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Men’s Rights Redditor explains the mate choice process of the human female, and also why she won’t pay for dinner

Stick-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.
Stuck-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.

So over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the fellas are doing their best to address the burning Men’s Right issue of “date inequality,” or, as one recent poster put the question,“Hey feminists. How come men are still expected to pay for dates?”

I’m pretty sure that feminists aren’t the ones expecting men to pay for dates, so I’m not sure why feminists should be held to account for something they’re not doing, but in any case, the Men’s Rightsers don’t seem much interested in hearing explanations from feminists. No, they’re rather offer their own theories.

Enter a new convert to Men’s Rightsism called MrKocha, who enlists the aid of SCIENCE to offer his own explanation of this terrible date injustice:

I see a lot of problems with every day inequality between the sexes in mate interaction in various areas.

Attention, human female. Initiating mate interaction protocol.

First being, the average female has vastly different motivations in her mate selection. How much is nature vs nurture is up for debate, but I tend towards believing millions of years of evolution probably have left a significant mark there.

Huh. What are the odds that these millions of years of evolution just happen to line up with whatever regressive assertions about women — sorry, females — this dude is about to make?

Anyway her mate choice process often involves looking for signs of genetic fitness in male (attractive appearance, displayed dominance socially or physically, risk taking, higher social status), and weighing this against his ability to invest in her long term future: such as pay her dinner/bills). Paying for dinner displays two things: one a willingness to self sacrifice for women, and two the financial resources to continue to do so.

Let’s see. Human beings for the majority of their existence on this planet were hunters and gatherers. Even if we assume that men mainly did the hunting and women mainly did the gathering, the gathered food made up the bulk of the diet. So really, men on dates should expect women to bring them large salads in return for the carcass of a small mammal.

The second part of the problem is women also have a significantly stronger in group bias, to the point where considering points of view don’t immediately benefit females is actively more difficult.

Uh, I think you accidentally the sentence there.

The process of asking women to merely consider in the name of equality, whether there are social solutions to reduce inequalities between the sexes in mate selection scenarios commonly triggers a strong negative emotional response, that her ‘turf’ is under attack and whoever presents such a question is a threat.

Really? Lots of women have no fucking problem whatsoever with paying for dinner.

How women deal with this varies tremendously. Some experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance, denial, and explain away inequalities with whatever rationalization provides the most reassuring emotional responses.

Wait, are we talking about women or about MRAs now?

Some project their outgroup hatred upon whoever voices the opinion by attacking the individual with petty, poorly thought out attacks on their character.

He must be talking about MRAs, right?

Others, immediately jump miles past the idea of social equality being a noble (if potentially impossible goal), to the issue of consent, making accusations that somehow even considering the idea of more equality in gender relations is an attempt to violate consent of female mate choice? (MY CHOICE! DISCUSSION IS RAPEFUL!)

Um, how did we get from talking about dinner to talking about rape? Is he really suggesting that women have literally accused him of rape because he suggested they pay for their own dinner?

And finally, there do seem to a minority of women who are able to consider the issue rationally, even if it admittedly, challenges her immediate self interests and might be harder than other subjects to think about?

Wow, some women — albeit a minority — somehow manage not to be spiteful, narcissistic children! What a generous assessment of half the human race.

How to tackle the issue, when women potentially have 4 times the amount of in group preference, reinforced by feminist doctrine and a potential biological preference towards the behavior?

How is “getting dudes to pay for dinner” part of feminist doctrine exactly? I’m pretty sure The Rules isn’t a feminist manifesto.

All I can say is to continue to challenge any social doctrine that reinforces in group bias of women and praise women when they display the ability to think outside the spectrum of their immediate self interest even if ultimately there isn’t much other benefit to you?

Who’s a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of her immediate self-interest? You’re a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of your immediate self-interest!

Always try to keep in mind, that the negative responses, are basically a reflection of why the question is a valid one in the first place.

Exactly. Whenever women recoil in horror at some astoundingly misogynistic thing you’ve said, that just means you’re totally right!

In a followup comment, MrKocha returns to the notion that women love throwing around rape accusations, not only at men who argue with them about paying for dinner but at “sexually inexperienced men” generally. It’s bad enough that women aren’t attracted to these men, he argues, but

the amount of shame, condescension and hostility thrown their way is quite impressive.

It can range anywhere from rape accusations to golden ones like “I hope you never find someone and stay alone forever!”

Fun fact: each and every man on the planet earth, no matter how sexually experienced, was once a virgin. Somehow most of them managed to garner themselves a certain amount of sexual experience without being accused of rape and/or having women express the opinion that they should remain alone forever.

Assuming that McKocha is speaking from experience here, and assuming also (because I’m already disturbed enough by his comments) that the bit about the rape accusations is internet hyperbole, what exactly is causing all these women to get so angry at him?

I don’t think it’s the sexual inexperience. I think that maybe, possibly, it might be the fact that he obviously hates women?

Just a wild guess.

MrKocha started up a whole thread of his own to further discuss his scientific hypotheses about the human female and her mate choices. It’s called Females Oppressing Female Mate Choice. Because these evil females who put down sexually inexperienced men are also oppressing females who might choose to mate with these men!

Thanks to AgainstMensRights for clueing me in to the wonderfulness of MrKocha — here and here.

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Ally S
8 years ago

Also, Alice, I have a bunch of PDFs for learning programming stuff. I have the following:

-A introductory text about Java
-A book about Scala
-Three full books all about Ruby
-A book about C++ (you can find it pretty easily in a Google search, though – it’s called “C++ tutorial” or something)

If you want any of those, feel free to send me an email! (My email is aaliyahsyed94[at]gmail[dot]com)

lana
lana
8 years ago

Oh ma God ya’ll are scaring me to death .What the hell is the “blockquote ” monster?

This is the blockquote monster. Ze eats and spits out comments mercilessly when you least expect it.

Oh …you mean an “evil gliche?”

kittehserf
8 years ago

No worries, lana!

Yup, the blockquote monster will turn your entire comment into blockquotes. Or refuse to blockquote what you want. Or do half of it. It turned one of my comments into a bizarre string recently, just a vertical line of letters.

You know you’re a really real manboobzer when the blockquote monster gets you! Bwahahahahaha!

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

And I succeed in invoking the monster, but grammar failed.

*ate

lana
lana
8 years ago

LOL!!! That long one …is it user error or a gliche in the system??(just so I know to be REALLY careful because I don’t like monsters…well I take that back I like cookie monster some other Seseme street boogimen )

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

Ally – Sure, let me email you.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

lana – User error. What happens is that you forget to close the tags, so WordPress has to close the tag for you. Except that WordPress doesn’t know WHERE you wanted to close the tag, so it puts it at the end, creating the blockquote monster.

kittehserf
8 years ago

::points upward:: What Alice did!

LBT – yeah, Louis and I didn’t do anything on this side about our sorta-wedding (more a marriage marker, ‘cos we’d been married a few months). Money’s not a thing over There, but it was “frock up however you like” for our celebration.

Speaking of clothes and SHOES, I’m going to be lucky to get to wear the Converse ones I bought last night. Louis was eyeballing ’em before I’d even got out of the shop, and between him and Maddie, I might just be allowed to borrow them sometime. 😛

thebewilderness
8 years ago

I suspect MrKocha acquired all his dating info from movies and teevee.
That is the only place I can think of where going out to dinner at a white tablecloth restaurant to impress the woman with your sperm value while creating a sense of indebtedness is common practice.

lana
lana
8 years ago

And I succeed in invoking the monster, but grammar failed.

Well if anyone is picky about grammar then don’t read my post! Seriously count on mocking me along with wominz haters .(and spelling …ya here me know! )

thebewilderness
8 years ago

They have a lot of trouble with the concept of fiction.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

lana: The “Blockquote Monster” is, basically, an onsite in-joke that refers to those times when you SWEAR you did the code right and it still comes out fudged up. I’ve mentally ID’ed at least three sub-breeds:

The Invisible Blockquote Monster: You typed the code, but nothing happened, and so the post looks like you typed everything. This can be bad when you’re trying to quote something particularly noxious (be it an MRA screed from David’s column, or something said by one of our trolls).

The Carnivorous Blockquote Monster: This one puts both the quoted text, AND your quote in the box, thereby making it look like you didn’t type anything new at all.

The Nesting Blockquote Monster: You wind up with multiple blockquote boxes, one inside another, and then they get borked in some fashion.

I’m sure there’s others, but those are the three I’ve run into the most.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

lana – I think I joked once that if my boobs had proofreading powers, they’d be A cups. So I feel ya. 😛

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

And… I got ninja’ed by half the regulars here. 😛

lana
lana
8 years ago

lana – User error. What happens is that you forget to close the tags, so WordPress has to close the tag for you. Except that WordPress doesn’t know WHERE you wanted to close the tag, so it puts it at the end, creating the blockquote monster.

Ahh ..I see .Thanks Alice. It will happen to me then because Im a spaz and I try and type as fast as I think (which is faster than I can type) so I’m sure I will forget to close the tab.Then we can a you blew it lana party and I can relax.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

freemage – So I already did the example of the last one, and the others did the second one. Here’s an example of the first one in action:

The Invisible Blockquote Monster: You typed the code, but nothing happened, and so the post looks like you typed everything. This can be bad when you’re trying to quote something particularly noxious (be it an MRA screed from David’s column, or something said by one of our trolls).

(In this case, I misspelled “blockquote” in one of the tags. Let’s see if that’s what happens.)

cloudiah
8 years ago

Mr. Kocha (the OP) is currently arguing that women calling guys who violate their boundaries and try to manipulate them creeps is JUST LIKE RACISM.

lana
lana
8 years ago

LOL!! Alice!

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

lana – No worries.

Basically, blockcode monster happens in a few ways:

1. You misspelled “blockquote” in a tag.
2. You forgot to add a closing tag.
3. You tried to add the closing tag but you forgot the “/”.

The latter leads to lovely things like this (invoking italics monster):

The quick brown fox jumped over the log.

lana
lana
8 years ago

Thanks Freemage .I look forward to using those excuses .(tee hee)

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

cloudiah – WOW. Privilege much?

I already lost my eyeballs, so I didn’t have another set to lose. DAMN IT.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Ah, ‘creep-shaming’, the last defense (I wish) of the creeper.

lana
lana
8 years ago

Thanks Alice ,Freemage ,and Kittehserf for taking me
under your wing. I feel educated and prepared to avoid getting attacked my a ninja or a t-rex or some sort of large predatory bird!

Ally S
8 years ago

You should have the PDFs now, Alice! ^_^

If anyone else (no trolls) wants them, I’ll be happy to share them.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

Ally – Yay! Now to open them on my laptop over the break! 😀

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