance from your wife for extremely fucking valid reasons, and I doubt anyone here will accuse you of such.

Tracy
Tracy
6 years ago

@mrex

In short, when your ex was banging on your door accusing you of something you didn’t do, did you;

1. Kindly but firmly assert your own reality that it wasn’t you? Good.
2. Agree with him? Unhealthy, yuck yuck boundaries, yuck yuck.
3. Imply, or outright tell him that he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about because he’s a drunk? Fuck you.

4. Ignore him completely, because I had drawn firm boundaries that included me not responding to him if he was under the influence, or after a certain time of night. This was so, so hard to do and took practice, but I finally got the hang of it. Killed me inside at first.

And for the record, he didn’t know what the fuck he was talking about because his thinking was very, very impaired. His perceptions were very real to him, sure, until the next day when he felt like a complete asshole because he realized his perceptions were incorrect.

No need for the pre-emptive ‘fuck you’ that went along with your #3. Jeez. Though there were several times when I outright told him he didn’t know what he was talking about (“I’m fine to drive”) because he was drunk (not “a drunk”, but drunk). Wrong of me? Shouldn’t have taken his keys away? Was I undermining his right to his perception of reality?

And I understand the whole ‘you don’t get to tell someone else what their reality is’ (and agree that in certain circumstances, attempting to do so is not only pointless, but can be hurtful/mean), but I don’t see your point here in this situation, unless its a roundabout way of saying ‘you can’t change her behaviour, only your own’, which would have been far clearer.

This entire blog is mocking certain people for their skewed personal ‘reality’, isn’t it?

Tracy
Tracy
6 years ago

@autosoma

it really pisses me off, she’s staggering and ranging at me, the girls are in the next room worked up and stroppy and its all my fault.

Nope, not your fault. And exactly what @kupo said: It’s not MRA behavior to want distance from your wife for extremely fucking valid reasons, and I doubt anyone here will accuse you of such.

I hope you can get support and help from people in your synagogue. When I was going through this with my husband, I got a lot of help from people online here:

http://alcoholism.about.com/mpchat.htm

There is a room for friends and family. It’s been awhile so not sure how active they are, but well worth having a look – talking to people online (while at work, bad me!) literally kept me able to get up in the morning and get through my day.

I also tried al-anon and, while it wasn’t a fit for me personally, others have found it helpful. Any idea if there are groups, or ones like it, in your area?

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Tracy — “you don’t know what you are talking about (because) you’re drunk” doesn’t seem controversial to me. It’s why drunk dialing is a term! Yes, I’m sure it’s very true for you, and I was sure it was a good idea to call my fuckbuddy in the middle of the night, doesn’t mean it was objectively a good idea!

Saying someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about because they are a drunk is an actual ad hominem, saying a drunk person does not know what they are talking about at the time of being currently drunk? Yeah, that’s a feature of being drunk. Sometimes it’s fucking hilarious, other times you’re attempting to walk home and your roommate thinks it’s a good idea to sing the chorus of bye bye miss American pie on a loop, sometimes it’s “I have literally no idea how you came to that conclusion, so fuck off”.

mrex — I really don’t understand your problem with telling someone who is presently drunk that wtf they’re saying only makes sense to them cuz they’re drunk. I’m not seeing the difference between that and saying someone is wrong if they’re responding to half of a thing they missed the other half of.

Autosoma — listen to kupo, kupo is a smart one.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

@autosoma
I’m so sorry that it’s gotten so bad. I’m especially sorry for the kids. Please keep looking for help. It’s the only way. The synagogue sounds great. A government agency. A nongovernment agency. Alcoholics Anonymous. The social worker you already spoke with. Suicide prevention hotline (you don’t have to be suicidal).

You don’t know what’s out there until you look. When I went through trouble with a live-in boyfriend, who turned on me once we had moved in together, I reached out to a hotline and then to nongovernment agencies. They understood and they helped me. I am so grateful to them.

Yes, the kids are going through a rough patch. But when you look for help, you are passing on some very, very important lessons about resilience and belief in yourself and your family.

Hang in there. Stay strong. You’ve come a very long way. Remember to keep eating, sleeping, and exercising (even if it’s just a daily walk around the block with your girls). And don’t stop looking until you get good help with what’s happening right now.

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

@autosoma – I’m pissed for you and hope that your synagogue steps up.
I’m not religious, but isn’t that half the frikkin’ purpose of religious communities – support in times of trouble?

And kupo’s exactly right – distancing yourself from toxic behavior isn’t MRA behavior, it’s self preservation.

Kat is, too – take care. It’s easy to run yourself ragged during a time like this. You don’t eat right, don’t sleep well, get overwhelmed, and it gets harder to perceive clearly and make good decisions.

@Argenti Aertheri – You might be surprised. In the US, it can vary widely by state. At least one defines “parental kidnapping” as “taking a child or children for more than 24 hours with the intent to conceal”. Since I don’t know UK law, I thought it best to err on the side of caution.

mrex
mrex
6 years ago

@auto

“but there are a lot of items in the house that she got today that she’s telling me she hasn’t got, new phone, birthday presents, clothes. weird.”

It’s bad news. Look into how you can legally protect yourself financially. Don’t feel bad about covering your ass. Has she been
financially abusive
in the past?

Since multiple people seem to be STILL misunderstanding me let me repeat; whether she’s correct, honestly mistaken, or purposely gaslighting, it is *not healthy* to internalize, without thought, whatever she says. I believe a lot of people are suspicious of a DARVO. It’s very reasonable to be suspicious, and it’s getting even more reasonable as her behavior deteriorates. IMO DARVO’s have two goals; to either get you to internalize her bs so that you remain compliant, or to get you upset so that she can paint you as the unreasonable, angry male. Proxy abuse is real; it will be best for you to take a page from her book and engage in some impression management. You don’t want to appear defensive and unreasonable, which means that you will, yes, have to be willing to admit to anywhere that your behavior *was* wrong, where you did contribute to the situation. If she’s an abuser, true to form, she will never be happy with what you do. Don’t manipulate the situation, but let her take the figerative rope and hang herself with it.

Sorry to hear that your support network isn’t there for you. Could any of your children’s friends mothers pick them up after school? Do you have any kindly, older, retired neighbors that raised kids and you are familiar enough with? How about the guys at work? You said many are sexist, they may be sympathetic to a good ex wife sob story, so mack it up.Any have stay at home wives, retired parents, work opposite shifts than you, etc? Any responsible teenagers on your street looking to make a few bucks? Any of your children’s friends have older siblings that they know and would be responsible enough to pick them up? How about the social worker? Did she have a list of after school programs or day cares? Does the school have a list? Try your family even if you think they won’t support you. Make sure you mention the fiasco with missing picking up the girls. Even if they don’t support you, there’s a chance that they’ll be willing to take help simply out of duty for your children.

Is your family mad at *you* for her drunk dials or are they mad at *her*? I ask because I’m wondering if it’s possible that they’re only mad at you out of disgust at *her* behavior and will be pleased as punch once they realize that you two are no longer an item.

Going through my separation was literally one of the worse periods of my life. It was like valentine’s day when single times 1000 because every where I looked, I saw happy families. I was miserable in the relationship, but it really sucked to mourn the loss of what I had dreamed it would be. It really is a loss much like the death of someone close. Take care of yourself.

@Argenti

” I really don’t understand your problem with telling someone who is presently drunk that wtf they’re saying only makes sense to them cuz they’re drunk

Because it’s basing someone’s wrongness/rightness on a feature of themselves and not on the facts of the situation? If someone’s wrong, it’s because they’re wrong, not because they’re drunk. The only reason why you would bring it up is to bully the other person into agreeing.

Look, I’ll talk more about this later; my migraine’s worsened to the point that I’m struggling to read and type.

autosoma
6 years ago

well after last night episodes and a long chat with the social worker and her parents, we’re all going to work together for the good of the children.

Now this trees been shaken some really rotten apples have fallen out.

thank you all for your advice and help. on the subject if gaslighting I think I’ve come to the conclusion of not paying attention to it. Her reality, my reality belong to each if us and as I can’t climb into her head to really see what’s there, then let’s not make a sobg and dsbce of it as it just muddies the waters. there are bigger things at stake

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

Again, take care autosoma.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Good luck and take care of yourself, autosoma.

The social worker is there to help you (to the best of their abilities) and carelines and suicide lines are good people to talk to because they’ll let you talk until you figure things out… and if they hear anything super concerning (like imminent danger to you/kids/wife), they generally have the training to recognize it and notify the appropriate peeps.

Wishing you and the kidlets the best.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Thanks for keeping us updated autosoma, wishing you and yours the best.

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