Categories
antifeminism evil women false accusations hypocrisy I'm totally being sarcastic men who should not ever be with women ever misandry misogyny MRA reddit violence against men/women

Men’s Rights Redditors: Guys who kill their exes — who can blame them?

A couple of intriguing quotes from Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit.

The topic at hand: A Redditor claims an ex falsely accused him of rape and caused him various other problems and basically acted like a shit. No one, of course, can possibly know if the guy is telling the truth, but the r/mr regulars all assume the alleged false accuser is guilty until proven innocent. (And maybe not even then.)

Naturally, some of the regulars use this as an opportunity to discuss how completely understandable it is when guys kill their exes.

Really, in this misandrist world, dudes murdering their exes is totally like slaves murdering their masters. Illegal, sure, but who can blame them? At least that’s how texaswildfires sees it:

 

Yep, in his mind, dudes today are totally in the exact same situation as slaves in the antebellum south — so when a guy murders his ex, the person you should feel empathy with is the murderer.

Naturally, both of these comments got upvotes, because that’s just how r/mr rolls these days.

 

290 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
VoiP
VoiP
10 years ago

the ad hominems don’t do anything for me

“You’re bad at this” isn’t an ad hominem. Christ, I hate it when MRAs and their sympathizers use terms from formal logic, often incorrectly, to shut down legitimate debate. When did that start? Is it because men (and Token here) are supposed to be “rational” and women aren’t or something?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Hope you feel better soon, Kathleen.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Magz too, actually. Tis the season for everyone to be sick (I haven’t been able to breathe normally for a week myself). Blech.

Philippa
Philippa
10 years ago

Mags:

No, killing someone in a fit of temper for pissing you off is most definitely NOT OK. Nor for getting a better outcome than you did in a divorce settlement. It IS OK to defend your life and those of others. Do you honestly not see the difference?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

Also, I can’t remember who posted this upthread (Slavey maybe?), but no, not everyone has contemplated murdering someone when they’re angry. Not in a serious way, anyway. I’ve been angry enough to want to yell at people many times, even angry enough to want to hit them (which I would never actually do unless they were physically threatening me), but angry enough to want to kill someone just because they pissed me off? Nope.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

Philippa: No, all women are not victims because decent men do not abuse. However if their husbands beat, rape, threaten them or others with violence, keep them from leaving freely if they choose or threaten to kill them or others if they attempt to leave, then of course they are victims. It isn’t always possible to just walk out. There are plenty of abusers who kill or attempt to kill departing wives and children. Trying to leave is the most dangerous part of an abusive relationship and not everyone can afford to take the risk.

In the UK, there have been several cases of abusive marriages where the abused partner didn’t speak English well enough – or in some cases at all, the last instance being particularly common with arranged marriages involving a wife coming over from the ancestral homeland. And in some of those cases this is because the husband deliberately prevented them from going out, making friends, learning English, etc., knowing full well that this made them much less likely to “just walk out”.

After all, where would they go? And who could they speak to, given that everyone they’d know who was fluent in their own language might well side with the husband? And would they lose their children as a result of this? And if so, what would happen to them?

Case in point: Kiranjit Ahluwalia, whose family insisted that it was a matter of honour that she remain with her husband, no matter how often he raped or assaulted her (details of which they either disbelieved outright or trivialised). And she literally didn’t know anyone else in Britain. In fact, one of the most revealing details of her story is her admission that the most supportive people that she met since getting married (in other words, since she left India) were her fellow inmates in Holloway Prison.

Philippa
Philippa
10 years ago

Wetherby:

This is exactly the kind of case I was talking about. There are lots of reasons why it’s sometimes not possible to simply leave a situation like that and it should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it for a moment or two. Women, especially if they don’t speak the dominant language or have money of their own can be incredibly vulnerable. If they don’t know about, or there are no domestic violence shelters they are doubly so.

And I’d like to point out that the kinds of cases that we’re talking about here aren’t cases where someone has been “screwed over” in a divorce case or treated shoddily by an ex in a breakup. We’re talking about situations where their lives are in danger and they are suffering prolonged abuse. Being angry isn’t an acceptable reason to kill someone but defending yourself and others is an altogether different matter. Ahuwalia’s case was most certainly the latter.

Amused
Amused
10 years ago

The thing is, women who kill their sleeping abuser in order to leave are acting in self defense, there shouldn’t need to be special dispensation for that circumstance.

Abuse, even severe abuse, is not a complete defense to homicide, at least in the US. The defense of “self-defense” requires the threat of imminent harm, and it’s narrowly applied to men as well as to women. A history of domestic violence may get the charge reduced from murder to manslaughter, but the latter still carries a homicide conviction and a substantial jail term. I still remember a particularly disturbing case in which a woman who had been severely abused (which was confirmed by numerous witnesses) over her fifteen-year-marriage killed her sleeping husband after he had spent most of the day beating her, threatening her with a gun and promising to kill her after he had taken his nap. Eventually, bowing to public pressure, the state governor pardoned her, but not before she had served six years for manslaughter.

Men, however, have been known to use the “nagging wife defense” to get off murder charges scot-free .

(Interestingly, when I googled “Jewish American Princess murder” in order to link to the story, the first link that came out was to an MRA website that characterized Steven Steinberg as a “battered husband”. Mind you, his defense did not involve ANY allegations of physical violence, only that his wife “nagged” him for money. The MRA website breezily pointed out the “commonly used” battered-woman syndrome, thus equating “nagging” with rape, beating and physical torture. Just more proof what tender snowflakes men are in the MRA world, and what a trifle it is to beat a woman to a pulp.)

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

Oops… I”m the one who misread magdelyn’s post. What a maroon!

Pecunium
10 years ago

God is watching.

Oh, ok then, why don’t we just let God sort it out? A little lightning bolt to punish the really serious malefactors, and Hell and Damnation for the rest.

NO need to have a legal system at all, God is Watching.

Or.. yanno, we could look at all the circumstances and see what’s going on. Because it’s not as if on can just pull, “Yer Honor, He needed killin'” out of your ass and get off scot-free.

The success of a self-defense plea is requisite on showing the judge, and jury, that there was a threat to one’s life that other means couldn’t resolve. The number of cases in which a “burning bed” defense is successful is so rare that when one does happen, it’s big news.

Which is why all the hand-wringing about how women just, “get away with murder” is so much nonsensical whining.

Jenn93
Jenn93
10 years ago

Hey Slave, rape is actually a very simple concept:

If at any point the someone says “no, or stop” and you don’t it’s rape. A rape can happen between a married couple, partners, and strangers.

The reason feminists want to change the definition of rape is because rapists don’t always use force. They can use threats, and use fear. In such a case, the victim can be in a position to say yes, because they are afraid for their lives. ” If you scream, or tell anyone about this, I’ll fucking kill you.” is something some people actually do. They don’t necessarily jump out of bushes, chances are, they know you.

You seem to be under the impression that most if not all women will use a rape accusation out of spite. If that were the case, anyone who has an ex-girlfriend or ex-spouse of some sort would be in prison. It doesn’t make logical sense.

The reality is that the majority of women who are raped are afraid to come forward because they are afraid of being re-victimized and called sluts, which is why we have Slutwalk, btw.

Joe Futrelle
Joe Futrelle
10 years ago

Also, I still have no idea what she meant when she mentioned my brother last night. The only interpretation I can think of is that she must assume my brother and I hate each other because … I hate all men, or something? (Actually, my brother — who, like me, does not hate men — comments from time to time here. He also thinks MRAs are idiots. As do most people — if they’ve even heard of them.) I have no idea. Maggie is not living in the same reality as the rest of us.

Joe here. Yeah, I don’t get this either. Last time I posted here as me, trolls accused me of “white-knighting” you and then continued to make up all kinds of insulting shit about our family, so I chose a pseudonym so that my comments wouldn’t be yet another excuse for derailing comment threads.

Troll fun tiemz!!!1!!!! Figure out which regular commenter is me. w00t

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

Mags:

A middle ground? A middle ground that says you can walk up to someone while they’re sleeping and hit them in the head with a hammer?

You can’t, though.Youcan’t go up to “someone” while they’re sleeping and hit them in the head with a hammer. You can’t even go up to “your partner” while they’re sleeping and hit them in the head with a hammer.

In fact, you can’t even go up to your abuser while they’re sleeping and etc. You’ll be hauled off to jail as a murderer. If the3 charges are reduced, you’ll still serve time and have a criminal record. If you’re acquitted, well, MRAs say acquittals don’t count. (At least, MRAs sem to believe being acquitted of rape leaves you no better off than an innocent person convicted of rape, I assume that applies to other crimes.)

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

You can’t, though.Youcan’t go up to “someone” while they’re sleeping and hit them in the head with a hammer. You can’t even go up to “your partner” while they’re sleeping and hit them in the head with a hammer.

The funny thing is, Magz read enough of the article I linked to to grock that it was about a woman who beat her husband to death with a hammer while he was sleeping, but apparently stopped reading before she got to the part where the woman was sentenced to 10 years for it. The reason it was 10 years and not life was because of the overwhelming physical evidence that he had been an abusive fuck who took great pleasure in beating the shit out of her every chance he got, making sure she knew she was worthless and that he had absolutely no compunction about killing her, and made it impossible for her to leave him under any other circumstances.

But yeah, she was a child with no honor, blah blah whatever.

Ray Percival
10 years ago

OK. To illustrate the point for Magz.

“You’re an idiot, stupid, and also dumb. Now here are the reasons you are wrong…” And then spelling out the reasons that you’re wrong is NOT an ad hominem.

“You’re an idiot, stupid, and also dumb therefore you are wrong.” is an ad hominem.

I think confusing the two should be called “Argument from I don’t understand how logical fallacies work”.

random6x7
random6x7
10 years ago

Slavey, you ignorant, lying ass, that quote about changing the definition of rape goes on to take issue with rape being defined as only something that happens to women. They want, among other things, to have it apply to men, too.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Joe, obviously you are the alpha cock carousel. 😀

The odd thing with NWO and Mags is they believe that as long as a woman is the accuser, due process is chucked out the window.

Which obviously means that the solution is to have no windows in the courtroom. 😀

Joanna
10 years ago

And they call women spoiled bitches. Look dudes, you can’t just go around killing anyone that looks at you cock-eyed. Solve your problems like men, not barbarians.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Joanna: Or solve your problems like women and kill men while they sleep then think of clever ways to rationalize and justify immoral things like murder so you can blame shift your way out of it.

Joanna
10 years ago

Brandon, there’s no justification for murder, no matter what gender you are. Do you honestly believe that I was gonna say, “No it’s ok for a woman to kill her ex because she was a victim etc etc”? How narrow minded are you? There are ways to deal with issues of abuse, killing shouldn’t be one of them.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Joanna: No but a lot of the commenters here are taking her side and rationalizing it away by saying “she was emotionally abused” or “he threatened her”.

The man was sleeping…be a responsible adult and go pack your bags and take the kids away without telling him where you are going. There are other ways to make yourself safe than jumping to murder.

Did she ever think “Let me ask my parents if I can say with them” or “maybe a friend can help me out” or “Go to a woman’s shelter”…nope right to “I am going to kill him and he deserves it”

Joanna
10 years ago

And that’s wrong Brandon…. Killing is wrong.

Brandon
Brandon
10 years ago

@Joanna: Ya. No shit. The people here that are trying to make this woman look like anything else besides a cold blooded murder is my problem.

Lauralot
Lauralot
10 years ago

Brandon, maybe she didn’t have friends. Maybe her husband didn’t allow her to form relationships with anyone outside of the home. Maybe she had no access to money and maybe there was no women’s shelter or anything of the like nearby. Maybe he kept his car keys hidden and she couldn’t get far enough away on foot to avoid being found. Maybe her parents were also abusive.

Yes, killing is wrong. So is abuse. No one is saying killing is a good thing. They’re saying sometimes, for self defense, it is justified, but even then, should not go without due process. Get it through your thick skull.

%d bloggers like this: