Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
According to gnl, it is sexist against men to point out that rape culture supports violence against women.
@bahumbugi
Jedi hugs if you want them. Sorry to hear about your creepy ex 🙁
he also thinks reverse racism is a thing that exists.
You posted the quote you were trying to take apart above, man, and it said no such thing. Gosh, if you’re going to lie, can you at least try to be convincing?
According to gnl, you cannot identify problems, just like how doctors telling you that you have a broken leg makes your leg more broken.
And that’s where I gave up because there is no hope for you. Citations, man. Is your ass jealous of the shit coming out of your mouth, or in this case, on your keyboard?
” I’ll agree to ignore your crazies if you agree to ignore the male crazies (and if you can actually point”
Stop with the ableism shit. Crazy == bigotted asshoel. I’ll be more inclined to ignore bigotted assholes in the mrm if the whole movement weren’t composed of them . Find me one who isn’t hateful.
First, the promised chart — http://i.imgur.com/4HQkW2J.jpg
Second, genderneutrallanguage!
A, seconding Marie on ableism, and B) the problem is no matter how many upvotes the horrible examples of misogyny have, or how many MRAs spout misogyny, you will say we are quote mining.
It’s not our fault if your entire movement is composed of misogynists.
“If this is a racial issue, it’s a downside of being white.”
That fucking fuck did I just fucking read?!
Whites are seriously underrepresented among suicides, native Americans seriously overrepresented, and you just claimed, in exactly so many words, that this is a downside of being white.
I was ready to request sock check three comments ago, now I’m sure we need one.
Whites:Native Americans 1:1 would be valid if, AND FUCKING ONLY IF, whites and native Americans made up equal percentages of the population. Which they don’t by a variation of 80%+
And I enjoy math far more than I enjoy trudging through 70 pages that amount to “defitions used are the legal ones”.
@Argenti
Holy hell, somehow I missed his “downside of being white” comment.
Now, trolls are not only appropriating racism to try to prove that misandry exists, they are appropriating racism to try to prove that reverse racism exists
Ok. You mean those articles that include “gems” like these?
Ignorance of feminist discourse that explicitly frames rape culture as something that we can get rid of or at least change to the greatest possible degree.
1 point!
The baseless assumption that rape culture is an unfalsifiable concept. Ignorance of the wealth of studies that the prevalence of rape culture evident. Distinguishing the kinds of men with terms like “real men” while claiming to be against misandry. The implicit assumption that not talking about rape culture is going to reduce rape. The idea that someone who may still be supporting rape culture in ways ze isn’t aware of is someone who isn’t worth talking to about ending rape.
5 points!
Saying that “encourages male sexual aggression” is the same as saying only men can be rapists, despite the fact that nothing of that sort is even implied. Arguing that saying that rape culture encourages male sexual aggression is the same thing as calling all male sexuality aggressive.
2 points!
The assumption that, if a problem is gendered in nature, paying attention to its gendered nature can only be done by bigots. The corollary assumption that it’s never important to pay attention to how certain problems are gendered.
2 points!
Abelism and baseless assumption of biological determinism. Regurgitating the “miscommunication” narrative that is inherent to rape culture. Regarding rape as a sexual act rather than the display of control and dehumanization it actually is, thereby regurgitating yet another harmful rape culture narrative.
3 points!
Painting women “presenting themselves as objects” as worse than men objectifying women? BONUS POINTS FOR COMPLETELY UNMASKED MISOGYNY!. Ding ding ding.
10 points!
Congratulations – your MRA dipshit score is 23/10. Please claim your prize.
Oh wow, I can’t believe I actually took the time to read all of those blog entries. X_X
@aaliyah
Wow those quotes were atroticous. I may give up responding to gnl, as he is unlikely to learn and not entertaining…you guys feel free to keeppoking himif you want though… So this is just more me thought dumping than calling to ignore him.
Anyway, GNL, your advocacy for equality is a fucking sham. I can’t imagine it being anything else.
Please ignore me if you wish, though. Just as you ignored that study that decidedly throws your argument that the idea of rape culture causes more rape into the goddamn ocean.
@Aaliyah
wow, I cannot believe you read those articles, either. I gave up when he was convinced false rape accusations happen as much as rapes.
From now on, I will only respond to gnl if he provides a valid citation for that.
@fade
I missed his false rape accusation shit… Kinda skimmed. Not in the mood for troll bs today, is my Easter! Hopefully when my dad and brother come over I’ll be distracted too much to manboobz :p
We needed some ableism from you, too. Thanks!
Wait, I got it! If gnl pretends that mental illness is correlated with misogyny, he can keep denying the systematic sexism against women! It’s not the patriarchy; every single example of brutal misogyny you see is committed by a mentally ill person!
Arginit The numbers where already adjusted for population differences. White people commit suicide at a rate of 16 per 100,000 white people. Blacks commit suicide at a rate of 6 per 100,000 black people. Your 2nd adjustment was incorrect and gave you bad results.
I make no assumption that problems are gendered or not gendered by nature. If a problem is gendered it will be gendered by practice. Showing that a problem is gendered by practice is useful. Making the problem gendered by definition insures that it can never be corrected or reversed. By the Man-hating definition of Rape culture, it is still a problem of men raping women even if all men are caged sex slaves.
The definition of suicide is not “Men shooting themselves”. By this definition men and only men are capable of suicide. If a woman kills herself, it wouldn’t be suicide. This make “Men shooting themselves” a very bad definition of suicide. It is a gendered issue because the practice is very gendered, not the definition.
For all of the quotes. I challenge you to look at them outside the frame work of “White male privilege”. How many of them are actually offensive if there is not an assumption of perpetual female victimization? How many of them are actually offensive is there is no assumption of dominance or power disparities?
Have you got any evidence to prove this spectacular piece of shittery?
PS, link me to the scientific survey that proves false rape accusations happen at the same frequency as rapes. It also must show it’s method of collecting data, too.
Are you one of those guys who thinks that white privilege and male privilege don’t exist?
Sorry, if you’re telling me women being raped by men at a relatively high rate worldwie is just a fact of life and can’t be curbed, you telling me it isn’t a problem. Creep.
I am sorry if it appears that I’m delaying in answering. I am still on moderation and my previous comment have not yet been approved at the time I am posting this comment.
Pecunium:
It’s not the first time people on this site have mis-attributed quotes to me. As for the assumption of ill-intent – I have gotten nothing but assumption of ill-intent an invectives on this site and I find it kind of mind-boggling that you would expect anything else in return.
I have stated that I think it’s problematic that NISVS 2010 Reports does’t categorize being made to penetrate as rape as I think it obscures the number of male victims. You need only to look at how the MSM and others reported from the NISVS 2010 Report when it was published: 1 in 71 men are raped in their lifetime, too few men reported being raped in the last year to even be reported (rel std error > 30% or n<=20) – when the reality is somewhere between 4.8% and 6.2% for lifetime numbers and 1.1% of the last 12 months.
If you don't think that means jack-shit in terms of public awareness of male rape, resources allocated to male victims and to anti-rape programs then we'll just have to disagree on that.
Given Koss stated view on how to classify rape and the fact that CDC chose a definition of rape which are in line with the one Koss recommends and Koss has and continues to have served as advisor and consultant to CDC to advisory boards which looked into methodologies to use (entries from her CV – which can easily be located on Google):
1996: Expert Panel Member, “Definitions of Sexual Assault,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
2003- : Panel of Experts, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control on scales to measure intimate partner violence, resulted in the publication of CDC Intimate Partner Violence compendium, 2005
2003-4: Consultant, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC Intimate Partner Violence compendium, 2005 IPV Compendium on assessment of sexual violence and inclusion as recommended standard assessments in the field of two Koss-authored assessments (Sexual Experiences Survey-victimization, and Sexual Experiences Survey-perpetration)
I'd say that a suspicion that Mary P Koss has been an influence in how CDC classify sexual violence is warranted – it was what she was paid by the CDC to do.
I don’t know. But it happens to be the case that white male privilege is a thing. And none of us assume “perpetual female victimization.” Enough with the straw men you dipshit.
Saying that rape culture encourages male sexual aggression only implies saying that rape culture encourages male sexual aggression. It implies nothing else, and you are either extremely disingenuous or severely lacking in reading comprehension for arguing otherwise. It certainly doesn’t mean that male victims don’t suffer because of rape culture. Nothing in either definition additionally implies what you think it does.
Also, when we say that the problem is gendered, we are only saying that gender socialization is a relevant factor. Which implies that it can change. Socialization can change. And even if those two definitions DID imply immutability, that doesn’t change the fact that virtually all feminist discourse assumes that it can be changed.
Also, in that study I cited, which you completely ignored, it shows clearly that women are far more likely to be raped than men. But I’m sure empirical evidence is inconvenient for your MRA beliefs.
I did read the Revising SES paper. And I noticed the same paragraph you noted. And I thought perhaps I was wrong, perhaps she has changed her mind.
But I also took a look at the actual question used in the revised SES -(which I provided links to – can be seen in the first comment on this thread) and as far as I can see none of the questions would cover being made to (vaginally) penetrate someone else. It wouldn’t even count them at all.
When the researcher makes assertions on what the question set will include and those assertions don’t jive with the actual questions I go with the questions.
Wow, GNL. As a male rape victim who’s been suicidal off and on for the past year plus, you’re doing LOUSY at speaking for me. Kindly go fuck off.
Also, those suicide stats for Native Americans really sadden me. D: I knew they were high, but I had no idea they were SO high, Jesus…
GNL is boring. I just made a pan of spanakopita in a boiling hot kitchen with almost no help and am rather cranky…sigh. /whine. I’m too tired today. And if I can say so myself, I think my moping is more interesting than GNL’s 😉 you guys still tell me if you want me to stop, I don’t want to be annoying.
Seeing how I already spent a good ten minute trying to dig up an actual citation whether that’s already adjusted for population percentage, let’s go on the assumption that it is. So ok, whites and Native Americans have suicide rates exceeding the national average. You still can’t claim that white male suicide is ignored as when the fuck was the last time you heard jack shit about the problems Native Americans face?
Disadvantaged Native Americans =/= white male privilege, just racism (colonism, but I’m not going to attempt to explain the difference).
As for —
“The definition of suicide is not “Men shooting themselves”. By this definition men and only men are capable of suicide. If a woman kills herself, it wouldn’t be suicide. This make “Men shooting themselves” a very bad definition of suicide. It is a gendered issue because the practice is very gendered, not the definition.”
Who the fuck said shit about the definition of suicide being “men shooting themselves”?! You somehow miss that whole discussion about hanging and method variance by location and how *gasp* shooting isn’t a common method in most non-US countries? Cuz I have that data in a spreadsheet if you’d like, say, method frequency collapsed across all nations — your choice whether you want it separated by gender or not. Methods men use by country?
Your choice what data you want to see that isn’t men shooting themselves, seeing how I provided that graph in response to a specific question about firearms being US specific. Data was already broken down by gender so it was easier to just chart them separately. Note the lack of commentary on gender. I thought about doing them as stacked data, but it got weird and made it look like more women committed suicide (first variable was men using firearms, second was women using firearms, so you add the Secind variable to the first and you end up with the line for women stacked atop the line for men, turns the cursory view into a lie)
But hey, pick your variables!