You might not think that student orientation events would be an appropriate venue for chants celebrating the rape of underage girls. But such chants have apparently been something of a tradition at not one but two Canadian schools — and possibly more? Last week, a scandal erupted at the University of British Columbia after word got out that an orientation event at its Saunder School of Business had included a chant on this particular theme, led by orientation leaders from the Commerce Undergraduate Society.
According to one woman who disgustedly live-tweeted the event, it went something like this:
Y-O-U-N-G at UBC, we like ’em young, Y is for your sister, O is for oh so tight, U is for underage, N is for no consent, G is for go to jail.
Meanwhile, in Halifax, someone made a video — and posted it to YouTube — of student orientation leaders at Saint Mary’s University chanting a nearly identical chant.
Naturally, noted, er, human rights activist Paul Elam of A Voice for Men felt compelled to weigh in on the issue. He started off by expressing his deep disgust … with having to hear anything about the issue at all:
I swear if I read one more outraged “report” — aka feverish, paranoid rant — that twists something stupid into “evidence” of a “rape culture,” I am going to just lose it.
Yes, how outrageous that a chant joking about raping underage girls at an official school orientation event could possibly be construed as contributing in any way to rape culture! So sorry that your delicate sensitivities were offended, Paul.
After some more predictable histrionics on this “hyper-hipster-hysteria” from Mr. Elam, he got to his main point: blaming feminists for the rape chants.
No, really.
I am an older guy. I find it interesting, given that I came from a more “patriarchal” generation, that something like this when I was 18 would have been unthinkable. Why? Because other men, especially older ones, would have pulled those young people aside and said, “Hey, we don’t do that around here.” That would have been that, as they say, if it had even happened in the first place.
We can thank feminists for this. Through policy and governance they have eroded positive male role models, and male authority, right out of the culture. After feminist undermining of the family, removing fathers from the lives of children and demonizing male heroes, we have a population of young people, especially young men, growing more socially feral with each new generation.
And now what do we see? Feminists running around everywhere telling men they need to tell each other, “Don’t rape. Don’t abuse women. Don’t this. Don’t that.” …
You can’t assault the identity of half the human race, marginalize and disempower them, which is exactly what feminism has done, and expect anything in return but what you are getting.
In other words: You gals asked for it.
Paul Elam, you are rape culture.
kittehs, I just finished Small Gods. Much chortling was involved.
And–“assault the identity of”? That’s interesting. He sounds like he’s regretting conventional masculine roles–but don’t they spend half their time whining about how hard and oppressive those roles are? How men suffer and nobody cares because men are supposed to be “tough,” etc.?
Look at me, analyzing Paul Elam’s words as if I expected coherence and thoughtful social criticism. /never mind
lowquacks — yeah “not illegal yet” may be more correct, but the point was more “totally safe to download from” — user legality that is.
As for religious images and Catholics…then you have the Christians who consider the Virgin Mary to be an idol.
lowquacks – yes, I was being facetious, because “scare away angels” is a particularly silly thing to fix onto the idea of spirits who are warriors AND the no graven images – which, btw, you might have figured I already knew about. History and all that, hmm?
cloudiah – Small Gods is wonderful!
Kittehs, I was possibly a bit harsh there, or condescending or something. Sorry about that – the comment was more for the benefit of those reading than there to imply that you wouldn’t have known all that.
Argenti, those folks might be on to something – if Catholics didn’t insist that the Virgin Mary was *not* a deity, you might well think she was one, or that she took the third part of the Trinity, because, to be fair, the Holy Spirit doesn’t come along and nobody can seem to agree on what the hell a Holy Spirit might be.
And also pointing out that the idea of weird-looking mythical creatures outside of the laws of nature “making sense” in any meaningful way is a pretty weird one even if you do think they exist. Angels aren’t a product of logical deduction – you could personify forces or whatever, and still have various sects coming up with the same set of behaviours for them – so they’re whatever you want them to be. Chubby baby cherubim, terrifying multi-headed cherubim, all angels look like androgynous Norwegians and stay in heaven all the time, all angels are Lovecraftian and only exist when communicating messages to people or fighting holy wars, take your pick.
By assault, marginalize and disempower, we all know he really means “not submissively let us assault, marginalize and disempower you/feeeeemales.”
On a side note, the creative team behind Miss Representation is working on a documentary film that delves into how our society stifles and harms boys and men. The funding period is over, but they exceeded their goal for it. Yes!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jensiebelnewsom/the-mask-you-live-in
Hi. getting back to the post for a minute: Elam is an old perv with a blog, nothing more. A great deal of his interest for others depends on people thinking he’s doing something, or has a life, or is somebody. He’s nobody. Without him, his site is nothing. He’s a whore for attention and tries to calculate how to get it, and this includes destroying the reputations of other people who have done better in life than he has.. He has no assets and isn’t worth suing. He isn’t worth anything, but he has this wizard of oz fraudulence that does continue to hurt his his victims. The sooner he is thoroughly debunked the better, and thanks David, for bringing out this sick crap.
lowquacks, it came across as mansplaining, yeah. It was addressed to me and given how often I’ve talked about history here – and that a certain king is the one who ended the French Wars of Religion (hello, Calvinist iconoclasts) – it was pretty damn annoying. I know you didn’t mean to be, but that’s what it was.
I don’t think it’s hard to get the idea of angels who’re known as warriors (Michael being the obvious example) being a bit tougher than creatures who’d faint away at the sight of a picture. It’s not a case of “oh but there’s the whole ‘no graven images'” thing, it’s that creatures like these would be afraid. Having a directive for humans not to worship idols, and taking that to the nth degree with “no artwork”, is not the same thing as angels being afraid to enter a house with pictures. It’s screwing the internal consistency of the story.
I don’t believe in angels of that sort, nor care about whether such spirits exist. But it’s doesn’t make sense to say “they don’t exist ergo it can’t make sense anyway” because, well, where does that leave endless discussions of whether such-and-such a thing is canon in innumerable fiction genres?
I always found the preference for adorable cherubs rather than warrior angels kind of odd. Granted that I’m an atheist so maybe there’s something I’m not getting here, but the idea of kickass avenging angels is so much more viscerally appealing than a gurgling baby as a spiritual symbol. My mother in law has tons of angel stuff all over her bedroom and it’s all of the adorable chubby baby variety.
@kittehs
I’m sorry about that.
Elam’s mental gymnastics never cease to amaze me. A man or men behave badly and he will go to any lengths and use any spurious argument to try and prove that some way, somehow, we’re to blame.
“Socially feral” is an uncannily accurate description of his followers. They don’t see anything wrong with engaging in, or justifying, shitty behavior, and then completely disowning it so they can still feel like winners.
For my first album, my mom and I went in on one of those Columbia House “12 Albums For 1 Cent” deals. I chose “Even Now” by Barry Manilow. His voice was like buttah.
lowquacks – accepted, of course. 🙂
If Elam stubbed his toe, he’d find a way to blame it on feminists. Probably with lots of ranting about how paranoid and over-emotional women are. And, of course, telling us how incredible painful his stubbed toe is whilst mocking and downplaying the injuries suffered by victims of domestic violence.
Oh, WHAT THE FUCK. This is just blaming the victim… doubled.
The first album I ever bought was the Grease soundtrack. I’m not ashamed.
Hellkell, you shouldn’t be. It’s fun.
Oh, you were’nt.. and I need better glasses.
“Seeing as they specifically talk about ‘underage,’ and ‘go to jail,’ I don’t think that really helps much.”
I didn’t hear “go to jail” in the video. The “G” was for “grabbing ass” or something close to that. Also, after listening again, it seems clear that they say either “no regrets” or “no respect”. I hear nothing that sounds like “consent”.
Regarding underage, that is kind of a head scratcher. The age of consent in Canada is 16, and I doubt that their are many 15 year olds attending that school. One commenter stated that they were referring to underage drinking.
I hear a crude, stupid chant celebrating debauchery, but you’re not giving me much to conclude it to be a “rape chant” and I am questioning why people are quoting the lyrics wrong.
What’s this nonsense trollyboy was spewing about feminism wanting to prevent men from providing guidance for children? Feminism seeks to tear down gender roles and make it more acceptable for men to take a more active role in raising their children, as well as be kindergarten/elementary school teachers.
FWIW I didn’t have a whole lot of fatherly guidance, not because of feminism but because my dad worked long hours when I was young and thus didn’t have much time to spend with me. Oddly enough, I didn’t grow up to be a rapist.
Good, you didn’t hear them say “O for “oh so tight.”? If that’s not an explicit reference to sex — and specifically with someone sexually inexperienced and probably young — I don’t know what is.
Also, we’re talking about two schools. The chant at the other school is the one that reportedly used the words “go to jail.”
I agree that the chant in the video sounds more like “no regret” or “no respect” but it’s clearly about statutory rape.
The underage girl referred to may not refer to a student. The “y is for your sister” part of the chant suggests that the idea is that they’re inviting someone’s underage sister to a party, getting her drunk and raping her. Which is something that does actually happen on campuses. I lived in a college town. Lots of underage kids who aren’t students go to parties on campus.
I think it’s important to note that Elam/AVfM doesn’t claim that the listeners got the words of the chant wrong. So his stirring defense should be read to encompass a chant that does include “no consent” and all the rest.
Of course Good, being the skidmark that he is, is going to pick this nit. What a waste of energy.