$MONEY$ a voice for men antifeminism evil women grandiosity kitties men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny MRA music oppressed men paul elam terrorism video

The All-Singing, All-Dancing Men’s Rights Movement

Not a picture of Jade Michael and the FTSU Crew

The Men’s Rights Movement now has a theme song! A couple of talented young men calling themselves Jade Michael and the FTSU Singers Crew have put together a catchy little grunge rock number they call Go My Own Way, which will now serve as the opening music for the A Voice for Men internet radio show.

As AVfM head cheese Paul Elam puts it, straining his prose-generating abilities to the breaking point as he attempts to find words eloquent enough to describe this new musical masterpiece:

Jade Michael, artist, professional musician and MRA, founder of Artistry Against Misandry, has taken his talent hammer and given it a mighty swing to our benefit.  He has forged, in the fires of his own passion, the new theme song for AVfM Radio, titled Go My Own Way. It is not to be confused with the similarly titled offering from Fleetwood Mac, Go Your Own Way. No, not in the least. Jade, with his band, Jade Michael and the FTSU Crew, have produced a veritable anthem for the red pill crowd. It is replete with a great, purist rock sound, a touch of humor, attitude, and a ton of gut level, red pill honesty. Pay close attention to the end for the invocation of Thomas James Ball.

Without further ado, here’s the song:

You can find the full lyrics on YouTube and on AVfM. But I thought I’d share a few of my favorite bits.

The song starts off by addressing one of the most savage injustices faced by men today: evil ladies who expect men to hold doors open for them.

And we’re through with holding doors
Entitlements abound
You say that we still hold you down
And you cop that attitude
No remorse or gratitude

Seriously, ladies, would it hurt you to say “thank you” once in a while, to the men who literally enable you to walk through walls, by holding open the doors you would otherwise be unable to open? To paraphrase Barbie: Doors are hard!

Then there’s this bit:

You’re obsessed with my ability
I won’t be your utility
I’ll never carry you
And I sure won’t marry you

Women around the world, consider what you’re losing here: no longer can you expect to marry guys who hate you so much they made a song about how they won’t hold doors open for you!

And let’s not forget:

Cos’ the time has come to fuck your shit up
The time has come to fuck your shit up
The time has come to fuck your shit up

Perhaps I’m missing some of the subtleties here, but this sort of suggests to me that Jade and the Gang are not so much Men Going Their Own Way as they are Men Still Hanging Around Acting Like Assholes — not MGTOW but MSHAALA.

I appreciate the efforts of Jade Michael and the MSHAALA, but I can’t really help but think of this little song-and-dance number, from the excellent Belgian horror film Calviare (The Ordeal), as the Men’s Rights movement’s unofficial anthem.

In case you’re wondering, this scene makes a little bit more sense in the context of the movie itself. A little bit. It’s actually quite a brilliant little film with some interesting gender stuff going on in it, if you can deal with fairly violent horror films. But, oh my lord, TRIGGER WARNINGS for pretty much every trigger there is.

NOTE: In case you’re wondering about the song’s reference to Thomas Ball:  Ball burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire last year in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. He hoped that his suicide would inspire other men to start firebombing courthouses and police stations. (This wasn’t mere rhetoric; in the lengthy manifesto he left behind he provided tips on how to make effective Molotov cocktails.) Naturally, many in the MRM have hailed him as a martyr for Men’s Rights.

394 replies on “The All-Singing, All-Dancing Men’s Rights Movement”

Ham – @ zhinxy

Practically/coming close; what’s the difference?

And my defensiveness and condescending tone came after the accusation, didn’t they?

Errrrr… HAM? That’s the whole point. When an ally is “accused!” they aren’t supposed to get defensive and condescending.

Being defensive and condescending at any time really never does anybody any good, but especially not when you’ve had a call-out. If you start talking about thought policing, oversensitivity, lockstep, unfairness, and variants etc, I will have to take shots, and I like my liver.

He’s had a fair bit of success as far as relationships, but nothing long-term, which isn’t too shocking for someone 25 years old who was very occupied with school. He’s expressed frustration with women he’s met on the internet who are cautious on first dates, since he feels like they’re acting like he’s a rapist. I think maybe the source of the trouble there is a) how common the rape of women is and b) the perception that it’s a woman’s job to protect against it, not that the women he’s meeting online are just super mean and should consider his little feewings :-/.

I find that really fucking infuriating. No matter what women do they are blamed. Act a little too cautious? OMGMISANDRY. Don’t act cautious enough and happen to get raped? well then what WERE you thinking going out with him, having a drink or daring to think that you wont get raped?

These conflicting messages need to stop and until society and law enforcement tackles rape effectively and drops the victim blaming, then him and his fee-fees can stay far away from women. Please don’t give up on him though. Maybe try to explain to him why women are cautious and why we feel the need to protect ourselves due to messages that it’s always going to be blamed on us regardless. Maybe he’ll get it since you’re one of the “good women.” I also find it especially shitty that he’s behaving in such a way regarding a woman meeting someone off the fucking internet. Who knows who you’re meeting off of the internet is who you really think they are?

Practically/coming close; what’s the difference?

There is quite a bit of difference in the ordinary use of those terms, I would say, but it’s kind of academic now, since you’re rapidly closing that gap.

@ zhinxy

I should have placed the word allegedly before “defensive and condescending”

I don’t feel a need to “defend” myself from you or anyone else on this site. There was an attack on my integrity – I responded. You and some others got involved, reminiscent of an MRA “circle-jerk”. I’m not interested in continuing this.

I’m off to read the new post. Enjoy the view from your high ground. And well done on not championing your anti-MRA credentials.


Please don’t give up on him though. Maybe try to explain to him why women are cautious and why we feel the need to protect ourselves due to messages that it’s always going to be blamed on us regardless. Maybe he’ll get it since you’re one of the “good women.”

Yeah, I just don’t know what to do, really. Any sort of conflict will immediately spread to the greater family, and I’m going to be labelled a trouble-maker, but I also don’t want to be selfishly looking out for #1 when he could hurt people, including himself… I HAVE MANY FEELINGS ON THIS MATTER.

Wow. That was an 8.3 I’d say. We’re like circle jerking MRA’s, I have a high ground to view you from, I didn’t champion my credentials (????? Certificate?), and it was your INTEGRITY! that was attacked, not a call out. (We accused you of embezzlement, perhaps?), And of course, you’re not interested.

Actually, maybe an 8.7

Excellent huffing.

ALLEGED huffing, sorry, since I haven’t taken you to Tone Court and got it all settled.

I’ll give it a 7, zhinxy. A flounce to a new thread, that’s a new one.

And well done on not championing your anti-MRA credentials.

LOL. This isn’t the place for that. Read the header of the site for the love of little green apples.

Hey, we’re not hardcore enough!!!


*hugs* I understand. I hope things work out between you both and he eventually realizes that his thinking is fucked up on the matter.

Happy: those who have read on the site know that MRAL is 19 and at BU (I suppose we could be all paranoid and think he’s lying, but why bother). I don’t really care about his age, but it was the reason some people were willing to cut him some slack (unlike the much older DKM and NWO). People can be assholes in their adolescence, and can change.

In response to the rest of your comments on MY comments; you can fuck off. I don’t give a rat’s ass what YOU think about my tone, or anything else because I think your theories on the MRA and strategic responses and anything else are so much bullshit and verging on MRA apologism.

If David wants to talk to me about my tone or what I write he can; I’d also listen to a few other people here who I have come to know (virtually speaking) and trust. You sound like another troll, and it’s not up to YOU to decide whether you’re “lecturing” or not. you were, and you deserved pushback, asshole.

@Hellkell, Viscaria, and Zhinxy: Ooh, my, you’re right. This whole exchange is so much like the exchange with…..that other guy whose name I don’t recall, right down to the “you haz attacked my INTEGRITY.”

I like the idea of my withering stare being so powerful, *G*.

I take what is written very seriously, and like Hellkell said, the “be nice to the poor man and he’ll be nice to you” is so endemic and trite–the thing that kills me (metaphorically!) about all these dudez is how they seem to think they’re contributing something original to the discussion, when they’re not, and then get all huffy when that’s pointed out. Just shows their privilege.

@Viscaria: I am very sorry to hear about your cousin–the brief picture of him dancing with the very young you at Christmas in contrast to what you see him doing now is sad. There are a whole bunch of reasons I’m not in touch with the cousins I have on my father’s side, and their inheritance of our grandfather’s sexism and racism is just one of them I hope that you and he can manage to connect somehow, without major family explosions.

@MRAL: No guarantees about anyone else, but I do not hate you–you’re not important enough to me to hate. You have no power over me, and no way to affect my life, and I’d suspect that is true of a number of the regulars here. I do feel contempt for you, and I get frustrated that you cannot just leave, as you keep saying you’re doing, and do what others have suggested–find other sites to interact with people.

So don’t give yourself airs–you’re not important enough to be hated.

Speaking of men creating art with relevance to gender issues: go here to see author Jim Hines trying to post in the same ways women fantasy heroes are posed!

MRAL, you should especially consider looking at them because you seem to have so little connection to actual reality and how much mass media shapes your views about gender (and everything else of course).


I think that my feelings are as important as women’s.

Oh, fuck you. One thing you’ve made abundantly clear during your time here is that you think your feelings are far more important than anyone’s.


I had a brief but nice conversation with Jim at Windycon right before one of his readings… it’s always encouraging to find good writers who are also likeable human beings. 🙂

“The time has come to fuck your shit up. Eloquent stuff. Christ, I thought they’d been fucking my shit up all my life, but now they’re really going to fuck my shit up. I’m scared.”

What I’ve deduced from this video, given Elam’s “Women are not self-sufficient” line and girlsayswhat’s pathetic explanation, is this:

Women have the potential to be self-sufficient like men.
However, all because of feminists, women are not self-sufficient. They rely on what NWO calls “Big Daddy” to solve all their problems. Poor men, on the other hand, get nothing.
If I go my own way, you’ll be forced to be self-sufficient. This will fuck up your shit.
Therefore, going my own way is fucking up your shit because if I go my own way, you won’t have me to support you (because you’re dependent on me)

This in itself is, while crude, pathetic, and wrongheaded, not disturbing to me. What’s disturbing is that the song is clearly dedicated to a man who encouraged people to throw Molotovs at courthouses. But Elam insists that “fucking your shut up” merely involves making a life choice and is not violent at all. MRAs want to have their hate-cake and eat it too.

Crumbelievable: The thing is… Elam is also saying he will do things (and encourage others) which will make life harder in an active way (acquit all rapists) as well as his “theories” about rape being legal is the same as affirmative action.

He’s not telling the truth when he says “fucking women’s shit up” is a passive action of his life choice.

Adding to the chorus that doesn’t hate MRAL – hate is reserved for people I feel strongly about, and who are important. You’re just a stupid, spoiled kid who thinks he’s the center of the universe, his feeling are more important than other people’s feeling, etc. There are lots of kids like you. Many of them grow out of it, but unless/until they do they’re not worth bothering with other than to mock if they’re being particularly ridiculous (as you frequently are).


I understand that. Elam is a nut and I’m seriously afraid of him. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in his ideology. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

@ Crumb

Elam is a nut, yes. I would dearly love to know more about his background. He has become the high Priest of the MRM, a David Duke type figure. I think he is striking out in increasingly ridiculous ways to try to get someone high profile to sue him – he is slightly more sophisticated than a typical MRA, but craves negative attention and perverse solidarity of the MRM as any of them.

I saw on another site once that he is father to daughters and is in a ten year relationship.

What a wonderful homelife they all must have.

Just read the Captain Awkward thread where the letter writer’s father hit her and she was asking for advice about what to do, and it made a lightbulb go off in terms of why I finally lost my patience with MRAL.

This thing where he’s abusive to people for months, and then sort of says sorry, and then shortly afterwards starts being abusive towards women here again, but with slightly less profanity, kind of easing into the return to abusive language if you will, and then when people protest tries to make it all about how it is in fact them who are hurting and victimizing him by objecting – it’s a classic abuser behavior pattern. I’ve seen this before, which is why my subconscious was going WAIT, WOAH, LOOK AT WHAT THIS DUDE IS TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH, IF WE LET HIM HE’S GOING TO KEEP DOING IT.

Now it’s quite possible that he doesn’t realise what he’s doing, but you know what? I don’t care. Protecting the many people here who’ve been victims of abuse in the past is far more important than protecting the feelings of one guy who’s actually showing pretty clear signs of an abusive personality in the making.

We can’t let him get away with apologizing and then going right back to his old behavior, folks. Not just because it would make this environment unpleasant for a lot of other people, but because if we do what he’s going to learn from that is that he can be abusive to women and get away with it as long as he semi-apologizes occasionally.

The catch, asshole, is that I am not in fact being abusive, but merely have had the temerity to disagree with the masses sometimes, upon which moment everyone dogpiles me and starts abusing ME verbally, and making ME feel like this is all my fault, which seems like textbook emotional abuse. Fuck you. I’m sick of being belittled and made fun of.

You’ve been insulting and belittling people on here for months on end, even when they try to help you, and you call this not being abusive? You call women elitist bitches for not thinking the right people are hot, you spend several posts speculating about what STIs someone has, you offer half-assed non-apologies then turn right around and do it all over again, and you seriously fucking think you haven’t been abusive? Further proof that you only give a shit about yourself.

These people that are “dog-piling” on you are the same people that been putting up with your shit for a long time. Not everyone is willing to put up with it anymore.

Further proof that you’re a fucking asshole. I apologized for using the term “elitist bitches”, that one single time, and that should be enough. I’m done discussing it. Other than that, I’ve been nothing but patient in the face of dozens of assholes calling me dozens of names, and I understand that I have a history but now that said assholes are starting to speculate about my “abusive personality”, when it is in fact me who is being abused, because of what I’m saying NOW (ie, disagreeing and then being dogpiled), well that’s something I won’t stand for.

You keep saying you apologized. You didn’t. You offered a justification. Not the same thing. And I rather think it’s up the people you offended to decide what’s “enough”, not you.

People are sick of your shit, and they don’t respect you because you don’t respect them.

MRAL: Did that, “dogpile” happen the first time you disagreed?

Does it happen when you are disagreeing without saying foul things about women?


Which means your whining is just that, whining. You can be as rude as you like. Actions have consequences. People have been six kinds of gentle with you (some have been encouraging; me, others have merely been quiet at times when you were being a massive shithead (I’ve done both).

Disagreeing isn’t what gets you jumped on. zhinxy has very different political views from most of us. She doesn’t get shit for it (well, expect from Meller and NWO). It’s not because she’s female. It’s because she’s not a jerk.

You’ve gone out of your way to be a jerk. That’s not conducive to people having warm fuzzies about you. At this point, you have three options.

1: Stop being a jerk.

2: If you can’t, just accept that you will get called out on it.

3: Leave.

…well that’s something I won’t stand for.

You can leave at any time. Or you can choose to discuss/debate in good faith and defend your positions without all the fuckery. Clearly, it’s important to you to continue to engage on this site. I understand that; I enjoy it as well. I miss having more time to comment even though I still read all the threads. If it’s important to you, get your head out of your ass, think before you post, and stop approaching every issue from the “but I want a girl to have sex with me” position of a whiny-ass titty baby.

You say you’re smart?

Don’t conflate women who like the Twilight series with gamers who resent Lara Croft.

And even if you eventually said the words “I’m sorry.” after trying at length to weasel out without apologizing, you’ve blown your credibility at this point.

MRAL: Further proof that you’re a fucking asshole. I apologized for using the term “elitist bitches”, that one single time, and that should be enough. I’m done discussing it. Other than that, I’ve been nothing but patient in the face of dozens of assholes calling me dozens of names, and I understand that I have a history but now that said assholes are starting to speculate about my “abusive personality”, when it is in fact me who is being abused, because of what I’m saying NOW (ie, disagreeing and then being dogpiled), well that’s something I won’t stand for.

No, he’s not being a fucking asshole.

No, you didn’t calling women bitches, or elitist, or, “Her Holy Highness” only once.

No, you didn’t really apologise for doing it.

No, you haven’t stopped doing it.

The comparison to your behavior, and that of the abuser, is; though I am sure painful, apt. You said you had been hurting people; you even admitted you were being hurtful on purpose. That’s one thing.

But you have, so far as I can see, not actually be doing anything to change the ways in which you act. You aren’t even being more honest about it. Now when you say something asshattish you say, “I was posting without thinking”.

That doesn’t make it better. What it means is you don’t give enough of a shit about other people to think about what you are doing.

If the problem is you hit send before you have taken the time to look at what you’ve written… then take a minute and look at what you are doing. Type your comments in “Word”, or something, and the read them before you copy them to the comment box.

That, or sleep in the bed you keep making.

And really MRAL the fact that you keep trying to worm your way back in and pretend you’re everyone’s pal after it’s made abundantly clear that no one has any reason to trust you is offensive to me in and of itself. If you had any decency or respect you’d walk away.

HEY MRAL, you have a high IQ, so figure some shit out. If you feel belittled, why not leave?

I’m not calling you a fucking asshole because of what you’re saying now. I’m calling you a fucking asshole because you’re still here. That’s a dick move. Stick your flounce. You deserve to be called an asshole, even if what you’re saying is that we’re all wonderful and right and perfect. Because you are one.

Your behavior is following a classic abuse script, MRAL. The fact that you feel like you’re the one being abused is actually a fairly predictable part of that script. You think we didn’t all realize that you’d respond exactly the way you have?

You still haven’t actually apologized, by the way, as others have pointed out. Instead you’ve started throwing out similar stuff in other threads (the problem with Twihards is that some of them are fat? Really? And we’re supposed to overlook your saying that because it slipped past your “filters”?)

This is not about a difference in opinion. Zhinxy is an anarchist libertarian, and I’m a union-loving former communist, and notice how she and I don’t rage at each other? It’s because we’re both decent people, and we have a history of being decent to each other. You have shown no signs of being a decent person, and a lot of signs of not being one, and you have a history of being a sexist jerk to the women on this blog.

The problem you’re facing here is that everyone has seen past your “filters” to the person underneath, and we don’t like him.

So now that fact that I think I’m being abused means that I’m an abuser. Fuck you. I’m not buying into your emotionally manipulative shit any more. You can go to hell, frankly. I’m tired of being talked to like that. I am a person with feelings, and you cannot compare my previous behavior to this situation because I was just one person trolling, not a horde of self-righteous douchebags who think they have the fucking right to sit around and calmly psychoanalyze me and talk about what a horrible person I am.

By the way, up until the past few posts I haven’t been raging at anyone, it’s been you and a bunch of other people engaged in a unilateral flame war.

I’m not going anywhere, kiddo, and I’m not remotely interested in your feelings any more. If and when you can learn to behave with respect for women’s feelings, then perhaps that policy will change.

MRAL, whether you apologized or not, it’s clear you’re not sorry.

And you have some shit to be sorry for. Words that are “trolled” are just as loud and just as real as words that are “said,” and you said heinous shit to people.

And you’re really never going to make up for that. Maybe not even if you were sorry. But it’s a moot point because you’re not–you’re not even pretending to be. All you’re pretending is that an apology is a magic trump card that makes people obligated to not just forgive you but like you.

Which we don’t.

Go join a Radiohead forum or something, don’t call any of them elitist fucks or say that they were lying about being raped (not “say it then apologize,” I mean don’t say it in the first place, it’s not so hard), and maybe they’ll be your pal. This is just not a good place for you to find pals.

Fuck, even if you’d never said all that heinous shit, it still wouldn’t be a good place for you to find pals. You and most of the commenters here don’t have much in common, to put it lightly.

It’s a big Internet and a bigger world. Stop putting all this effort and emotion into a tiny handful of people who will never be your pals.

So, telling you you’ve been treating people like shit and it’s caused them to not like you is emotionally manipulative? Bullshit. It’s the fucking truth is what it is. That you can’t accept that is your own problem.

MRAL, many of us are annoyed/pissed/whatever because we keep cutting you slack again and again — even when you were at your abusive “trolling” worst people genuinely tried to talk to you and help you deal with your issues,etc. You’ll behave better for a little while but every time you end up reverting to your old ways (like throwing in a gratuitous references to “fat chicks, ha ha” in your comments here earlier). And then you issue “apologies” which are self-pitying and accusatory.

This is not the place to process your anger issues, especially if you idea of processing them is to lash out, then say, my bad, why is everyone mad at me?

As someone who’s made sympathetic posts about MRAL in the past, I have to say that I’ve been firmly aligned with the majority view over the past week.

MRAL, if you really genuinely can’t see what a humungously insensitive asshole you’ve been in recent days, you need to step back, chill out, and re-read the posts that triggered these allegedly abusive pile-ons. People weren’t piling on you because they’re bullies who feel like victimizing you just for laughs, they were piling on you because you wrote some indefensibly stupid shit (comparing pregnancy to being able to pee in an arc, for instance), and got all huffy when you were rightly called out on it.

Having a minority view is fine (I’m also in the “disagree personally with Zhinxy’s political views but respect that they’re legitimate and well articulated” camp). Strongly disagreeing with people is fine – in fact, this is the sort of thing that keeps forums like this lively and entertaining: echo chambers are deadly dull. But what’s not fine is writing ignorant, calculatedly offensive posts that look suspiciously like trolling and then get all whiny and defensive when they’re greeted with the ridicule that they deserve.

I’ve been hanging out in online forums for 16-17 years now, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone get cut quite so much slack as you’ve been. So don’t give me the “waaah, why is everyone being nasty to me?” routine: I’ve heard it many many times before and rarely with as little justification.

“So now that fact that I think I’m being abused means that I’m an abuser.”
No. But saying you’re abused doesn’t mean you’re not an abuser, since many abusers pretend to be the victim.

You get angry when women find some men not to their taste, you get angry when people don’t like the same music as you,… You see personal attacks when people are not even talking or thinking about you. You’re entitled and react irrationally.

More than the names calling (though it’s telling that you never gave up your misspellings of ‘women’) and trolling, the problem is that you seem to genuinely not understand what’s wrong with your behavior.

So It doesn’t matter that you apologized a bit, because:
– people have the right to refuse the apology. You acted badly, sometimes with the intent to hurt, sometimes out of cluelessness, and nobody has to forgive you.
– your behavior changed, since your renouncement to trolling, but you kept getting angry and being insulting. Even if we had just met you three weeks ago, you would have very negative reactions here.
– you don’t understand. It doesn’t matter if you say “I’m sorry” if you don’t understand why people are angry at you.

I’m a union-loving former communist

Are you my long-lost twin?

MRAL, your “reformation” has been a flop. Time to move on.

@ hellkell

I wonder if the significant others would have a similar moment of “wow, this is spooky!” if we introduced them?

The problem with MRAL’s attempt at reform, fundamentally, is that he still seems to believe that he has the right to lash out at women in nasty ways any time something they do or say makes him feel insecure. He either doesn’t understand that “arrogant elitist bitches who sneer at any man who dares to touch their robes!” is not a normal or reasonable response to “I don’t think Russell Brand is all that hot/thanks for the chat but I’m going to go leave with that other guy over there now/any other expression of sexual preferences from a woman that I, MRAL, do not like”, or he knows that it’s irrational but thinks he should be allowed to say it anyway because it’s just so hard being a 19 year old virgin that we should cut him some slack if he feels the need to express his “opinion” that women having sexual agency is unfair to him and men like him.

Basically it reads as an attempt to get all the women here to shut up and not ever dare to say anything that reminds him that women do in fact have sexual preferences and agency, no matter how inconvenient that fact is for him, by making them feel guilty or like bad people for having said preferences and the ability to act on them. It’s an (admittedly inept) attempt at bullying women into either compliance or guilty silence, and I’m not willing to put up with it any more.

People have come to the dual recognization that MRAL is a miserable pile of lies and jackassery (WHAT IS A MAN!?) and that HAMRA is at best ridiculously soft and seems to demand other people do all the heavy lifting for his or her strategy of niceness, in the same thread? This is kind of an excellent thread to read after the fact!

Also amuse: HAMRA pretending the MRM needs to be opposed. We don’ need to do anything about uninfluential, immature little shits, as a political movement. Individuals might do dangerous things, like Elam’s little Register-her toy, but the movement will never be an effective political movement.

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