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Woah, what’s this? Is A Voice for Men engaging in honest self-criticism?

This could come in handy.
This could come in handy.

I was skimming through the A Voice for Men forum the other day and was stunned to find, hidden away amongst the other posts in the “rants” section, an absolutely blistering critique of AVFM itself:

Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. … Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability … and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of [misandry], ad hominem attacks, constant contempt … public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets … going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.

Nailed it, huh?

Ok. SPOILER ALERT. I kind of lied. This comment wasn’t aimed at AVFM. It was aimed at “bitches.”

Here’s the opening wall-of-text paragraph that I left out:

I think manipulative, catty, conniving, calculating females are pure evil. Applying indirect, covert aggression as a power play, manipulating men to get in their good graces and climb up the pecking order, before aggressively attacking those who don’t “fit in” for their own sadistic pleasure, to aggrandise their own ego and to raise their own status. Playing the victim to stir white knights to go on the attack at their target, when they are the aggressor. Having utter contempt and disdain for anyone they sleep with. Expecting males to be Teflon and always shifting the blame when anyone else gets hurt – it’s always the other person’s fault for being hurtable, for not being Teflon – they always have zero accountability for any harm caused, deny any role in it, and tell themselves it’s not them to feel good and look good. Deluding people, by putting on a cute demeanour, that “she wouldn’t do that”. Using charm to beguile, while calculatingly lashing out at anyone who dares to reveal their true colours or who even sees through their mask at what they really are. Totally void of empathy or sympathy, while putting it on purely fakely to gain an advantage.

And here’s the bit I quoted at the start, though this time I’ve put all the bits I carefully reworded or ellipsed away the first time through back in again; they’re in bold.

Master bullshit artists, adept at stirring up drama and scapegoating, shifting all blame and accountability onto convenient disliked targets. Seeing their own cuntish wiles as meritous. Used to getting what they want, having little to no accountability, being placed on a pedestal and feeling they belong there, sneering down their noses in contempt at those who respect them (the latter being pawns in their power play), and covertly aggressively lashing out at those who dare not worship them, being the one to start it, and repeatedly. Using an arsenal of social weapons at their disposal at anyone who gets in their way: accusations of misogyny, ad hominem attacks, constant contempt and a complete disregard for other people’s boundaries, malicious back-talk, public humiliation, playing on prejudices and hatred to turn people against their targets, an opportunistic use of political correctness, going on the assault at others’ self-image, reputation and credibility over the pettiest of motives, the most outrageously falsely perceived slights, with calculated Machiavellian cunning towards their pettiest of aims.

Yeah, it sounds a lot more AVFMish that way.

Even after four years of reading this bullshit, I’m a bit amazed at just how much of MRA, er, philosophy seems to be little more than projection.

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Woody
Woody
8 years ago

Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.

katz
8 years ago

Hey Michelle, wasn’t I going to read your novel?

weirwoodtreehugger
8 years ago

How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.

And what they actually DO publish is equally just as shit. Do you ever read their articles?

Oh wait. Of course not.

Also, the fact that the comment was allowed to stay up and wasn’t taken down says a LOT about AVFM, doesn’t it? If a feminist posted on a feminist forum somewhere saying “I HATE ALL MEN AND THEY SHOULD ALL BE CASTRATED”, you’d be mad if the site left them up.

That’s why you’re all mad about radfemhub.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Idk WWTH, does he though? That reads like a standard disclaimer — any views expressed are those of the author, not the organization.

Yeah, great, but when you claim to be activists and let hatred go unchallenged, that certainly says something about you. “We don’t actually all thing that women, sorry, females, are evil, but it’s totally okay that you do”

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@dratman

what were you trying to see how many times you could use the word insane in a comment?

And kittehs and katz beat me to probably better responses, but sometimes all I can do is snark this stuff :/

@bittersweet

So here on We Hunted the Mammoth, we have some unwritten(?) rules about the language used here.

I think they actually got added to the welcome package? which would make them written 😛 but I could be wrong.

Michelle C Young
8 years ago

@katz – I haven’t been able to work on it, lately. It’s not ready for editing, yet. I finished the first draft, but have to do a major overhaul on it. For that, I really need to be off the pain meds, long enough to do a second draft.

Don’t worry. When it’s ready, I will let you know.

GrumpyOldMan
8 years ago

Woody whines, “Random comments on AVfM’s forums, from individuals unaffiliated with the site, do not represent the views of Paul or the rest of the staff at AVfM.”

Here are Paul’s own words, then: “You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

I rest my case.

pallygirl
pallygirl
8 years ago

As a statistician, I take issue with Woody’s assertion that the comments on AVfM forums are random.

No, their content is not random. Their content is influenced by what the site stands for, the content of blog posts, and the content of other comments – including up and down vote results.

FFS Woody, do you have any idea of what the word “random” means?

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Taino

Why is any attention given to this nonsense?

For mockery, Taino. For the great lulz. And because sunlight is the best disinfectant. Abusive assholes don’t just magically see the error of their ways. It’s societal disapproval and external circumstances that rein them in.

RE: contrapangloss

If they think pedestals are so awesome, why don’t they sit on them, instead of standing on their soapboxes?

Because it’ll never be high enough to satisfy them.

RE: Yuli

men and rapists are victims too in a way

HAHAHA NO. That’s what rapists TRY to claim, that it’s really everything victimizing THEM. It’s horseshit.

RE: Racnad

I’m getting the feeling that sites like AVFM and this one exist only to taunt each other.

Nah, this one also exists for cat photos, random trivia, and socializing. And AVFM doesn’t care THAT much about us.

RE: WWTH

How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?

Well, he obviously can’t smell the shit…

Anarchonist
8 years ago

@Racnad: So, let me get this straight: You think AVFM, a site with multiple writers which claims to be about “compassion for men and boys” is about taunting WHTM, which is a blog run by one person explicitly covering and mocking all misogynist activity, not just AVFM?

Basically, your argument is that not only does AVFM not do what it’s supposed to, but that what it does is done much better by this blog, which has only one writer. That sound about right?

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@LBT

RE: Yuli

men and rapists are victims too in a way

HAHAHA NO. That’s what rapists TRY to claim, that it’s really everything victimizing THEM. It’s horseshit.

oh,wow I somehow missed horribad troll trying to claim rapists are victims…

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
8 years ago

LBT

“If they think pedestals are so awesome, why don’t they sit on them, instead of standing on their soapboxes?”

“Because it’ll never be high enough to satisfy them.”

The pedestals can reach outer space and it may satisfy them… a little bit .

RE: WWTH

“How does Woody breathe with his nose so far up Paul Elam’s ass?”

“Well, he obviously can’t smell the shit…”

http://diylol.com/meme-generator/laughing-dog/memes/stop-stop-youre-gonna-make-me-pee

kittehserf
8 years ago

Yuli, hi! Have an Official Complimentary Welcome Package!

LBT and Marie: did you see Yuli was quoting the other guy about “men and rapists are victims too in a way” and disagreeing with it? I wasn’t sure from your comments. He’s not trolling – read his entire comments.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

GUYS GUYS EXCITING NEWS MY FOOD STAMPS CAME IN YAAAAAY! 😀

sparky
sparky
8 years ago

LBT: Yay for food!

I hope Woody’s on the AVFM payroll. He’s doing a better job at PR than JB is.

kittehserf
8 years ago

LBT, great news!

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

I’m so excited, looks like we’ll be celebrating anniversary with a scandalous treat or something! Things that people on food stamps are never supposed to buy because it proves they aren’t serious about self-sufficiency! Maybe… COOKIES!

Oh, I feel so DELICIOUSLY evil just thinking about it.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
8 years ago

I wish you were close enough to take out to celebrate, LBT. I guess we’ll just have to make a toast in your honor.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

I would have a toast, were I not medically forbidden from drinking! Skaal!

This news is way more awesome and better than Matheus over there.

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@kittehs

LBT and Marie: did you see Yuli was quoting the other guy about “men and rapists are victims too in a way” and disagreeing with it? I wasn’t sure from your comments. He’s not trolling – read his entire comments.

I only saw the quoted bits, I missed his comment :/ Sorry, Yuli

@LBT

Yay for food stamps 😀

pallygirl
pallygirl
8 years ago

Yay for food. 🙂

Tracy
Tracy
8 years ago

Another yay for food! Enjoy your cookies 🙂

pallygirl
pallygirl
8 years ago

This has been in my head for a while now, since these posts, I have to share!

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
8 years ago

LBT

I’m so HAPPY for you!!

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