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MGTOWs celebrate Labor Day by hating women extra hard

Even on their days off, MGTOWs can’t help but obsess over the women they have allegedly walked away from

By David Futrelle

You might think that Labor Day would be the MGTOWs’ time to shine. What better day for American MGTOWs, at least, to indulge themselves in the glorious freedom they have allegedly won for themselves by “going their own way” and walking away from women.

Surely the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit will be filled today with men talking excitedly about the happy hours they spent today fishing by themselves, or riding their motorcycles, or even playing video games. Surely the subreddit will be filled with pictures of the delicious steaks they’ve cooked for themselves on their $3000 grills.

Not so much. Taking a look at the MGTOW subreddit today, I found one guy who had posted some lovely photos from his outdoors excursions roaming the badlands and kayaking in some unidentified but very pretty lake.

But the rest of Reddit’s MGTOW crew spent today doing what they do every day, complaining bitterly about women.  Here are a few of the things that have been occupying their busy little minds this Labor Day.

Women having sex

A dude called Zombocom1911 laments what he sees as an unfair double standard that he apparently thinks is an actual real thing in the world:

its somehow a normal accepted notion of society that a female should have far more sexual experience than a male before marriage. everyone is a cuckold in modern society, 

Women dyeing their hair

According to someone calling himself NoThirst (yeah, I’m not buying it either). women are fickle creatures when it comes to hair color:

…if they have black hair, then want blond…if they have blond hair, they want black, if they are ugly they want blue. They have no idea what the hell they want, other than your resources.

Women using high-waisted leggings to hide their “muffin tops”

A man with the not-altogether-convincing username strongandhappy sniffs:

Why improve yourself when your clothes can do it for you? Once Chad has an erection he won’t carehow fat you are.

Child support

As slacktivist0 sees it,

It’s only called child support for marketing. It’s mom support plain and simple. Thousands of single women pay to inseminate themselves each year. Women have “baby fever”. Paying women to keep kids both her and her ex wanted is like paying men to have sex with attractive women.

Women who don’t properly appreciate getting pointers on their handjob technique

Apparently this is a big problem in the life of guy called Pk_s_to_the_yizzle.

The problem for me isn’t that they suck at it.

But that they ARE DEATHLY RESISTANT to ANY AND ALL change or instruction IN ORDER TO GET BETTER AT IT.

They all believe “I know how to get guys off” , and “WHATEVER I DO should just work”


Like if they give pleasure to a man THE WAY HE WANTS IT, and they are willing to do something OUTSIDE OF THEIR HABIT-PATTERN for more than 5 seconds, they have to pay a $1,000,000 fine to the female collective.

Show a girl your “sweet spot” (the one you use to get yourself OFF in 2 mins)

She’ll Try it, half-assedly for three strokes, then over the next 6 strokes she’ll SLOWLY gravitate back to the shit she was doing.

By stroke 10 its like you didn’t say anything all. ANND its RIGHT BACK to the shit that’s got you considering WALKING OUT on a HANDJOB.

And so, not trying to talk yourself OUT of a HJ. You hide your Bored and Annoyed Face deep inside 

A man wearing a novelty shirt reading “I do whatever the voices in my wife’s head tell me to do”

lnot offers up this little rant:

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. There are way more men who have just excepted it [sic] as the way life is than there are MGTOW, or men who know anything about the true nature of woman. They just happily plod along working their lives away, completely oblivious. Just like in the matrix, they have taken the blue pill and are happy with it. … Even though we see how totally fucked their lives are, they don’t, and probably don’t want to. Especially if they are older, who the fuck would want to find out that late in life that you threw your life away? They probably know deep down inside, but there is no point in us rubbing it in.

… and then there’s THIS dude

In a thread devoted to complaining about women who are insufficiently thrilled when men try to chat them up in public, one young dude calling himself JKMonk97 works himself into an apocalyptic rage:

I’m barely 20, but I’ve dealt with shit like this ever since Middle school. Its only going to get worse and people who do shit like this are completely obviously to the damage they are inflicting on others with their toxicity. Its really unsurprising why I became aligned with the MGTOW ideology and why it has seen exponential growth in just a small time frame.

Society has gone to shit, people are cancer, and the system we live in feeds off negativity and evil. I honestly believe this is the end, not just for this generation, but the entire human collective. …

If we do have a collapse it wont be just a simple reset and then after civilization and ethics begins to propagate freely. No, its either us MGTOW and Men who are aware of the Red-Pill support each other and create a enclave built strongly with our ideals, so that we can finally be liberated and experience the greater reality or we simply go extinct.

The Elites that influence this world have seen their grasp over it slowly diminish over time due to unknown variables and events. History has shown that trying to rule the world always ends in failure and misery. Greed and ignorance has proven to be Humanity’s worse enemy and it is this enemy that will consume the Elites in the end.

We Men built this world and we can also destroy. That’s why nature endowed us with more strength and intelligence compared to women because each and every one of us is a leader/creator with great potential.

I really believe the MGTOW ideology will reach a great mass of men, that they will collectively dissolve themselves from any attachments to the feral women we see today and the gynocentric slave apparatus we live in.

Apparently the logic here is:

  • Step 1: Woman says “I have a boyfriend” when approached by a strange man
  • Step 2: The literal collapse of civilization
  • Step 3: …
  • Step 4: PROFIT!

Flawless logic.

Happy Labor Day!

95 replies on “MGTOWs celebrate Labor Day by hating women extra hard”


If you need to print out stupid government forms, libraries generally offer pretty affordable printing services. Alternatively, staples and kinkos and the like also let you print things by the page. Usually it’s like 10 cents a page or something (more for colour). You don’t gotta buy a printer.

Yes, I know it would be so much easier if you could just do it all online, but that’s not an available option yet and we all have to bow to bureaucracy from time to time, unfortunately.

@Virgin Mary

It’s got a note on it that says it’s “satire” for his English class.

That said, If this gets around the school, I bet he has to go to Prom with his cousin.

Damn, no edit window. Anyway, it provides a template for the best reaction to a dick photo one can imagine.

Wow wow woah wait !

Show a girl your “sweet spot” (the one you use to get yourself OFF in 2 mins)

Is that actually a thing for people with a penis, or just another one of those weird miggy superpowers like Seagull Hunting ?

Everybody’s been talking about Gaiman, but Busiek… well, Busiek’s a long-time regular over at File770 as well, which is one of the places where the whole Sad Puppies mess really got reported on, as well as some of the follow-ons like ComicsGate. Busiek almost certainly falls into the category of ‘has forgotten more comics history than you wannabe gatekeepers will ever know’.

I am very much not convinced Handy Bloke has had a woman close enough to his dick to be critiquing her technique. More likely this is something he thought up while hate wanking to a conversation he overheard between a couple of women who were blissfully unaware of his presence

@Sinkable John:

Is that actually a thing for people with a penis, or just another one of those weird miggy superpowers like Seagull Hunting ?

I’d mention the prostate, but I’m pretty sure this guy would reject that option as gay.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes wrote:

They care so much about hair colour because it’s one of the only distinguishing features about a woman that they’re aware of.

To them, a woman changing her hair colour is practically changing her identity – her appearance is the only thing they value. Women who aren’t white, slim, and conventionally attractive don’t even register to them. Hair colour/style is one of the few distinguishing features on an endless parade of almost-identical, white women’s bodies.

This hit right in my gut, Scildfreja. When I first moved to San Francisco in 1987 (with my gf), our jobs were both outside SF. My gf (at that time, now my dear friend) changed her hair color and was beat up for doing so at the North Berkeley BART station. My BART stop was on the other side of the bay (San Leandro) and when I changed from blue to red I was also attacked. It was really weird for both of us. Why do these random men care so much about “our” hair?

I mean…I don’t have a peen but if I’m in the right mood can get it done that fast. But that’s not really about enjoyment, more about getting my brain to shut up already. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t see why I should be needing to physically deal with legacy paperwork and snail-mail in a day and age when I can e-file my taxes; that being said, I think this problem might be dealt with now. I was going into town today for other reasons, so I swung by a Service Ontario that was close to one of my stops to see if I could do something about it there in person. They said no — but they had an office building full of printers and volunteered their use. I left with a printed version of the application that could just be filled in and mailed, and there was also a post office nearby. Long story short, it’s in the mail … and the whole thing cost me over five bucks, when by any rights it ought to be free. The postage alone was a buck eighty and the business envelopes were tens of cents each and came in packs of six and more.

Ridiculous. If they’re going to insist on physical paperwork then they should damned well mail me the renewal forms and include a postage-prepaid return envelope for me to stuff everything into when it’s done. If they’re going to have a web site for doing it then it should be possible to do all of it on the web site. This is after all supposed to be assistance for low income citizens. A lot of the eligible population won’t have cars, won’t have printers, and will be budget-strapped enough to begrudge even five bucks, and a fair proportion will be living 20 miles or more from the nearest significant town. There’s a lot of empty space in Ontario, especially north of the nickel belt. For some people in northern Ontario dealing with this would have entailed a hundred-dollar-plus Greyhound ride into Timmins or Thunder Bay if it couldn’t be done either entirely on an iPhone or else entirely by receiving a package in the snail mail, fiddling with it and a pen for ten minutes, and then sticking an envelope in a box at the entrance to their driveway and putting up a little metal flag.

This half-assed part-21st-century part-Victorian-era procedure of theirs is discernibly worse than either a purely modern or a purely 19th century approach.

And if you’re all thoroughly sick of this topic by now, despite its touching on issues of class, big-city, etc. privilege, with any luck it won’t be lurching to life again zombie-like for at least another 365 days or so.

I agree, kupo. I’d go one further. If my brain is in the right space, no touch is even needed. I dislike anyone touching me; this doesn’t stop me from having awesome orgasms.

Boy, these men sure get a lot of handjobs from women while going there own way…

I know it’s mostly just their objectification of women and fixation on sex that makes them believe nudity is a woman’s only “true” and valid appearance. But I have this idea that part of the reason MRAs despise clothes so much because they’re feverishly in denial that clothes are pretty, to suppress that tiny bit of femininity in themselves.

This may have been brought up before, but I wonder how they feel about suits being designed to “fool” women into thinking a man is conventionally attractive. Will they admit that a man putting on a suit jacket is just “pretending” to have broad shoulders?

Hair colour/style is one of the few distinguishing features on an endless parade of almost-identical, white women’s bodies.

Yes, and enforcing hair style/color conformity is definitely a part of maintaining white supremacy. Straight, neat, long blonde hair is the beauty standard because of its association with the perfect healthy Nordic or Germanic ideal.

Black women are pressured not to wear their hair in a more natural kinky or afro style. It’s deemed unprofessional in the workplace. It seems like every week I see a story in my Twitter timeline about a black child sent home from school for wearing braids or cornrows or afropuffs.

Even white women and girls can be swept up in it. When Michelle Wolf was getting scolded across conservative and mainstream media for her WH correspondents dinner roast, a lot of people were asking if she was black or biracial because her hair is so curly. My hair is wavy, not kinky and is prone to tangles. When I was a kid some other kids teased me by calling it “nappy.” It wasn’t until a few years later that I even realized that was a derogatory way to describe black hair. I thought it was a synonym for messy.

If a white woman’s hair isn’t straight and neat enough, she is suspect. She might be part Jewish or black. Gasp!

I’m starting to ramble now, but tl;dr, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that manospherians and Nazis are similarly obsessed with policing women’s hair and both fetishize long straight blonde hair.

Dear Surplus,

I have been reading Dave Futrelle’s ManBoobz We Hunted The Mammoth for many years. I have seen your complaints on many different posts and I think you have a case of “women should be caring about your shit” which has been brought up before. I don’t know why you keep doing it.

Okay, let’s talk about my complaints. I am a lesbian who moved to Russia to be with my gf. I have to, every year, have a (not private!) gynecological exam, a fluoroscopy (I had to undress and smash my tits against an ancient screen in a huge room with about 20 other people), pee in a cup with 20 other people (communism lives!) and have my guts poked at. I have to wait in lines for eight or nine hours and then be sent home (and cancel all my lessons for one day and then cancel all my lessons for the next). My lessons are how I make my money.

I had to know absolutely everything about Russian history (my obsession, so no problem) and Russian government and Russian grammar (the hardest part!) to even get my Russian residency to be with the love of my life. I have to do this every year!

My point is Everyone’s life is HARD! When you’re not a millionaire, it’s all fucking hard. So suck it up, put your big boy pants on and do it.

I see great advice to you all over this forum and great patience. Heed it.

@WWTH, Re: leggings

It’s because “fat”, according to society, includes having even 2mm of tiny bulge around your waist when wearing jeans 5 sizes too small. It’s why Lady Gaga (I think, perhaps someone else?) got shamed for a friggin insignificant amount of tummy bulge while wearing super tight pants during a concert, it’s why there are thousand-upvoted threads of bodybuilders with visible 6-packs who feel insecure because they have teeny tiny stomach rolls when they sit or bend over in half and actually think that’s unhealthy.

Which is one of the reasons body positivity is good for athletic people too.

If my brain is in the right space, no touch is even needed.


This may have been brought up before, but I wonder how they feel about suits being designed to “fool” women into thinking a man is conventionally attractive. Will they admit that a man putting on a suit jacket is just “pretending” to have broad shoulders?

Or, as has been pointed out on this blog many times before, high heels were originally designed for and worn by men. Then there’s cowboy boots. Don’t even get me started on codpieces. Clearly men are deceptive and vain creatures!

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess


I’m curious what that means.

All orgasms are in your brain. Turned on, orgasm. Turned off, nope. No touch needed, really.

That means, ‘omg I wish I could orgasm without touch, it sounds like an amazing ability!’

Clearly men are deceptive and vain creatures!

In the sixteenth century, men’s hose and tunics were packed with a material to give them the appearance of more shapely calfs and bigger chests.

That material was called ‘Bombast’; hence bombastic now meaning to exaggerate or be over the top.

Well into the nineteenth century, padded chests were commonplace in men’s coats. And nipped waists and full skirts, for maximum shapeliness.


I recommend sending your grievances to your MPP and any other official who may be even peripherally related to the issue you are having. That will give better odds of anything about the upsetting situation changing than yelling at random commenters on a feminism blog will.

Yes, admittedly, the comment section down here is a place where people often rant about the issues they are facing. And that is a good thing, we have a supportive community. However, most ranters here do not demand that other commenters provide free labour without offering any kind of thanks and while writing long screeds about how this problem needs to be solved IMMEDIATELY and heavily implying that everyone should be dropping everything to attend to it even when there is nothing we can realistically do.

If you’re interested in learning how to communicate your frustrations here without this kind of reaction I will give you some tips. But I’m not going to do that if you aren’t interested in learning. Let me know if you are.

@ Surplus,

I was just about to say – could you call or go to the electric company?
I’m glad it worked out.

And for the situations you outlined, you are correct, sim things have happened to me with legal and financial paperwork, which got effed up (them, not me) and then they wanted faxes, print out a (your fave!) pdf attachment, it was a nightmare from hell. Agreed on the pdf files. I had to download a free Acrobat program, it still didn’t work, I couldn’t open it right nor see it all, I was able to get the thing to print, anyway.

Then I had to find a fax machine. Luckily someone I know offered the use of theirs at their office. And the next step in that was – do I have enough gas in my wonky car to get there? And it was in the middle of winter, after my car had crapped out once and I had to walk home. Only about 3 miles, still, it was winter, and windy, and I had the flu.
Which of course got worse after that.

I have most of my paperwork sorted and hope to upgrade my home office. I need to, with plans to work for myself. You can be sure I will be doing this as economically as possible. I do have a printer, I got that last year. Refurbished. It was $40.

I’m as cheap as they come. I am not rolling in money and have to be. It’s common sense too – if the thing is going to go obsolete, or break, why spend more? My $40 refurbished printer works just fine too.

ETA, thoughts from the above comments, everyone does get frustrated too, and it can be hard to communicate. I think you can be sure people do understand.

These guys act like they are modern Henry David Thoreaus living off the land, but a majority of them live out imaginary, hyperbolic versions of their lives on the internet while sticking it to the (wo)man. It sounds like they don’t have many real world skills despite claiming that women are the parasitic, dependent ones. It’s like that one Nazi propaganda guy said, “accuse the other side of that which you are guilty”.

So I suppose they’d be upset about my wearing corsets because I like them? And my hair is blonde now, but it’s been dark brown, black, many shades of red, medium brown….etc…It’s naturally blonde so after growing it so the old dyed part no longer has to be dealt with, I’m okay with the color and a few highlights during the summer to pretend like I spent some time outside and it was long enough to get those highlights naturally from the sun. In reality it’s humid and hot from the end of April to the middle of October (at least) out here, I don’t like being outside and sweating in humid temperatures over 90 degrees (with the heat index it feels more like 105 degrees out and that sucks even more)! So I go to the salon for some highlights and try to stay inside where there’s air conditioning. My hair curls like crazy so there’s no point in blow-drying it and then straightening it, knowing full well that the minute I go outside for 2 minutes it’s going to do what it wants which, in my hair’s case, is being curly.

We can’t wear makeup or go without makeup, we must dress a certain way or face ridicule and shaming, our hair must be perfect and styled in the approved way (plus it has to be one of the accepted color choices), and we can’t wear leggings or yoga pants or anything not given the stamp of approval from the random men of the world. Okay. That sounds like loads of fun, MGTOWs. You know what sounds like even MORE fun? You all going your own way while the rest of us live our lives wearing whatever and looking however we wish, sleeping with (or not sleeping with) individuals of our choosing who want to sleep with us and aren’t going to get all mad over HJ techniques (I wonder how many of those angry HJ guys spend any time learning what women like in bed…hahahaha I know, silly question, they don’t think about women and what we might want in bed whatsoever! We’re just an orifice! Buy yourselves some fleshlights and quit bothering women!)…At least when MGTOWs do their internet complaining about women they identify themselves as wholly unsuitable for relationships with anyone else on a romantic level and probably as friends too. It would get mighty irritating if you were hanging out with someone and they kept bitching about women and how we’re totally screwing up everything with our woman-ing in ways they don’t like, no matter how many times you try to change the subject or yell at them that monopoly requires them to actually PLAY when it’s their turn. Scrabble isn’t as fun when they only want to come up with words that relate to hating women, either.

@ Bina

For essentially nothing, unless you count the fact that they’re women.

I think you cracked the code!

@ Krasnaya Kochka (red cat: about the only Russian phrase I can identify)

Re: no touch orgasms – amazing.

I have experienced that just twice, both in the process of giving a lover an orgasm. Not sure what I was doing specially right then, as opposed to all the other times…

@Jenora Feuer

True, I’ll admit I know far more about Gaiman than Busiek, as I’m not a huge comics reader, and I got to Gaiman’s comics via his novels and short stories. I knew a bit about Busiek, but I wasn’t aware of the details you mentioned, so thanks.

I noticed that some commenters in those threads have tried to turn things around by saying “Oh, so Gaiman and Busiek are immune from criticism, are they?” Fascinating.

@Moggie, you found 1602 disappointing? I’ve only read a bit so far, and it’s … odd, but not sure if it’s good odd, or bad odd yet.

I do think Neil and Amanda suit each other very, very well 🙂

Well, they’re rather different people, but they both do what they’re doing well, and both know the history they’re working with.

Gaiman’s more a fairy tale style person, poetic and airy over some deep and disturbing darkness.

Busiek’s more an old school fan’s fan (he was writing to comics letter columns back in the 1970s), with a bit of a ‘reality ensues’ angle. One of his more famous works was Marvels, which was basically the Marvel universe as seen by an everyman reporter. He likes the perspective angle of what being in a superheroic universe would actually be like for the people who live there. According to Wikipedia he’s also, unsurprisingly, good friends with Scott McCloud of Understanding Comics. (I say unsurprisingly because there’s a certain feel of seeing the support structure in works from both, unlike the usual sort of unsupported timeless feel of a lot of other superhero comics. There’s a certain talent in letting you know there’s a larger universe out there and you’re only looking at a piece of it.)

With regards to “Oh, so Gaiman and Busiek are immune from criticism, are they?”… gah. As I said before, Busiek (and Gaiman as well) have been around, and have probably forgotten more about comics history than these idiots will ever know. They are the history. You’re talking about the person who originally suggested how Jean Grey could have survived the Dark Phoenix Saga.

It’s like the Dunning-Kruger of ‘fake geek’ gatekeeping. They don’t know enough about the history to realize they’re talking about people who know far more of the history than they do.

@Krasnaya Koshka, <3. I'm sorry it was as sharp a comment as it was for you. You certainly don't deserve it, my duck! May the harassers and abusers rot in misery.


I’m glad you were able to get your utility assistance thing sorted! Bureaucracy is pretty terrible. Assistance programs are always under-funded and have to make do, so I’m sure they can’t really afford to maintain the completely-online application services that the CRA is able to. That requires a lot more security and server time than a form completion site. Blame the fact that public services never get the funding they need to do their jobs properly.

You’ve been making a lot of aggressive replies to the suggestions that you received, though, and that sort of worries me. I’m not going to critique you for being angry about things, you’re allowed to be angry at whatever you want, and bureaucracy blocking your way to a service you need is absolutely worth being annoyed at.

That’s not the problem. The problem is how you anger is (unintentionally!) directed at people who offer suggestions that you asked for. If those suggestions don’t work for you, that’s fine. You’re the only judge of what works for you. But you’re among friends, and your friends don’t deserve anger when they respond to a request for help.

I mean, was there an answer that anyone could have given that would have worked? None of us can make a magical “reapply” button appear on their website, no one can make the call centre vacate all its calls for you to get through more easily. I don’t know how anyone could do more than offer incidental suggestions and sympathy, and your responses to those have been pretty intense.

Again – that doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to be annoyed by it. You absolutely are allowed to be, with valid reason. It’s frustrating as heck. We’ve all been through that sort of thing. But it does mean that you’ve become sensitive to the frustrations of daily living, and that frustration is spilling out as aggression towards people you don’t intend to be angry at.

I think you should try to find the source of your sensitivity to this sort of daily friction. It’s a tall order – it’s taken me years to manage over here, and it’s still a work in progress. Learn to understand when your anger is leaking into your interactions with other people, and find better ways to express it. The anger’s valid, but the channel it’s taking isn’t.

I’m sorry if this is a hurtful thing to hear – I absolutely don’t want to cause any hurt or trauma, you don’t deserve it. I’m just trying to help in my clumsy way, and it’s a tough subject to broach.


@Moggie, you found 1602 disappointing? I’ve only read a bit so far, and it’s … odd, but not sure if it’s good odd, or bad odd yet.

Oh, my opinion on this isn’t worth much, to be honest. I’m not entirely sure why I read it, because I normally need to be coaxed into enjoying superhero stuff. I was kind of wanting to be won over, and Gaiman seemed a likely writer to do that, you know? But, once you get beyond the cleverness of the conceit – “what if Marvel, but old-timey?” – it seemed kind of… flat? I never developed any emotional investment in the characters, and the experience was rather like listening to someone tell an elaborate in-joke from which I’m excluded. Your mileage may very much vary if you care more about the Marvel universe.


It’s like that one Nazi propaganda guy said, “accuse the other side of that which you are guilty”.

Ding ding ding! An awful lot of -ist and -phobic rhetoric is a clear case of, “I know who you are, but what am I?”

Those immigrants (from the vantage point of white Christian Americans) want to take our stuff, help themselves to our women, and impose their language, religion, customs, and laws upon us?

Those trans women are male voyeurs and rapists lurking under a false flag?

Those cis women think of nothing but immediate sexual gratification with the most conventionally attractive (as measured by inhumanly precise mathematical formulae) possible member of the opposite sex?

The irony of Pk_s_to_the_yizzle and others like him… Sounds exactly like how the sex has probably gone for the few women foolish enough to, for whatever reason, ever attempt to sleep with any of these guys and just ended up faking it.

JKMonk97 — Right, kiddo, and what have you built?

Regarding the sensitivity of the penis? I assumed the poster was referring to the frenulum-reportedly very sensitive for both intact and circumcised men. Sometimes referred to as the male clitoris.

I’ve seen irl and illustrations of men doing a little fillip over this section when masturbating. I’ve never been able to master the move.

Why are we supposed to be sad that these guys are going their own way, and when are they going to finally actually leave?

FFS, I’ll bake them a cake if they just GO.

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