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Dudes’ Republic of China

The inhabitants of Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit seem to have developed a sudden crush on the authoritarian Chinese government. Why? Well, it seems that the lovable tyrants have decided to crack down on evil golddigger bitches. According to an article in The Telegraph, linked to in the subreddit,

In a bid to temper the rising expectations of Chinese women, China’s Supreme Court has now ruled that from now on, the person who buys the family home, or the parents who advance them the money, will get to keep it after divorce.

“Hopefully this will help educate younger people, especially younger women, to be more independent, and to think of marriage in the right way rather than worshipping money so much,” said Hu Jiachu, a lawyer in Hunan province.

The ruling should also help relieve some of the burden on young Chinese men, many of whom fret about the difficulty of buying even a small apartment.

Never mind that the lopsided demographics in China today — where young men greatly outnumber young women, making it harder for young men to find wives  — are not the result of excess feminism, but the result of a toxic mixture of cultural misogyny and the authoritarian regime’s “one child” program. As William Saletan explains the logic in Slate:

Girls are culturally and economically devalued; the government uses powerful financial levers to prevent you from having another child; therefore, to make sure you can have a boy, you abort the girl you’re carrying.

The result? 16 million “missing girls” in China. Ironically, the skewed ratio of men to women gives young women considerable leverage in chosing whom to marry – and that’s what the Men’s Rightser’s seem to see as the real injustice here.

As Evil Pundit wrote, evidently speaking for many (given the numerous upvotes he got):

Wow. I’ve always disliked the authoritarian Chinese government, but for once, it’s done something good.

I may need to reconsider my attitude.

IncrediblyFatMan added:

China wants to become the next superpower and world leader. They aren’t going to do it by allowing the kinds of social decay that rot away at the competing nations.

Revorob joked:

If they brought that in over here, most women in Australia would be living on the street.

“Or,” Fondueguy quipped in response, “they could learn to work.”

At the moment, all the comments in the thread praising the Chinese government for this move (and there are many more)  have net upvotes; the only comment in the negative? One suggesting that the Telegraph isn’t exactly a reliable source.

Speaking of which, here’s a more balanced look at the issue on China.org.cn that examines some of the consequences of the new ruling for Chinese women.

Let’s look at some of those. According to one Beijing lawyer quoted in the piece:

“[H]ousewives, especially those in the rural areas who have no job and are responsible for taking care of their families, will be affected most by this new change,” she said. “If their husbands want a divorce, they are likely to be kicked out of the house with nothing.”

Luo Huilan, a professor of women’s studies at China Women’s University in Beijing, agreed.

In rural areas, she said, men have the final say in family matters. All essential family assets, such as home, car and bank deposits, are registered in the men’s names, and women fill the roles of only wife, mother and farmworker.

“Their labor, though substantial, hardly gets recognition. Without a good education, they have to rely heavily on their husbands,” Luo said. “In case of divorce, a woman is driven out of her husband’s life, home and family, and finds herself an alien even in her parents’ home. No wonder the new interpretation of the Marriage Law has aroused concern among women.”

And no wonder it’s drawn cheers on the Men’s Rights subreddit.

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Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

NWO – No one owns a contract, ever, even a business contract. You can only be a party to a contract.

The state enforces contracts.

In the case of marriage and divorce, the state’s role is often more “mediation” than even enforcement, because there’s usually a lot of negotiation about money and children, not just an edict handed down by the judge. (Although of course it will come to that if there’s an issue neither party will budge on. But the judge would prefer not to make a unilateral ruling if the parties are able to come to an agreement.)

Sharculese
10 years ago

Look at any State document, credit card you own. Your name will always be in capital letters. Any letters you recieve in the mail which aren’t a legal contract, only the first letter of your name will be capitalized.

no i take it back its this

nobody ‘owns’ a contract you goonybird, certainly not a third party. its a set of obligations between two people.

Rachel
Rachel
10 years ago

The fail is so strong it hurts. On legally binding contracts the names are always capitalized? That is how you figure out if a contract is binding? Are you serious? So…I take it you have never heard of oral contracts…right?

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy
“also, as the State (well, elected officials and bureaucrats, anyway) has a significant majority of men in the upper levels, what exactly do they have to gain by giving women all the money?”

They gain power of course. Do you really believe any elected official cares about you? Theres 435 men and women ad the top, they don’t care.

If they say, “we need more hospitals for women and children.” Everyone says, “hey that sounds pretty nifty, lets help women and children!”

If they say, (think Biden) “violence against women is the worst crime in the world.” He said something along those lines. He just tagged a couple hundred billion more in taxes. Police forces will get some. More agencies will be formed. The money will flow and the Government will grow. Feminism is a cash cow.

Theres a gap in CEOs, oh hell lets have an agency, make a law, enforce those laws, lets have overseers, over seeing the overseers. Shit, theres apparently even a happiness gap. Lets set up an agency, raise them taxes. feminists are stooges to bring about total State control. Why do you think so many feminists are proud communists? Cause thats all feminism every was. Now go run to the State and beg for more laws.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy

Again I ask you Holly. If the State isn’t the owner of the marriage contract how can the grant any action at all?

Is your name in all capital letters on your credit card? Your drivers license? You checking account? All capitals means corporate.

Doesn’t the credit card you have, have your name in capital letters? That’s corporate. Anytime your name appears in all capitals that is corporate.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy
“NWO – No one owns a contract, ever, even a business contract. You can only be a party to a contract.”

Well if thats the case, go sign a contract to borrow money and buy a house. But don’t pay the bill ever. I’ll bet the “owner” of the contract quickly becomes the “owner” of your house.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

The way you know if it is a legal contract is if your name is in all capital letters. Look at any State document, credit card you own. Your name will always be in capital letters. Any letters you recieve in the mail which aren’t a legal contract, only the first letter of your name will be capitalized.

Fucking awesome!

Good thing I learned this before my advanced contracts class starts. Now I’m ahead of the game!

(I can only imagine what my professor would say if even a 1L came to class spouting this nonsense. She’s a very nice woman. I imagine it would be a long talk about how the law is maybe not for you, and a referral to a therapist.)

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

Everybody must be looking on wikipedia to see if capital letters mean corporate, since the replys have stopped. I mean everyone here is a wikipedia genius. Just so ya know, wikipedia is really just peoples opinions. If we got a coupls million people to write in and say the moon was made of blue cheese, (mildly sharp), that’s exactly what it would say.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Well if thats the case, go sign a contract to borrow money and buy a house. But don’t pay the bill ever. I’ll bet the “owner” of the contract quickly becomes the “owner” of your house.

Out of the many, many, many wrong things the slaveman has commented on this blog, none has ever amused me more than this line of inquiry. Doesn’t the contract need to be signed in blood, too? Tell us more, the slaveman! Fucking contracts. How do they work?

*pops popcorn*

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

The state awards child support based on parentage, with or without a marriage license.

Also, names in all capitals? Really? You actually think that means anything?

Rachel
Rachel
10 years ago

NWOslave – the replies have stopped because you have succeeded in proving that you know nothing about contracts or their formation (or enforceability). You look at your junk mail and that is how you have determined what is or is not a contract. Your complete lack of understanding of the very basics of the law is astounding.

I guess the point is, you can’t argue with stupid. I could sit here and type up all of the legal requirements of a contract (none of which are “must contain the names of the parties in all capital letters) until my fingers fall off, and you would still be as deliberately ignorant as you are right now.

I do have to thank you though. You definitely gave me a good laugh. As I sit here, at my desk, ironically reviewing contracts, your interpretation of what a contract is and how you know it is binding was a great break! I actually sent off your description to a couple of law school friends of mine, who also got a good chuckle. So, thanks for that!

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Bee

Really? Advanced contracts? You’ll be hittin caps lock a whole lot for any legal contract.
Credit card addressed to you that you own, JOHN DOE.
Credit card adressed to you that wants your business, John Doe.

Corporate is capital, Non-corporate isn’t.

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

I thought all capitals was, you know, more legible.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Rachel

Really Rachel, find me a corporate contract that doesn’t use capital letters for your entire name. Then get back to me.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@captainbathrobe
“The state awards child support based on parentage, with or without a marriage license.

Also, names in all capitals? Really? You actually think that means anything?”

The only reason the State can do anything is because of the contract they own. I’ll ask you, how else could the State grant anything, backed by force unless they held the contract enabling them to do so.

Capitals is corporate.

Yikes, I used to give you people the slightest chance of having a small measure of working knowlege of State, finances, markets and such, but certainly not now.

pervocracy
10 years ago

I stopped replying because I went off to spend time with people.

But here I am on my phone and laughing.

NWO, where exactly did you learn these fascinating things about contracts? Is there a specific book (or caps-heavy, gif-spattered website), or is it just your accumulated worldly knowledge?

Rachel
Rachel
10 years ago

NOWslave – most, not all, contracts do use capital letters for the parties names (as do case captions in court documents and various other legal documents). However, the fact that something is or is not written in capital letters has no bearing on the enforceability of the contract.

Contract, defined – “A contract is an agreement between two or more persons consisting of a (promise that is) (set of promises that are) legally enforceable.” Kansas Pattern Jury Instructions, 4th, 124.01.

Formation of a contract – “A contract may be made in any manner sufficient to show agreement. It may be oral or written, or implied from the conduct of the parties.” Kansas Pattern Jury Instructions, 4th, 124.03.

Consideration – “For a promise to be legally enforceable, something of value must be bargained for and given in exchange for the promise. This is called consideration. ‘Something of value’ may consist of promises (such as a promise to pay money or to perform services or to deliver goods), an act (such as the payment of money, the delivery of goods, or the performance of services), or a forbearance (such as forbearance to sue, to compete, to promise, or to act).” Kansas Pattern Jury Instructions, 4th, 124.12

Please note – these are the very basics of contract law and these instructions are meant to help juries decide cases dealing with a contract dispute. There are no special standards for corporate contracts versus personal contracts. The same elements are necessary for all…and still, no requirement that names be in capital letters.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

I think NWO has finally broken my brain…

Capital letters? CAPITAL LETTERS?!

Contracts are not owned by the state. They can be enforced by the state, mediated by the state, and in some cases dissolved by the state. But not owned. That’s. Not. The. Way. A. Contract. Works.

For example, in the hypothetical presented by Captain Bathrobe (way to be patient, Captain) the “State” may make a child custody ruling for case in which the parents were never married. No contract. The “State” will still make a ruling and have the power to enforce it.

As for the rest of it, the very idea that you think you have some sort of superior knowledge of finance and markets “and such” while you constantly gripe about your poverty, your “miserable wage” etc., is just…

Well, it’s just you. Your claim to be an expert in these fields is, on its face, as absurd as your claim to be inventor.

Rachel
Rachel
10 years ago

Pervocracy – its his worldly knowledge…it has to be.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Hmmmmmmmm.

I drew up lots of contracts, back in my old job. Some between two individuals, some between two businesses, some between an individual and a business. Sometimes certain words in the contract would be in all caps, including the names of the parties. You know what the difference was, the slaveman?

You’ll never guess. It’s really devious. Shh … don’t tell.

It depended on who did the data entry when the information came in. INSIDIOUS, isn’t it?

But that was our office. I imagine in other offices it depends on the word processing software, or the style that someone’s chosen for training data processors.

I don’t really know why I’m arguing against someone who thinks that the number on his birth certificate is bought and sold on NASDAQ, but oh, what the hell. Do you want some popcorn, the slaveman? Or are you too busy fixing milk machines?

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

re NWO: the dumbfuckery is strong with this one…

captainbathrobe
10 years ago

I wonder if there’s a half-baked conspiracy theory that NWO doesn’t swallow whole.

You know the real truth, Slavey! Why oh why won’t these sheeple wake up?

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

@Rachel

Call up your credit card company and demand them to not use capital letters. I’ll betcha can’t. Seriously, it’s so easy to prove I’m wrong, one little phone call.

Rachel
Rachel
10 years ago

NWOslave – why would I do that? Who the f cares if my name is in capital letters? The debts I owe, I owe regardless of whether my name is in capital letters.

Seriously, you can’t argue with stupid, and I don’t know why I am trying. You obviously have only a tenuous grasp on reality…and no grasp of the law.

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