The general line amongst manosphere misogynists is that American women are a bunch of stuck-up princesses whose “ginas” – that is, vaginas – tingle only in the presence of “thugs” and “alpha males.” But one YouTube ranter calling himself LogicJunkie has a somewhat different theory, as he recently explained in a note to the moderator of the Happier Abroad forums. American women, it turns out, are basically all Nazis at heart, “preoccupied with … eugenic perfection in males.” Let’s follow LogicJunkie’s, er, logic:
American females regard as a “creep” any guy who isn’t at least six feet tall, with a pronounced chin, a jock physique, and, in general, Ken doll good Aryan looks. And money is important, too, but not nearly as important as the physiological eugenics. So, in good Germanic fashion, I think what they’re mainly concerned about, is somehow being contaminated by the mere presence of the inferior. …
America is, now more than ever, a Germano-eugenicist death camp, wrapped in the facade of “capitalism” and “corporatism” and “pop culture” and blah, blah, blah. But it’s all about covertly advancing the genetic omnipresence of the Teutonic physiological ideal.
I hate to poop on LogicJunkie’s logic here but, dude, if all the women you’re meeting turn out to be eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis, it does not therefore follow that all American women are eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis. It may just mean you should stop cruising for chicks at Klan meetings.
MRAL, look, I’ll grant you that short men are actually discriminated against to some degree: I’ve seen studies suggesting that taller men earn a bit more than shorter men, on average.
And though I haven’t seen any scientific studies based on representative samples, I know that on OkCupid women are more likely to send unsolicited messages to taller men (at least if they’re shorter than 6’8″; apparently women don’t prefer reall really tall men). (Tall women, by contrast, get a much smaller percentage of unsolicited messages than shorter women.)
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-biggest-lies-in-online-dating/
But in the grand scheme of things, the amount of discrimination faced by guys like you who are an inch or two shorter than average is really not that great. Short people were never denied the right to vote; they were never systematically denied education; cities aren’t segregated by height. Taxi drivers don’t refuse to pick up short men.
Heck, you could easily add an inch or two to your height by buying shoes with thick soles. And then you’d be of average height.
But here’s the thing: most women don’t care about height. True, some do, and that might put you at a very slight disadvantage. But again, I see short guys with conventionally attractive girlfriends/wives all the fucking time. In the end, most people do pair up, short and tall alike.
You know what really puts you at a disadvantage? Your constant whining about shit that isn’t really that important. Your total lack of perspective about this shit. And, oh yeah, your anger towards and hatred of women, especially fat women.
Women generally speaking don’t like going out with angry, bitter men who regularly refer to all women as “bitches.” Maybe if you were a rapper you could get away with that, but you’re not.
(By the way, Eminem is reportedly about 5’7″ or 5’8″ tall.)
That quote had a ‘citation needed’ next to it in the Wikipedia entry. Do you know any studies that actually show this?
Well sure. Height discrimination does exist, in the same way that discrimination against all sorts of things does. People who are “too” short, “too” tall, overweight, unattractive, nonwhite, trans, QUILTBAG, not judeochristian, disabled–all those things may work against a person in the workplace or in some aspect of life.
The thing is, you seem to think you’ve got it the worst. Because you’re what? A white hetero able-bodied male in the U.S. who’s a shade under 5’9″? And you have some kind of facial blemish? I mean, I get it. It’s awful being you. You’ve made that really clear. Maybe you need therapy to get through the pain of not being three inches taller.
NWO:
“I’m an MRAer, have I done any of these things?”
Your association with the MRA movement is proof enough that you are a branded misogynist whose forehead should be tattooed with a warning to others.
“I have legitimate concerns. When things are written into LAW that usurp a persons rights, I find that a problem.”
MRAs view “their rights” the same as tax evaders view theirs. IE, what you THINK are “rights” really aren’t. But it’s interesting to listen to MRAs go on and on about it in brilliant displays of their senses of entitlement.
Also, MRAL, your ignorance about weight is quite remarkable. Genetics basically determine weight relative to others in your society; in a society like ours where unhealthy food is cheap and readily available and in which most people don’t perform physical labor, people tend to be fatter than they likely would have been 100 years ago.
Losing weight in the short term is not that hard. Keeping it off, however, is almost impossible. In the long run, diets almost always fail. Nor is exercise a magic elixir (it tends to make people hungry, and since cheap food is everywhere they eat more). Exercise is very good for people in lots of ways, but it doesn’t necessarily reduce weight by much if at all.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/books/review/Bazelon.t.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html
I have a friend who, when he was a toddler, had battery acid thrown in his face.
It destroyed his face. He had to have multiple skin grafts, lost an eye, the eye he still has doesn’t work, and his face looks like some kind of frankenstein mess.
He’s also short.
So: he’s short, blind, has a face that looks like Freddy Kruger’s, and guess what?
He’s happily married to a thin, attractive woman and has two wonderful kids.
He *never, ever* complains about being mistreated because of his appearance. However he does complain about how poorly society accommodates the blind.
But he also doesn’t just complain about it: he’s a computer programmer who has done extensive work in building assistive devices for the blind.
If you can see, have two eyes, and have a face that isn’t hugely disfigured, you probably oughta be whining *less* than my friend about your lot in life, not *more*.
@ Bee:
What does QUILTBAG mean?
Here’s a link of US presidents who were under 6′ tall. Some of them were pretty short. So height isn’t even a deterrent to becoming the leader of the free world. Ergo, short men can shut the fuck up about being too short or being discriminated against.
http://www.amiannoying.com/(S(tlkqui2bgb23sgauhotmnxmn))/collection.aspx?collection=12617
Then make it a point to exercise right before normal mealtimes. That’s what I do. Everything I can control I excel at, but I’ve been granted the shit end in every single facet of life I cannot control. Therefore, fuck fat people, ESPECIALLY tall, white, and female fat people. Since those are the privileged classes, they have been gifted but are too FUCKING WEAK to take advantage of it.
@Lady Victoria: Oh no! I read it somewhere, and now I’ve forgotten where. It’s an acronym for non-heterosexual identities. This site says it stands for Queer Lesbian Trans Bi Gay, but I think it’s also meant to be more inclusive, like (and forgive me if I leave something out or make a mistake…) Queer Undecided Intersex Lesbian Transsexual/transgender Bi Asexual Gay.
“cheap food is everywhere”
Ain’t it the truth. I was at the grocery store the other day buying groceries for my boyfriend and I for Cinco De Mayo. Colored bell peppers were $3 each. Even a clamshell full of brussels sprouts, which we both love, was almost $3. Eating healthy is ridonkulously difficult and expensive and I admit I have many shopping advantages including access to a base commissary and a chain of discount grocery stores nearby that sell some produce.
Neither one of us is fat (though we have both gained a few since hooking up, we eat when happy), we actively TRY to eat responsibly and it’s a challenge.
Everything I can control I excel at
What about your angry, unpleasant personality?
Wait, women who are tall, white and fail to be thin and take advantage of their “privilege” should be hated. But women who are tall, white, and thin, and who do take advantage of their privilege, are bitches.
Hmm.
I get it. You just hate women. All of them.
I for one welcome our new tall, white, fat, female overlords.
Thanks, Bee! I like that acronym much more than LGBT – easier to remember, and kind of fun to say 🙂
Obviously, MRAL is a fan of the Oppression Olympics.
“Just one question for any of you really.
Are you innocent until proven guilty?”
No, you are innocent if you are innocent and guilty if you are guilty. The “proven” part is about to what degree we have to be able to demonstrate guilt before punishing. In a criminal case, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The presumption means that the prosecutor has to demonstrate guilt-the defendant does not have to demonstrate innocent. So, you have a presumption of innocence until proven guilty, not actual innocence. You are only actually innocent if you did not do it, regardless of whether or not we whether you did it or not.
As to economic class, of course economic class is also a privilege. Not that being poor negates your male or white privilege. Also, on the wealth thing, my father is a crackhead and my mother makes less than $11,000 a year (she brought up four kids on that), so do not feed me bullshit lines about being poor, especially while spouting hateful and vile shit about poor communities (especially poor communities of color). But, you know what? I still do not pretend that even at a standard of living considered pretty damned awful in developed nation terms (I have lived without running water at times-horray me!), that I was not born with first world economic privilege to live at that level.
@MRAL, again with the correlation/causation issue. People who have better access to nutrition and medical care often end up taller than their peers. Social mobility in the US being what it is, CEOs and other high paid people are almost exclusively born and raised upperclass.
On the issue of the numbers of queer couples raising children-this is the US Census Bureau’s American Community survey data:
“The nation’s highest percentage of gay couples raising children is in the East-South-Central region, which includes Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee, where 26.3 percent of same-sex couples are raising children. The West-South-Central region, including Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas, follows closely with 26 percent, the nation’s second-highest total. The New England region, including Maine, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont, came in behind the southern states. Census data shows 24.4 percent of gay couples in that area are raising children.”
(http://www.lsureveille.com/news/gay-parenting-higher-in-south-1.2450511 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/us/19gays.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1)
Contrary to popular belief, poor queer people, southern queer people, and queer people of color heavily dominate the ranks of queer parents.
San Antonio Texas folks-queer parenting capitol of the US (34% of couples surveyed had kids).
Everything I can control I excel at, but I’ve been granted the shit end in every single facet of life I cannot control.
Would “being a douche” be one of those things in your control or out of it? Because you certainly excel in that area.
Ah, Bee beat me too it.
@ MRAL
And bitter, negative, rude, whiny FUCKS can make themselves NOT ASSHOLES. If they don’t, they’re worthless and deserve nothing.
If you were magically transformed into a young Denzel Washington, people would still dislike you. Because you are unpleasant. You have a shitty personality.
And don’t tell me you’ve “been spit on” by people and expect me to buy that as an excuse for your nasty attitude and behavior. Obviously, you have not literally been spit on, so what the fuck do you mean when you keep saying this? Can you give concrete examples of how you’ve been mistreated? Do you have any real proof that it was because of a wonky eye or being slightly shorter than average height…as opposed to you being an asshole?
Here’s what I bet you mean when you say, “spit on.” You asked out some girl out and she was kinda mean when she said no. And the head cheerleader wasn’t in love with you. And some meathead jock guys pushed you against a locker or something. This is not a unique experience. You are not a special snowflake. GET OVER IT.
I was picked on a lot in high school and people didn’t want to date me either. I did hold grudges for longer than I should have and continued to be an unloved dork. I guess I could have been like, “IT’S ALL THE FAULT OF THE JEWS” or something. Instead, I realized I was acting like a jerk and all my moaning made me no goddamn fun to be around. I got some therapy, made an effort to change my perspective on the world, and made some real friends.
It isn’t easy, but it’s certainly doable. You can get some therapy. If your brain chemistry is out of wack, you are privileged to live in a world with antidepressants. Don’t whine about not having the money. If you do the research, you’ll find that even in the USA, there ARE ways to access affordable mental health care. (Tell me what state you live in & I’ll post links.) If you are completely broke, your public library is free and should have books about cognitive behavioral therapy, complete with exercises and homework you can work on (yes, it requires WORK) to hopefully correct your fucked up perspective on the world.
You have no right to complain about fat people not taking responsibility for improving themselves when you aren’t willing to do so yourself.
/rant, apologies for any typos
@MRAL
For the good of yourself and all of humanity that has to deal with you, get thee to a therapist, pronto.
Wow, I didn’t even see Draize Train’s comment before I posted. Well, there’s two votes that MRAL needs therapy.
MRAL, perhaps it would be helpful for you to consider the non physical reasons you are attracted to the individual women that interest you. Then consider the non physical things about yourself that these women might be attracted to. To that end the thought experiment I proposed up thread may be helpful to you.
I think the tragic thing about our friend MRAL is that the solution is well within his control: he can actually try to work on himself to be more pleasant, more confident, happier and mentally more healthy. He can work on revising his expectations for a mate by focusing on qualities such as personality and intellect, rather than looks.
Instead, he insists that his difficulties are the result of factors beyond his control. The truly sad thing is that the MRM was able to sell him the usual bill of goods–i.e., follow our movement, and those bitches will learn to respect you. Yet, by his own admission, he has no idea how the MRM will deliver on that promise–only that “higher level MRM scholars” will show him the way.
Still, he seems like a reasonably right boy, so maybe one day he will wake up to the fact that he’s been had.
That should have read bright boy.