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The Majority Report chronicles Jordan Peterson’s increasingly bananas comments about women

Jordan Peterson: U mad, bro?

By David Futrelle

I ran across this Tweet this morning from an intrepid Jordan Peterson debunker on Twitter and, well, it’s pretty much spot on:

https://twitter.com/zei_nabq/status/1083015376022224896

For evidence of this, we need look no further than some of the off-the-cuff comments about birth control and the allegedly scary consequences of women controlling their own sexuality that Peterson recently made to a small audience that included, among others, Charlie Kirk, “Bumble Jack” Posobiec, and weirdo MAGA couple Donald Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle at Turning Point USA’s annual Student Action Summit.

As Sam Seder points out in this clip from his Majority Report show, Peterson seems to be pushing the idea that what he sees as feminists’ preoccupation with sexual consent is basically a left-wing “sexual taboo” roughly equivalent to the right-wing “taboo” against gay sex. (Peterson being Peterson, he doesn’t quite come out and say this outright.)

Sam has been taking on Peterson’s nonsense for some time. Here’s another video in which Sam discusses a Peterson appearance on the Joe Rogan show in which Rogan, an oddball in his own right but still pretty sharp, gobsmacks the Canadian beef-eater by pointing out a very basic issue with his promotion of “enforced monogamy.”

While Peterson’s  utterances do seem to be getting weirder by the day, he’s been saying awful crap about the often fraught relationship between women and men for years. And for a time, during a sort of pickup artist phase, he did so dressed like a 1930s gangster.

Sam’s got a video on that, too.

And this guy is seen as a leading light in the “intellectual dark web.” It’s really a testament to how fucked up this political moment is that a cornball weirdo like Peterson is taken seriously by anyone at all, much less the adoring throngs that attend his talks and watch his videos and buy his books.

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307 replies on “The Majority Report chronicles Jordan Peterson’s increasingly bananas comments about women”

@Lainy – I am so sorry and angry that he did that to you. Thank you for telling your history.

I can’t imagine why people who view sex on a par with getting the furnace cleaned annually are having trouble finding willing partners.

So unless it is this deeply corrupt government we’re doomed? Could you maybe think of other solutions?

Sorry, not buying the false dichotomy. The burden’s on you.

Yeah, you know, there’s not that many female bricklayer, plumbers, carpenters, diggers, sewage workers, electricians. Interesting indeed.

If only there were other traditionally female occupations that involved working with the hands. Weaving. Planting. Harvesting. Factory work. Food prep. Nursing and child rearing.

Somehow these always get overlooked when men valorize “working with the hands”.

Why don’t you actually empower women, tell them tolearn to say no clearly and stand up for themselves, tell them they are not victims in need of ridiculous laws to be truly protected.

Okay. Let’s say you leave your car parked out on the street, and you come back to find some 6’4″ guy breaking into it. He’s much bigger and stronger than you, he’s drunk, he’s pissed off, and he’s desperate for cash. Do you think going over to him and firmly saying “no” would stop him? Do you think that would even be a good idea?

How will you feel when the police then grill you about why you left your car parked out on the street, and had you ever allowed other people into your vehicle before, and had you been drinking, and why didn’t you tell him no more forcefully?

How about if it turns out the 6’4″ guy is a scholarship athlete, and the community closes ranks around him while dragging your name through the mud? I mean, your car’s already wrecked, and you’re just some no-name troublemaker who was asking for it. Don’t ruin his future! He could be on the Supreme Court someday!

Maybe we just shouldn’t have laws at all, and empower everybody to stop acting like victims and forcefully tell criminals no? That would surely eliminate crime!

Yeah, you know, there’s not that many female bricklayer, plumbers, carpenters, diggers, sewage workers, electricians. Interesting indeed.

“Women are represented in lower numbers in higher-paid blue collar jobs.” I’m not sure what that has to do with anything, but okay.

An electrician makes about $25 an hour. That’s good pay. Blue collar women are more likely to be, say, maids. They do not make $25 an hour.

When women try to move into these types of jobs, men retaliate, as in the events that led to Jenson vs. Eveleth Mines.

@Lainy

I’m so, so sorry that you had to endure that. I’m sorry that you were ever made to feel that you had anything to be ashamed of for the horrific actions that a bastard chose to inflict on you.

I hope that you are in a much better situation now, and somewhere where you can heal.

Thank you everyone for your kind words.

@Catalpa Thank you. I was 16 when all of this happened. but the violence didn’t start till after 2 years of emotional abuse. I am 20 years old now. I’m enrolled in school and I’m recently engaged to a very wonderful man. I’m doing much better and thank the internet for having feminist sites like this. I also owe a huge part of it to a lot of the women and men from this blog.

I’ve been reading the comments for years now. Hearing everyone’s stories over the years helped me to feel not alone. This helped me get over shame that I was feeling. Other sites that specifically help victims of abuse and rape helped as well. I know probably everyone here is older then I am so I just want you guys to know (and David) That you helped a sixteen year old girl get through the worst time of my life.

Now then, let’s read this reply here. Written at work, so it’s not as edited as I’d like.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N_qdA1pHIEc/WuOYSfcMrOI/AAAAAAAC_xc/zAZ1ExPlR8Y1ec1pEamW2vO-8sOO4f3HwCLcBGAs/s1600/reading_fluttershy_by_tardifice-dbrs1wq.png

Mm-hmm.

I’ll be doing the important stuff first, then the trivial nonsense after.

We all know what you’re thinking, you’ve told us already. Stop being cowardly, be direct. The English language has words for women who make sex their profession, after all.

Mothers? But you go ahead call them whores.

No you fucking don’t.

You wanna bring traditional motherhood into this? Fine. There are two ways to interpret this reply.

First one is that you’re entirely fucking blind to the work mothers do. You think taking care of a child is nothing more than having sex and giving birth? When appraised as a profession, the average stay-at-home mom does work valued at $115,000 a year. (And yet they don’t actually get that, they just get dudes saying all that is “working with your vagina” apparently.) By your own blinkered hard-right libertarian everything-is-a-commodity reasoning, traditional mothers work hard.

I can imagine you replying to the above with “But I never said it wasn’t hard, I respect women’s work greatly, don’t you?”

Well, can it, shortstop. If you’re the woman-respecter you wouldn’t call that “working with your vagina.” Reducing people to their sexual organs is sorta the opposite of respect.

The other interpretation is that you think mothers are all sex workers. I don’t think that needs further exploration.

I invite you to conjure up a third description of what you mean, if you like. Very much looking to see the contortions you pull on that one.

Well, you may not like it, but very bluntly put ‘sex for resources’ is how the sexual market works. that is how it worked throughout human evolution that shaped us and our behaviour. Perhaps it is going to change but I have yet this change in behaviour to occur and see the long-term results of this change.

Citations Fucking Needed

Maybe that sort of shit assertion flies in the drains you circle, but you’re talking to an actual fucking scientist here, a scientist who’s familiar with the literature you’re claiming to speak for. So cite it. “I read it on a blog somewhere” ain’t gonna cut it – I can find evidence to support flat earth theory out on the blags if I want it. Don’t bother sending YouTube links, either – YouTube is not a place to go for finding evidence, it’s a place to reinforce whatever your current beliefs are. If you can’t do that, then your information is bullshit and you shouldn’t trust it, no matter how much you might think it’s right.

I can imagine you replying with “Jordan Peterson is a better respected scientist than you!”

Well, can it, shortstop. He ain’t respected, he’s popular. The dude’s a PhD in Psychology and he cites fucking Jung in his talks – Jung has been discredited for almost a century now. First year Undergrads know better than to cite Jung. The only people who cite Jung seriously are people trying to sell you on something. And that’s just a single illustrative point at which he’s ridiculous, there are plenty more.

As for the rest of your replies to me, they only justify a sentence or so each. Specifically:

– You misunderstand the difference between inferential reasoning (one of the formal modes of reasoning) and a strawman argument (a fallacy).

– It’s not possible to make a broad statement about society without casting a wide net, and your asserting it doesn’t make it so. Reference: the field of sociology, the theory of social complexity. Do your homework.

– Another raw assertion. Do your homework.

– I like being thorough. Sometimes I like a bit of bombast. Sue me.

– It’s true that there are not many women working in “traditionally male” professions. It’s an unbased assertion, however, that it’s because women are naturally bad at it.

– “Erudition” is the word of the week, guess you didn’t catch that. Has to do with all the JBP trolls who’ve been outraged by the thought that we might not think so highly of him and are very erudite in his defense. Tragically, the depth of their reasoning isn’t nearly that of their vocabulary.

In short:

You’re wrong and you have no idea how to defend your position beyond assertion and repetition. Go hit the lit.

@Alan Robertshaw
So women are weak victims. What a weird way of empowerment.

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
I brought up that they are doing it without ridiculous affirmative consent regulations and vast majority is not rape.

Part of rape culture is that women are made to feel like in some situations, they cannot or should not say no.

Like @Alan Robertshaw above you. Or maybe you in this very post when you insist that we live in a rape culture and it is more trouble to say no than it is worth and men are pushy?

we’re trying to remove female agency because we want to socialize men and boys

Exactly because of that. Boys and men have to change so the poor weak women are safe.

Perhaps you should listen to what feminists say about affirmative consent and rape culture rather than listening to what other men tell you we’re saying?

Yup, Camille Paglia makes a lot of sense.

Another solution would be heavily regulate male behavior. They’re the ones committing the vast majority of violence after all. So how about men have a curfew, no going out after 9 PM. Since alcohol is a big factor in make violence, they shouldn’t be allowed to drink. To protect them from online recruitment into hate groups, no unsupervised internet use. I mean, I’m not personally for this, but doesn’t it make more sense than regulating the gender that isn’t typically the perpetrator?

Do you like the way you think?

@Catalpa

So, um, are women rational independent people who can make their own decisions and don’t need regulation in the form of laws against sexual assault, or are they unruly, irrational sex-hoarders that need established social enforcement systems in order to maintain a civil society?

They are both to some degree. Just like men are.

@kupo

Perfect. Then to solve your “problem” of “sexual inequality” we’ll just shame men who have sex. Problem solved!

Great! Yes please, do shame men who have sex outside of commited monogamous relationship. And shame women for that behaviour too.

You need to understand scientists first before you can trust them, you soggy ketchup sandwich.

You just saying it’s wrong does not make it so, no matter how much you whish it to be.

@Lainy
I’m sorry for what happened to you. [victim-blaming crap removed by DF]

@TheKND

Yeah, getting affirmative consent through dirty talk and gently testing the waters and paying attention to your partner is fun.

It is fun, unless you’re one of those many people who like to be dominated sexually. Affirmative consent regulation prictically outlaw some sexual practices.

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Sorry, not buying the false dichotomy. The burden’s on you.

Alright then, next time maybe don’t make a false dichotomy if you’re not willing to ‘buy’ it.

If only there were other traditionally female occupations that involved working with the hands. Weaving. Planting. Harvesting. Factory work. Food prep. Nursing and child rearing.

Try the occupation I mentioned and try those that you mentioned. Your expirience will teach you there is a big difference.

Okay. Let’s say you leave your car parked out on the street, and you come back to find some 6’4” guy breaking into it. He’s much bigger and stronger than you, he’s drunk, he’s pissed off, and he’s desperate for cash. Do you think going over to him and firmly saying “no” would stop him? Do you think that would even be a good idea?

I wonder why you have to go to this extreme situation to explain what? How empowered women are? Are you even capable of not seeing the women as poor victims?

@LindsayIrene

An electrician makes about $25 an hour. That’s good pay. Blue collar women are more likely to be, say, maids. They do not make $25 an hour.

Maybe becouse it is not the same work requiring the same qualifications, but yeah non-existent pay gap.

@Scildfreja Unny?nes
You have asked me what I consider the greatest contribution to society by women. I answered. But go on being outraged by the things people did not say.

It’s not possible to make a broad statement about society without casting a wide net, and your asserting it doesn’t make it so. Reference: the field of sociology, the theory of social complexity. Do your homework.

Citation fucking needed. You’re just making raw assertion. But go on being outraged by the things people did not say.

I like being thorough

Really? Perhaps yes, if by thorough you actually mean self-absorbed and ideologically blinded.

You claim to like science? Well, it’s fight, flight or freeze, not merely fight. I’m all for fighting off rapists if it’s possible. It isn’t always. There is more than one valid self protection strategy. Anyone who knows basic biology knows that. Why won’t you trust scientists?

You still haven’t explained how consent education removes female agency. What it does is teach people to be responsible for their own actions. If a man chooses to do something to a woman without getting consent, it is not the fault of the woman for being drunk, or looking sexy or consenting to one type of sexuality but not another. It is you who are trying to remove men’s agency by making women responsible for their behavior. This is a good example of why viewing women as sexual gatekeepers leads to rape culture.

Also, affirmative consent in no way outlaws BDSM. Submissives still consent. Dominants still have to get consent.

@crinnanon

Really? Maybe you shouldn’t bring up things, you don’t understand (for the sake of novelty)
Kink is entirely based on trust and affirmative content. That’s what easy cuffs aftercare and safe words are for. You’re not defending doms, you’re defending assholes, infecting the community.
And to somewhat answer for Lainey: because fucks like you and the lobster God created a society where being abused feels like the standard for many women! My last girlfriend went through an abusive relationship before she was with me and she was shocked that I kept treating her well all the way through.
This is why we call it rape culture. Because women get indoctrinated into expecting and accepting that kind of treatment.

@criannon

Try the occupation I mentioned and try those that you mentioned. Your expirience will teach you there is a big difference.

And what is that big difference, exactly? As it happens, I have done both. I’ve done bricklaying, landscaping, and carpentry (worked on a construction site for a summer). I’ve also had jobs picking crops, housecleaning, and providing childcare. They’re all physically demanding. They all produce tangible results. They’re all necessary for a functioning society. What else separates them?

I wonder why you have to go to this extreme situation to explain what? How empowered women are? Are you even capable of not seeing the women as poor victims?

That’s hardly an “extreme situation”. Unless you’re someone who has a VERY personal interest in shielding men who rape from accountability Someone who doesn’t want to think too much about why rape victims are treated so differently from victims of other crimes. I’ll leave it to you to explain why you’re so deeply invested in that narrative.

@ criannon

Nothing annoys me more than the “why didn’t she just leave?” narrative.

It’s not even the implicit misogyny; it’s the ignorance. I’m not annoyed as an ‘SJW’; I’m annoyed as a pedant.

I could write hundreds of pages on why you’re just so wrong in your assumptions. But other cleverer people have already done that. There’s a gazillion sources and authorities on why your position isn’t just dismissive; it’s woefully naive.

So to start you off simply, I’ll just recommend as primers, the work of Lundy Bancroft and Gavin DeBecker.

Women should not stand up cause they might get uncomfortable, hurt, killed even?

Women often cannot stand up for themselves without risking further harm. Would you rather be raped or raped and beaten bloody? Sometimes women opt for the former. Sometimes we freeze up and physically can’t fight back because we can’t process what’s happening.

Also affirmative consent regulations will not stop rape from happening.
It is already outlawed and punished.

I’d like for you to provide reputable statistics showing how often rapes which are reported to police are investigated and punished.

Why did you stay with that asshole for 2 years? Did you not see how dangerous he was?

Do not.

@kupo

Why did you stay with that asshole for 2 years? Did you not see how dangerous he was?

Victim blaming of an actual commenter who was brave to share her story. I vote for a ban.

So, um, are women rational independent people who can make their own decisions and don’t need regulation in the form of laws against sexual assault, or are they unruly, irrational sex-hoarders that need established social enforcement systems in order to maintain a civil society?

They are both to some degree. Just like men are.

Ohhhh, so what you mean is that everyone should be subject to the exact same rules!

And the “good” rules, the rules that should be enforced, are the ones against promiscuous sex.

While the “bad” rules, the ones that aren’t needed at all, are the ones against rape.

I understand perfectly now!

Why did you stay with that asshole for 2 years? Did you not see how dangerous he was?

Fuck you, you victim-blaming piece of shit. Take a flying leap into a pit of legos.

Cool, Ive contacted David

bye criannon!! I’m sure you’ll be back as another sock puppet, but in the meantime, how bout you go fuck yourself!

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

You still haven’t explained how consent education removes female agency. What it does is teach people to be responsible for their own actions. If a man chooses to do something to a woman without getting consent, it is not the fault of the woman for being drunk, or looking sexy or consenting to one type of sexuality but not another. It is you who are trying to remove men’s agency by making women responsible for their behavior. This is a good example of why viewing women as sexual gatekeepers leads to rape culture.

[victim-blaming crap removed by DF]

Also, affirmative consent in no way outlaws BDSM. Submissives still consent. Dominants still have to get consent.

Affirmatively? Through the whole act? And the doms make sure that they get consent before each action? Yeah, no. That is not how it works.

@TheKND

Kink is entirely based on trust and affirmative content. That’s what easy cuffs aftercare and safe words are for. You’re not defending doms, you’re defending assholes, infecting the community.

Trust maybe, if you’re smart. Affirmative consent, definitely no. Unless you can give affirmative consent to something when no one asks you for it and you don’t know what you’re consenting to.

This is why we call it rape culture. Because women get indoctrinated into expecting and accepting that kind of treatment.

You’re not talking about single-mother households perchance? that would actually make some sense. But do go on, tell where this indoctrination happens? Parents? Schools that are run overwhelmingly by women? Where? Where is the evidence?

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

And what is that big difference, exactly? As it happens, I have done both. I’ve done bricklaying, landscaping, and carpentry (worked on a construction site for a summer). I’ve also had jobs picking crops, housecleaning, and providing childcare. They’re all physically demanding.

See? Of course you know the answer. ‘They are all physically demanding’ you say. You’re probably going to deny it, but they are not equally physically demanding. And that is why women chose to not to go into these jobs and that is also why they are naturally worse at them than men. It is not because men retaliate. Some rare exception exist I’m sure (of women going, and man retaliating). And also women are interested in different things/occupations/hobbies than men.

Unless you can give affirmative consent to something when no one asks you for it and you don’t know what you’re consenting to.

What the fuck makes you think that BDSM consists of acts that no one asks you for consent for and doesn’t even let you know what’s happening?

You don’t just spring “surprise” sex acts on people and call it BDSM. That’s called rape.

No wonder you’re so firmly against affirmative consent laws. I bet they’d cause you a lot of trouble, wouldn’t they?

@Alan Robertshaw

Nothing annoys me more than the “why didn’t she just leave?” narrative.

[victim-blaming crap removed by DF]

@kupo

Women often cannot stand up for themselves without risking further harm. Would you rather be raped or raped and beaten bloody? Sometimes women opt for the former. Sometimes we freeze up and physically can’t fight back because we can’t process what’s happening.

Is this any different for men you think? I don’t know the answer to your question. Honestly, in an extreme situation I’d probably freeze as well. Does not mean my wife or any other woman (or man) now has to ask me for consent whenever she feels like touching me.

I’d like for you to provide reputable statistics showing how often rapes which are reported to police are investigated and punished.

Why? What is the relevance? You and I both know that a lot rape cases are hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

@Catalpa

Ohhhh, so what you mean is that everyone should be subject to the exact same rules!

Yes, of course.

And the “good” rules, the rules that should be enforced, are the ones against promiscuous sex.

Yes. Although I’m not sure what you mean by enforced. Socially, yes. By law, I don’t know, probably not so much, I’m not a big fan of state.

While the “bad” rules, the ones that aren’t needed at all, are the ones against rape.

No. Rules against rape are good rules. Why are trying to maliciously misinterpret what I’m saying?

Rules against rape are good rules.

Unless they contain any reference to affirmative consent, according to you. The only “real” rape is when someone is dragged into the bushes by a stranger, at knifepoint, right? For all other examples, the victim should have just said no, should have just left, shouldn’t have put herself in that situation to begin with, by your reckoning. Yeah, sounds like you’re really opposed to rape.

See? Of course you know the answer. ‘They are all physically demanding’ you say. You’re probably going to deny it, but they are not equally physically demanding.

That tells me you’ve never done childcare, or housecleaning, or you’d know how exhausting they are, and how much stamina and, yes, upper body strength they require (ever tried carrying a live, squirming 50 lb. kid up to bed? it’s a lot different from lugging a 50 lb. sack of something inert). I’m actually more spent at the end of a day with my kids than I ever was working outdoors.

But no, you’ve decided that only the jobs men traditionally do are tiring and demanding, and that women gravitate towards the “easy” stuff. You don’t even have the experience to back up your assertions.

Guess what neuroscientists say is the most stressful job? Waiting tables. Same for any service industry jobs, like nursing and retail, with demanding schedules, a high physical work load, and low autonomy. Guess who disproportionately fills these jobs? Women.

Spare us the song and dance about men doing all the hard work in this world while women loaf. That’s complete bunk, and you know it.

Does not mean my wife or any other woman (or man) now has to ask me for consent whenever she feels like touching me.

Yes, and the fact that you’re asking this question as if it’s some kind of gotcha proves you don’t understand what affirmative consent is.

I’d like for you to provide reputable statistics showing how often rapes which are reported to police are investigated and punished.

Why? What is the relevance? You and I both know that a lot rape cases are hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

You’re the one who claimed rape gets punished and are using that as an argument for why we don’t need affirmative consent.

I don’t have time for a long time take down right now. But on being hard to leave abusive relationships, yes, yes they are hard to leave. In fact, the most dangerous time is when the abused person tries to leave. 3 women a day are murdered by current and former partners just in the US alone. So that’s nothing to dismiss.

Criannon is really, really telling on himself, isn’t he?

@ Catalpa

For all other examples, the victim should have just said no, should have just left, shouldn’t have put herself in that situation to begin with, by your reckoning. Yeah, sounds like you’re really opposed to rape.

And don’t forget the fact that men are heavily socialized to ignore or misintrepret the signals women give that that they’re not into it. The default is always assumed to be “yes unless explicit no”, when it SHOULD be “no unless explicit yes”. Just look at all the rationalizations men come up with to support that default yes:

She’s had sex before, that means she automatically assents to sex with any and all men in the future!

She’s started having periods, that means she’s ready for sex! (or in the gross vernacular of pedophiles “if there’s turf on the field, it’s time to play”)

She’s dressed to make herself look attractive to me, that means she wants sex!

She’s quiet, not moving or reciprocating…oh well, she didn’t actually say “no”, so plow ahead!

I suspect that accounts for a lot of the “false accusations” where men think the woman just capriciously changed her mind after the fact because she was ashamed/drunk/whatever, when in fact she wasn’t into it and the man was blinded by his own confirmation bias.

Thanks, @cornychips. This one’s intolerable.

Yes, you do need your wife’s consent to touch her. If she doesn’t want you to touch her, you’re not allowed to.

The fact that this isn’t immediately apparent to you, well. I’d say it horrifies me, but it’s just plain, normal traditional society where men claim ownership of women.

If you ever want evidence of patriarchy, there it is. In every person protesting the idea of “affirmative consent.”

Like, anyone with even the most cursory knowledge of BDSM knows that the people who practice it do a lot of discussion ahead of time. Doms are expected to respect a sub’s boundaries. Between this but of extreme ignorance and the victim blaming, I support voting this flaming clownshoe off the island.

@ buttercup

I suspect that accounts for a lot of the “false accusations”

I think another issue is that MRA types, whether through ignorance or capriciousness, conflate ‘acquittal’ with ‘false allegation’.

Of course, even as a matter of law, that is not the case.

(I know everyone here knows this; so this is for any lurkers)

Rape, like most serious crimes, has two elements; the actus reus and the mens rea.

The victim not consenting is part of the actus rea. But establishing that is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition of a conviction.

The prosecution must also prove that the defendant knew (or in some jurisdictions, was reckless as to whether or not) the victim did not consent.

And that proof has to be to the requisite standard. The onus is solely on the prosecution to convince a jury, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant knew, or was reckless, as to the lack of consent. The defendant doesn’t have to prove a goddamn thing. He doesn’t even have to raise the issue or give any evidence; the burden of proof is solely on the prosecution.

So it’s easy to see why convictions are so difficult. Hence the attempted shift to affirmative consent.

[We have that here now; but it’s hardly burdensome. There are just certain circumstances (victim is drugged, under threat, lacks capacity etc) where affirmative consent kicks in. But all that requires is for the defendant to raise the issue as a defence; it’s still entirely down to the prosecution to prove the defendant knew or was reckless as to lack of consent.]

But to put it simply; it could be agreed by everyone, prosecution and defence, that the victim hadn’t consented; that still wouldn’t be enough for a conviction.

Trust maybe, if you’re smart. Affirmative consent, definitely no. Unless you can give affirmative consent to something when no one asks you for it and you don’t know what you’re consenting to.

Affirmatively? Through the whole act? And the doms make sure that they get consent before each action? Yeah, no. That is not how it works.

Are you trying to lower our intelligence by giving us face-palm related concussions?
God, you have never had contact with kink, haven’t you? YES! GOOD DOMS GET CONSENT THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING! If they go too far, they get the safe word, or the sub rips off the cuff and if the act doesn’t stop instantly, THEY ARE RAPISTS. Kinky couples TALK about what they are going to do, so they know what the other is fine with and what not. Heck, every dominatrix has a price list for every service, so there is no “surprise”.
Old saying in the kink community: “Maybe you’re not a dom, maybe you’re just a scumbag.”
Seems to be made for you.

You’re not talking about single-mother households perchance? that would actually make some sense. But do go on, tell where this indoctrination happens? Parents? Schools that are run overwhelmingly by women? Where? Where is the evidence?

Schoolboards are overwhelmingly staffed by men. Where I live, teachers are ~60% female while headmasters are ~80% male. So, your “THE EVUUUUL GOVERNMAMENT!” narrative is based on your paranoia, not reality. But to take you seriously for a heartbeat, it happens everytime a parent says “That boy pulled your hair because eh likes you.” or “Sometimes boys just play rough” after you get punched by a “friend” or everytime a young guy goes through hazing because it “builds character”.
All shit that creates a mindset that forever links violence with affection. That normalizes a setting where it’s normal that you get hurt by those who claim to love you and that your bodily autonomy is not in your hands but at the whim of whoever is slightly stronger than you. THAT’S WHY SO MANY WOMEN DON’T LEAVE AFTER THE FIRST TIME BEING SLAPPED! BECAUSE THEY WERE MADE TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS NO WORLD WITHOUT SLAPS FOR THEM, SO WHY EVEN BOTHER?

Does not mean my wife or any other woman (or man) now has to ask me for consent whenever she feels like touching me

OH! Now I get it! You haven’t actually left your spawning pool yet. Just because you happen to be so grotesque, nobody in their right mind would want to touch you, doesn’t mean they don’t have to ask if you’re fine with them touching you.

See? Of course you know the answer. ‘They are all physically demanding’ you say. You’re probably going to deny it, but they are not equally physically demanding. And that is why women chose to not to go into these jobs and that is also why they are naturally worse at them than men. It is not because men retaliate. Some rare exception exist I’m sure (of women going, and man retaliating). And also women are interested in different things/occupations/hobbies than men.

Yeah, try being a waitress for a day. Or working in a laundry. i did both. You’ll have craps from lifting tankards and god, ironing shirts for hours is both taxing and you’re constantly burning yourself.
Oh, and someone I know was a floorer. Good pay, but you know how often she got to hear some “on all fours” shit? That’s why women get jobs outside the well-paying blue collar ones. Not because they are “worse at them”.

And now I’m done because this level of toxic stupidity is giving me an aneurysm.

These trolls are so intentionally fucking obtuse. Like, nobody would try that shit in meat space. Imagine a woman describing her assualt to a group of people and cripes-hes-annoying leans forwards and says to her face, “why did you stay?” I’m pretty sure youd get punched in the face pretty fucking fast.

Once again rottencinnabon, how bout you go fuck yourself.

@peeps

Also, I haven’t received a confirmation from David about cries-a-lot ban.
My email may have been put in the spam filter (or hes likely busy). It would be swell if somebody else sent him a note. Thanks!

ever tried carrying a live, squirming 50 lb. kid up to bed?

I haven’t, but I once saw a Finnish dad propose semi-seriously that young children’s outdoor clothing (esp. the thermal overalls commonly used here in winter) should have a sturdy carrying handle sewn in the back.

Who here believes that criannon does none of these physically demanding jobs being discussed here? [raises hand]

Women still face substantial barriers to entering the construction field and widespread harassment on job sites…

Chaudhry said that “harassment and hostility on the job” are pervasive. Almost nine in ten female construction workers experienced sexual harassment on the job, according to a U.S. Department of Labor report cited in the law center’s study, compared to around one in three for all women.

“They’ll harass and belittle you to try to make you quit. But we must stick with it, or else things won’t ever get better for women on the job,” Battle says in the law center’s report. “I have worked in cement masonry for more than 30 years, and we are still dealing with the problems we had back then.”

Source

Like, maybe educate yourself before dropping opinion turds.

Out troll goes on and on about women’s agency, but doesn’t seem to understand that affirmative consent is much more empowering than assuming a woman’s body is automatically up for grabs until she clearly says no. After which she (all too often) has to offer multiple follow-on justifications until the man is satisfied she really means it, because “no” isn’t a sufficient answer for its own sake.

It’s the same reason opt-out consumer contracts are widely considered shady, if not outright illegal.

You’re not talking about single-mother households perchance?

Ok, so to the list of topics you have absolutely zero experience with (kink, consent, abusive relationships, parenting, and manual labor) we can now add single mothers. You’re out of your depth here, kid. Go home.

LindsayIrene,

*raises hand*

In my experience, the men who think that child care isn’t hard or think that employed women don’t work hard are from privileged backgrounds. Upper class women are sometimes stay at home moms who have help and don’t need to work all that hard. Working class women work hard and the men and boys around them know it. That’s not to say that working class men aren’t ever misogynists. It’s just this particular brand of misogyny that’s usually held by men who grew up around affluence. Criannon’s libertarian views only support this theory.

You can always tell when an MRA type doesn’t have any experience with the working classes when their idea of oppressed working class men are coal miners. It’s always the only working class job they can think of. Or maybe it’s just that it’s the whitest. No concern for men working in say, fast food, who are often black or Latino.

He also mentioned ditch diggers, as if that job is still being done by hand. It really is easy to spot the middle-class blowhard.

As a member of the working class, I can tell you that you’re very likely to find women in working class labor positions. There are large amounts of women in the warehouse I work in, and I’d even say there are more women than men there. Most of them physical laborers. But I guess since they aren’t coal miners or ditch diggers or 18th century railroad workers, it doesn’t count.

criannon is BANNED, for obvious reasons.

Thanks, cornychips, for letting me know, and sorry about the delay.

Oh, I also went back and removed the more egregious victim-blaming stuff from his comments. If I missed any let me know.

You’re not talking about single-mother households perchance? that would actually make some sense. But do go on, tell where this indoctrination happens? Parents? Schools that are run overwhelmingly by women? Where? Where is the evidence?

it happens everytime a parent says “That boy pulled your hair because eh likes you.” or “Sometimes boys just play rough” after you get punched by a “friend” or everytime a young guy goes through hazing because it “builds character”.

All shit that creates a mindset that forever links violence with affection. That normalizes a setting where it’s normal that you get hurt by those who claim to love you and that your bodily autonomy is not in your hands but at the whim of whoever is slightly stronger than you.

Boys will be boys.

Boys will be boys, will be boys, will be boys.

will be boys will be boys will be boys will be boys

https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/gillette-metoo-backlash.jpg

@cornychips:

Imagine a woman describing her assualt to a group of people and cripes-hes-annoying leans forwards and says to her face, “why did you stay?” I’m pretty sure youd get punched in the face pretty fucking fast.

When I was asked that question, I cried in shame. People just don’t get it. They’re the same people who tell depressed folks to cheer up and think positive. Gee, why didn’t I think of that? They think they know what they’d have done in any situation. They’d have screamed, or had a gun, or kicked the bad guy in the nuts and run away. People who Monday-morning-quarterback other people’s trauma are just horrible.

@asabove

You are right! They only answer they want to hear from a survivor is “i guess it was my fault.”

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Apparently the comerical was too subtle and I had to spell it out. I was prepared to whoop out the sockpuppets and the blackboard, just in case.

I know he got banned but I have a few things I would like to say if that’s alright with everyone.

1. I did leave him because I couldn’t take his controlling behavior and abuse any longer. But that doesn’t mean I was free of him. I went to school with him (a very small school) and was under his thumb because of the abuse. Just because I wasn’t his girlfriend any more doesn’t mean he didn’t still have power over me. I had no confidence, no friends, and undiagnosed PTSD. His sexual abuse started small with pushing my boundaries, but as a teenager vaginal sex was important to me and it was the one thing I wasn’t going to “give up” unless it was someone I loved and when I was ready. I mentioned before I wasn’t ready and he wouldn’t stop pushing so I ended the relationship.
(trigger warning more about my rape)
Then when it became clear to him he couldn’t manipulate me to go back to him, he took what he wanted for himself. He did this one day when I was alone at the school track running laps. It happened it the public restrooms there when I had went in to go to the bathroom before I left. He was far stronger then I was so it didn’t take much to hold me down. After the year of being with him as a couple the emotional abuse he put me through had me feeling like my virginity was the only value I had a person anymore. With that gone I was deeply ashamed and felt so lost.

2. Because the ass hat didn’t get it and would be surprised if he knew. (this might be tmi, Warning because talking about BDSM relationship) I am part of the BDSM community and so is my fiancé. he gets affirmative consent through dirty talk and we have a lot of fun. He is a dominate, I’m more of a submissive and yet he still manages to get affirmative consent.
He doesn’t go near any of my triggers like chocking, hair pulling, face slapping, any of that. After being together for 2 years we know what each other likes and what we don’t. part of the fun is telling me what he’s going to do and in turn I can say no to that. Again you have to be very uncreative to not be able to do this even in a more gentle, tender sexual relationship. saying things like “you want me to f*ck your tight little pussy with my big dick?”. Which normally gets to replies “yes please sir, slowly so I can feel ever inch” or “yes f*cking stretch me out on and take me like I’m a naughty girl” (we have a bit of a size kink. He’s much bigger then me and I’m much smaller then him). replies like that mean I’m either not aroused just yet for our normal pace so go slow or you’ll hurt me, and the other says I am and I want to be taken right there. Both tell exactly what I want in a sexy manner

3. Yes he will continue to have to ask for things like this even after we’re married. Just because we’re married doesn’t mean he owns my body like I don’t own his. And yes I do ask him for and okay before I touch him. being asked can I have a hug or can I have a kiss is a quite common thing in our relationship.

4. Thank you everyone who stood up for me and for @cornychips who emailed David. Trolls are the reason I haven’t posted in the like 4 years that I’ve been reading this blog. But it’s full of really amazing people that I wanted to be apart of. Hopefully I didn’t trigger or make anyone uncomfortable with this and if I did I’m really sorry. Since a lot of the trolls stuff was directed at me I felt the need to reply.

@Lainy
Thank you for sharing. I’m glad you found someone who gives you the respect you deserve.

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