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Men’s Rights Redditor explains the mate choice process of the human female, and also why she won’t pay for dinner

Stick-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.
Stuck-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.

So over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the fellas are doing their best to address the burning Men’s Right issue of “date inequality,” or, as one recent poster put the question,“Hey feminists. How come men are still expected to pay for dates?”

I’m pretty sure that feminists aren’t the ones expecting men to pay for dates, so I’m not sure why feminists should be held to account for something they’re not doing, but in any case, the Men’s Rightsers don’t seem much interested in hearing explanations from feminists. No, they’re rather offer their own theories.

Enter a new convert to Men’s Rightsism called MrKocha, who enlists the aid of SCIENCE to offer his own explanation of this terrible date injustice:

I see a lot of problems with every day inequality between the sexes in mate interaction in various areas.

Attention, human female. Initiating mate interaction protocol.

First being, the average female has vastly different motivations in her mate selection. How much is nature vs nurture is up for debate, but I tend towards believing millions of years of evolution probably have left a significant mark there.

Huh. What are the odds that these millions of years of evolution just happen to line up with whatever regressive assertions about women — sorry, females — this dude is about to make?

Anyway her mate choice process often involves looking for signs of genetic fitness in male (attractive appearance, displayed dominance socially or physically, risk taking, higher social status), and weighing this against his ability to invest in her long term future: such as pay her dinner/bills). Paying for dinner displays two things: one a willingness to self sacrifice for women, and two the financial resources to continue to do so.

Let’s see. Human beings for the majority of their existence on this planet were hunters and gatherers. Even if we assume that men mainly did the hunting and women mainly did the gathering, the gathered food made up the bulk of the diet. So really, men on dates should expect women to bring them large salads in return for the carcass of a small mammal.

The second part of the problem is women also have a significantly stronger in group bias, to the point where considering points of view don’t immediately benefit females is actively more difficult.

Uh, I think you accidentally the sentence there.

The process of asking women to merely consider in the name of equality, whether there are social solutions to reduce inequalities between the sexes in mate selection scenarios commonly triggers a strong negative emotional response, that her ‘turf’ is under attack and whoever presents such a question is a threat.

Really? Lots of women have no fucking problem whatsoever with paying for dinner.

How women deal with this varies tremendously. Some experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance, denial, and explain away inequalities with whatever rationalization provides the most reassuring emotional responses.

Wait, are we talking about women or about MRAs now?

Some project their outgroup hatred upon whoever voices the opinion by attacking the individual with petty, poorly thought out attacks on their character.

He must be talking about MRAs, right?

Others, immediately jump miles past the idea of social equality being a noble (if potentially impossible goal), to the issue of consent, making accusations that somehow even considering the idea of more equality in gender relations is an attempt to violate consent of female mate choice? (MY CHOICE! DISCUSSION IS RAPEFUL!)

Um, how did we get from talking about dinner to talking about rape? Is he really suggesting that women have literally accused him of rape because he suggested they pay for their own dinner?

And finally, there do seem to a minority of women who are able to consider the issue rationally, even if it admittedly, challenges her immediate self interests and might be harder than other subjects to think about?

Wow, some women — albeit a minority — somehow manage not to be spiteful, narcissistic children! What a generous assessment of half the human race.

How to tackle the issue, when women potentially have 4 times the amount of in group preference, reinforced by feminist doctrine and a potential biological preference towards the behavior?

How is “getting dudes to pay for dinner” part of feminist doctrine exactly? I’m pretty sure The Rules isn’t a feminist manifesto.

All I can say is to continue to challenge any social doctrine that reinforces in group bias of women and praise women when they display the ability to think outside the spectrum of their immediate self interest even if ultimately there isn’t much other benefit to you?

Who’s a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of her immediate self-interest? You’re a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of your immediate self-interest!

Always try to keep in mind, that the negative responses, are basically a reflection of why the question is a valid one in the first place.

Exactly. Whenever women recoil in horror at some astoundingly misogynistic thing you’ve said, that just means you’re totally right!

In a followup comment, MrKocha returns to the notion that women love throwing around rape accusations, not only at men who argue with them about paying for dinner but at “sexually inexperienced men” generally. It’s bad enough that women aren’t attracted to these men, he argues, but

the amount of shame, condescension and hostility thrown their way is quite impressive.

It can range anywhere from rape accusations to golden ones like “I hope you never find someone and stay alone forever!”

Fun fact: each and every man on the planet earth, no matter how sexually experienced, was once a virgin. Somehow most of them managed to garner themselves a certain amount of sexual experience without being accused of rape and/or having women express the opinion that they should remain alone forever.

Assuming that McKocha is speaking from experience here, and assuming also (because I’m already disturbed enough by his comments) that the bit about the rape accusations is internet hyperbole, what exactly is causing all these women to get so angry at him?

I don’t think it’s the sexual inexperience. I think that maybe, possibly, it might be the fact that he obviously hates women?

Just a wild guess.

MrKocha started up a whole thread of his own to further discuss his scientific hypotheses about the human female and her mate choices. It’s called Females Oppressing Female Mate Choice. Because these evil females who put down sexually inexperienced men are also oppressing females who might choose to mate with these men!

Thanks to AgainstMensRights for clueing me in to the wonderfulness of MrKocha — here and here.

447 replies on “Men’s Rights Redditor explains the mate choice process of the human female, and also why she won’t pay for dinner”

I was merely highlighting the fact that your standards for compassion are nonsense because of your victim-blaming and hostility to survivors of sexual assault, not suggesting that you want to teach us something. And based on that I’m saying that we don’t have any reason to care about whether you think your “compassion” is wasted on us.

Terrible people because we don’t have time for rape apologists, misogynists, racists, trans*phobes or homophobes, eh? Interesting twisting of ideas you have there, little wanker.

“”I’m just hoping to watch Moobz have a Hugo Schwyzer meltdown.””

Any day now………………………………………………………………

Someone who stepped in brandishing rape victims and disabled people as cudgels to hit feminists, then gloated openly about doing it just to provoke, is calling other people assholes. That’s rich.

Hey, if making people upset is winning, you could try going the whole hog instead of just being cryptic. Throw in some racism, child abuse apologia, maybe some fantasy about torturing kittens! Be creative! The sky is the limit when it comes to acting like an asshole!

No, I don’t expect it to be soon, but after monitoring his behaviour on twitter for awhile I’ve come to understand his methods and mind a bit more. I can always spot the ones that crack, and cowardice is always the most obvious sign. It might not be soon, but as he loses more and more of his support system, I’ve watched him inch closer and closer to snapping. Who knows? With a bit of goading, he might be able to be pushed to do something even more extreme than Schwyzer did. I just hope he doesn’t exile himself from twitter when it happens.

Hey, did all the US-based people have a good Thanksgiving dinner? Everyone all warm and happily fed?

I can’t believe that I ate dinner, made dessert, ate that, and watched two movies, and then came back to grudgewanker still wanking. Sad bastard.

I don’t really care if being called an asshole hurts your feelings or not. I’m just highlighting how awful you are for the sake of anyone reading along who might have actually believed you were defending rape victims and autistic people/disabled people in general when you first showed up in this thread. You know, back when you pretended you weren’t trying to hurt vulnerable people for your own amusement?

There was a time when I would have shown more compassion here and not said such things for my own amusement, but I quickly learned that compassion is wasted here, and that most of you are the types who deserve all the bad things that happen to them in life.

Did you happen to mention which ‘nym you were using to engage with us previously? I’ve been around a longish time and I don’t remember “diz.”

Oh, my compassion for victims hasn’t changed. It just so happens that my compassion doesn’t extend to anyone here. I’m completely against abuse of any demographic, this one aside. I’m totally cool with you guys being abused/harmed/raped. I wouldn’t wish it on you, but I’m not about to lose sleep over it either. Besides, watching bigoted, hateful people suffer in anguish makes me think that karma really does exist.

Anyway, its 6am here and I’m fuckin tired. I’ve had a lot of fun with y’all tonight, it was a good way to cap off a rather tiring (and frankly overcrowded and annoying) thanksgiving. Later taters :3

” I’m totally cool with you guys being abused/harmed/raped.”

Ummm… can we ban, please?

…. Are you for real, diz? At least sometimes when people are trying to be amusing to themselves or others, they’re actually funny, but this is just absurd. Come on, chap. Step up the game! Get offensive here, swing for the cheap seats! Do something amusing and interesting and cool!

Anyway. Yeah, I’m aware that some of you might be offended by rape jokes. That was the point. Cripes, whats not to get about that?

For instance, being offensive to offend someone, and then asking what it is they don’t get about you being offensive… Isn’t clever or interesting or amusing. Are you stupid, or something? I mean, if you are, okay, we can work with that, I can work with that, but I just need to know because it drastically alters the parameters of the discussion.

Gotta tell me what level of trolling you’re aiming for or else I can’t find it amusing, y’know?

Your blasé, small minded idiocy is actually kind of funny, though. “Oh! I’m against rape! I wouldn’t mind if you fucking assholes got raped, and in fact I’m totally cool with it happening and won’t lose sleep over it, but I’m against rape, you guys!”.

Do you lose a lot of sleep over your feverish stalking of the owner of this blog? Seems like a lot of effort put into just… learning his mind, analysing his Twitter posts, expecting him to do something extreme like possibly murder someone.

To close out: You are a terrible, terrible human being with no capacity for empathy and not a lick of sense in your life. I hope you have a good life, and I wish you the best, but, in the effort of fairness… you might want to leave, and just never come back, because you’re embarassing yourself here q:

Also, you wishing for someone to die sucks, and hoping someone gets raped sucks, and you suck for doing both of those things, no matter how much random wordgarble you want to use to hide the fact that you apparently have so little ability to feel happiness that you must literally suck up the joy of other people.

Hmmm…I could be wrong but this troll seems familiar and I don’t just mean here. He sounds rather like one of the ones who came after me when I was ill. You know, I mentioned it not long ago when I was going through chemotherapy. Obviously I could be wrong but this one has the same stench if rank sociopathy, bullying, malice and cowardice.


“Do you lose a lot of sleep over your feverish stalking of the owner of this blog? Seems like a lot of effort put into just… learning his mind, analysing his Twitter posts, expecting him to do something extreme like possibly murder someone.”

Clearly he does since he spent all night up trolling David’s blog and probably his twitter feed as well. And on Thanksgiving, too, what a lonely, empty life he must lead if he has nothing better to do.

Please ban the hell out of this guy who has no problems with rapists and abusers, so long as they only target people he doesn’t like. This guy who is deliberately trying to hurt victims that he doesn’t like by reminding them of their experiences. This guy who cares more about hurting the people he disagrees with than showing consideration to any victims sympathetic to his cause who may be reading along. Diz, I think you are pondscum.

diz: So, if I am triggering anyone, I would be happy to hear of it

Yep, an asshole. Not even a very effective one. The way to make that trick work is to be subtle, to pretend to a level of confusion. You blew your wad too soon, like an overstimulated teenager wanking to a creepshot.

Oh, no no. I’m not trying to be funny for you. I am saying things that are funny to me

As I said, your, “it’s a joke, you should lighten up” routine is a lie. You aren’t joking at all, you are engaging in spiteful attempts to hurt others, and then trying to compound it by claiming to be joking.

It’s a common technique among bullies and assholes.

diz: Oh, my compassion for victims hasn’t changed.

I believe that.

I’m completely against abuse of any demographic, this one aside.

And for that there must be a reason.

So, who were you before? What did you do here that caused people to scorn you?

No, you don’t really need to answer. We’ve seen it all. You came in, high and mighty, telling the people here, “how it is”,and we gave you the attention you deserved. Now you are back for a little revenge. Like a PUA trying to “revenge fuck” the young women who scorned him in his callow youth you are here, hoping to recover some sense of pride by “riling” people up.

The sad thing is, to the point the pitiably pathetic, you have no talent for that either. No buildup, no foreplay. No pride in yourself, nor craft in the attack. You made a comment, got the expected pushback, plopped your mal mots on the table and immediately counted coup.

You’re probably going to be banned (perhaps not for the first time). I am sure you will console yourself that it was because, “feminists” are thin-skinned, can’t take a joke, etc. (but we know, don’t we, there was never any “joking” in it. You were trying to hurt, and pretty much failed). Then you will go someplace else, and lick your new wounds, and crow about how horribly you were treated, and that manboobz can’t take any criticism, and you will wank to the idea that Dave will be turned on the way the MRM turns on the women who work with/for them.

I don’t knw what to tell you, because I don’t see it happening. Why? Because, contra the assholes you are emulating; and unlike Schwyzer, there isn’t a core dissonance in what Dave is doing.

You are projecting reasons for his actions (what with your prattle about him, “losing his support system”), which are more revealing than probative.

All in all, all I can say is, from the available evidence, it sucks to be you, and I won’t miss you when you’re gone.

I’m pretty sure diz has come back about 80 billion times, all told. Diz, banned does not mean go away until you feel like sneaking back in. Banned means go away forever. Your feelings are irrelevant.

I guess even if diz could understand that, he wouldn’t care, since in his mind abusing this specific group of people is completely acceptable.

Diz iz banned and will have to live out his fantasies of being a cartoon villain elsewhere.

I do sort of like the idea that he’s “monitoring” my twitter account for signs that I’m “about to crack.” My twitter account is literally 1/3 announcements of Man Boobz posts, 1/3 arguing with MRAs and 1/3 dumb jokes and retweeted pics, many of them cat related.

Thanks, David. That person was really starting to creep me out. His posts disturbed me because they reminded me of certain bullies I’ve encountered. I’m only speaking for myself here, but I was honestly hurt by his words, especially when he saying shit about karmic retribution.

And of course everyone knows that once a person starts posting cat-related jokes, pictures, and videos on Twitter, that’s the first sign that you’re about to be attacked by a horde of feminists who will tear you limb from limb (with boxcutters, natch).

Ally said:

“Thanks, David. That person was really starting to creep me out. His posts disturbed me because they reminded me of certain bullies I’ve encountered. I’m only speaking for myself here, but I was honestly hurt by his words, especially when he saying shit about karmic retribution.”

Yes, he was giving me those vibes too. I’m about 90% sure he was one of the the trolls who gave me hell when I was sick. There are very, very few people towards whom I feel actively vindictive but they’re right at the top of my list!

diz was one of the few trolls here who actually hurt my feelings. I’m going through a lot of shit these days – the last thing I need to be told is that I deserve all of it for being a terrible person. He was a shit troll in many ways, but his words managed to dig deep.


I’m sorry he managed to hurt you. He really was a nasty piece of work.

I have lots of hugs over here with your name on them if you’d like them.

Thanks, Seranvali. I’m trying to get over it, but it’s hard because I feel very soft and weak these days. And I bet that asshole is reading these comments to his “amusement.” What the hell is wrong with these people?

Don’t forget that while most of us were off doing stuff with our friends and families if we’re US based (or just doing whatever we normally do mid-week if not), this guy was spending his holiday obsessing over the fact that he was apparently rejected by the community here at some point, and trying to hurt people as payback. That’s pretty pathetic.

TL;dr – however shitty things may be right now, don’t forget that you’re all infinitely more awesome people than he is.

Go easy on yourself, Ally. You aren’t ‘weak’ though you are in a vulnerable place at the moment. I personally find it much easier to dismiss jerkwads like there because they are at least upfront about the fact that they aren’t ideologically committed to their positions, they are just in it for the ‘lulz’, taking out some lack in their own lives (empathy? basic humanity?) or flaw in their personality on others. They are pathetic, barely worth contempt.

Fundamentally, people like diz are predators of a type, but they are also basically cowards. They target people who are vulnerable in fairly well understood ways and go after them in a manner that ensures the most possibility to inflict psychological harm with the least potential risk to themselves.

All the hugs you want are yours for the taking.

Thanks, gillyrosebee. The last time I was was bullied online was when I was 16, and it was just as awful. There was this one user on this message board who was lamenting his recent rejection by a crush he had online, and I felt bad for him, so we exchanged IM info and started chatting with each other. I tried my best to console him about that rejection, and it seemed that he genuinely enjoyed talking to me. And then one day he told me that he was lying about that rejection all along “for the lulz” and started calling me gullible, an idiot, a “f*ggot”, etc. because I believed him (even though I had no way of telling that he was lying). That alone was enough to punch a hole in my self-esteem, which was already pretty low at the time.

I’m sorry someone did that to you, Ally. Sadly, for every person who uses the internet to connect with people and build friendships, there seems to be at least one chucklehead who just wants to be vile to others.


Caring about people is not a weakness its strength. It takes guts .Especially if you have been burned.

There is a scripture I like to try and remember and practice .

Matt 10:16

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Its something to at least aim for . ((((HUGS)))))

Well, that was creepy. I mean, diz was obviously a pathetic little booger, but that level of open and casual malice is unsettling. Shorter diz: “I’d be happy if bad things happen to you! Am I triggering you? Yay!”

I don’t understand how some people can think this way.

For anyone hurt by the booger’s word vomit:

Ally, after all you’ve been through and survived with your compassion and ability to love not only intact but growing you must be a very strong person indeed. Those qualities are incredibly important and admirable. They’re the hallmark of strength, not being weak or soft.

Dedicating a holiday to trying to make people upset because they previously rejected your nuggets of wannabe wisdom, otoh? That’s a sign of weakness. And if you sockpuppet to do it, like this guy did, it’s a sign of cowardice too.

For everyone who needs it, a strong dose of anti-troll serum:


What is such a noted anthropologist doing wasting his time on a link sharing website? He should be sharing his vast knowledge with a wider audience!

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