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Men’s Rights Redditors wonder why nobody else realizes that the ladies aren’t oppressed any more

For example, women never have to fight off flying squirrels, which are very bitey, mind you.
For example, women never have to fight off flying squirrels.

So the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit are currently discussing one of the most important — if often overlooked — issues of our time, which is: How come nobody but us sees that the ladies aren’t oppressed any more? Or, as  paranoiarodeo497, looking hopefully towards the future, has chosen to put the question: “What future event/tragedy do you think will happen that will make people realize not only are women no longer deprived but in fact equal to men?”

Alas, the Men’s Rightsers aren’t hopeful that anything will wake up the snoozing sheeple. BrambleEdge, for his part, worries that men will remain oppressed forever.

BrambleEdge 17 points 15 hours ago (18|1)  Seeing as men are deprived and far from equal to women, and people don't see it now, I doubt they ever will. I sometimes fear that gynocentrism is biological and not cultural.        [–]Demonspawn [-1] 1 point 52 minutes ago (1|0)      gynocentrism is biological  Treating women as human beings and men as human doings? Yes, it is biological. It's also why "equality" isn't, and seeking it creates a system of female supremacy.

Shrekem, meanwhile, turns to the work of eminent historian GirlWritesWhat for evidence that women were never oppressed in the first place:

Shrekem 9 points 13 hours ago (12|3)  The problem is that women were never oppressed or deprived, they just had different roles. Women are certainly not "equal" to men today, they receive special treatment and are immune to many laws that would get a man locked up for life. I recommend you watch Karen Straughan's video on "When female privilege backfires".      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]villevillakulla -4 points 11 hours ago (4|8)  I guess it depends on how you define oppressed or deprived, but it kind of sounds like you're full of shit, and "different roles" can be a blanket statement to mean anything you want it to mean.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]Shrekem 5 points 8 hours ago (6|1)  I would define oppression as "the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner" just like everybody else. I challenge you to come up with one example of women being oppressed in western society in the past few centuries. The treatment of women is nothing compared to real oppression like that of blacks during slavery.

IHaveALargePenis, in addition to being highly confident about his relative penis size, is also a bit more optimistic than his peers, suggesting that the irresponsibility of evil slutty single moms will eventually end up annoying not only single men but other women as well and thus, I guess, help to spark a new wave of antifeminism:

IHaveALargePenis [+3] 5 points 12 hours ago (6|1)  Government taxing bachelors to sponsor single moms/women in general. If shit keeps going the way it's going, everything women need will be provided by a government, while working less and claiming there's still a pay gap. It won't take a genius to put two and two together and realize that the benefits women get from the government, plus the benefits they get from working are huge compared to what men pay/get out of it.  But that's not when things will change, not yet. What we're going to see is a rise of single, irresponsible moms who breed and have their lives paid for by taxpayers. And part of those taxpayers will be other women, who can't find men willing to "breed with them" or marry them, etc. These women will be working 40+ hours a week easy, will sacrifice greatly, miss their chance to have kids, and realize they're paying for all these irresponsible women to have their cake and eat it to (our society is pretty good at rewarding the irresponsible). That's when things will change.
But Scoundrel, a more pessimistic sort, can’t imagine any scenario that would get the evil femmies to admit that men are oppressed:

scoundrelTW 6 points 13 hours ago (8|2)  It will never happen. If the government should start killing random men, the feminists would claim that men are being targeted because they are more valuable, so therefore, it is still patriarchy. Feminists will NEVER let go of their assertion that men are privileged relative to women. It would break up their club and their life's purpose.
Sorry, IHaveALargePenis, but you’ve been outvoted.

Meanwhile, loose-dendrite, off on a bit of a tangent, warns those who might otherwise be susceptible to feminist-think that seeing similar numbers of men and women in positions of power would not be a sign of gender equality — but rather a symptom of FEMALE TYRANNY!

loose-dendrite 7 points 16 hours ago (12|5)  Most feminists seem to think that equal representation in all positions of power is sufficient. Seeing as feminists have moved to goal posts in the past, I find this unconvincing.  It would also almost certainly indicate a massive imbalance against men due to a few factors:      Female IQ is less extreme than male IQ. There are more male geniuses and idiots. Our leaders should be smarter than average so they can handle the mentally difficult job of managing our society. Therefore one expects more men than women in power going simply by intellectual merit. If representation is equal then some imbalance against men must exist (even if there is also an imbalance somewhere against women).     Men have higher testosterone and therefore are more likely to participate in status seeking behavior. In other words, there's more male than female interest in power because power is high-status. If there is equal representation then an imbalance against men must exist. I consider this an inferior argument to point #1 because I don't remember the associated research very well.

Huh. I was unaware that high IQ was a prerequisite to power in our society. Did anyone tell George W. Bush?

In conclusion, MRAs have once against shown that they can use any and all evidence to “prove” what they already believe. Another flawless victory over the forces of reality.

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kittehserf
8 years ago

Thank you, and meat pie breath kisses back to Beagle!

We think Sal’s a corgi-terrier cross. Her build and colour are very corg, but she’s got a really cute little upturned terrier nose.

Her sister Lucy is going to be pissed if Sal starts chasing rubbers (not condoms! It’s what my sister calls little tennis balls) again. Her favourite sport, she couldn’t get enough of playing fetch in the corridoor, and it drove Lucy to distraction. “GET OUT OF MY FACE!” ::snap:: ::snarl::

When we visited the other week, Louis said Lucy was there too, though my sister and BiL hadn’t been aware of her much. We all guessed she might be waiting for Sal, but didn’t think it’d be this soon.

neuroticbeagle
8 years ago

“Her sister Lucy is going to be pissed if Sal starts chasing rubbers”

Spermjacking: bitches really do it.

(oh come on. you knew somebody was going to have to say something on this site)

kittehserf
8 years ago

Thanks, everyone!

“Her sister Lucy is going to be pissed if Sal starts chasing rubbers”

Spermjacking: bitches really do it.

(oh come on. you knew somebody was going to have to say something on this site)

You’re just lucky I wasn’t drinking when I read that!

kittehserf
8 years ago

David, that’s a totes true story bro, that’ll teach those wimminz! ::is shocked and awed::

Fade
8 years ago

OKay, I feel like I skimmed something because I missed how atheism got in the conversation? Was it the unicorn in the bathtub comment or something?

Fade
8 years ago

@auggzilliary

thanks for the context. I am still utterly confused even with it. XD

Karalora
Karalora
8 years ago

@kittehserf, the word you were looking for on the last page? The one that means “like anthropomorphic, but with cats?”

Ailuromorphic.

Spell-checker does not recognize it as a word, but the etymology checks out, and it also doesn’t recognize “kittehserf,” so fuck it.

neuroticbeagle
8 years ago

@Fade
They were comparing fiction kin to religious beliefs as something one might think odd, but if it isn’t harmful, live and let live. In contrast, beliefs like misogyny and racism are inherently harmful therefore one should take a stand against it.

Personally, I thought Dvärghundspossen put it best when zie said:

think we should separate identity from belief, although they’re often intertwined. Beliefs are capable of being true or false independently of the honesty of the person expressing them, and therefore the analogy between religion and trans don’t always work, since more or less beliefs may be involved.

Also, Nepenthe has said some anti religious stuff before, though I don’t remember what thread it was in.

Fade
8 years ago

@neuroticbeagle

ah, that makes sense. I mean, odd but who cares as long as it’s making the person who believes it happy and not hurting anyone?

Fade
8 years ago

Yeah. Though I can see why some people like homeschool, after being homeschooled for a little I’m not a huge fan of it (it wasn’t for religious reasons; it was because of depression) Though to be fair, the state where I live has reaaaaaaallllly lax laws regarding homeschool. Pretty much if you tell the state your kids in homeschool you don’t have to teach them like, anything. You have to provide proof for them to graduate and get credit, but not for them to be counted as legally in school.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
8 years ago

I’m going to try staying really delicate here because I don’t want to cause offense, but one thing that is undeniable to me is that religion is one of the primary tools used to perpetuate misogyny and homophobia. So yes, while it is true that absent any societal context, religion is not “good” or “bad,” it is used to justify oppression around the world and causes immediate harm. We’re looking at a serious backlash against women’s agency right here in the United States….here we are in 2013 and we’re STILL debating the morality of contraceptives!! We have religious-based employers claiming that they have the right to choose what medical care their employees have access to. We have mainstream conservatives calling women sluts and prostitutes simply for arguing that student health care should cover contraceptives. We have literally hundreds of anti-choice bills being passed around the country, and we have mainstream conservative politicians arguing that women who are “really raped” do not conceive children and should not be allowed to have abortions.

I do believe that if religion should disappear tomorrow, human society would simply devise a different tool to maintain authority. And it’s true that my mother going to church every Sunday does no harm to me. But, the men who run this country and who use religion to limit my rights and to perpetuate fear and hatred do cause harm to me.

Fade
8 years ago

@Chie Satonaka

I agree that religion (or at least, Christianity, which is the only religion I am really familiar with) is often used to do real harm. I mean, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. But there is a difference between saying “I don’t trust religious people because they’re ridiculous” and “I don’t trust religious people because they often use their religion to justify isms*”

*the first time I typed “isms”, it wound up as “sims”. This is just amusing to me.

I do agree that the men who run the country and use religion to back up their awful views are doing harm, and while some of them might stop if they were no longer “backed up” by religion, I think a whole lot would just try to find other things to justify their misogyny, homophobia, and hate.

just for the clarification, I’m not really disagreeing with anyone here; I don’t feel like I’ve articulated my thoughts enough to do that. I’m just like, thinking. but out loud.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen

For instance, if someone says “I’m trans – because men and women are born with different brain structures, and I’m born with a female brain structure although I have a male body” this person isn’t just telling us her identity, but also that she believes certain things about the brain.

Speaking of brain structures, and the male and female dichotomy …

A study.

The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology has dealt a devastating blow to the notion that men and women are fundamentally different when it comes to how they think and act.

“Although gender differences on average are not under dispute, the idea of consistently and inflexibly gender-typed individuals is,” Bobbi J. Carothers of Washington University in St. Louis and Harry T. Reis of the University of Rochester explained in their study. “That is, there are not two distinct genders, but instead there are linear gradations of variables associated with sex, such as masculinity or intimacy, all of which are continuous.”

Analyzing 122 different characteristics from 13,301 individuals in 13 studies, the researchers concluded that differences between men and women were best seen as dimensional rather than categorical. In other words, the differences between men and women should be viewed as a matter of degree rather than a sign of consistent differences between two distinct groups.

Which I think everybody here knew anyway. But there’s what the science says.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

BTW, if you don’t feel like clicking through to the abstract? The title of the study is “Men and women are from Earth: Examining the latent structure of gender.”

Great title.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

@Fade: You’re not in Virginia, by any chance? I’ve heard that Virginia has NO laws about homeschooling, they don’t even check up on students.

I think young-earth creationism is inherently harmful because it draws conclusions that actively discourage people from investigating and learning about the universe.

Fade
8 years ago

No, I’m from indiana.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Well, it goes to show I shouldn’t take guesses based on one piece of information.

But seriously, there are “homeschooled” students in Virginia who are in their teens and can’t read because their parents never taught them to.

proudfootz
proudfootz
8 years ago

Regarding the illustration: I kinda do want to see the movie where Victor Mature is attacked by carnivorous flying squirrels…

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

I was homeschooled by fundies until college.

I’m a little sensitive on the subject.

Ally S
8 years ago

I was not only homeschooled, but also unschooled. I had no formal education whatsoever, and I spent most of my childhood playing – as a result, I didn’t even know what multiplication and division were by the age of 12. After I moved in with my father my education got a little better, but still not formal at all – my father made me teach myself everything. Fortunately, I caught up completely by the age of 15, and by the time I was 16, I was ready for community college.

People like to point out my quick catching up as proof that I’m some sort of prodigy, but I wish I was never unschooled. When my mother was “teaching” me, I had almost no direction (although to her credit she regrets homeschooling me and wishes that she was able to send me to high school at least), and when my father was “teaching” me, he was emotionally abusive and dismissive of my feelings. And above all, my social skills are still poor just because of mostly staying away from kids my age. In fact, it was only last April that I befriended another person in real life for the first time in 5 years.

I’m okay with homeschooling done right, but for the most part I’m very skeptical of people who homeschool their kids.

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

Fortunately, I caught up completely by the age of 15, and by the time I was 16, I was ready for community college.

That is harder than I have ever had to work in my entire life. Good on you.

I am not opposed to homeschooling, but I think it takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the parents to make it work. That means it’s the purview of the comfortable (they can live on one income) or the fundagelicals (they have to live on one income because women working outside the home is an abomination unto Nuggan).

And the public school system has been attacked enough by creationists and the private school industry. Tying funding to test scores was a stupid, hateful thing to do, and probably had some racist roots as well, seeing as the most overcrowded schools are urban and “urban” is often used to mean “not white.”

Falconer
Falconer
8 years ago

The comfortable can also afford private tutors for their children.

Marie
8 years ago

@kittehs

My sister just rang; her girl Sally has passed over. She had a stroke late last night and the vet came out and sent her Home this morning. 🙁

Oh 🙁 Internet hugs for you and your sister if you want them. Poor Sally.
@falconer

I think young-earth creationism is inherently harmful because it draws conclusions that actively discourage people from investigating and learning about the universe.

That I’ll agree with (I mean I agree with lots of stuff people are saying but this one out loud). I love learning about the universe and evolution (ok different things, but I like both) and lots of stuff I don’t think work with creationism, it’s one of my favorite science things to learn about, and idk how that would work if my parents were different (they were both religious but also both scientists), since some of it I got curious about at school. Um Im kind of rambling here, so Idk what my point is. Don’t judge too harshly plz (though do tell me if I said something offensive? what I mainly mean is my horrible use of the english language.) It is morning and my brain is not awake yet.

But seriously, there are “homeschooled” students in Virginia who are in their teens and can’t read because their parents never taught them to.

Oh wow 🙁

@Ally S

Not sure what to say besides offering you internet hugs (if you want them)>

Rambling about my experiences being homeschooled (which fade already mentioned, it was both of us).

Our parents didn’t really teach us during it, though they both had either work or try to find work, so I don’t really judge them for that. They tried to get us into other schools but it didn’t work that well. Mostly the homeschool stuff wasn’t actually happening, it was just what we were telling the school system so none of us got in legal trouble. Idk really what to say, just thinking out loud, other than it worked for me because I was just so unmotivated b/c of my depression (which I didn’t know I had at the time so I figured I was just totally lazy, but was also beyond caring that I wasn’t doing anything.) It also worked because I was in tenth grade when I dropped out, so I did get a decent amount of schooling in there :/ Idk I hope this makes sense.

Sorry for the weird comment, brain all frazzled today.

Ally S
8 years ago

Thanks Marie. =]

To clarify, I only started community college with one precalculus course – I didn’t start doing full semesters until I was about 17. I greatly value my experience at CC, though, for many reasons.

What was way more daunting in my “high school” years was studying for the SAT –
I got horrible scores both times, and the shaming I received from some family members was so unbearable that I felt worthless and stupid. At one point one of my uncles imposed a strict studying schedule for me that basically left me with no more than 3 hours of free time (total, across three breaks) and 6 hours of sleep.

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