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The Case for Chivalry (Note: It's really, really rapey.)

Chivalry: Good for dudes too.

MRAs, by and large, aren’t big fans of chivalry, and complain bitterly about the terrible injustices forced upon them by this archaic concept, like having to hold doors open for ladies from time to time.

But perhaps they are not considering the many fine benefits of chivalry. In the comments section of Alcuin’s pro-patriarchy blog, our traditionalist friend fschmidt recently set forth the case for chivalry in a way that even the dullest misogynist could appreciate:

In early western culture around the time of the Renaissance, chivalry meant that ladies should be honored and sluts should be raped. This is a totally sound concept and encourages good behavior on the part of women. You cannot expect women to behave if they are not rewarded for good behavior and punished for bad behavior.

Fschmidt’s opinion inspired a lively discussion. Caeser’s Ghost argued that fschmidt had gone a bit too far with the whole rape thing:

Women who dress and behave like whores shouldn’t be raped. They should be prostitutes and treated as such.

Fschmidt replied:

Caesar’s Ghost, I have the greatest respect for prostitutes. Prostitutes provide a valuable service. But sluts provide no value and undermine morality. This is why sluts, identified as provocatively dressed women outside of areas of prostitution, were regularly raped around the time of the Renaissance.

CG argued that prostitutes deserve only the most limited sort of respect:

I respect prostitutes in so far as they fulfill a lowly but necessary function in society. Outside of that function, I have no respect or value for them.

Promiscuous women who are not prostitutes should be treated badly, but I don’t believe that they should be raped. I regard the Renaissance as a great era, but I would have to disagree with their way of handling the problem of sluts.

The mission of Alcuin’s site is, as he states at the top of every page, is to “Promot[e] the Intellectual Renaissance of the Western Tradition.” Apparently you can’t have a real renaissance without sorting out whether or not sexually active women should be raped, or just treated like shit.

For those interested in exploring fschmidt’s opinions further, check out his not-terribly-popular CoAlpha Brotherhood discussion forums. Or this post, in which I examine his CoAlpha brother Drealm’s theory about how women oppress men by dressing like sluts and not covering up their evil sexy hair.

This post merits the famous blinking

tag.

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Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Oh no, the problem of sluts, and all the people they’re hurting by… by.. um…

[think of horrific humiliating punishments first, figure out problem later]

Glass
Glass
10 years ago

I want to high five this guy… in the face… with a hammer.

burgundy
burgundy
10 years ago

The raping thing is going a bit too far to be practical. As alluded to in the sluts thread: for any men to be “studs,” there must be some women who are sluts. Even when there’s a very strong social bias for women not to have sex outside marriage, men are going to want to have sex without getting “tied down” to a woman (since these worldviews also don’t allow for women having reasonable sexual desire, or for women to have any positive qualities that a man might cherish.) So you have to have some group of women who shoulder the burden for the rest – the women who have the dirty sex so that the majority of women can be pure and good. Prostitution is one way of doing this. Slut-shaming is another (remember, you want this group of women to be the minority, so you need to have disincentives for the rest of the women to act this way too.) But routine rape, I think, is too harsh a punishment; you don’t want the disincentives to be too strong, or no women will be sacrificial sluts. I mean, in a society where women can’t own property, can’t support themselves independently, and can’t access the legal system, sure, rampant rape works fine. And maybe they want to address all of those issues too, I don’t know.

I just don’t think they’re constructing a very sustainable scenario, you know?

ersatzmoons
ersatzmoons
10 years ago
Jessonian
Jessonian
10 years ago

MRAs: Men’s desire is all that’s important (or that exists). Also, our pathologically murderous and violent impulses can be generalized onto all men. Ignore that millions of men that somehow do not rape scantily clad women every day–they secretly want to. Damn these Modern Times where you can’t give in to your psychopathic tendencies to rape, maim, and torture any down-and-out you please! What hath Modernity wrought? weeps

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
10 years ago

“Women who dress and behave like whores shouldn’t be raped. They should be prostitutes and treated as such. ”

I like the way Caesar reponds to Schmidt’s disturbed rape fantasy. It’s not so much “DUDE, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!!?” as “I politely disagree with your suggestion, and think that my suggestion is better.”

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

Hey, here’s a thought: Maybe you should do a little bit of reading about the historical period you’re blathering about! Because Lord and Lady, that’s a staggering amount of Stupid and Wrong.

Jessonian
Jessonian
10 years ago

Another thing for the rape enthusiasts: If you see a scantily clad lady you wish you were boning, why in the fuckitty fuck don’t you just get your nut off in a restroom or behind a bush and then POOF! you’re back a-right again? Is it about the orgasm, or planting a flag? Is it about the woman at all? If you want to rape someone there’s no desire for emotional connection or even true sexual connection (as you are doing violence to her, not pleasuring her, by definition). You’re just masturbating into a human hole. You can make one of those with your hand, you know. It’s always there for you. And if you’re unwilling to take care of the problem that way? It’s not any woman’s fault that you’re a fucking lunatic.

ozymandias42
10 years ago

I am just confused about the apparent relationship between dressing like a slut and acting like a slut. I can have casual sex in blue jeans and a baggy Star Wars T-shirt, and I know virgins who love their miniskirts.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
10 years ago

Oh look, ol’ Marky Mark is here as well

.
Marky Mark: “I agree; chivalry should be reserved for LADIES, not mere women…”

So I guess ‘chivalry’ in this case means “to refrain from raping”. But this act of chivalry only extends to the LADIES.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

I like the way Caesar reponds to Schmidt’s disturbed rape fantasy. It’s not so much “DUDE, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!!?” as “I politely disagree with your suggestion, and think that my suggestion is better.”

This is pretty typical when someone says something horrible in MRA-land. It’s as close as they get to self-policing.

“Mass rape, hmm, I understand why you say that, but I respectfully differ.

And we say they don’t crack down on the bad elements.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
10 years ago

@Ozy:

Your experience and input complicates my two-dimensional world view. Therefore you are wrong.

Caraz
Caraz
10 years ago

I’m confused as to how having sex for money is more valuable than having sex for no money…have I missed something?

ithiliana
10 years ago

Enter Ye Raving Researcher with the FRUITS of her research: clearly these assholes need to take a course in medieval chivalric codes and courtly love, for they are clearly doofuses:

The Ten Commandments of Chivalry

Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches, and shalt observe all its directions.
Thou shalt defend the Church.
Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the country in the which thou wast born.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation, and without mercy.
Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
Thou shalt never lie, and shall remain faithful to thy pledged word.
Thou shalt be generous, and give largess to everyone.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

ithiliana
10 years ago

The Twelve Chief Rules in Love.

Laid down by Eleanor of Aquitaine, dudes. Cross her at YE PERIL!!!!!

Thou shalt avoid avarice like the deadly pestilence and shalt embrace its opposite.
Thou shalt keep thyself chaste for the sake of her whom thou lovest.
Thou shalt not knowingly strive to break up a correct love affair that someone else is engaged in.
Thou shalt not chose for thy love anyone whom a natural sense of shame forbids thee to marry.
Be mindful completely to avoid falsehood.
Thou shalt not have many who know of thy love affair.
Being obedient in all things to the commands of ladies, thou shalt ever strive to ally thyself to the service of Love.
In giving and receiving love’s solaces let modesty be ever present.
Thou shalt speak no evil.
Thou shalt not be a revealer of love affairs.
Thou shalt be in all things polite and courteous.
In practising the solaces of love thou shalt not exceed the desires of thy lover.

ithiliana
10 years ago

Oh, and dudes, first you gotta become a knight. None of you peasant types could aspire to this high state! So let’s see the fasting, the praying, the kneeling on cold stone all knight, etc. NOW CURS!

Basic Rules of the Cult of Love

The lover looks on the beloved as one who is higher and can be approached only with a suppressed awe and wonder.
The lover’s body is deeply disturbed with a malady like sickness.
The lover becomes his beloved’s servant. He proves his loyalty and patience by seeking to obtain her nearly unobtainable affections.
The lover always dwells inwardly on the beloved.
Jealousy disturbs love, for a true lover is always loyal.
Such a pursuit empowers the lover’s prowess, courage, and obedience. He may even be moved to greater piety and loyalty to his kingdom

Jessonian
Jessonian
10 years ago

@Caraz —

I’m confused as to how having sex for money is more valuable than having sex for no money…have I missed something?

Well, you know, women can’t possibly have sex because they want to. It’s all about the Benjamins or male denigration, see? At least prostitutes are being up front about it. Sluts are dirty, dirty liars by pretending they legitimately want sex. Their real goal is to get free drinks, doors opened for them, and make Beta men feel like shit when they turn them down for hot, hot Alpha cock!

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

ithiliana: /me bows before your most excellent pwnage

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Ilithiana – That’s awesome. 🙂

I don’t see anything about “women get doors opened for them, but if they step out of line they’re fair game” anywhere in there.

ozymandias42
10 years ago

How about no one gets doors opened for them and no one gets raped? I know it’s weird, but it just might work…

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

Ozy – I am extremely willing to make that trade.

Hell, I’ll even open doors for people, if they’re carrying something or they’re wrangling a little kid or they’re using crutches, and still not rape anybody.

I’m kinda utopian like that.

vacuumslayer
10 years ago

As someone who is borderline conservative/vanilla when it comes to the sexytime, i don’t understand the hatred for sluttiness. I think sluttiness happens for a variety of reasons…and for reasons that help people understand themselves better. (In that they come to understand that “Hey, I like this, I don’t like that. I think I want to sleep around. I think I’m more comfortable with monogamous relationships.”) Why the FUCK do people care about what other people are doing in the boudoir?

Fucking slut it up, people. It’s nobody’s business but your own.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
10 years ago

@vacuum:
But as we’ve seen with NWO (and the few dozen Spearheaders who agreed with his latest post, so it isn’t just his crazy opinion), dressing or acting “like a slut” means that you must agree to fuck every single man who finds you attractive or else you’re a bitch.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

“This is a totally sound concept and encourages good behavior on the part of women. You cannot expect women to behave if they are not rewarded for good behavior and punished for bad behavior.”

How big is this “good behavior” deal in the world of MRAs, exactly? I don’t recall it in the past, but now it seems to be in each new post. Disturbing trends… especially since “good behavior” includes “not voting” and “rewarded” means “not raped” and “punished” means “raped.”

Also, how is it that a small group of men have so inflated their own egos that it is not the least bit out-of-hand to suggest that they judge what good behavior and bad behavior is, and furthermore they should be the ones to pass sentence? Thank god their websites and forums are glass jars that keep them isolated from everyone else…

ozyMRAndias
ozyMRAndias
10 years ago

Snivelling traditionalist socons who refuse to admit the true nature of women. Chivalry? Pah. A beta male abomination and tool of society to hide the true, animalistic nature of women.

And sluts vs. good girls? Newsflash: there is no such thing as a good girl. Every girl, if the right attraction switches are pressed, will bow down and worship the cock as her master. Every girl, in a world without social sanctions, would gladly fuck a silver-tongued cad while her husband attends Men Can Stop Rape meetings and sobs about his patriarchal conditioning; only an alpha male lover who tells her to shut the fuck up and comes home smelling of other pussy can keep her faithful.

Besides, all women love to be raped. Ignore a woman’s first six or seven “no”s; they mean nothing. She only wants you to prove your manliness by pushing through her barriers and taking her like the slut she is. Hold her down while she faux-struggles; if you leave bruises you know you’re doing it right.

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