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Red Pill director Cassie Jaye is accusing me of sending “bullying emails.” Here are the emails. Decide for yourself.

Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad
Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad

I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.

Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.

It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.

So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.

And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that

David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.

(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)

Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.

So let’s take a look at them, shall we?

I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.

In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why

Cassie,

We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.

But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.

It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.

It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.

I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.

I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.

I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:

Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.

Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that

Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.

I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.

I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.

And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.

I ended with this:

You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.

And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.

I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.

In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.

I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.

After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.

But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.

So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.

Here’s the whole thing:

David Futrelle <dfutrelle@gmail.com> Oct 30 (13 days ago) to Cassie Hi, Cassie, As you know, I am deeply disappointed by your apparent embrace of some of the internet's most toxic individuals, and that I think that you have compromised the integrity of your fllm by taking money from them. But there was no "threat" to you in my open letter to you, the claims of Elam and his fans notwithstanding. I do think you will come to regret your embrace of these people, in part because this is, as I explained in the open letter, a violation of your own stated principles, but also because these people are bullies with a habit of turning on their former allies, and if you don't give them the deeply biased film that they expect, they may turn on you, and you may become a target of harassment -- from them, not me. My question: Will Mike Cernovich be an Associate Producer on your film? As you know, he says he is, and since you Tweeted his post saying this, I can only assume this is true. But I wanted to confirm this with you.

She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.

I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.

Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.

Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter.  Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the  “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.

Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.

I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.

I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.

NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.

 

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SYFOB
6 years ago

It kinda seems the whole world is transmogrifying into Bizzaro-land. I comment as well on some of the same cultural issues on my site and I’m noticing there being a whole lot of rage going on. Unfortunately this little corner of the universe is just a symptom of a greater problem.

The people you cover often straddle the line between legitimacy and lunacy, so many of these folks are connected to far-right ideologies, paranoid conspiracy theories and so much other loony bullshit that I fear for your safety David. After the direct threats and harassment you’ve been subjected to to then have the very same people and their allies say you are the harasser, you must be a pretty strong person to keep your sanity.

Good luck, and please be careful.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

A two hour interview? That’s presumably as long, if not longer, than the movie itself will be. What is with the manosphere’s complete inability to do anything concisely?

It’s just bad strategy. From doing political work in the past, I know one of the most important things is to keep it short and simple. They are never going to win people to their side in droves with rambling posts and videos. Of course, that suits me fine!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

M,
Why do you people always think some stupid video is going to strike down feminism for good and all. Our movement has been around for a very long time and we aren’t going anywhere.

Deal with it.

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
6 years ago

I’m mostly a lurker, but this campaign against you is PISSING ME THE HELL OFF.

These fake tough guys (yeah, JudgyBitch and Barnes I mean you both) need to slither back under their rocks.

Pooh friend-zoned Christopher Robin
Pooh friend-zoned Christopher Robin
6 years ago

I’d enjoy a documentary about the various people who have tapped into the MRA rage to make money. Or a Howcast, whichever.

dhag85
6 years ago

What’s a self-described feminist doing hanging out with Sargon anyway? Did she forget she pretended to be a feminist for a while?

eyesopen
eyesopen
6 years ago

@Moggie,
I agree.
I am hoping that, after seing the film, those people who have no or little previous awareness of MRAs will pop over to AVFM, redpill, MGTOW, etc and see for themselves what it is really all about – a case of ‘wake up and smell the hate!’ Maybe some of them will find their way here. I found this site, quite recently, after discovering the above sites on the internet and i am so glad I did. Now I am learning all I can now about gender politics, feminism, hate ideologies and libertarianism. This site makes it all easier to cope with.Thanks for everything you do David, and thanks to all the contributors.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Miss Diketon — I’m sure someone will be along with your Welcome Package, but in the meantime…

They want to drive us off the internet, instead we come out of the woodwork to support each other. The exact opposite of what they want. After a damned decade of ranting about how if the US wants to wage on war on morals then we need the high ground, I am absolutely thrilled to see our little corner of the web proving that we do have the moral high ground and are simply unwilling to stoop to their level.

And while I don’t speak amphibian well enough to say whether Nivi is proud to be a mammother’s pet-baby, I can say she’s quite interested in what all the fuss is about. So count one axolotl among the animal mammothers who support you David!

Meh
Meh
6 years ago

Delurking to say I’ve just donated David. I hope you have the strength to carry on. It means a hell of a lot. And I hope you feel the love from the good people here.

Meh
Meh
6 years ago

Ech, I don’t mean I’ve donated David to anyone. I meant ‘I’ve donated, David’. To your wonderful site.

I’ll get my coat…

guest
guest
6 years ago

Meh that genuinely made me LOL.

tricyclist (@tonycollinet)

Miss Diketon – another mostly lurker here (occasional commenter perhaps). Also pissed off. The behaviour of these… tries to think of non ableist epithet… struggles… hoofwankingbunglecunts is outrageous.

Berwick66
Berwick66
6 years ago

Also delurking to say I’ve just donated. Stay strong David. You are doing amazing work.

Greggore
Greggore
6 years ago

Lay off the blue pills for a while and see what you think when your mind finally clears.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Ugh, I remember being a “feminist” like her when I was younger. Any time a man called me out for anything, regardless of validity, was a “misogynist douchebag” who was just trying to keep me, an “enlightened” woman down.

Granted, some of the men who called me out were, in fact, actual misogynist douchebags but some of the men that I did hand-wave off weren’t.

UGH.

Cassie Jaye, David isn’t “bullying” you. Quite frankly, he’s being nicer to you than I would be, were I in his shoes.

Criticism =/= “bullying”

Jim
Jim
6 years ago

So… who are these women that MRAs have actually hurt? You haven’t provided any instances. Also, she seems pretty reasonable here and even admitted that the lens she started with wasn’t what she finished with. I don’t understand why this is looked at as toxic when it is raising issues about men?

Sure there are radicals with toxic ideas, but there are radical feminists with toxic ideas too. Grouping an entire lot together based on the outliers is pretty ignorant.. You’re coming off like a hack, be better.

opium4themasses
6 years ago

I don’t comment nearly as much as I did for a bit there, but wow they are busy building their own version of reality. It’s too bad they couldn’t spend more time in Minecraft instead of AVfM or TRP sites.

You have done a wonderful job so far, David. I don’t know what meaningful support I can offer directly to you, but I will signal boost among my small group of friends.

pkayden
6 years ago
Canadian Nerf Herder
Canadian Nerf Herder
6 years ago

I donated to David, and I’m SUPER cheap-and the exchange rate on the CAD is lousy right now. So there, internet goons.

hedin
hedin
6 years ago

“In that video, Jaye said she originally interviewed only MRAs but then later on decided to include feminists. Interesting how her original plan was to make a completely one-sided documentary about her journey to the dark side.”

@auntie Alias, I don’t know. I’ve seen documentaries about hate groups that consist pretty much entirely of hanging out with the hate group, and still show them as, well, a hate group. Louis Theroux’s doc on the Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind. I think he did one on the KKK that was pretty much all KKK people as well. They were humanizing, but definitely not flattering. I’m not saying that it was a good plan, just not sure she was scheming to join the dark side from the beginning.

I’ll agree that The Red Pill is a complete shit show now, though.

opheliamonarch
opheliamonarch
6 years ago

Hello chaps! 🙂

I’m absolutely sure that none of the wonderful people here remember me, old Manboobzer here! Still read every post, and lurk on occasion.

I’m shaking off the mothballs to give David a massive internet hug (if David is happy to accept it) and add my voice to the support already offered by all the amazing Mammothers, Mammothears (big furry flappy ones? I know not what to call us!)

Also giving a small monetary contribution – David – CAKE! Buy cake NOW!

We too are raising our hands as proud feminists, both Mr Monarch and I.
David you have made a massive difference and you are fabulous! All of this awfulness is happening because you are so brilliant at getting the truth about MRA’s out there, hopefully that is a tiny consolation.

Fang
Fang
6 years ago

Considering the threatening language Dave’s documented, my guess is people are upset about him taking on this documentary, which I guess MRA’s figure will be a propaganda coup as opposed to the usual mess. They seem saltier and angrier than usual.

Stay strong Dave.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
6 years ago

tricyclist (@tonycollinet)
“hoofwankingbunglecunts”

“C***” is a misognist slur but the rest of it is a-ok

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
6 years ago

m wrote:

A lot of people will watch that movie. Your story is coming to an end.

I often get the sense that people like m think that most of the folks who see Jaye’s movie are going to suddenly come to some sort of revelation and become MRAs. Which seems unlikely, to say the least.

But even supposing that such a miraculous transformation did happen with a sizable chunk of the movie’s audience, what does m suppose would happen next? Because all of those MRAs in the movie are almost certainly on their best behavior in front of the camera.

What happens when all of these shiny new MRAs come to the Internet trenches and see the massive maelstrom of misogyny that is the true face of the MRM? See, most people have women they care about – mothers, sisters, daughters, grandmothers, friends – and most MRAs treat pretty much all women like shit.

Even if they think a puffy propaganda piece will lure new recruits to their cause, how the hell do they expect to keep those recruits when the propaganda proves to be somewhat less than realistic?

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

@hedin

That’s a very good point.

On her KickStarter page, she said she passed a goal that makes her documentary eligible for the Oscars. *cough*

@Fang

I think so, too. They’ve turned the MSM against them so opportunities to spread MRA propaganda are few and far between these days.

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