The general line amongst manosphere misogynists is that American women are a bunch of stuck-up princesses whose “ginas” – that is, vaginas – tingle only in the presence of “thugs” and “alpha males.” But one YouTube ranter calling himself LogicJunkie has a somewhat different theory, as he recently explained in a note to the moderator of the Happier Abroad forums. American women, it turns out, are basically all Nazis at heart, “preoccupied with … eugenic perfection in males.” Let’s follow LogicJunkie’s, er, logic:
American females regard as a “creep” any guy who isn’t at least six feet tall, with a pronounced chin, a jock physique, and, in general, Ken doll good Aryan looks. And money is important, too, but not nearly as important as the physiological eugenics. So, in good Germanic fashion, I think what they’re mainly concerned about, is somehow being contaminated by the mere presence of the inferior. …
America is, now more than ever, a Germano-eugenicist death camp, wrapped in the facade of “capitalism” and “corporatism” and “pop culture” and blah, blah, blah. But it’s all about covertly advancing the genetic omnipresence of the Teutonic physiological ideal.
I hate to poop on LogicJunkie’s logic here but, dude, if all the women you’re meeting turn out to be eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis, it does not therefore follow that all American women are eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis. It may just mean you should stop cruising for chicks at Klan meetings.
MRAL: If you’re still reading this thread, you shouldn’t feel so self conscious about your height. I am only one woman who happens to like tall men, and I do not speak on behalf of any other women in the world, only myself. I think it’s also important to note that my husband is 80 pounds overweight, and that I find that attractive, too. I don’t like muscular men, but big boned, plus size men. I know other women that don’t like it when men have a gut, but I don’t mind it. I’m trying to say that everyone has a type they find more attractive, and it’s not universal. I like men at least 6’0 tall and at least 250 lb. My best friend is very pretty and her boyfriend is very short and skinny.
By the way, a great personality goes a long way in making even the least conventionally attractive people more attractive. A confident, kind man with a good sense of humor wins out over a hunk any day.
@ Johnny Pez
And unless he lives in NYC or San Francisco or another unusually expensive part of the country, S40K is very comfortably middle-class, no?
Even if child support/alimony payments take out 20% of that, she’s still making over $30K. (I know someone on here posted the average child support payments and it was much less than that, more like a few thousand a year. I’ll defer to someone who knows where to get those stats…) $30K is far below grinding poverty. (That’s what I lived off of for several years and I felt lucky to be making that much money. And I live in a large urban area, not exactly a cheap place to live.)
Yet, with no self-awareness whatsoever he was all, “Boo hoo, I am so oppressed and paid peanuts for my horrible job. I will die in a gutter.”
Seriously, if he is struggling to live off of $40K a year, he needs to stop blaming feminists and start being more responsible with his money. Or maybe adjust his values, live within his means, and cut out some unnecessary luxuries like–well, I don’t know WTF he’s blowing his money on. Harems of sexbots, maybe.
There are plenty of people in this country–men and women–who work dangerous, physically demanding jobs that get paid much less than $19/hour. More like $8-$10 an hour–a few dollars more than minimum wage is the premium they get for endangering their health. And if they are illegal immigrants, they might be getting paid less than minimum wage.
Good lord, what whiny fucking babies. And MRAL seriously compares the great suffering of being shorter than average to racism. Do you think he says shit like out loud, in the real world?
Yeah, I remember when I first heard about those “You Must Be This Tall To Enter” signs posted in front of voting booths, systematically denying short men of their civil rights for decades.
Also, can he not conceive of being BOTH short and non-white? What about those guys?
MRAL: The national average is 5’10”? There must be some hidden pocket of giants then, because I’ve lived/travelled all over the country and my 5’9″ has been pretty much the average everywhere I’ve gone.
I’m moving to NC from SF, and one of the things I’ve noticed there is the spread is greater, with a lot more “short” men. Really MRAL the more I see the more I think the problem might lie with you, not, “the bitches”. I say this because I’ve never had any problem getting women to pay attention to me (hell, some have even gone out of their way to get me to pay attetion to them). I’ve struck out some, but that’s because people do all want the same sort of thing. I’ve been not hired at companies which would probably have benefitted from my working for them too. That, as they say, is life.
Correction, NYC. I can’t think of any reason to go back to North Carolina. I didn’t enjoy my (short) stay there at all.
You mean the indians? Don’t forget we are stuck with a stupid accent and excess body hair too… Man are we dealt the poor genetic hand for attractiveness…
NOWSlave: I have to say that MRAL is more intellectually honest; and therefore actually more challenging. He may be a an asshat, and something of a dolt, but he actually makes consistent complaints, and practical arguments.
That said fidelity means, in the context of interpersonal relationships, hewing to the terms of the agreement made. If sleeping with others is agreed to, than to sleep with someone else isn’t unfaithful. If one has to get consent first, then sleeping with another without that consent is unfaithful. It’s a really simple idea really. Establish a contract, keep it.
To address your claim of keeping people here honest, nonsense. You make shit up. You have preconceptions (a rising crime rate) and anyone who corrects you gets, not supporting evidence for your claim, but a bit of contradiction. That’s not argument. It barely merits dismissal as “unsupported”. It certainly doesn’t sharpen anyone’s ability to reason, or argue; because there’s meat on your bones.
The abortion/crime correlation is from an economist, Steven D. Levitt. There are, actually, some serious flaws in his allegation of causation, but the fact is that crime went down in the early ’90s, which (loosely, that’s one of the flaws in his argument) with the onset of legal abortions (the study fails to account for the variability of abortion availability; i.e. it wasn’t uniformly unavailable even in the states where it was nominally illegal; he fails to account for differentials in rates of abortion across social class, much less economic [i.e. he assumes the motivations of a white, middle-class woman will be the same motivations for all women] and doesn’t note the crime rate decrease actually leads the cohort maturation; which is in part hidden by his have a rather larger cohort grouping than he ought (14-21 year olds). His modeling also failed to account for the effect of drug laws removing a significant portion of the poorer, esp. black, population from the broader society; esp. during the ages of peak violence. In short I don’t think more than correlation can be laid to it. Esp. as other places (the Netherlands) which also legalised abortion in the same time frame didn’t see any such decrease.
The factors are too complex.
NWO. I see you think Romania under ceaucescu was not a dictatorship, which is what ambesia said. I begin to see the reason you don’t cite sources.
As to the, “fatherless society” the issue there is the society. Iceland has a cultural preference (now, it wasn’t always so; though it was never stigmatised the way it is here) for non-marital births. There is no, “norm” for the entire world. Which shows the roles you think are “natural” are constructs.
Avicenna-are you sure it was not because they really do not understand the importance of caring for such a thing? Or how to?
Just because you build something does not mean they will comprehend what it requires to maintain. (Or even understand anything about it.)
zombie rotten mcdonald: TKD was developed to deal with opponets who had a positional height differential relative to the practitioner; the difference was horses. This is why it has so many large moves, as compared to the small moves of aikido, or kenpo, or judo. Capeoira is large because it was designed in secret, and disguised as dance.
NWO: re dressing in skimpy clothes late at night: see my comment above. I’d be more than willing to send any woman of my acquaintance to Iceland to do just what you described.
Oh they do know the importance of it. It’s just that they assumed it was “my responsibility” since I built it.
Giving people things is not useful. Making them think they have earnt it is. We should facilitate not enable. Because people have a natural habit of assuming gifts and not changing their ways, facilitation of their improvement means helping with building infrastructure via skills and education rather than “building it ourselves and giving it to them”. The issue is what do they do after we go?
A lot of christian charity works by giving people things and becoming a “provider”. When the charity leaves the community just reverts back to normal. The whole “By My hands or none at all” attitude is good to inculcate because then you can have real permanent progress in societies.
Oh, developmental sustainability… I’ve heard about that!
Soooo maaaaany prooojects end up that way. Broken water taps, unused community laundries, equipment stolen from computer labs and put in administrative offices… I could go on and on.
Natural entropy? Failure of proper education? Lack of resources to make repairs? Cultural deference to corrupt authority? All of the above?
I hate the “if we only spend X amount of dollars, then Y will be eradicated/fixed/improved.” If that were true, wouldn’t someone have done it by now? To say that is to betray such staggering ignorance of poverty and economic development that it is almost not worth the time to counter it.
Acivenna’s concept of encouraging people to “own” development projects by community involvement is a very popular one, and I’ve seen it work to a certain extent. But I’ve also seen plenty of good projects fail to go forward because the community didn’t keep up its end of the deal once the grant was awarded and the materials purchased. The labor to finish the thing just didn’t materialize. Too many potatoes to harvest, the project would only benefit group W and group X was jealous and refused to participate, the materials miraculously shrank after a few weeks. This sort of thing happens ALL the TIME. And NOT just in developing countries.
Poverty, causes of is a complex, complex problem that can be studied for a lifetime and still not well understood. That is why any successful non-profit or NGO focuses on one specific need and ignores all others, no matter how worthy. And things do get incrementally better, at a glacial pace. I’ve seen that too. And it is worth working for.
NWOSlave, my question got lost in the discussion on the difference between sexual dimorphism and gender roles but I would still like to know if you are hostile to redefining gender roles with the intent of increasing the happiness of the members of that society? From what I have read from various MRAs redefining current gender roles is a major part of their agenda, but I do not want to assume that that is your position simply because other MRAs hold it.
If you need further help in understanding the difference between sexual dimorphism and gender roles before you can answer I would be happy to offer such help.
MRAL, Imagine that women have the same sort of unique individual desires, tastes, goals, ambitions, fears, anxieties, strengths, and flaws that men do. Imagine that women, like men, want to be happy, and imagine that women, like men, sometimes fail and sometimes succeed at achieving this goal. What form do you think that the behavior of the women in this thought experiment would take, and why to you think that?
What Kes said Avicenna.
Hehe. Well we have other models of sustainability such as “sensible advice”. No your tiny village cannot run a RO water plant, but you can do rainwater harvesting and solar stilling to improve your water situation.
Yeah sometimes the capital fizzles out but when it works it works well. And I don’t have to keep fixing things for them which is great because I have other things to do. Like whinge at MRAs and complain about the game.
“Yeah, I remember when I first heard about those “You Must Be This Tall To Enter” signs posted in front of voting booths, systematically denying short men of their civil rights for decades.”
Irrelevant, because that doesn’t happen today, so nice try.
You know MRAL, you could have a better life if you develop a sense of humour.
This isn’t funny, why don’t you go tell black people to just have a sense of humor about racism, or men to have a sense of humor about rampant misandry.
@Ms. Wings: Ah, yeah, it sounded dumb even to me as I was typing it, but I had to try. She was a blog friend, and now that we don’t maintain our blogs anymore, we’ve lost touch.
Moving on, it occurs to me that I appear to be dating a man shorter than me, who has a bit of a history of being a ladies man and a heartbreaker. Lots of women like him/have liked him. But then, his (lack of) height is not the only thing he has going for him. He’s smart, funny, sexy, a great conversationalist, energetic, well-read, artistic, and at least a little bit caring. Not only is he shorter than me, but he’s a tiny bit shorter than I think MRAL said he was. GOD it’s annoying when your justifications for your failures end up being proved wrong, isn’t it?
Oh yeah. @Avicenna: Don’t knock the stupid accent and excess body hair. Indian men got it goin on. (My opinion.)
Let’s be clear, being short isn’t a big deal if you’re otherwise gifted like the short boyfriends and actors that are cited here. Short men like Tom Cruise are successful because they’re facial alphas, IN SPITE of the negativity that shortness brings. I’m mutated, in addition to being short.
Tell you what, MRAL. If it comes to the point where people are being told they weren’t hired because they couldn’t reach things without a stepladder, and the song ‘Short People’ by Randy Newman is taken literally, then we’ll consider height discrimination a real issue.
I’ll make an exception for those at the highest and lowest ends of the height spectrum, like people with dwarf syndrome or people who frequently have to duck to get through doorways.
MRAL, it’s not just that you lack a sense of humor, it’s that you don’t seem to get that the joke is that you’re laughably ignorant.
When you say “irrelevant, because that doesn’t happen *today*, so nice try” [my emphasis] it sounds very much like you believe it ever happened.
Which reveals that you find the people attacking you credible, even when they’re saying ridiculously false things in jest. Tactically, a very poor move on your part.
“If it comes to the point where people are being told they weren’t hired because they couldn’t reach things without a stepladder”
Pretty sure black people aren’t being explicitly told they aren’t being hired because of their race. Subtle racial discrimination does exist, obviously, but so does height discrimination… again, how do you explain the fact that CEOs are abnormally tall? I’d love to hear that rationalization.
From Wikipedia:
“Nevertheless, studies have shown that short people are paid less than taller people, with disparities similar in magnitude to the race and gender gaps.”
The baseline standard of physical attractiveness tends to the tall and slender. So short and fat people are indeed at a disadvantage. Someone who possesses either or both of these qualities has two general choices:
A) Accept that this is their lot in life and develop other attractive qualities, as well as steeling themselves for being rejected by shallow people more often than not. Accept that just because they want to sleep with someone doesn’t mean the reverse is true and that this isn’t a character flaw or sign of some vast conspiracy or gender inferiority. Learn the basics of pleasing one’s preferred gender in bed, and develop platonic friendships with them as well.
or
B) Decide that everyone who won’t sleep with them is a shallow, worthless person; and the people who would sleep with them but they don’t find attractive are likewise worthless. Blame everyone for not finding one attractive; rather than focusing on becoming attractive oneself.
Here’s a hint, MRAL: Everyone has flaws. Sometimes it’s a funky eye, sometimes it’s falling short of the physical standard of beauty. Sometimes it’s selfishness, or shallowness. Sometimes it’s a health problem or a temper or an advanced sense of entitlement. No one is perfect, and reasonable people who get involved in dating and romances learn quickly to accept this. Sometimes people they pursue turn out to be pretty flawed. Sometimes their own flaws are a turn off to someone they’re attracted to. Adults cope with this, move on and keep trying to be better people. Your self-described eye problem might be a turn off to some people – but I can promise you, your anger and contempt is far more of a turn off than any physical characteristic.
Fat fucks can make themselves NOT FAT, if they don’t, they’re worthless and deserve nothing. Therefore, there’s no comparison.