Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
Fuck off. You aren’t doing much to make yourself look like you’re not a blatant misogynist.
Truer words were never spoke.
Has it occured to you that women, you know, should have control over their own bodies?
Google “condoms.” They’re pretty famous little pieces of technology.
The fuck? So you’re upset that men in your universe apparently can’t use birth control, and your solution is… make it so everyone can’t use birth control. This is a pretty good microcosm of just how full of shit ant anti-human-rights MRAs are.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve seen in a long time.
Oh well, I guess the blockquote monster had to strike eventually. Let’s try again.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve seen in a long time.
Women are the “gatekeepers of reproduction” because reproduction happens inside our bodies*. This biological reality cannot be removed via application of rhetoric, and the fact that MRAs don’t like that reality doesn’t mean that they’re entitled to disregard other people’s bodily integrity in an attempt to “reblance”.
This is why your movement will never gain mainstream popularity. You may not realize how appalling some of things you say are, but most other people do, and that includes people who are men.
*Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but I think that’s a conversation so far past the 101 level that there’s no point even trying to have it with the MRM.
So the logic is… people are only misogynist because they have nothing better to do?
Truly we are in the presence of an intellectual titan.
Boredom leads to misogyny leads to shitty legal initiatives. It’s the circle of asshole life, apparently.
I’m all caught up on Dr. Who, I guess I have no choice but to go do some oppressin’.
And that’s as much interest as I can muster up for derailing dudes. Bye!
@marinerachel –
“Is the fine gentleman in that image wearing drawers at all?”
Yup, he’s wearing trousers with straps under the feet to keep them tight. Very much the fashion.
Just as well. The flopping and bouncing if he wasn’t wearing strides isn’t something I want to imagine.
“Paul Elam. Eivind Berg. Warren Farrell.”
Well Paul Elam walks the line. I’m sure if I looked I could find something where he missteped a little. The intent of his writing is to infuriate and annoy you. Being kind didn’t work for the past 30 years, so he is being an ass. Paul Elam is an ass hat, but he doesn’t cross the line to hateful or bigot.
Warren Farrell is a feminist, not an MRA. His words are not controversial or inflammatory. You only know his name because Paul is such an ass hat that more moderate voices are now getting listened to. The problems with his works are quote mines and strawmen.
Eivind Berg. Never heard of him. Googling the name brings up a travel agency. Provide a link, travel agencies are not notably sexist.
“This biological reality cannot be removed via application of rhetoric”
Well men are decidedly biologically larger stronger and faster. Men don’t face the biological reality of the burden of pregnancy. What benefits should men rightly get that reflect these biological realities (If you can name on par with deciding if a child lives or dies that would be great)
“people are only misogynist because they have nothing better to do?”
No. They are not misogynists. They are sexists. Use the right words. They are also sexist against men. Dangling a carrot of a “supporting traditionalism” action they may possibly win will get much more action than trying to fight one they know they can’t win.
First off, wtf is this math!
lightcastle — besides my annoyance at the lack of it being on the damned graph, or the page linking to the graphs, I did try math’ing it out (math’ing is totally a word!)
Suicide raw count / (Population / 100,000) = rate; right? Because this being wrong is really the most logic answer here. It’s the rate for those 10 and over, so… http://www.nativenewsnetwork.com/image-files/native-youth-count3.gif
Gives us 13.1% of the general population being under 10, and 16.6% of the Native American population.
Population per census 313,914,040
313,914,040 * 0.131 = 41,122,739
313,914,040 – 41,122,739 = 272,791,301
General population being 1.2% Native American gives us 3,766,968.48
3,766,968.48 * 0.166 = 625,327
3,766,968.48 – 625,327 = 3,141,652
Working within Native American population —
Raw_count / (3,141,652 / 100,000 ) = 17.48
Raw_count / 31.41 = 17.48
Raw_count = 17.48 * 31.41
Raw_count = 549~
So 2005-2009 there should’ve been 549~ Native American suicides right?
Here’s my issue — the raw numbers cannot possibly match. Either I fucked up the conversion from per 100,000 or something is amiss here.
Trying general population —
Raw_count / (272,791,301 / 100,000 ) = 17.48
Raw_count / 2,728 = 17.48
Raw_count = 17.48 * 2,728
Raw_count = 47,684~
What. The. Fuck?! Let’s try working from the raw numbers! Calling it 2,000 based on the assumption that the 1,179 over 2005-2007 holds (1,179 / 3) * 2 = 786 + 1,179 = 1,965 and I feel like rounding.
Rate per 100,000 Native Americans:
2,000 / (3,141,652 / 100,000) = rate
2,000 / 31.41 = rate
64~ = rate
Except nope.
Rate per 100,000, total population:
2,000 / (272,791,301 / 100,000) = rate
2,000 / 2,728 = rate
0.73~ = rate
Also nope.
I have no idea what’s going on here.
That mess aside, it’s a function of race and gender — http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/suicide/statistics/rates02.html
To blatantly ignore the affects of race, as he’s doing to “stay on topic” is bullshit.
And if anyone has a damned clue wtf is up with the data, I’m all ears (hell, if you’ve got ideas I’ll take you to a planet that’s all ears [+2 pts if you get the reference])
RE: Kittehserf
Hey, we met a guy earlier this week who looked like Himself, maybe ten years younger and dressed like a Beatnik. It was pretty neat! (And he was a pretty cool person too.)
I love how you tell them quite directly that you’re done and they just keep talking at you.
Hmm, how about women can decide what to do with their bodies, and men can ALSO decide what to do with their bodies!
Yeah, wanting women to involuntarily undergo excruciating pain does in fact make someone a misogynist. And wanting institutionalized forced pregnancy is a little bit more a bigger deal than wanting men to feel slightly guilty when they have sex.
Second, wtf is that shit?!
Oh. My. Fucking. Gods. You do not get to assume wtf LBT’s life is like. Not in relation to trans* issues, not in relation to scholarships (wtf?!), certainly not in relation to divorce court (hi Mac!)
Now then…
“‘“Feminism really isn’t *for* men directly, we’ll happily take on the social structures that affect men and women, but with birth control up for debate in 2012 somehow, we kind of have other shit going on.’
This is from the link refuting the CDC study. Do you know WHY birth control is up for debate AGAIN!!! Well it’s two fold. First horribly unbalanced power in parental rights. We have codified into law that women are the gatekeepers of reproduction. Women hold all the cards and have all the power. This is broken. Removing access to birthcontrol would reblance. 2nd there isn’t a newer issue to talk about. If a bill for legal paternal surrender was presented, you can be damn sure that Jesus freaks would drop the birth control line and start fighting LPS.”
Oh yep sure, removing access to birth control would totally rebalance power in parental rights…by increasing abortion. And if you so much as think of coming out with how abortion should be made illegal again, or the steady bits being knocked back, I have so wire coat hangers you can shove inside you once you consider whether the risk of death by infection is better or worse than carrying a pregnancy. Because that’s what banning abortion bans, legal abortion. You may go back to the days when men could deposit sperm and run off, but really, you can do that now (seriously guys, do you not get that it’s no harder now to determine who the father is? She either knows your name/contact info or she doesn’t)…but sure, you might somehow go back to “the good old days”, but they’ll be the good old days of back alley abortions and death from infection and punctured uterī. Want to just ban birth control but not abortion? Congrats, you just increased the abortion rate!
But you’re totally full of it that men don’t have a way to control reproduction.
“Also. I used the one year numbers because there is clearly something wrong with the lifetime numbers. 25% of all rapes against men didn’t happen in the last 12 months. There are collection or reporting faults for the lifetime numbers.”
We’re it a particularly rapey year, it is feasible. More likely is a sort of recall effect where men, more than women, were more likely to recall more recent acts. But try actually reading, I played within Antz constraints, including using the 12 month data.
And yes, considering the epic levels of fail in his reply to LBT, I’m not going to try explaining trans* 101 and am just going cis centric. The idea of non-binary genders would probably make him explode and I really don’t feel like explaining my existance.
I also love how the MRA answer to pretty much everything is thinly veiled threats of violence.
My head just exploded, please send someone to clean up the mess.
“Warren Farrell is a feminist, not an MRA. His words are not controversial or inflammatory.”
See any other active thread — now, we’ll still be here when you finish reviewing what a fucking asshole Farrell is. He man fucking supports incest as being not harmful. Plus all the damned “[thing] is the same as rape” shit.
And you don’t know who Eivind Berg is? This guy — http://eivindberge.blogspot.com/ — he’s said such gems as how Anders Behring Breivik might not have shoot all those people if he’s gotten laid more.
And no, I will not wade through his hate filled screeds to find the exact post in which he laid that turd.
LBT – “Hey, we met a guy earlier this week who looked like Himself, maybe ten years younger and dressed like a Beatnik. It was pretty neat! (And he was a pretty cool person too.)”
Whoa, cool! Did y’all do a double-take when you saw him? 😀
RE: gnl
Wow, where do I begin? That was the longest way to say, “Okay, you can come, but only if you don’t actually challenge our preconceived ideas and ask us to openly state our support,” I’ve ever seen.
This is why your movement fails. Feminism is rife with issues and in-fighting, but you are making the most vile and transphobic of them seem brilliant compared to you.
He was just unprepared and ill equipped to deal with the reality of being a man. It’s harsh brutal competition and no one cares if you get run over.
You describe men as though they are vicious, selfish, cruel assholes. If I hadn’t known tons of men who’re gentle, cooperative, and kind, I might actually believe you.
If men don’t care if I get run over… why the hell should I help THEM?
The problems you describe? Are LAUGHABLE to me. You are describing things so pathetically tiny to me, as though you’re expecting me to be challenged by them.
You want to know MY reality? It’s homelessness, because of my identity. It’s poverty, because of my identity. I’m busy trying to figure out where I’m going to sleep in a few weeks, and you expect me to want to join a bunch of men you freaking DESCRIBE as harsh and brutal?
The thing that was hardest for him to deal with was the lack of attention. It took weeks to notice, but once he did notice that no one ever commented on his appearance he became very self conscious about it, not understanding why no one noticed him any more. It was a difficult transition and not all peaches and cream on this side of the fence.
Well, gee golly gosh and willikers, mister! That sure does sound awfully hard!
Seriously, you show a PAINFUL lack of self-awareness. My transition involved me losing my entire fucking family. My job. My home. And you expect to challenge me with, oh noes, nobody might notice me anymore? However shall I deal?
Seriously, you just made Antz look good. Congratulations, you made HIM look GOOD. And you have the GALL to talk about removing one of the few methods of control still available to me? I’m a RAPE survivor, you whiny little creature. Think about it for a second: HOW DID I KEEP FROM GETTING PREGNANT? And I was sixteen. What do you think would’ve happened if I had to bear my rapist’s child?
My god. Please tell me that was your worst game, because that was pathetic.
RE: Argenti
I KNOW RIGHT? I mean JESUS FUCK. I’m fucking living in a CLOSET, with rusty NAILS, and he goes, “Ooh, you might not be able to get girl scholarships anymore!” Like THAT is supposed to be even on my mind? And yeah, complete trans FAIL. Totally obliviousness.
I swear to god, I’m just waiting for him to say, “Let ’em eat cake!”
Oh and abortion does not decide “if a child lives or dies” — first trimester fetuses are no such thing. And for that matter, no one, no matter how born and living, gets to use your organs without your consent. You can’t be forced to donate organs even after you die, how the fuck does it make sense than women (and others capable of pregnancy) should be forced to let a fetus use their organs while they’re alive and the fetus isn’t?
Seriously, no one can make you give someone else part of your circulatory system — donating blood is not compulsory — but you want donating actual parts of your circulatory system, in fact creating whole new sections of it, to be required? For something with far less independent function than whomever that blood could go to?
Which is ignoring, completely, that the organ/blood recipient can probably/definitely get the organs/blood from someone else.
Seriously, I have wire coat hangers, you’re welcome to borrow one in order to ponder whether you’d risk killing yourself slowly and painfully by shoving it inside you.
Well I do have cake if you want some…
Having met her, this may not surprise you, but my mother keeps us stocked in deserts.
In less joking things, I don’t fucking even…wtf is wrong with him?! The MRM spends all this time going on about paper abortion, he tries claiming it’s trans* inclusive, and then has the fucking gall to act like trans* men could never possibly need an abortion. Or, at a more common level, birth control.
Hell, TMI time! My mother was on the pill for the better portion of 2 decades, because married couples don’t always want to make baby after baby after baby and apparently condoms are optional once married. Also, condoms aren’t covered by insurance, whether birth control is or not was, well, the entirety of what I was talking about, nearly a year ago…
As for condoms being covered, May Day I had a thought — combine socialism with fertility and what do you get? Free condoms!!
So according to gnl, white people continuing to benefit both directly and indirectly from centuries of conquest, slavery, mass murder, segregation, legal political disenfranchisement, and ongoing social and cultural effects of all the above, are not sufficient proof that white people as a group are privileged over other groups.
But, women having a choice as to whether or not to terminate a process that happens in their own bodies, means things are “broken” and anyway, men are the real victims here.
Is gnl this intellectually dishonest with everyone, or are us Manboobzers special?
LBT – even ignoring the whole stinking mess of his ignorance of trans* people’s concerns and problems and dangers, that entire “Oh noes, nobody looks at me! Nobody sees me as vulnerable and a sex toy any more!” line just struck me as so weird. Yeah, men in general have such a hard time with not being judged solely by their looks, with being taken more seriously, with being paid better, with being given space and not being treated as public property, there to be judged, criticised and harassed because they do or don’t please passerbys’ boners.