Categories
a voice for men antifeminism antifeminist women crackpottery evil wives evil women internecine warfare men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny MRA no girls allowed paul elam

Men Going Their Own Way tell Paul Elam to go away. BONUS: The terrible new MGTOW anthem

Men Going Their Own Way can't decide which way to go.
Men Going Their Own Way can’t figure out which way to go.

Oh dear. Paul Elam’s attempt to anoint himself King of the MGTOWs doesn’t seem to be going terribly well, mainly due to the fact that the overwhelming majority of those who call themselves Men Going Their Own Way would prefer it if he went his own way off a short pier.

His new ebook on MGTOW — despite receiving rave reviews from people who work for him at A Voice for Men — has not done quite as well amongst the MGTOW masses, many of whom are posting one-star reviews on Amazon.

Their complaints are a mixture of the reasonable and the ridiculous. On the one hand, they accuse him of being a con artist trying to cash in on their little movement with an ebook made up mostly of stuff that’s already been posted on the internet. On the other, well, they think he’s some kind of quasi-feminist supplicator to women who’s committed a sort of treason against his fellow men by not banning all women from AVFM. No, really:

 43 of 62 people found the following review helpful 1.0 out of 5 stars Story of a Shill, January 2, 2015 By  Brad P. - See all my reviews This review is from: Go Your Own Way: Understanding MGTOW (Kindle Edition) Paul Elam is almost universally hated in the MGTOW community and this book is his attempt to hijack and appropriate a fledgeling philosophy in order to make a cheap buck at best, or at worst subvert and pervert it.  MGTOW began as a direct reaction for men to be aware the risks of marriage and relationships with women, including the conception of children, and to either mitigate the risks on their own terms or protect themselves completely by practicing abstinence from sex, relationships and economic engagement in the face of a gynocentric structured tax system that unfairly transfers benefit and subsidy to women at the expense of men.  But Paul Elam is a known supplicator to Feminists as a means of getting a pass as a moderate and promoting his AVFM network and profiting from male suffering. Feminists are the direct culprit responsible for creating a toxic society that is extremely hostile towards men. Paul Elam advocates for traditionalism and insists that married men can be MGTOW too when that is the exact antithesis of MGTOW. In Western developed nations, traditionalism and marriage only serve to compromise male sovereignty, savings, sanity, and safety. Paul Elam's general conduct has alienated the best thinkers and contributors previously at his misguided website, as well as many other former subscribers.  MGTOW is about liberating men without any reservation, apology, or reverence to political correctness.  Between VAWA and divorce law, married men can only think they are going their own way. Only up until Princess Cupcake becomes unsatisfied and calls in Big Daddy Government to rough him up and take him away.  Save your money and time and PASS.

On their own websites, Elam’s MGTOW haters are even more blunt. Here’s what one commenter on MGTOWHQ had to say:

Re: reviews on paul's mgtow book aren't looking too nice  Postby comedian » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:49 pm Personally, I always thought Elam was an agent of the plantation. Call himself a MGTOW leader, get a bunch of guys under his wing and gradually suck up to the twats towing his supposed MGTOW brigade behind him. That's what happens when you allow twats into your forum. I think it was a deliberate move on his part. To sum up, water down MGTOW to the point where it isn't MGTOW, it's men going Elam's way; back into the grinder.  His book isn't even worth the price of a McHappy Meal.

But my favorite response so far comes from a Youtuber who calls himself TheMadShangi. A few months ago, Mr. Shangi was a loyal AVFMer; indeed, he contributed a post to Elam’s site gleefully recounting how he’d been such a royal pain in the ass to me on Twitter that I stopped responding to him. (Or, as he put it, How I made David Futrelle cry and ragequit on Twitter.)

Well, these days he’s singing a different tune. Literally. Here’s his musical critique of Mr. Elam and his book.(The bit at the beginning is from a video Elam made baiting his MGTOW haters.)

Both sides in this MGTOW civil war are so thoroughly terrible I can only hope that they both go down in ignominious defeat, leaving us, the amused spectators, the only real winners.

219 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

A turn of the century version of Sunshine Mary! The 19th century, I mean.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

Huh, 1907. And in 1914 men in their millions were recruited, drafted and volunteered and soldiers. Everyone of whom had some version of the “hussif” mending and maintenance pack (say housewife quickly and you get the idea). They all had to sew on their own buttons, darn their own socks and work in the kitchens and do all the rest of it with no woman in sight until they got themselves wounded badly enough to go to a hospital. And they managed perfectly well. The great majority of those who survived the war married and some of them even continued doing those things if it turned out that they were better at it than their wives happened to be.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

pfffft. …. as soldiers.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

My father taught my mother how to knit. He was born in the late 1930s.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

I wish someone out of Mr C and I knew how to darn, it would come in handy. Alas, failure at that is something we have in common.

katz
7 years ago

And in the past 108 years, they still haven’t explained why women would want to be with someone who was literally only interested in them because of their cooking and sewing ability.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Yes, artificial wombs are a real thing that scientists are working on.

*S* I actually know a radical feminist who argues that inventing artificial wombs is super important if feminism is gonna go anywhere, because the whole reproduction thing is at the roots of patriarchy. (She’s not a TERF though; she argues that the root of transmisogyny is that trans women can’t bear children like women are “supposed” to do, so they’re included in the theory.) I’m not sure whether I remember exactly how this argument went (and I’m definitely not sure that I completely buy, although I must say I think that there’s something to it), but basically, men are motivated to control women in order to control reproduction. Women must in various ways be steered away from things that might interfere with precious reproduction, and pushed into seeing “being the subject of a man, having his babies” as their primary goal in life. Plus being pregnant and giving birth is still fairly dangerous. In Sweden and many other western countries it’s extremely rare to actually die from childbirth, sure, but getting some kind of permanent damage to your vagina area is much more common than medical professionals are usually willing to admit, plus the very pregnancy might be problematic in various ways – but all medical problems surrounding this must be downplayed as “natural” and “no big deal at all”, since otherwise women might begin opting out, and we can’t have that!
So basically, her feminist utopia includes that no one needs to actually be pregnant and give birth in order to produce new humans – people still could if they wanted to, but it would be regarded more as engaging in an extreme sport rather than the natural duty of all women everywhere. Of course, this line of reasoning presupposes that men in general don’t hate women just for the sake of hating women, as the MGTOW seem to think is perfectly natural, and be all like “finally we don’t need the women any longer, let’s go live in a cave alone with our artificial wombs!”

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

My favourite artefact from the Mary Rose exhibition: a sailor’s sewing basket. Needles, threads, bits of ribbon (with designs identical to ones I had). Gosh, a man who could sew in 1545! How could this be?

Not to mention tailors and the like. Because men can’t possibly learn those skills, nosiree.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Quiringh_van_Brekelenkam_-_Tailor%27s_Workshop.jpg/389px-Quiringh_van_Brekelenkam_-_Tailor%27s_Workshop.jpg

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

And cooking! Name a show that has a real chef as the focus. Is the chef a man?

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
7 years ago

Usually!

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago

When men do it, it’s High Art.

That goes for emotions, too. Whenever men are angry, or head over heels in love, it’s Serious Business, worthy of its own Hollywood screenplay. When women have these same emotions, we’re silly, irrational, or stalkers.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago

Love that painting, kittehserf! Have you seen “Tim’s Vermeer”?

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Ellesar,

Hey Peeps – off topic, but I just wanted to share that my 15yo son yesterday spontaneously said that white males are the most privileged people in society. He is also an avid gamer who paid no attention to gamergate. Yes, manosphere, take that!

Kids get it.

My son asked me “Why are there hardly any black people in movies?”. My jaw, she dropped. He starts giving examples for why that’s weird.

At school there were fewer white people, but in movies there are so many white people. What’s with all the white people?

We had just watched Jeepers Creepers 2 and he pointed out that there were only 3 black people in the movie and that was still more black people than he usually sees in movies.

Before long he’s asking questions about why we need separate bathrooms in public but not at home. “Where do girls like Rori (who is trans) go to the bathroom?

He’s a kid. He likes to watch cupcake wars and dreams of being a trucker. He can see and articulate things these Men Doing Stuff on Their Own One Day movementeers throw mantrums (man tantrums) about when confronted with. Just a suggestion that everything isn’t about them they come unglued.

These guys lack the emotional depth and reasoning abilities of a tween.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Of course, my husband has taught him the ways of misandry. He’s teaching our son to tie his own ties. He’s a sharp dressed boy. He’s considerate, polite and responsible. He’s likes fuzzy wuzzy animals and takes good care of his. Yep, he’s nurturing just like his dad. I’m sure all of that is oppressing his true, rude, pompous, Cheeto wallowing nature. It’s really a shame he’ll never be gross enough or hate ladies enough to be a Real Man ™. Oh the misandies of it all!

Bina
7 years ago

My favourite artefact from the Mary Rose exhibition: a sailor’s sewing basket. Needles, threads, bits of ribbon (with designs identical to ones I had). Gosh, a man who could sew in 1545! How could this be?

Not to mention tailors and the like. Because men can’t possibly learn those skills, nosiree.

My grandfather was a tailor. And my dad and uncles all know how to cook. In fact, one of them so likes to cook that he’s taken that task over while his wife does the accounting for the family business. Strangely, though, not one of these guys has ever made noises about doing without a woman…

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
7 years ago

Even if artificial wombs are created what are these guys doing to do about eggs? And mothering the children? The only way I can see this happening is if they’re willing to pay women significant money to donate eggs and then raise them, and then they’re right back at square one but without the relationship part. In fact they’ll probably have to cough up MORE money than if they were in a relationship, as she won’t be motivated by love.

They really haven’t thought this through, have they?

grumpyoldnurse
7 years ago

her feminist utopia includes that no one needs to actually be pregnant and give birth in order to produce new humans – people still could if they wanted to, but it would be regarded more as engaging in an extreme sport rather than the natural duty of all women everywhere

I think she may be onto something! I wouldn’t mind having more children, I just never, never want to be pregnant again. Never.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago

Ditto, grumpyoldnurse. I’d be first in line for an artificial womb.

I can’t help feeling that they would be used against women somehow, the same way daycare is – ” oh, you’re not a Real Woman who carried her own child for nine months, you’re a selfish careerist who outsourced her fetal development to technology.”

@sunnysombrera Good point – it makes me glad eggjacking really isn’t a thing. They’d probably have to pay a hefty jackass premium to convince a woman to donate privately, or go through some unspeakable black market. They wouldn’t pass the screening process with a reputable agency.

It isn’t really about the kids, though, is it? It’s about having a little genetic trophy to prove that you’ve had sex and your liquid gold thingys can swim.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
7 years ago

Buttercup: also a good point. They’d have to lie about themselves AND cough up dosh to convince a woman to donate, especially if it’s through a black market. They’d be in even more of a fix if they decided they only want kids from “high quality” women i.e 5-10% of the female population. Then what? Stoop to kidnapping and forced surgery? That’s a crime there fellas. And again, who is going to raise the kids?

You know what, if you put the right author to the task you could squeeze a decent Sci Fi dystopian novel out of all their drivel. Shame Aldous Huxley is dead.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
7 years ago

And yes, it’s not about having kids for the sake of having a kid to love, it’s about having a little mini-me as proof of manhood. They’ll have no idea what to do when their human shaped trophies start talking back and thinking independently. What if the kids (well, teens) reject the ideology? How will the MGTOWs teach strong minded daughters to shut up and submit? What if any of them escapes the commune?

Oh man its starting to sound like a cult now.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
7 years ago

You know what, if you put the right author to the task you could squeeze a decent Sci Fi dystopian novel out of all their drivel.

Or a really good, non-depressing novel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_of_Athos

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

I’m not sure if it’s possible to make a kid from two sperm, but I read somewhere that if there artificial wombs a kid could be made from two eggs. It seems like they endanger men more than women. Since eggs don’t have Y chromosomes all those babies would be girls. The ultimate misandry!

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
7 years ago

I’m not sure they’d want to make a kid out of two eggs when everything revolves around them and their liquid gold. Like, I think they’d rather it was possible to make a kid out of two sperm. (They could still wind up with girls though).

catmara
7 years ago

Quite accidentally, I recently came across an article in Wikipedia that describes an actual historical occurrence of Men (and Women!) Going Their Own Ways: Beguines and Beghards. These were self-organising religious communities in Middle Ages Europe. People who joined them, although celibate, would not take permanent vows like regular religious orders, only staying as long as they felt they needed to.

Alas, they seem to have been charitable in outlook and are thus incompatible with the libertarian bent of most modern MGTOWs…

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

I think she may be onto something! I wouldn’t mind having more children, I just never, never want to be pregnant again. Never.

Yep. All of that^

I love babies and kids. Pregnancy was not awesome and there is no way in hell I would do it more than once. If I could have avoided it then, that would have been great.

1 3 4 5 6 7 9
%d bloggers like this: