Categories
a voice for men antifeminism antifeminist women bullying cassie jaye empathy deficit entitled babies gaslighting harassment men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men paul elam

Red Pill director Cassie Jaye is accusing me of sending “bullying emails.” Here are the emails. Decide for yourself.

Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad
Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad

I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.

Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.

It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.

So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.

And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that

David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.

(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)

Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.

So let’s take a look at them, shall we?

I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.

In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why

Cassie,

We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.

But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.

It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.

It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.

I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.

I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.

I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:

Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.

Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that

Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.

I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.

I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.

And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.

I ended with this:

You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.

And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.

I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.

In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.

I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.

After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.

But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.

So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.

Here’s the whole thing:

David Futrelle <dfutrelle@gmail.com> Oct 30 (13 days ago) to Cassie Hi, Cassie, As you know, I am deeply disappointed by your apparent embrace of some of the internet's most toxic individuals, and that I think that you have compromised the integrity of your fllm by taking money from them. But there was no "threat" to you in my open letter to you, the claims of Elam and his fans notwithstanding. I do think you will come to regret your embrace of these people, in part because this is, as I explained in the open letter, a violation of your own stated principles, but also because these people are bullies with a habit of turning on their former allies, and if you don't give them the deeply biased film that they expect, they may turn on you, and you may become a target of harassment -- from them, not me. My question: Will Mike Cernovich be an Associate Producer on your film? As you know, he says he is, and since you Tweeted his post saying this, I can only assume this is true. But I wanted to confirm this with you.

She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.

I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.

Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.

Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter.  Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the  “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.

Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.

I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.

I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.

NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.

 

291 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mels
Mels
6 years ago

I love the drive-by trolls because they just storm in, mid-imaginary-argument, farting non sequiturs into the ether.

Carayak
Carayak
6 years ago

Lol, those tags did kill you, I was gonna pose the troll challenge to you but then you posed it and bad HTML, confusing people!

Forgive me my n00bness, as I forgive those who are n00bish against me.

Irene
Irene
6 years ago

“Spaz” is a slur in the US as well, just as much as “retard” and the like.

zennurse
zennurse
6 years ago

Trolls gonna troll.
of course, without reading anything David has actually written on the subject, just spew forth what they’ve seen on AVFM, Twitter et al.

One thing I meant to add before is that I hope Cassie includes all the proactive and effective actions and services the Men’s Rights Movement has created and maintained for men in need. You know, the rape crisis centers, the free legal services and counseling for DV, support for single fathers and their kids and the divorce support groups.

Oh, you say those services don’t exist?
OK, well then, nevermind.

raysa
raysa
6 years ago

I guess it’s too much to ask that we would end up getting just one troll that doesn’t come off sounding like a complete moron.

erica, ascendant
6 years ago

What truly amazes me is that the MRAsshole arguments are just a repeat of the same thing over and over again. Same misinterpretation of a CDC report. Same tired cries of ‘harassment’ when you ask them any questions whatsoever, but they’re fine when they come barging in and shit all over the floor, because it’s not harassment when they do it. Same, same, same, same.

And yet they expect that the genocidal agenda underneath the surface never be discussed. The reality that mainstream MRAssholes like Barnes and Esmay are transexterminationists? Boy howdy they get angry when that comes up. The close ties of the Men’s Rights Bowel Movement and “white nationalism”, a nice way of saying “white supremacists”? Nope, can’t talk about that either.

If you point these things out, they seem to believe it’s oppression on some axis. You know, the oppression that comes from facts and truth being pointed out to people who are desperately afraid of both.

The MRBM’s endgame is my elimination, along with doing actual harm to actual women of all sorts. You’ll pardon me for not rolling over and taking it.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

wanted to make it bias

Is this the new “RESPECTS IS EARN”? Can we have a memetastic contest with this theme?

Anne
Anne
6 years ago

You have my support and sympathy, David.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

@Anononononon

I think everyone here, there and everywhere knows that you’re scared of this film coming out. I can tell you what it’ll consist of. MRA’s giving statistics and sources for those statistics about real mens problems which aren’t being addressed, instead put aside for superficial problems first world women apparantly suffer from, like man spreading or sweat shaming.

Although many of us here are apprehensive about what will happen to Cassie Jaye once (not if but once) the MRM turns on her, no one here is scared of Cassie Jaye’s film. But thanks for the laugh! Personally, I cannot wait for this film to be released. Someone else commented here today that the film would be out in a year. I was crushed. I have to wait that long?! Not that I’ll pay to see it. But I’m very much looking forward to other commenters’ remarks about the film. Those remarks are bound to be smart and insightful. Plus maybe there will be a clip on YouTube. Fingers crossed!

You can tell us what this film will consist of? Nice to see that you’re not afraid to mansplain a film that is still in the making. And congratulations on your super psychic powers!

Yeah, thanks for pointing out the “superficial problems first world women apparently [fixed that misspelling for you — you’re welcome!] suffer from, like man spreading or sweat shaming.” These problems are definitely not problems. After all, if women in the third world have worse problems than we have, women in the first world must have no problems! Kind of like your problems with feminism (or at least what you consider feminism to be). People in third world countries are busy with much worse problems than your petty issues with feminism. Get a grip!

I recently saw a cartoon picture depicting 32 types of ‘anti-feminist’, and the very first one was a woman holding a sign saying “I dont hate men”. If NOT hating men, makes you an anti-feminist then you seriously need to re-evaluate your position within this movement because lets face it, by their own admission, feminists HATE you.

Wait — what feminists “by their own admission” hate us (other) feminists? Are these feminists who hate us the aforementioned cartoon feminists? Oh, okay.

Do you even know why she used Kickstarter to fund her project?

Why, yes we do. It’s because she didn’t have enough money to make her film. Thanks for asking!

I’m sure she originally planned to shame MRA’s, but I highly doubt it because she sounds like a woman with a modecombe of intelligence.

Of all your egregious grammar and spelling errors, “modecombe” is my favorite. Thanks for this gem. And because I’m a feminist and thus a nice person, I’ll tell you the correct spelling: modicum. It means “a small amount.” I’m not at all sure that Cassie Jaye will appreciate this “compliment.”

Would other commenters care to address other remarks made by this individual? There are so, so many to choose from!

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
6 years ago

This is probably the cartoon being referenced.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/32-types-anti-feminists/

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

All that aside, the real hate movement going on right now is this third wave neo-feminism, trying to be disguised as real feminism. Your actions prove it, along with many other man-hating plebs. I recently saw a cartoon picture depicting 32 types of ‘anti-feminist’, and the very first one was a woman holding a sign saying “I dont hate men”. If NOT hating men, makes you an anti-feminist then you seriously need to re-evaluate your position within this movement because lets face it, by their own admission, feminists HATE you.

HAHAHAHAHAHA my god, this is the funniest thing.
I have seen this little comic, it’s hilarious. This part is a mocking those girls holding signs like “I don’t need feminism because…”. It’s very very obvious.
No, dear, not hating men doesn’t make you an antifeminist. Being a woman who loves men and who believes the ludicrous idea that feminists hate men is what making them antifeminists.

You see, this comic doesn’t justify your prejudice. Instead, your prejudice is what makes women like the one in the comic exist.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

Also, why do all trolls mistake thing like “pointing and laughing”, “shaking head sadly”, “rubbing one’s eyes incredulously”, “feeling nauseous” with things like fear, rage and all sorts of extreme reactions?

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

This troll is hilarious, can we keep it? I literally laughed out loud at his interpretation of the comic.

Frank Torpedo
Frank Torpedo
6 years ago

I can’t stand Sargon of Akkad. The Youtuber, not the ancient king.

I can’t stand the fact that he has about a jillion subscribers, either! Who the fuck voluntarily watches his rubbish? He is rubbish! His videos are rubbish! Someone needs to just pick him up and put him in a garbage truck!

Mels
Mels
6 years ago

I quite like the title of Man-Hating Pleb, actually.

dhag85
6 years ago

Adding comics to the long list of things that are too difficult for MRAs to understand.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Argenti Aertheri | November 12, 2015 at 8:00 pm
*calms down* oh of course there are trolls, is PI around? PI takedowns are best takedowns.

I suppose I can step away from Fallout 4 streams (I recently learned that my PCs graphics card can’t even run the game at bare minimum graphics WHHHHHAAAAAAAAA) to deal with a troll or two. Lemme at ’em.

Jim | November 12, 2015 at 1:28 pm
So… who are these women that MRAs have actually hurt? You haven’t provided any instances.

Hello, yes, welcome to the blog. Before you knee-jerk all over the place, might I suggest you read a few more articles on this blog? Or hey, why don’t you talk to a few of our commenters, who have/had MRAs in their lives?

Here’s an article about Roosh V advocating for rape on private property. Because rape is a “learning experience”, apparently.

Here’s an article about Bash a Violent Bitch Month, which Paul Elam suggested to celebrate instead of Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Because if a woman half your size slaps you, you should be able to knock her the fuck out, amirite?

Here’s an article about a group of MRAs flooding a college with false reports of rape, thus making it so no one can tell what’s a false report, or an actual report.

Here’s an article about AVfM impersonating the White Ribbon organization, which advocates and assists women who have been in abusive relationships.

What’s that? You what instances of physical violence?

Oh, well here’s an article about a woman who was murdered for being a feminist and calling out sexist behaviors of a football team, and here’s a post about an MRA that blames her death on jokes about “misandry”.

Of course, if you’d like to find some more instances of physical violence, you can most certainly find some more on this blog, or talk to other commenters.

Also, she seems pretty reasonable here

Really? She’s calling David a “bully” for pointing out the people lavishing her with money and praise at the moment could turn on her and tear her apart, and she herself has admitted to being stalked by someone she interviewed.

But yeah, she’s being “reasonable” by starting a fight with David over him showing legit concern for her, instead of condemning her stalker and not making jokes about having to “go into hiding” if the MRAs don’t like her movie. Uh huh.

and even admitted that the lens she started with wasn’t what she finished with.

Why is it people keep insisting that we need to wait until the movie comes out, when our concerns, or the article you are commenting on isn’t even about the movie, but about actions taken by the director thereof? If anything, the fact that she’s directing this movie is merely context for the actual story.

This article has nothing to do with her movie. At all.

I don’t understand why this is looked at as toxic when it is raising issues about men?

Because the only time MRAs raise issues about men, it’s to silence feminists instead of helping men. Paul Elam of AVfM, one of the people Cassie Jaye interviewed for her movie, admits he doesn’t give a shit about actual activism beyond “yelling at feminists on the internet”.

No feminist would give a shit if MRAs actually took care of those issues that effect men or took steps towards helping men, but MRAs would rather sit around, yell that feminists aren’t doing the work for them, and simultaneously blame women and feminists for all their problems, instead of looking at what actually causes them and addressing that issue, which some feminists actually do.

What’s toxic about MRAs is their misogyny, and the toxic masculinity they cling to, even though it’s actually the source of a lot of problems they claim to care about and claim to champion.

Sure there are radicals with toxic ideas, but there are radical feminists with toxic ideas too.

Ah, the old “both sides do it!” gambit. Tell you what: Call me when someone’s murdered over being an open MRA.

There are radical feminists with toxic ideas, but a feminist has never murdered someone because they didn’t like what someone had to say.

And if you bring up Valerie Solanas (as it seems to be inevitable when this topic comes up): One, that was decades ago, two, she didn’t shoot Andy Warhol over feminist issues, only personal ones, and three, Warhol wasn’t killed when she shot him, he died later from a sudden post-operative cardiac arrhythmia that occurred in his sleep while he was recovering from gallbladder surgery.

In fact, should you lurk more and talk a little less, you’d see that all of us here at WHTM condemn violence and harassment, no matter who it’s perpetrated against.

Grouping an entire lot together based on the outliers is pretty ignorant.. You’re coming off like a hack, be better.

You’re more than welcome to provide evidence that these people are indeed “outliers”. We’ve yet to see any. In fact, just from the fact that this blog has gone on for as long as it has, it would show that maybe these groups and their ideologies aren’t exactly “outliers” at all, but rather the whole damn thing, if not most of it.

bvh
bvh
6 years ago

@Luzbelitx

Also, why do all trolls mistake thing like “pointing and laughing”, “shaking head sadly”, “rubbing one’s eyes incredulously”, “feeling nauseous” with things like fear, rage and all sorts of extreme reactions?

At a guess, half projection, half attempted provocation.

zennurse
zennurse
6 years ago

Oh I love the smell of PI Trollbashing in the morning!

Blessings to everyone, especially David. You are our hero.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Shit. Doublepost. My bad. David, can you delete one of those? And ALL HAIL THE BLOCKQUOTE MAMMOTH FOR IT IS MIGHTY AND HUNGRY.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

@Argenti

I can make all kinds of animals from my phone, but I don’t know if WordPress will take them.

These are especially for you (and anyone else who needs cuteness):

????????????????????????????????????

I wish I had a narwhal *sigh*

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

In homage to Cassie, I took ten minutes to take this picture of my beautil self with my beautiful Oscar for best actress (I played a tree in Wizard of Oz) and my Noble prize of Medicine (for basical knowledge of human anatomy)

[IMG] http://i65.tinypic.com/otpu8h.jpg [/IMG]

(I am sorry if that’s too much, I have been itching to do this for days now.)

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

http://i65.tinypic.com/otpu8h.jpg

Maybe now? Ugh, I can’t code.

1 4 5 6 7 8 12
%d bloggers like this: