Ever wonder why there are so few women engineers? Well, wonder no more, because carchamp1 over on the Men’s Rights subreddit has the answer! It’s apparently his wife’s fault, or something. In a comment with two dozen upvotes at last count, he explains:
I put my wife through four years of college to be an engineer. That’s four years worth of college tuition and expenses, plus not having any income from her. She got a great job and worked for a couple years. She decided she didn’t want to work anymore so she could be a “stay-at-home-mom”. When I urged her to work she said if I didn’t like it she would take our kid and I could leave.
Women don’t want to be engineers that’s why there are so few. It’s too hard. It’s a lot easier doing the “hardest job in the world”, you know, be a mom and living off your husband.
End of story.
Yeah, it’s not like there might be any other reasons beyond laziness and ingratitude, or anything.
Man, being a new commenter on moderation stinks 🙁 I feel like I’m missing out on the Mock the Troll party that the cool kids are having.
And I’m really good at Chase the Moving Goalposts, too!
*pout*
Ooh DKM how’s this: my mom climbed the corporate ladder into management faster than most of her peers, and once in a management role she won a respectable number of management awards. The first time she took some time off work (other than the 6 weeks each mat leave she was legally entitled to for her 2 kids) they started calling and begging for her to come back, to deal with some personality and productivity issues in her department.
I think the best way for you to deal with this, DKM, is to concentrate on the fact that she went from a more technical role to a more people-centred, “girly” role. It will make it easier to accept that she was an authority over several male colleagues – gasp, horror, the world is gone topsy-turvy!
I’ve never found that my presence in a workplace has caused the male employees to become slack-jawed idiots, because most men are able to do their jobs even under the incredible pressure of being on the same floor as a pretty young woman. Not that everyone thinks I’m pretty, but I happen to know several men and one woman at my last job thought I was attractive. Plus there were a ton of other pretty women.
Shut up, Meller. I know it burns your ass that we’re not all barefoot and pregnant, but still. You’re full of shit.
@DKM: Men outnumber and excel women in both quantity, and quality at rates of at least 20:1.
Only because of centuries of draconian legal restrictions to education and employment. Even after the laws changed SLIGHTLY a bit more than a century ago in this country and the UK, the rape and sexual harassment and discriminatory treatment (the fact that one English professor in my department always gave As to every male student and Bs to every female student in every course he taught year after year after year after year was I’m sure his totally objective assessment of our merits), as well as other socio-cultural factors both in education and employment exist.
DKM, you pathetically pustulant prick of a pompous pontificator, if men truly were so qualified and high quality, they wouldn’t have had to resort to all the external measures to keep competition from women down.
And, oh, by the way, what “quality” employment or degree do you have to brag about, as opposed to assuming that just because you have a dick, you’re better than the entirety of 51% of the world’s population?
Meller, why do you hate men so much? You’ve just said they have no control and are easily distracted.
On the earlier discussion of why a MRAL and NWO like to attack ozy: I always suspected one of the reasons a lot of trolls go directly after zir for zir genderqueer identity and not others (such as DSC) is that zie reaches out to them, and opens zirself up to them. I think that makes them feel vulnerable, and makes zir look like an easier target. It’s absurd to punish someone for their compassion towards you, but I think that’s exactly what they’re doing.
Viscaria – That’s absolutely what MRAL does, every time. He’s a kid desperately in need of help, but if he acknowledged that he wouldn’t be A MAN, so he goes through cycles of revealing his vulnerability and then furiously shoving away everyone who acknowledges it.
I also think he makes himself disgusting on purpose. NWO and DKM and B__don are disgusting by accident; they think they’re acting in a perfectly acceptable way. But when MRAL starts spouting off about how he hates “gashes” and wants to stick his boner in chicks he hates, I think he wants to disgust us, because at least that way he doesn’t have to feel like he’s being pitied.
Men outnumber and excel women in both quantity, and quality
Hmmm. DKM doesn’t appear to ‘excel anyone’ at grammar or punctuation, let alone ‘outnumber them in quality’, whatever the fuck that means.
I mean, I know it’s a minor point, and I know that general standards in this area are plummeting these days, but if he’s going to play the role of Most Patronising Cleverer-Than-Thou Fuckwad On The Internet, he could at least bring his rabid scrivenings above the technical level of a pretentious 14-year-old.
The trouble is, it doesn’t work. I’m far more disgusted by B___don, because he’s a narcissistic asshole with such a ridiculously inflated idea of his own (negligible) worth that I just want to reach into the screen and slap him. In all seriousness, he’s the only one of our quartet of regular trolls that I actively despise: DKM and Owly are so far gone that they’re more hilarious than anything else.
But when MRAL tries to gross us out, my reaction is more along the lines of wanting to pat him on the head and give him a cookie.
@Holly, yeah, that’s why I find MRAL so much more pleasant to deal with than He Who Must Not Be Named, even though, on the face of it, MRAL is posting much more vicious and hateful things. You can tell that MRAL is rageposting, lashing out from a site of pain. His Righteousness calmly spews ugly, amazingly self-centred drivel and thinks he’s being entirely reasonable.
Plus, I find the way He Who Is Summoned When One Speaks His Name thinks and uses language very personally triggering, since it reminds me of someone.
Ha, ninja’ed by Wetherby with a surprisingly similar comment.
Hm. NWO’s the one who triggers me, because the attack-sarcasm “of course you’re always right, Princess” thing is something I’ve been abused with before.
MRAL I think is the ultimate victim of masculinity culture–if he admitted that he has problems and has a lot to learn, he wouldn’t be A MAN, so he’d rather be a man in pain and isolation than risk being less manly for an instant.
I’m sorry, Holly :-/.
It’s Mr. B’s “now see, look what you made me do!” attitude that makes me need to avoid a lot of the threads he’s in. Sorry, child, you don’t get that thing you wanted because mommy didn’t ask right! Mommy does things wrong, and unfortunately there are consequences that negatively affect you. Maybe mommy should be a better mom and stop making those consequences happen. Also his insistence that there is only one way to live life and that’s his way.
B__don just reminds me of a whole lot of dickheads I’ve faced my whole life but fortunately never been too close to–the kind who are under the illusion that all emotion and compassion are weak girly things and thus illegitimate. They’re super strong men and don’t let themselves fall sway to such mirages! They’re objective!
(Funny how they’re very defensive and adamant about being objective, almost like they had some sort of emotional investment it…)
These are the kind of guys who can never understand why poor people have bad diets, because hey, lentils are healthy and they’re $2 a pound! Any excuse for not eating the most objectively efficient diet must be girly weakness!
The watchword of the B__don-type dickhead is “pfft, I’d never fall for that.”
I agree. And while I don’t think I’ve ever fallen into that trap myself, I can understand where he’s coming from.
The problem is, MRAL can’t keep the pose up for long – his mask keeps slipping.
>>He’s probably also one of those people who thinks they know everything about philosophy because they read a little Sartre (have I mentioned how much I utterly loathe those people).
Could be worse. They could have read a little Ayn Rand. Or Nietzsche (as much as I like some of Nietzsche, though nothing that wasn’t written better by Stirner).
B___don’s catchphrase is “you can say what you like about me: I don’t care”, yet his repeated insistence on explaining himself suggests that he cares very much indeed.
In fact, I think that this is the main reason why he keeps coming back here – he’s such an incorrigible narcissist that he genuinely believes that sooner or later we’ll be so irresistibly charmed by him that we’ll end up agreeing.
Otherwise, I can’t fathom what he gets out of the experience of having his stupid arguments ripped to shreds several times a week by people demonstrably better-informed, cleverer and wittier than he is, unless he’s some kind of masochist.
Holly said: MRAL I think is the ultimate victim of masculinity culture–if he admitted that he has problems and has a lot to learn, he wouldn’t be A MAN, so he’d rather be a man in pain and isolation than risk being less manly for an instant.
You summed it up better then I ever could.
Bran-din has this kind of pseudo-Randian philosophy combined with the gender essentailism common to all the trolls here (I sound like my AD&D Monster book -_-;;). Things like strong willpower are inherently masculine in his eyes. In his own words, a woman who is strong of will is “basically a man” (by that logic, Rarity is very manly XD). He also has this philosophy of “my way is right, you must be strong and only I know how that can be achieved,” which I detest immensely because my girlfriends abusive mother had a very similar pattern.
@Wetherby:
Yes. Ugh, yes.
@Demios:
Also this, ugh. I can’t talk about this anymore (which of course is not me saying that y’all shouldn’t continue) but I might come back and whine about it in the forums after my exam.
I really, honestly wish MRAL could find a way to be happy with himself and his surroundings.
Tell that to Sophie Germaine and Madame Curie! 😛
Now that a whole generation of women has grown up being taught they could be anything they want to be and that there are no longer any (academic)gender barriers, certain branches of science are now dominated by women. Notably chemistry. The only engineering field I can see having at least 50% women or more is genetic engineering.
Good luck on your exam! I have to take one now too.
Three more hours of microbiology and then I’m freeeeeee
If only you had DKM around to whisper the answers into your ear.
Sadly, you’re doomed to inevitable and miserable failure, but I wish you luck anyway.
Nobody said that “men would turn into ‘slobbering animals’ if women infested the workplace” or the professions. All that is needed is for a nearby female to be noticed, and almost inevitably, a question arises “what the F**k is SHE doing here”? If she is ignored, she will find a way to be noticed, instigating rivalries among nearby males, conspiring to get other members of the sisterhood hired or promoted (a feminist counterpart to the so-called “old-boy’s” network), getting advantages either by “sleeping her way to the top” if, by chance, she is sexually attractive, or by threatening “discrimination” legal action if she isn’t. This is of course, more effective if there are other women infesting the workplace in question, where they can ‘gang up” and reinforce each others’ perjury regarding so-called “discrimination”.
As far as “science and engineering doing very well”?
Not on this planet, or with your species, they aren’t! Where is commercially available fusion power? Where is the SStO (Single Stage to Orbit) “aerospaceplane”? Where are the cheaply affordable, commercially widespread powercells capable of powering air-conditioners, refrigerators, or 52-inch HDTV sets? Where are manned lunar colonies, and commercial Earth-Moon transportation? Where is the Over-the-counter cure for at least one type of widespread cancer (even in stage 1) with 99% reliability and no major side effects?
When are we going to have the same degree of control of gravitation and inertia that the XIXth century gave us over electromagnetism–Which was just as poorly understood in 1800 as e.g.gravitation and inertia were in 1911?
All of these inventions and technologies to say nothing of many others, except for gravity and inertia control, were projected quite reasonably, in the years following WWII to be available long before 2012! I put understanding, if not control over, gravitation and inertia here to make a valid comparison with XIX century’s eventual control over, and profitable commercialization of, electromagnetism.
Where are the multibillion (multitrillion?) $$$ opportunities in space manufacturing and undersea mining? Where are the (at least theoretical explorations) of phenomena like zero-point vacuum energy, low-temperature/chemically assisted nuclear reactions, low-mass (“hydrino”) energy, or aetherometry? These phenomena are too new and as yet poorly understood (like electricity in 1830) for large scale commercial application and technology, but you would think that a LOT of very intelligent people–even women–would be curious!!
Where are our room temperature superconductors? You would think that with a twenty or thirty year lead time, at least some prototypes allowing us to use electricity without resistance at (or around room temperature) would be available in laboratories, if not homes, factories or large motor vehicles.
NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING!
The pace, the availability, and the rate of progress has enormously slowed (and become vastly more expensive) in the past half-century or so! I don’t think that the reason is only, or even primarily, the feminization of the sciences–the bureaucratization of them by government, universities,corporations and similar parasites played a more important role, along with the colossal misdirection of investment and invention into the military, the pharmatoxin and agritoxin monopolies, and a patent and copyright system that rewards overinvestment in current technologies–whatever its flaws–and penalizes investment in new and uncertain future technologies–whatever their benefits. When reinforced by Multibillion $$$$ Corporations and universities, stagnation and corruption becomes inevitable.
Once again, infesting the personnel with women (and men of dubious competence, as well)has, I submit crippled invention, theoretical research, and technological and industrial application of many fields, and we are all greatly impovershed as a result!
You know, I’m nineteen and 103/104ths, and I’ve somehow managed to refrain from being a fuckhead on the Internet. So I’m not exactly pleased with this “nineteen-year-olds are all fuckheads” thesis.
Although I was a bit of a fuckhead (and a terrible, terrible writer) when I was twelve; I grew out of it. But if I’d had a female equivalent of the MRM to coddle me instead of sex-positive feminism to kick my ass when I was a Nice Girl (TM) I might be a fuckhead now.
Good luck on your test, I have 2 tomorrow (Cognitive Neuroscience and Computer Architecture).