MRA: Women hate engineering because it’s too hard and they’d rather mooch off their husbands.

Also, MRAL, we’re not asking Meller what he loves because we already know, and it’s kind of creepy. NWO does not appear to love anything at all – he’s human black hole that sucks the joy out of life.

I’m really glad that my 19-year-old ranting happened pre-internet. Arrogant communist goth kids for the win?

Tell me about it. My kids aren’t in their teens yet, but I can see I have some rather delicate issues to negotiate when they are. And this won’t be for another six years – and six years ago, Facebook and Twitter were barely relevant, so what will the online landscape be like then?

In many ways, it’s harder being a digitally literate parent – my own parents wouldn’t have had the first clue.

And yeah, Ami, I agree. I think the reason that most of us cut MRAL more slack than the other trolls is that most of us can remember going through an angry, self-loathing stage where you feel like the world is against you. Most people grow out of it, but take a person in that stage and have them marinade in the MRM for a while and it’s quite possible that they never will grow out of it, which is a shame.

I think the reason I always seem to default to semi-affectionate mockery with him is that I definitely had smartest kid in the room syndrome at his age, just like he does. I didn’t have the virulent hatred of a specific group of people, thankfully, but the “omg I’m so brilliant and so above the rest of you sheeple, you know nothing, let me tell you how the world really is” thing feels very familiar indeed.

yeah I dun think his age is an excuse… esp since while he’s screaming, ppl are offering him help, and support and are pretty compassionate to him… >_> I feel bad for him if he is suffering from serious depression or underlying issues, but knowing why somebody does something doesn’t excuse that they still choose to do it, and that they WANT to hurt ppl (and are hurting some ppl). >_>

I was a really angry person until I transitioned (b/c I had no idea what was wrong w/ me and I repressed it heavily), depressed, suicidal (2 attempts), etc… I had a lot of anger and hatred in me (though I never took it out on the internet like MRAL)… it doesn’t excuse any way I treated ppl, and I feel rly bad for it all the time… it might be understandable, but I could still control it… I chose not to sometimes (or justified why it was ok)… but like I said, there was lots of times I chose not to channel my anger towards certain things :

But I also was rly rly close to MRA thinking back then (if there was an MRA movement online that showed up more than… whatever box they were in) because I had gender issues (I’m not saying MRAL does, I’m talking me) and b/c it was easy to have somebody to blame, and the media showing the happy lives of rich white teenage girls (like Lauren Conrad) makes women an easy target if you hate your life, hate yourself, hate that you feel like a failure, hate that you’re single (tho I was never single… I got dates easily, that’s how I know having a girlfriend won’t solve MRAL’s problems), etc etc… even tho in retrospect, I had accomplished a lot, I was good in sports (MRAL was captain of the swim team), etc etc.. none of that seemed good enough, because the problem was ME, and how depressed, self-hating, suicidal, etc I was… : And the MRA provides MRAL with a scapegoat, a grass is greener thing for him to bathe his anger and self-hate in… As I said, in another life, he could be American Heritage Rights Lieutenant and blame minorities for all his problems… the MRA just got to him first, and their msg pinged some stuff he alrdy was upset about and feeling inferior about…

But again… it just means that I understand… but the people he’s trying to hurt here are a) my friends b) ppl who have nothing to do with him who are operating in good faith, and while I want to help him, he’s still being an asshole, and he’s still trying to hurt ppl, and he’s still choosing to wrap himself in that hatred without questioning it… -_-

My point noting that MRAL was captain of the swim team btw, is to note how completely meaningless that is to him despite that it’s a lot more than a lot of other ppl have accomplished athletically in HS and it’s not good enough, b/c the problem isn’t an objective, quantifiable list of accomplishments that would make MRAL happy… the problem is him :

If he had a size 3 girlfriend, he’d start wishing he had a size 0 girlfriend, and if they stayed together, I fear her “not being good enough” would start leaking into the way he talked to her and treated her…

if he had a good job, he’d be jealous of people with a better job, he’d be complaining about the bitches who made more and the alphas who got a promotion… and if he got a promotion, he’d be complaining that if he was a woman he’d get 2 promotions, or have been promoted earlier.. or if he was taller, he’d work for a better company… :

Nothing is ever going to make him happy unless he identifies and tackles whatever the underlying issue (whether that’s something biochemical, like clinical depression, or something that CAN be changed, like if he’s in an abusive home, or has GID or etc) is :

I fully expect MRAL to get hung up on details and go “I wouldn’t want a size 0 g/f, they’re anorexic bitches” or something and purposefully try to miss the point and indulging his angry “smarter than thou” persona xD But I still know he reads what I write :3

All of our trolls seem to get angriest with and target most the commenters who for whatever reason make them think about things that they feel insecure or aggrieved about, which is why Holly and Ozy get under MRAL’s skin – he thinks Holly is unattractive, just like he thinks he’s unattractive, but she’s getting laid and he’s not so that’s not fair! And he can use his sexism to explain it, and thus reinforce that nice cozy feeling of victimization. Ozy is his age, and clearly in a better place mentally and emotionally, AND getting laid more despite totally refusing to conform to gender expectations, so zie is basically the antichrist from his POV. Ami particularly irks NWO because she’s so damn chirpy and happy, and he’s so angry and miserable. I irk Meller because I’m a woman who’s openly critical of him in a really needling, specifically feminine way that wouldn’t sting if it was coming from another man – it gets under his skin because I’m a woman. And so on and so forth. Whereas I make fun of MRAL all the time, but I don’t really have anything that he wants (as far as he’s aware) so it probably doesn’t sting as much as if, say, Holly said the same things to him.

What troubles me is that there are probably a fair number of kids like MRAL, and contact with the MRM is going to prevent them from ever growing out of that angry adolescent the world is against me stage. Which sucks both for them and for whoever else has to deal with them in real life.

I also wonder if with NWO, there’s an additional thing that happened on top of what you said above, when he found out I’m trans. I mean this is the guy who constantly gets jealous and angry about his perceptions of the wonderful life of women (that we wear silky clothes, that everybody likes us, that we get to paint our nails, and get pedicures, etc), and it seems like he’s also jealous (even if he’s not trans), that I’m MAAB but I transitioned and am happy and chirpy, and everybody likes me and he’s prolly also projecting ideas of how much better my life must be for that too, and how unfair it is, how awful it is, and doing a huge sour grapes thing. XD And that’s on top of the fact that he’s miserable, and hates that I’m not 😀 I notice he TRIES to make ppl miserable a lot, and he prefers picking on ppl he thinks he’s getting under their skin, but he hates me because I find him hilarious and adorable rather than awful and anger-mongering xD Like I find MRAs in general 😀

Crack Emcee hates me too, but he’s not around nemore xD He said I’m the cruelest person on here! XD

NWO said I’m the vilest. xD

Whereas I make fun of MRAL all the time, but I don’t really have anything that he wants (as far as he’s aware) so it probably doesn’t sting as much as if, say, Holly said the same things to him.

I don’t think he’s even so much as acknowledged my existence.

But I hope he’s taken some of the things I’ve been saying on board, because it is perfectly possible to morph from a rage-crazed 19-year-old to a generally calm and mostly very contented fortysomething – but it does need a certain amount of introspection and honesty along the way. I know that if I’d spent my twenties and thirties blaming women for my various woes, or indeed foreigners or ethnic minorities or any other conveniently catch-all target, I’d have had a pretty miserable time of it – with absolutely nothing to show for it at the end.

What troubles me is that there are probably a fair number of kids like MRAL, and contact with the MRM is going to prevent them from ever growing out of that angry adolescent the world is against me stage. Which sucks both for them and for whoever else has to deal with them in real life.

I know – and I know people who still have that mentality in their thirties and forties, despite the fact that it’s helping precisely nobody and damaging them most of all. And the longer you go down this road, the harder it is to change, because denial kicks in – it’s very hard to process the idea that you’ve essentially been wasting your time.

Which is why I applaud former neo-Nazis who have seen the light. I appreciate how brave it is to recognize that you’ve been basing your entire ideological outlook on bigotry, poorly-educated guesswork and randomly processed drivel, and to have the courage to do something about it, even at the risk of ostracizing yourself from your former friends.

And however much I despair at most of MRAL’s childishly confrontational and pointlessly aggressive posts, I remember the time he spoke out against Paul Elam’s dangerous and possibly criminal witch-hunt against that Swedish drama group – which was a brave thing to do, and I respect him for it.

MRAL has an particular problem w/ genderqueer ppl I’ve noticed… he blew up on the forum too when I was looking for a forum host for David to use that didn’t require people to choose a gender.. he’s fine with trans women (he’s said this I believe, and he never has said nething transphobic to me, sometimes it seems like he likes me o_O as much as he can like nebody here neways xD ) but he has a HUGE issue with the idea of genderqueerness, and he got into a huge huge rant about it… when I tried to insert myself into it, he said it didn’t apply to me because I can and should identify as a woman… o_o But THERE ARE NO OTHER GENDER IDENTITIES BUT THE TWO >_>

It’s one of those weird things you don’t expect him to absolutely blow up about, but he does… like his insistence that it’s “American” and not “USan” or “USian” and it’s treasonous to not say America and say US instead. xD

I mean this is the guy who constantly gets jealous and angry about his perceptions of the wonderful life of women (that we wear silky clothes, that everybody likes us, that we get to paint our nails, and get pedicures, etc)

I’m now envisioning Ami taking MRAL shopping and going for a manicure and drinks. *montage with music*

By the way, I’m a cis-woman and I’ve never been for a manicure in my life. It’s too expensive!