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Misogyny Theater 4: Everybody Wants to Shag the MRAs

Misogyny Theater is back with Episode 4!

If you paid any attention to A Voice for Men’s recent conference in – well, near – Detroit, you probably heard about the guy who was ejected from the conference after reportedly “petting” a reporter and a number of other men. (You can read about him here.)

In this episode of Misogyny Theater, we return to the Man Going His Own Way who calls himself Sandman to hear his highly speculative theories about this gentleman and his activities.

Sandman also warns Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers that if they get together in large groups, they will inevitably attract opportunistic sex-seekers eager to take advantage of the man surplus for their own perverse ends. Apparently, angry dudes who hate women are like catnip to gay men and straight ladies alike.

The audio for this little cartoon of mine comes from Sandman’s video “Men’s Rights Molester.” I have indicated edits in the audio with little scratchy sounds. And I’ve bleeped out the name of the alleged molester. Otherwise it’s all straight Sandman.

My previous Misogyny Theater episode featuring Sandman can be found here.

Crowd chatter and buzzer sounds from FreeSFX.


240 replies on “Misogyny Theater 4: Everybody Wants to Shag the MRAs”

That is quite a flood but I’m distracted by there being a highway in Australia called the “Bruce Highway.” Or do you call it Bruce just to keep it clear?

It was a hell of a flood (fucking scary I’ll tell you) but flood/drought is standard weather here 🙁 Before the 2? years of floods we had the worst drought in 100yrs and now we’re back in drought again. Hopefully before it gets >25% dam capacity, our politicians will figure out how to do drought relief properly.

Has it got worse in recent years, wewereemergencies? I know it tends to extremes anyway in Queensland. I blame Joh.

My sister and BiL arrived in Gympie the day of the floods. Trust them to time it like that!

The dams are still pretty full atm – we’re not on restrictions or anything. But the lack of rain means we’re likely to head there pretty fast – I remember Xmas was the first sunny one we’ve had in years. I’m blaming the idiots who had all that fuss over new dams and a desalination plant that they abandoned at the first sign of rain, and the ones who didn’t take flood-reducing measures. It’s going to happen again.

They did indeed have good timing kittehs! That would have sucked.

@pallygirl: Oh, and I’m in a stupid argument with a privileged white guy again

Blow it out your ear, you opinionated stroppy-

about how low income people just choose not to feed their kids properly, and they just need budgeting services

Oh, right. Some OTHER stupidly arguing privileged white guy. Never mind then.

Shhh don’t tell anyone that Joh was a kiwi.

You obviously didn’t get the memo. Whether or not a trans-Tasman migrant is “Kiwi” or “Aussie” depends entirely on whether we want to claim him. Joh, he’s now officially an Aussie. Phar Lap, always a Kiwi. Russel Crowe – well, it depends on whether he’s dating a supermodel or throwing phones in hotel rooms.

Shhh don’t tell anyone that Joh was a kiwi.

Oh so it’s all YOUR fault!

@Phoenician – rather like Andy Murray’s British when he wins and Scottish when he loses.

Playing catch-up as per usual:

Re: libertarians and GMI – this one got me curious, so I googled it and found an interesting critique of the idea. I think it’s a stretch to call it a libertarian principal per se, but there do seem to be some adherents who think such a thing would be compatible with their goals (mainly, cutting a check in place of instituting hundreds of paperwork-heavy programs would reduce government size). It seems that there are some libertarians out there who’re interested in social justice. They seem to be greatly outnumbered by the Objectivist-flavored variety though. Sad.

I often think regular non-rich people can beat the system and bleed the beast instead of making the rich richer. What about entire extended families (or a group of friends for those who don’t want to live with or near kin) pooling their resources, buying land, building houses and growing their own food? That land stays in the family. When the older peeps die, the young ones and their new generation fill their rooms. Money is saved by simply not buying what Big Corporate pimps: the cosmetics, soap, toothpaste, shampoo, etc can all be made from scratch. Nobody shaves or waxes (that also kills that silly “beauty standard” in one swipe), whatever cars are needed are shared, clothes are upcycled and/or made by hand, etc. This will starve millionaire and billionaire CEOs of both a labor base AND a consumer base all in one!

My mother-in-law grew up this way. Communal multi-generational family living on a farm. Consumed mostly what they grew. Had land and livestock and crops.

She ended up emigrating to the United States when she was in her mid-thirties. Because this was a hard way to live. It’s backbreaking labor that makes you old at forty, and if you’re really existing from the work of your hands the sweat of your brow, there’s no guarantee that everything will turn out okay. There were years of drought, years of floods, and years of just inexplicably bad crop yeilds. My MIL starved sometimes. Everybody starved. She has stories about having to rip out flower beds to plant more peppers, stories about not making enough milk to feed the babies and having to borrow yogurt from a neighbor because everybody else’s cows were dry. My MIL misses the family and the togetherness, but she does love having enough to eat.

I think that the idea of sticking it to the man by embracing traditional agriculture is most attractive when you can opt back into the system at any time. I know that I enjoy my gardening and my canning and my bread-baking and sewing, but I’m also secure in the knowledge that if shit hits the fan, and I get sick or tired or just want to take the kids to the park, I can buy something ready-made. I have leisure time that my MIL never knew at my age. My kids don’t have my husband’s slightly bowed legs, because we’ve been able to feed them a variety of nutrient-rich foods (instead of whatever we could manage to coax out of the ground at the time). Modern industrial agriculture is a mess, consumerist culture is unsustainable, and most of us in the Western world could definitely live more lightly. But the advantages that modern society has given us sure are sweet.

What you said Flying Mouse. I have no desire to be a subsistence farmer. None whatsoever. For all the reasons you outlined with your MIL.

The notion that we can only have social and economic justice if we opt out entirely is not attractive to me. Neither is giving up on my fellow citizens. People’s attitudes can change. The polls show that more and more people are believing that the system is rigged (too lazy to look for citations, maybe later) and that’s the first step. I think a new New Deal is possible in the future even though it seems impossible right now. Look at how dramatically opinion on marriage equality has shifted in the US in the last ten years. A year is a lifetime in politics. Don’t ever assume the status quo is permanent. That kind of defeatist attitude plays right into the hands of the Koch brother types. It’s exactly how they get away with it.

Also, I happen to live near some intentional off-the-grid religious communes.

And I happen to, um, sorta belong to one.

Long story.

But, yeah, the next generation is opting to simply go into massive debt and try to make it on their own, because you know what? After thirty years doing this stuff folks are massively set in their ways and it’s a lot of work and you can really grow to hate somebody after thirty years of having to swallow back any rage at what they say because you’re stuck with them, rain or shine.

Flying Mouse: I’m increasingly a proponent of the GMI myself. As you point out, it’s not _necessarily_ incompatible with libertarian thought, since it still provides for a free market, increased individual economic freedom, and the opportunity for personal advancement through capitalist means. Heck, you could probably even eliminate the minimum wage, since the GMI would allow people to opt out of shit jobs if they don’t pay enough to make them worthwhile, and having an extra couple bucks an hour over the GMI is still incentive for many people to take a job.

Unfortunately, I think it’s incompatible with a core emotional driver which leads many people to the Anarcho-capitalist / Objectivist / Republican-compatable strain of libertarianism; the desire to punish “failure”.

You can see it in discussions of the minimum wage, or social services: If the poor didn’t want to be poor, then they wouldn’t be. If they wanted more wages, they wouldn’t work at Walmart. If they wanted to retire, they should have saved up. If they didn’t want to be bankrupted by medical expenses they should have taken better care of themselves.

It’s nasty circular reasoning: They’re poor because they’re bad people, and you can tell they’re bad people because they’re poor. It’s also got a worse escape clause: I’m a good person, therefore if I succeed, it’s my virtue, but if I fail, it’s not because I’m a bad person, but someone else must be to blame.

Unfortunately, I think it’s incompatible with a core emotional driver which leads many people to the Anarcho-capitalist / Objectivist / Republican-compatable strain of libertarianism; the desire to punish “failure”.

Oh, definitely. I think it says something that I was first introduced to libertarianism in the mid 90’s, have subsequently done a fair bit of reading in the subject matter, and this is the first time I’ve run into the concept that social justice *might* be an acceptable goal in their philosophy. Most of the libertarians I’ve run into, both IRL and online, are strictly Randian lions. They would spit on GMI as rank collectivism.

Katz, kitteh, et al — yeah, the ability to go off grid with any particular resource is certainly regional, trying to go solar in Finland just wouldn’t work either f’ex. I did the math for Pittsburgh, and did some testing with other parts of the east coast, never got further away than that.

@HB: …well, what about when he’s being wonderfully opinionated on Twitter? Who gets to claim him then?

Good enough. He can keep our passport.

Strange fact of the day – my wife is something like his third cousin.

Did Jackie French own that bit of land, or was she renting it? Because I can’t see many landlords (those whose property even includes a back yard, these days) being happy at tenants turning their precious investment into a farm.

Can’t remember (and the book is still packed up in a box somewhere). But I’m fairly sure it was one of those rural arrangements you sometimes hear about on the outskirts of country towns or on some farms. Owner allows someone to live in an old outbuilding or derelict house on the basis that they pay no rent and expect no maintenance or improvements in the already leaky/ dodgy/ ramshackle housing provided. Nor will the owner upgrade or maintain any fencing to protect a garden from rabbits, wombats, livestock or anything else.

Her experience taught her a lot of things about growing and storing various food and other items when you have no power or running water. It also taught her that it’s no way to live in the longer term, it’s survival only. It’s good to know that you can survive if you have to. But you shouldn’t have to, at least not for very long.

@ mildlymagnificent:

There are a lot of those types of arrangements in the interior of my state. My mom and dad started in a little ramshackle house they bought for really cheep in the permafrost bogs, but they couldn’t bring themselves to sell it once they could afford a nicer place (with actual real running water instead of honey pails! And real heat without having to stoke a wood stove every 4 hours!) further up the hill.

They didn’t really want it to sit empty, but knowing exactly how much work living in the place could be in the middle of winter, they didn’t really feel like they could charge rent without feeling really guilty. The arrangement ended up being (with the first few rounds of folks who stayed there) that they could live there and do anything they wanted with the place, so long as they didn’t damage it worse than what the weather could do to it. No blaming tennets for permafrost heaves, or roof overloads from snow, or earthquake damage, and that kind of stuff.

If they wanted to paint the walls? Sure. Go ahead. Want to try and develop the land? Good luck with that…

Dad would go down and help out, whenever the folks staying there would tell him about things that were a problem, or if they had ‘plans’ that he thought were interesting. He’d also front the majority of the supply costs for projects if they ran them by him first, and they sounded like they might actually be workable.

The first guy who lived there ended up not being very good at fixing anything, so Dad would generally have to redo anything the poor guy tried to do, anyway.

Dad said it was just like having a teenage son, sometimes.

I think my folks still have the property. The last guy who stayed there was working on an art major (sculpture specialist, with a preference for metalwork), so he actually knew how to do things! He was also a really good cook. My sister and I would go over in the middle of the night to help work on the house, play settlers of Catan, and eat delicious lasagna.

It’s a little dodgy, yes, but it can be a good way for someone to get a start.

Katz, kitteh, et al — yeah, the ability to go off grid with any particular resource is certainly regional, trying to go solar in Finland just wouldn’t work either f’ex.

True! And then there are resources like offshore wind that aren’t near anyone.

Katz — in I’m an idealist land, I’d LOVE them to be little models of how easy it can be to incorporate eco friendly design into housing — radiant floor heating, solar powered if possible; barra wall (which can be done to look super sexy and used for passive heating AND cooling); green roofs, if not collecting rainwater; planted overhangs so sun stays out in the summer and gets in in the winter. None of those are that drastic a thing for people to get used to — radiant heating is already catching on, and the overhang thing is a bit like an awning, but natural and requiring little to no work (ditto a green roof), barra wall requires no more than flipping the in and out sides if you’re using it for both heating and cooling, and can look awesomely modern architecture like. The green roof? Not only does it help prevent runoff issues and flooding, but it helps with the heat island effect (when the sun hit concrete and black roofs, everything gets hotter than if it hits greenery, or even white roofing, and white metal roof instead of tarred down shingles? Not remotely a hard change when dealing with installing new roofs!)

And, in truly weird things, a dishwasher will save you money in the long run if it’s energy star and a water saver model — dishes by hand, even Japanese style (two bins, almost no running water). For extra awesome, that you could do anywhere, this Canadian company, Sun Mar, makes toilets for boats, this sort of thing, etc — they can be plumbed like regular toilets, or composting toilets, and they have a ONE PINT model. You know how much water you’d save with a one pint toilet?! And there’s no real difference between it and the toilet you’ve got, if you’ve got a seated toilet (could probably mod it for a squat toilet)

In “things that should’ve happened” — I REALLY wanted Obama to do another New Deal, but instead of railroads, green energy. Put people to work building and installing solar panels, building those offshore wind collectors, turn Death Valley into a giant solar array. I’d have gone giddy!

mildlymagnificent – that pretty much confirms what I thought. Given most people in Oz live in cities or suburbia, it’s not exactly an option even for those who do want to commit to backbreaking and possibly crippling (in every sense) agricultural labour.

Well, you do have to worry about the runoff still, because flash floods.

I’m cautious about green roofs, although I’m sure there are mad genius civil engineers working on them. It’s just that plants require maintenance and roofs are not very accessible. What a nightmare a roof infestation of Chinese sumac would be.

Bunker house! Ok, they’re called earth berms — — but it’s basically a hobbit hole. They’re a far cry from the houses we’re used to though, and idk how keen I am on the excavation requirements, but wet hot weather? Caves are the win.

Me personally? Cave, with an entryway big enough to collect required levels of water and hold up solar panels, composting toilet // septic drain field, probably leave the front of the cave relatively open to the elements so I’m not stealing critter homes, wire me for internet and I’m a happy camper. (I have low requirements, I’m perfectly happy in my 8’x10′ room, I’d be happier if I had a smaller bed and more shelf space, but 100 sq ft and 70 year round? Wire in the ‘net and toss me a mattress!)

Cave? For most of us a house on the side of a hill, or at least a rise, half excavated, half built above ground, would be a more roomy, more comfortable option. There are quite a few old houses in Adelaide built that way on level ground with the lower floor half in, half out of the ground. And my sister lived for a while in Coober Pedy in an entirely dugout home, that was complete bliss – temperature wise anyway.

Friends of ours lived in one of those houses with a not-quite-underground lower floor rather than a fully dug cellar. Didn’t need air conditioning because on a really hot day or during a heatwave week, they spent their time downstairs – and being an old house it had really high ceilings anyway so there was plenty of scope for air circulation.

If men are just layin’ about then women can choose not to cook for them or clean up any of their stuff. When they get hungry they’ll get off their asses and clean out a pot and cook something for themselves.

You’re a dude, right? This doesn’t always work, and suggesting it implies that you think that any woman whose husband is not currently pulling his weight around the house is either too stupid to try it or in some other way responsible for his lack of effort. That’s not cool.

I haven’t read the rest of the thread yet but please tell me I’m not the only one rapidly running out of patience with Mr Smug here.

Cassandra, you raise a good point. And it makes me think of another: if getting men to pull their domestic weight was as simple as simply refusing to do our share, Betty Friedan wouldn’t have had to write The Feminine Mystique, because we’d have fixed the domestic labor gap centuries ago, because I highly doubt CVC is the first person to think of it (and if CVC is a man, then he apparently thinks centuries of women just needed him to mansplain this simple solution to us).

Man or not, quite a few suspicions were raised yesterday about CVC. I raised the bit about how easy it is for women to get men to pull their weight, too. But CVC is one of the doesn’t-answer variety of commenter. I’m leaning toward calling zir a troll.

And yeah, patience all gone with this one.

Cassandra — that you are not. And fuck, I’d LOVE that sort of lifestyle if it wasn’t absolutely grueling work and very difficult to maintain purely in terms of food, nearly impossible in terms of everyone pulling their weight.

Me? Little things, like my usual bag having an ikea bag stuffed away in it — less plastic bags to add to my bag collection! Fish water gets used to water the plants. Stupidly simple things like that. Even in ideal land I don’t imagine I could be self sustaining — energy wise maybe, probably, if only because all the fish stuff is amazingly energy efficient and I only need a TV for Doctor Who.

But food and opting out completely? It’s grueling when everyone does all they can, you end up feeding slackers (and you will, and they’ll probably be the same men expecting the women to do their washing) and it’s a good way to destroy your body — both in terms of labor and nutrition.

PS Ikea’s environmental policies make me go gaga.

I’m an environmentalist so I’m all for people doing what they can on a personal level to reduce their impact, but on a macro level, individuals can’t solve the problems by ourselves. It’s going to take massive intergovernmental cooperation to get us out of the hole we’ve dug, and it needs to start soon, because we’re running out of time. If anyone actually believes that getting all their friends to adopt a subsistence lifestyle would fix the problem, well, I guess that’s a comforting fiction, but unfortunately it is a fiction.

(I’d still be calling this particular person out for the ongoing sexist cluelessness even if that wasn’t the case. The earlier stuff about birth control was an annoyance, and this latest pile of splainey bullshit is not encouraging me to be any more patient.)

“It’s going to take massive intergovernmental cooperation to get us out of the hole we’ve dug, and it needs to start soon, because we’re running out of time.”

That is, sadly, not a comment for the noptopus. And it’s part of my ikea love — yes, gov’ns HAVE TO step up, but companies can do so without having to be legally ordered to, so fucking do so! Ikea? Has, so much so.

Walmart? Well, punches for them! Well, fake punches. Legislation would be ideal, but I’d settle for landing in a bed of cactī.

Gah, I’m gonna get rants if I continue, so I’ll go for my favorite hyperbole — stop burning dinosaurs before Earth turns into Venus!

Sandman also warns Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers that if they get together in large groups, they will inevitably attract opportunistic sex-seekers eager to take advantage of the man surplus for their own perverse ends. Apparently, angry dudes who hate women are like catnip to gay men and straight ladies alike.

Obnoxious MGTOWer looking in the mirror:

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