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Men’s Rights Redditors: Guys who kill their exes — who can blame them?

A couple of intriguing quotes from Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit.

The topic at hand: A Redditor claims an ex falsely accused him of rape and caused him various other problems and basically acted like a shit. No one, of course, can possibly know if the guy is telling the truth, but the r/mr regulars all assume the alleged false accuser is guilty until proven innocent. (And maybe not even then.)

Naturally, some of the regulars use this as an opportunity to discuss how completely understandable it is when guys kill their exes.

Really, in this misandrist world, dudes murdering their exes is totally like slaves murdering their masters. Illegal, sure, but who can blame them? At least that’s how texaswildfires sees it:

 

Yep, in his mind, dudes today are totally in the exact same situation as slaves in the antebellum south — so when a guy murders his ex, the person you should feel empathy with is the murderer.

Naturally, both of these comments got upvotes, because that’s just how r/mr rolls these days.

 

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Aloren
10 years ago

Yeah because men don’t actually pick and choose like everyone else who they sleep with, date, or marry. It sucks when your trust is abused but it’s hardly as if your a slave to anyone. (if you are it’s abuse and wrong male or female, other gendered) Appropriating slavery suffering… Keeping it classy over at /mensrights.

ozymandias42
10 years ago

Is it bad that I’m not even surprised anymore?

“Oh, look, MRAs want to murder people. Like always. How boring. Can we get a more intereting misogynist here?”

darksidecat
10 years ago

One of these things is not like the other. Oh, right, one group is an actual group of slaves, the other is a bunch of appropriating mostly rich white dudes who hate women.

No, you can’t just revenge murder everyone who does something you don’t like. It isn’t that hard of a concept.

makomk
makomk
10 years ago

Aloren: errm, not really sure how to reply to that, because there’s a fair amount of support over here in the UK for the idea that women at least are somewhat justified in killing their abusive partner in cold blood, even when they had other ways out. In fact our government actually changed the law on murder sentencing to make sure women that did this got shorter sentences.

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Yeah… absent citation I’m going to look at any claim taht the UK actually biased the law towards women and not in a gender neutral way more as misunderstanding or jackassery. It would not be the first or last time.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
10 years ago

The more I hear about this false rape accusation bullshit, the more convinced I am that these men have no fucking clue what consent looks like. Also, they have no idea that the body parts they want access to are attached to a person.

I read a blog (can’t remember where) by this guy who said that every single woman he’d ever slept with had later accused him of rape, when they had clearly consented at the start. His conclusion: all women are lying bitches. My conclusion: this guy gets initial consent and then completely ignores his partner from then on. No picking up on cues that he’s going too fast, or too rough, or too weird, and it’s no longer fun for the woman. No noticing that her “yes, yes” has turned to “slow down, what are you doing, that hurts, stop!”.

So then he’s completely blindsided afterwards when she says he assaulted her. Because he’s bad at sex when his partner isn’t a Real Doll ™.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

@makomk – here’s some background for the benefit of non-UK readers: here’s a BBC summary of some of the cases that led them to propose this, and a summary of what the changes potentially mean (“potentially” because there haven’t been many test cases yet).

IANAL, but it seems to me that far from “making sure” that women who did this get shorter sentences, it merely allows more room to manoeuvre in terms of offering a legally acceptable defence. In particular, a defence of “loss of self control” no longer has to be based on a spur-of-the-moment incident. This tends to favour female defendants who, for obvious reasons, are more likely to kill abusive husbands in situations favourable to them (i.e. when he’s asleep or otherwise incapacitated) than they are in the heat of the moment, where there’s a strong possibility of retaliation. As a result, it’s more likely that someone like Kiranjit Ahluwalia, who killed her husband in such a fashion after a decade of regular rape and violent abuse, would find herself receiving a manslaughter rather than a murder sentence.

Interestingly, it seems that sexual infidelity no longer constitutes “gross provocation” in the eyes of the law.

MissPrism
MissPrism
10 years ago

Abusive partner != “ex who is getting up your nose” or even, if we take this guy’s claims at face value, “ex who is harassing you through the courts”.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

@MissPrism – yes, absolutely. “Abusive partner” in the legal sense is far more likely to mean someone who subjected his/her partner to prolonged violence, especially sexual violence.

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
10 years ago

Unimaginative, I have read a few blogs where MRAs discuss getting consent before hand in writing or text messages as pre consent before the act. In their eyes this protects them from FRA but there is no allowance for their sex partner to change their mind before the act or during.

Which is especially bad if you meet someone online they turn out to be a violent asshole in real life…

magdelyn
10 years ago

“Abusive partner != “ex who is getting up your nose” or even, if we take this guy’s claims at face value, “ex who is harassing you through the courts”.” (regardless of false child abuse, domestic abuse allegations or phoney TOP’s)

On the otherhand:

“Use of logic is abuse by men.” (http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/10/18/an-immodest-proposal-domestic-violence-groups-claim-the-use-of-logic-by-men-is-abuse/)

Got it.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

So, Dr. Tara’s not familiar with the scare quotes, eh?

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

Well, this makes me ever so joyful about the PPO I get to go serve on my friend’s ex for stalking and harassment. But it has to be done, and I have more confidence in my ability to come out on top if he decides to get physical – it’s odd, though, I’ve had guys who looked ever so ready to throw down with me while I was sitting in my car visibly wilt when I got out. funny, that.

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

This person is a doctor? Seriously? How does one get through medical school and still be that moronic?

And I love that Magdelyn thinks this is some kind of gotcha. Keep plugging away, mags, maybe some day something you throw against the wall will stick.

And I’m with ozy on the OP. I find it hard to be shocked anymore. Which is surprising because feminists are supposed to be the most easily offended people evar.

darksidecat
10 years ago

The thing is, women who kill their sleeping abuser in order to leave are acting in self defense, there shouldn’t need to be special dispensation for that circumstance.

As my criminal law professor pointed out, if this were a stranger who beat or raped a person (and maybe their kids), threatened to kill them (and/or their kids) if they tried to leave, etc., we would not question that the victim taking reasonable steps to escape, liking killing their attacker when the attacker fell asleep or turned away, when it came to self defense claims. It does not take an irrational person in an abuse victim’s position to reasonably believe the only way they and their children can escape alive is by using force.

Provocation has always been both overbroad (allowing ridiculous revenge murders in some cases) and underbroad (not properly allowing reasonable attempts to escape a very dangerous situation). Many states in the US have completely eliminated this defense as well. At least in the US, traditionally provocation defense have been more helpful to abusers who killed their exes/victims than to victims.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

Wow, magdelyn… thanks for wrecking my day with that link. Although I don’t see how “using pornography” counts as abusing someone, the “shrink4men” asshat completely misses the point about what he quoted. Can’t even say intentionally, because he probably believes that every woman needs a man to explain the truth and facts to her, and that women aren’t capable of having a valid and independent perspective that challenges a man’s claims.

Of course, isn’t that the biggest part of the strategy? You don’t have to deal with uncomfortable truths if you redefine “the truth” using your own made-up twisted “logic” so that your every claim is true by default and contradictions are defined out of existence.

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

Wow, that was written by a woman? Holy shitnuggets.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

“No, you can’t just revenge murder everyone who does something you don’t like. It isn’t that hard of a concept.”

But darksidecat, what are their other options? Don’t you see how feminism has backed them into a corner, and they have no option to just be the bigger person and walk away and…oh.

Every time these guys invoke the slavery metaphor (hi, Slavey!) I want to say, look, are you wearing actual manacles at this moment, that you did not put on willingly? No? Then find a better metaphor.

blitzgal
10 years ago

Wow, that was written by a woman? Holy shitnuggets.

She also argues that men who scream at women are probably only doing so because they’ve been browbeaten by the shrews. It’s your basic, “Why’d you make me hit you?” argument.

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

Taking a second look at the “Violent and Controlling Behaviors List” I notice that:
a) It is a self-inventory
b) It’s fucking checklist, so it doesn’t have too many in-depth explanations
c) It lists behaviors as different as “Rape,” “Uninvited touching,” and “Not taking care of yourself.”

So although the list is somewhat inscrutable, it’s about laying out patterns of abusive behavior within the context of someone examining their own abusive behavior. You can’t really take it as providing categorical statements such as “using pornography is abusive to your partner” let alone Dr. Taradiddle’s belief that it says “using logic is abusive.”

So magdelyn, are you going to acknowledge how silly this is or are you just going to run away having failed to make any kind of valid or relevant point whatsoever?

Improbable Joe
Improbable Joe
10 years ago

Moewicus, are we reading the same post from magdelyn? You seem to take from it the exact opposite meaning from how I read it.

@blitzgal: I’m not surprised now that she makes those sorts of arguments. She seems to be of the same breed as the “Fox ‘News’ Democrat” and the “black Republican”… opportunistic cretins who see the profit in speaking in opposition to some part of their identity in order to assuage the guilt of the oppressors, and gain both monetary gain and the benefits of being seen as one of the “good ones” by one type of bigot or another.

makomk
makomk
10 years ago

Wetherby: yeah, it’s actually superficially gender-neutral, though the intended goal is to reduce the sentence of women who do things like kill their abusive husband in his sleep. In practice there’s no way in hell it’s going to get applied in a gender-neutral way; it’s fairly easy to see that it’ll be a lot harder to for someone to convince a judge that they were in genuine fear for their life or the life of their children if they’re male or if their abuser was female, right? Our gender roles say that women are protecting and nurturing and men are strong and sometimes violent, and that hugely affects how the police and courts perceive their actions. (As a society, we even tend to be a lot more willing to justify mothers killing their kids than we do fathers.)

MissPrism: I seem to recall the discussion had drifted away from the original post a bit, though I’d tend to categorize trying to get other people to use violence against your partner or ex – including the state – as abusive unless it’s in self-defence.

no more mr nice guy
10 years ago

It’s not only on reddit, one commenter on Inmalafide defended honor killing to fight against false rape accusations and domestic violence charge : http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/10/28/mens-rights-activists-are-spineless-pussies/#comment-76288

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

Wetherby: yeah, it’s actually superficially gender-neutral, though the intended goal is to reduce the sentence of women who do things like kill their abusive husband in his sleep.

You’re a complete lackwit. It’s not the fault of women, nor is it evidence that women, and women only, can kill in cold blood just because the legitimately justified self defense case of the abused is being called legally justifiable, and the abused are more frequently women.

In practice there’s no way in hell it’s going to get applied in a gender-neutral way; it’s fairly easy to see that it’ll be a lot harder to for someone to convince a judge that they were in genuine fear for their life or the life of their children if they’re male or if their abuser was female, right?

No. No it isn’t obvious at all, actually. There’s not much reason to believe this is true aside from your assertion.

(As a society, we even tend to be a lot more willing to justify mothers killing their kids than we do fathers.)

You seriously think insanity pleas for the mentally ill is a ‘justification’?

Trollin'MRAs
Trollin'MRAs
10 years ago

No more Mr. Nice, I came for the honor killing creep, but stayed for the epic slapfight between PUAs (gamers) and MRAs!

“Gamers are the ants. The Mens Rights Movement is the flood.”

“Men’s Rights Movement, LOL! Why don’t you faggots just cut your dicks off now, because you’re clearly not men. ”

I CAME LOL BUCKETS. Oh, I long for the day the battles come to an end and the misogyny movement will finally be at peace! Or will they learn to work as one to slay the Feminyst dragyn? ONLY TIME WILL TELL….

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