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No, NiceGuy897393, your plan of hitting on your crush while she’s ovulating and hypnotized by your stinky “ferimones” won’t work

Dudes, there’s more to women than their eggs

By David Futrelle

Several years ago, a certain subset of pickup artists became obsessed with ovulation after reading (or hearing of) a study suggesting that women on the verge of ovulation tend to be especially attracted to the sort of hyper-masculine “alpha males” that PUAs spend so much energy pretending to be.

Indeed, some enterprising PUAs literally began tracking the menstrual cycles of various women they were attracted to, using spreadsheets or apps designed for actual menstruaters, so they could schedule their seduction attempts for when their targets would be at the height of their horny alpha-hunger.

This sort of talk has largely died down in PUA hangouts like the Red Pill subreddit after, one assumes, a lot of failures in the real world. (The “alpha male” part of the original study has basically been disproven, though it’s apparently true that cis women on average do get a bit hornier before they ovulate.)

But hope lingers on, at least in the heart of one lonely incel who posted a plaintive query in the Braincels subreddit earlier today (and then reposted it in the IncelsWithoutHate subreddit). His question? Well, you might as well read it for yourself.

Will my ovulation plan work? (self.Braincels)

submitted 5 hours ago by NiceGuy897393

Last year I got rejected by a girl and a few months ago I developed a plan where I would find out her ovulation schedule and only let her see me during that window of time. I also make sure that I am a little sweaty so my fermions get to her. I have been doing this since February but when I asked her out again this month she said no again, what am I doing wrong? I have done a lot of research about this and the science says that woman who are ovulating are attaracted to the men ferimons and are more horny. I have even been not showering a few days before i see her so my ferimones are more stronger but still no luck. Please help.

Alas, poor NiceGuy897393 got no useful advice, only mockery, in the Braincels subreddit, the main Reddit hangout for incels. The regulas in the IncelsWithoutHate subreddit were a little more helpful.

“That’s just not how it works,” wrote a commenter called

women are not just idk, looking for sex when they are ovulating. If you’re not their type, they won’t want you. + how the fuck did you get to know her schedule? And being sweaty doesn’t help most of time when you want to date someone.

A commenter called Cavedwelling offered an even more detailed answer:

People are a little more complicaited than that, People don’t really work like animals. Girls feel a plethora of things during their period, …

And humans aren’t attracted to the smell of sweat like animals. Sweat is a bad smell, girls would be alot more attracted to a touch of cologne than the smell of bacteria eating sweat in your armpits.

If she didn’t like you before, she still won’t want to fuck you then. It’s best to just talk to her and feel out the situation.

Woah. “Just talk to her?” Like she’s another human being? There’s a radical idea.

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96 replies on “No, NiceGuy897393, your plan of hitting on your crush while she’s ovulating and hypnotized by your stinky “ferimones” won’t work”

Someone should have told NiceGuy897393 that old ‘Kids in the Hall’ Skit where everyone became addicted to Scott Thomson’s BO was just a comedy Skit .


Sorry to hear that, wishing you a speedy recovery from the surgery!

Cool, so you’re just shaming two entire groups of people based on one person’s hygiene. Cool cool cool.


I live in Pennsylvania. When I moved here 22 years ago, I was amazed by the variety of moths everywhere. (I live in the woods.). Bubblegum-pink moths, giant ghost-white moths with wingspans shaped like bat’s wings, etc. Now, I only occasionally see moths, and when I do, they’re dull, muddy-colored, small ones.

Google “insect die-off”.

Then read “Dust”, by Charles Pellegrino.

Then shit yourself in fear.

We are in deep doo-doo and it isn’t only the climate. Habitat destruction, chemical run-off, and especially pesticide over-use are all also big contributors to destabilizing things.

Trump (and Ford, Bolsonaro, Orban, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, and etc.) and the plutocrat class are, by and large, fiddling while Earth burns.

Two years ago I was in a day clinic for mental health treatment.

Towards the end of my stay a guy I dubbed ‘Foul Ole Ron’ joined us.

His BO was so bad. In fact, it was so bad that the staff sent him home many times because they couldn’t inflict him on the other patients…

I had a small head injury once. So small that they could glue it shut, no stitches needed.

I couldn’t wash my hair for a week. I HATE the smell of unwashed hair.

And covering the hair with a hat only does so much…

In France, we say people have “atomes crochus” (crooked atoms) when they have reciprocal good feelings, but this is just a metaphor…


I used to share a house with a guy who didn’t shower, I mean literally didn’t. I tested this once – I had to work for a couple of weeks in a clean lab where you showered in, so I was showering every day at work. I left the shower head in the bottom of the bath so if he wanted it he’d have to plug it back in

It didn’t change position for two whole weeks and then it only changed position because I finished working in that lab.

I could literally smell when this guy was at home. I could open the front door and smell him.

I don’t shower every day, because I have dry sensitive skin which doesn’t like being washed and it’s also bad for your hair to shampoo every day. I don’t sweat much so I can get away with a day, but after about 48 hours, or if I’ve exercised, I get hyper-aware of how I smell and I start being really embarrassed about being around other people. Also if I don’t wash my hair every two days my scalp gets really itchy.

Two fascinating (to me) space facts:

25% of all working satellites currently in orbit were at least partially assembled in Stevenage*.

The assembly companies deliberately employ people who don’t regularly bathe or shower, because they have less flaky skin or something.

(*If you’ve ever been to Stevenage you’ll understand why getting off the planet might be a preoccupation)

@Surplus to Requirements:

I’ve read about the insect die-off numerous times. It is seriously terrifying. A few weeks ago, I was lying in bed in the morning, imagining how quiet the earth would be without insects. Of course, that’s not what’s alarming about insect die-off, but it seems like it would be so eerie.

Fifteen years ago, I couldn’t take a walk where I live in the summer without bug repellent. Now, I realize I’ve forgotten to wear it, and I’m not being eaten alive.

I lived in Pennsylvania for 3 years as a child, in the 70s. I used to pick wild blackberries in late August. Now, these berries are ripening in July.

All this, in a middle-aged person’s lifetime.

I know I should attempt to do something, but what?

@Alan Robertshaw:

OK, I looked up Stevenage. The photos in Wikipedia make it look rather characterless. It still looks to be rich in culture and history compared to, say, Dayton, Ohio. Sorry to all Ohioans. There are fascinating places in Ohio; Dayton just ain’t one of them, IMO.

there was recently a discussion about showering and dirtyness which I read in Twitter. It was a bit shit – someone basically volunteered to tell their habits, to admit that they were not as clean as they should be, and then became angry that people told them they should be cleaner and then tried to use disabled people and poor people and people with depression as a sheild. They didn’t need to say that “yeah I’m quite dirty” but they did. and then to use marginalised people who can’t always be as clean as they would like because of reasons they can’t control – that was quite shitty.

but anyway that’s not the reason I mention this. I mention it more to say I see this conversation about hygine a lot recently and I must not be alone in the fact that I am a kind of person who can become obsessed with some things? I don’t have any mental health diagnosis, but this talk of filth and germs makes me become very uncomfortable. its something that always effected me along with other things, and usually i keep sensible, but since that conversation in Twitter, I didn’t notice at first, but now my habits about washing became too much and too harsh. it is damaging my skin.

we need to be respectful about people’s personal habits and know what works for us does not always work for everyone else. and understand that even topics which are about simple things like showering can be upsetting for some people.

like kupo I am also concerned about this becoming the territory of shaming – even if I also have my own experiences with smelly people who don’t wash enough. what is the point to share them again and again and again? what is the final point of all those stories of smelly people? to be clear that you are not the filthy one? that is your business.

Since I started dialysis three months ago, showering has become such a huge endeavor that I only do it once a week, and in the meantime use hospital wipes and dry shampoo. I’m really not a fan of either, and despite my best efforts feel like I emit a constant set of “stink lines” like a cartoon character. No idea if anybody else notices, though.

I really don’t understand anyone who willingly goes this long without bathing. I really don’t.


I think it’s because hygiene is such a universal subject, that’s why there are so many anecdotes about it.

You do bring up a good point. Hygiene, for some people, is a luxury. At least in the US, toiletries are relatively expensive. If it’s a choice between food/ rent and toiletries, well, I know what I’d pick. There was a study recently that showed that 40% of Americans wouldn’t be able to afford a $400.00 emergency, if I remember correctly.

Different people need different amounts of showering, I think. I only get underarm and underboob sweat, I only sweat elsewhere when it’s super hot and humid. I could probably get away with showering every 10 days in the winter if not for the necessity of washing my hair. My skin won’t get oily and smelly, but my hair will.

What’s weird about me is that I can go a few days without showering and be okay until my hair gets gross, but I hate going more than a couple of hours without washing my hands. Dirty hands are the worst feeling.

I’ve read that people get oily if they overbathe because the glands compensate for the drying out effect of a shower. Not sure if that’s true though.

Thanks 4 mentioning Charles Pelegrino as he’s 1 of my favorites. M obviously behind as I wasn’t familiar w/Dust (&, yes, I probably will shit meself once I read it).

@Alan Robertshaw:
I’ve been 2 Stevenage. Don’t remember it being *that* bad (this was 2 decades or so ago so I imagine it might’ve changed).

Re the whole hygiene issue:
I’ve also read we can be too clean. The use of antiseptic wipes & Germix type solutions kill off good bacteria as well as the bad & seems 2 have given rise 2 our increase in allergies.


Ah, Husk Musk.

“We’re gonna have to seal up your pits, Dan….”

This could be an unpopular opinion, but I liked Scott’s Danny Husk character more than Buddy Cole. Thinking of also the Body Conscious sketch where he’s in a sauna with Dave Foley or the Try It Now sketch with the stubborn car and the classic where he reads about his own kidnapping in the paper.

*checks Google for skits* Hully crap, he’s even in his own graphic novel!,204,203,200_.jpg

Just as an aside, my brother recommended I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robinson on Netflix and I’ve watched three episodes only to pine for KITH. My brother seems to think I like the Tim and Eric style of anti-comedy more than I actually do. I never liked anti-comedy. Tim Robinson comes off as more obnoxious than anything, the jokes go on far too long, there’s no rhythm to any of it and it relies far too much on shouting inappropriate things that weird people out. It doesn’t help that Robinson doesn’t do the best straight man, which I think only underlines why sketch comedy really needs a troupe or ensemble to work well. Dave Foley was the consummate straight man for KITH. For 22 Minutes, it was usually Rick Mercer or Cathy Jones. Air Farce typically leaned on the British-born dignity of John Morgan or the tall and slender everyman Don Ferguson as foils for the goofy Luba Goy or Roger Abbott.

*sigh* I really hope the CBC has master tapes of Air Farce, because it will present such a perfect time capsule of the 90s Canadian political scene.

Yeah, too much washing is bad.

I take a daily, cool shower. I only use shower gel (soap is too harsh for my skin) on my arm pits and under my boobs.

I rinse my hair daily (it’s very short, trying to keep it dry is too much bother) but don’t shampoo it every day.

And on weekends, if I stay in, I don’t shower at all, to give my skin a rest.

I have no problem with people smelling sweaty. If people smell like piss or shit I get sick.

And sure, there are mental health reasons for having trouble staying clean. All the mental health nurses I know (from being in treatment) will hand you a bar of soap, scrubs, and a towel before sending you off to the shower…

What’s weird about me is that I can go a few days without showering and be okay until my hair gets gross, but I hate going more than a couple of hours without washing my hands. Dirty hands are the worst feeling.

Same. I have to wash them constantly when handling food, too, even if the next step involves getting them dirty again in 30 seconds.

I’ve read that people get oily if they overbathe because the glands compensate for the drying out effect of a shower. Not sure if that’s true though.

Yeah, it’s true. My face used to get super oily really fast. Then I reduced how often I shower. Now it rarely gets oily, and it’s only at certain points in my cycle that I need to use face wash. The rest of the time rinsing with water is enough.

For everyone saying how you don’t understand how anyone can go x amount of time without a shower, consider these things:

A) you’re making people feel bad about their personal choices in how to keep their body healthy and clean. That’s definitely not cool.

B) not everyone experiences life the same as you. Just because it’s uncomfortable for you, doesn’t mean it’s the same for them.

C) late stage capitalism has a vested interest in convincing you to buy more expensive soaps. And in convincing you that it’s not something you should ever, ever cut back on. It’s so ingrained in our culture that most people are horrified and disgusted that people exist who don’t shampoo their hair daily. Do you really want to be pushing their agenda for them? I don’t care what you, personally do. But maybe stop trying to prescribe a frequency of showering or bathing for everyone?


I was more trying to say that this topic can be triggering for some people with obsessions about cleanness. but I didn’t want to say triggering becauae I am not diagnosed with anything and I don’t think my obsession/interest/high sensitivity is very harmful. but I was trying to give this perspective – that many stories about dirty people or shaming people or talking in detail about this can be triggering.

Hmm, on the topic of personal hygiene… I just had a dentist appointment on the weekend and basically presented the results of two months of diligent flossing and brushing after I noticed my gums had become red from inflammation due to neglect for night brushing. The hygienist was glad he didn’t need to do as much work on the scaling component of the checkup and mentioned that healthy pink gums are better than 90% of the people he sees in the dentist’s chair.

I can appreciate that not everyone can afford either the equipment like an electric toothbrush or the time to brush regularly to stave off gingivitis, but I’m kinda appreciating the healthy gums and wish I didn’t spend so much of my 20s neglecting ’em. If anything, it just reinforces my firm opinion that dental care as a whole is neglected in government funding, not only in Canada, but around the world.

As for showering… I only know what works for me, which is a shower a day with Irish Spring (or whatever’s on sale at Costco) and Old Spice deodorant. Anything less leaves me feeling greasy and clammy. The 2013 power outages due to a winter ice storm kept me from hot water for four straight days. I ended up wearing a toque to cover up what a mess my hair was.


OK, I looked up Stevenage. The photos in Wikipedia make it look rather characterless. It still looks to be rich in culture and history compared to, say, Dayton, Ohio.

While Stevenage has existed since I don’t know when, the bulk of it today is a “new town”, one of the towns planned and built since WW2. There’s a lot of disdain for new towns in general, some of it justified. Indistinguished architecture, rapidly-built and now crumbling housing, an over-reliance on car ownership… you know, the sorts of things which are likely when the postwar government says “we need a shitload of new housing, and we need it soon”.

I’ve read accounts of people rehoused from London slum housing to a new town back in the day, and it’s quite moving: their wonder about being able to live in clean and spacious housing, surrounded by open space and greenery, breathing relatively unpolluted air. The planners genuinely believed they were building towns which would be better places to live, but it hasn’t entirely worked out that way.

Read Gary Younge’s account of growing up in Stevenage

Re: fermions, strange charm, etc…
Back in the 1980s, there used to be a comic strip called ‘Eureka’ by Munro Ferguson (who also directed some animated shorts for the National Film Board of Canada, and was the author of a very silly comic novella entitled The Adventures of Roberta). It would often play with math and science concepts. I may have mentioned it here before…

Panel one: tiny scientist floating in front of a shiny sphere and a spiky ball.
Scientist: Hello, I am Professor Teeny-tiny, and I am searching for the elusive top quark, also known as the truth quark.
Sphere: Hi there, how are you doing? I’m the Charm quark, and this here is my brother, than anti-Charm quark.
Spiky ball: Buzz off, creep.

Yes, that’s known as the Hygiene Hypothesis. It’s one of those things for which there’s a lot of circumstantial evidence of it actually happening, lots of arguments over the actual mechanics of how it would happen, and no real ethical way of creating a reliable test to make sure it happens. Which is why it’s still a Hypothesis.

The usual idea is that if children aren’t exposed to enough relatively harmless pathogens when young, their immune system never gets trained properly and can end up overreacting to something that should have been harmless. But again, there’s no firm agreement on exactly why this happens, and even some disagreement on whether it happens at all.

(I believe one of the big pieces of evidence came post-reunification of Germany, when doctors started combining medical records and running tests and discovered that, contrary to expectations, children in the dirtier parts of East Berlin actually tended to be less likely to have asthma than children who grew up in the cleaner parts of West Berlin.)

Panel two: tiny scientist floating in front of a cube and a messy scribble.
Scientist: Hello, I am Professor Teeny-tiny, and I am searching for the elusive top quark, also known as the truth quark.
Cube: Hello. I am the anti-Strange quark, and this is my brother, the Strange quark.
Scribble: Ftzgrlbl!

Panel three: tiny scientist floating in front of two identical spheres.
Sphere #1: Hi, I’m the Truth quark, and this is my brother, than anti-Truth quark.
Sphere #2: No, I’m the Truth quark, and that is my brother, than anti-Truth quark!
Scientist: Uh-oh.


reinforces my firm opinion that dental care as a whole is neglected in government funding, not only in Canada, but around the world

I’ve never understood why we have single payer health care (of a sorts) in Canada, but not a similar program for dental care. What strikes me as odd is that the government(s) will not pay for preventative dental work, but you can get “free” (and much more costly) emergency surgery to remove a tooth if it is neglected long enough through provincial health insurance plans. It seems like providing single payer dental care would be a clear case of investing a penny now to avoid paying a dollar later.

I also understand that in the ’70s the Saskatchewan NDP created a single payer dental program – only for it to be stripped and sold off in backroom deals by the subsequent (non-NDP) government at huge cost to the tax payers.

@Jenora Feuer:

Panel three: tiny scientist floating in front of two identical spheres.
Sphere #1: Hi, I’m the Truth quark, and this is my brother, than anti-Truth quark.
Sphere #2: No, I’m the Truth quark, and that is my brother, than anti-Truth quark!
Scientist: Uh-oh.


Scientist: If I asked your brother whether he’s the Truth quark, would he say yes?

There’s a big difference between not showering due to mental health/economic status, and deliberately not showering in order to get laid. One is life circumstance, the other is knowingly violating a social contract because having sex supersedes all else.

But mainly this guy is a jerk for thinking women go into estrus, just like animals, and are therefore easy to manipulate.

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

There is a big difference, but people here were talking about their own showering/cleaning schedules, and then expressing bewilderment about how anyone could *not* shower X times every Y days.

That’s where it starts to cross the line into shaming, which is something I was/am getting concerned about happening in this thread.

@Rhuu – Oh, I totally agree, I’m not comfortable with the direction the conversation is taking either. That’s why I was trying to refocus on the OP. Nobody here should feel shamed.

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants – Ah, okay, I misunderstood the tone of the comment. Sorry!

I’ll admit I liked the ‘Gordian Knot’ approach to that taken in the webcomic Order of the Stick, where they meet the standard truth-teller/liar combo: the rogue stabs one of the two in the foot, and when that one goes “Ahh! You stabbed me!” and the other one says “She totally did not!” they know which one is telling the truth.

That said, I also have a copy of Raymond Smullyan’s Alice in Puzzleland, which included several Knight/Knave puzzles, and then added Spies who could either lie or tell the truth, whichever suited their purposes. The last puzzle involved a court case with one of each of the three. At the end you’re told that the judge asked a question, got an answer, and that allowed the judge to solve the case. You’re not told what the question was or what the answer was. You’re then told that this story was told to someone else, who couldn’t figure what the answer was, and who asked what the question was. Once he knew what the question was, he could solve it even without knowing the answer (because only one answer would have a unique solution). And that is enough information to solve it even without knowing the question or answer, because there’s only one question the judge could have asked which would result in one answer with a unique solution like that.



Your comments about Stevenage reminded me of my first trip to Europe, which was to the Netherlands. We – my spouse and I – were told that people generally want to live in the old population centers.

We took a drive up to the north of Holland, where there’s all the land that’s been reclaimed from the ocean. Apparently, there’s not much interest in living or working on this ‘new’ land.

re: dental care

I’m an American on Medicare and Medicaid (disabled due to kidney failure), and one thing that is frustrating to no end is that together, they cover virtually everything EXCEPT dental care, for which they provide no assistance whatsoever. Despite the tremendous effect that dental dealth can have on overall health.

Dental care is generally not covered because it’s so expensive, and that’s for one simple reason: everyone (or very nearly so) has or had teeth, and they need an astonishing amount of care to keep healthy. Combine that with the fact that the vast majority of people don’t take proper care of their teeth to begin with, and you’ve got a perfect storm of continuous maintenance costs plus the increased cost of emergency care, which is remarkably specialized. That’s a lot of burden for even the most progressive single payer system to shoulder.

Not everyone gets cancer, or diabetes, or breaks a limb, etc. But everyone needs regular dental cleanings, plus a very large number will also require cavities filled, root canals performed, and wisdom teeth (not to mention damaged or decaying teeth) removal.

I’m not saying for an instant that, in any right-minded society, dental care shouldn’t be covered by the single payer health system. I’m just explaining why it isn’t, since I wondered the same thing once and did some research.

@Jenora Feuer:

If you think that’s bad, I’ve heard this one (and no, I don’t know the answer to it)

There are three Gods. They know everything and are omniscient, and will answer any question, but only once per person each, and only if it can be answered as “yes” or “no”. They do not speak otherwise. Their words for “yes” and “no” are “ba” and “da”, but you have no idea which one means which. One always tells the truth, one always lies, and one always answers randomly, and you can’t tell them apart. How do you question them to be certain you get the right answer, regardless of what you want to know?

@Katamount and Doethreetwoone – I think that dentistry should be (at the least) treated as a regular medical specialty, but it would be better if it was put on a level of a GP.

It took me until my mid-50s to realize that I’ve had some bad dentists in my life, which had a very detrimental effect on my mouth. I found an excellent dentist* three years ago and have put him on notice that he’s not allowed to retire until after I’m dead!

*Everyone in that office is really great, actually. Makes a huge difference! Totally random thing: The office is within walking distance of my house!

Not looking at that video until after I think about it myself.

Admittedly, I kind of like the whole ‘you have enough information to solve this problem now’ twist as a piece of information.

One classic version of that is the census taker who wants to know the ages of three children. The mother refuses to tell the census taker the individual ages, but she tells him the product of their ages is 36. She then tells him the sum of their ages, and the census taker says he still doesn’t know how old they are. Then the mother says that the youngest likes ice cream, and the census taker says, “Ahh, thank you,” and leaves. How old are the children?

Answer: the only possible sum for which the census taker wouldn’t know the ages after that point is 13, which could be 9,2,2 or 6,6,1. If there is a ‘youngest one’, that means 6,6,1 is the only answer.

I’ve seen the same puzzle starting with the product being 72, which gives an answer of 6,6,2 (instead of 3,3,8) instead.

Sometimes with puzzles like this, just knowing that there IS a solution with the information you have is enough extra information to find it.

(I have a copy of an old book of puzzles by Charles Dodgson, a.k.a. Lewis Carroll, around somewhere. Need to find that again.)

I’ve no problem with people who aren’t daily shower-ers. It’s just people who actually believe the garbage the subject of the article, Mr. NiceGuy believes (yes, there are some people like that) are pretty much deliberately trying to offend to get “notice” from the people they’re trying to attract (in their own realities, of course). They do this by “cultivating” their own scents in a variety of ways, many of which seem to involve avoiding soap and water for long periods of time.

In actuality, they’re merely harassing someone who’s not interested, and that’s definitely not cool.

@Katherine the Adequate

And harassing lots of people they don’t even intend to harass while they’re at it. That’s another part of this nonsense they don’t seem to think about: how can they be sure that their Manly Scent will only be directed at the woman they’re interested in? Or will all women be suddenly drawn to him, and he’ll get to reject the uggos, haha take that? What about the men who come into scent range? Are they just going to be intimidated and ease away, knowing that someone manlier than they are is around? What if TWO of these people take aim at the same woman? Do they have to have a scent-off?

What if TWO of these people take aim at the same woman? Do they have to have a scent-off?

Unquestionably so.

Years ago, via a regular link roundup post on Requires Hate’s old blog, I stumbled across a page written by someone based in Southeast Asia (I’m wanting to say it was Malaysia, but I’m not sure). The writer was taking Westerners, especially white Westerners, to task for their lack of hygiene, specificity the fact that Westerners don’t take showers 2+ times a day to keep their BO down to acceptable levels.

While having to take multiple showers a day might make some sense in a tropical country where the heat and humidity makes people sweat more, I (at least) have a bit of trouble figuring out how that would work in practical terms. Like, do all the businesses there have showers installed in all their restrooms so people can clean themselves on the go, or is everyone expected to commute home several times a day to shower?

And are you allowed to wear the same clothes all day between showers, or do you have to change them each time? The mind can’t quite figure the logistics on that idea to make it seem worthwhile for a huuuuuuge group of people to do THAT often a day.

Thank you to the folks who mentioned that not everyone is able to be hygienic.

When I was homeless it was one of the major indignities that really got me down. It took a lot of effort to stay as clean as possible, but it was no where near my standards.

After that, Ive been a lot less judgy, especially on the bus.

BUT! That doesnt mean it stopped being really awful to me to smell it, Im still a sensitive smeller, so much so I will get off that bus or move seats. What I wont do is make it your problem

There are men (and other people but in this case specifically as an odd toxic masculinity thing) who are deliberately inconsiderate about their scent for bad reasons (like I think the hippie reasons are understandable), but they are in the minority.

Some people also probably just cant smell themselves, hate showering, dont think its a big deal. Its annoying and ok to vent about and to delicately bring up in a sensitive way when necessary, but I dont think you should assume or be mean.

Apologizing ahead of time for necroing this thread, but just noticed Jenora’s response to me re the Hygiene Hypothesis and wanted to thank her/him/them for the info.

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