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Why do women work when they could just be living off some dude, confused MGTOW wonders

Well that's no way to find a husband!
Well that’s no way to find a husband!

Over in the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, one recent convert to the MGTOW philosophy admits that there is one thing about the females that’s really baffling.

Namely, why do any of them work, when they could just use their magic hoo-has to snag some poor dude and live off of him, lying on the couch watching Jerry Springer amidst a pile of bon-bon wrappers?

[H]ow does MGTOW explain working women? Why do women work low or pseudo status positions for employers that are primarily public facing? I feel like the women who work at Waffle House / Starbucks / whatever probably have a more consistently stressful time of things than I do working a STEM job, they’re paid less, and they’re burning SMV time working a plebian job.

Why do women work low and pseudo status positions like these? How does MGTOW explain women who opt in to these arrangements when they could likely bf/marry/B.D.Govt their way to a less stressful life? 

In case you’re not intimately familiar with misogyny-speak, SMV stands for “Sexual Market Value,” which, these dudes believe, starts declining for women after they hit the ripe old age of 25 or so and start getting all old and ugly. And “B.D.Govt” means “Big Daddy Government,” always ready to help a girl out with some of that sweet, sweet welfare cash.

Happily, the subreddit’s regulars are more than willing to mansplain the puzzling fact of women having jobs.

A fellow called NormanDaNubcaek has a whole long list of reasons.

-They may have squandered their childhood/teen years, already putting them at a disadvantage to serious students

-They don’t want to put in the initial effort getting the proper training (Think instant vs delayed gratification)

-STEM actually requires critical thinking skills

-The job, while perhaps stressful, is regular and simple (more repetitive work vs less work that is more complex)

-Their jobs already have a lot of women, so they just join the pack, or other women recommend them to join

-They already have massive debt from a garbage degree and can’t afford to go back to school

-They used to be supported by a man, but now have to earn their own living until the next guy comes around.

Lostapwbm has a somewhat more detailed explanation, and one that is slightly more rooted in consensus reality, if not always in the rules of grammar.

“Poor women have always had to work,” he writes.

Housewife is typically a role that only the wife of a successful or frugal man, and feminism is a vanity project of rich white women.

So why can’t these Starbucks ladies “bf/marry their way out” of the working world? First, he explains, there’s the problem of man-access.

[T]hey don’t have access to a man of sufficiently higher economic status that she can go from working woman to housewife/lady of the house.

And then of course there is the problem of these women being such stuck up snooty you-know-whats that they can’t appreciate the perfectly decent men right there under their nose ISN’T THAT RIGHT KIMBERLY SOME DAY YOU’LL REALIZE I WAS THERE ALL ALONG WE WERE MEANT TO BE oh whoops.

A lot of women aren’t attracted to the type of man who would lift her out of her lower economic status. He’s boring/lame/has no game. He just wants to move up his job, pay his bills, and basically live a drama-free life.

Well, ok, but what about living off of Big Daddy G?

Women dependent on the government (B.D. Govt as you put it) are in that category of drama-lovers. Three kids by two guys, ex-boyfriends are drug addicts/dealers, whatever you prefer, but the takeaway is these women don’t want a less stressful life because they emotionally feed on that drama.

Wordjedi agrees that these Starbucks baristas are a bunch of stuck up rom-com lovers holding out for some imaginary perfect dude but ha ha the joke’s on them — if they sleep with too many Mr. Right-Nows while waiting for Mr. Right, they’ll get so burned out on dick that something something cats box of wine.

Yeah, I’m having a little trouble summarizing this one. You try:

Remember that women still flock to romcom movies in droves. They still really think mating is equal, that two people who were meant to be together tritely run together through a meadow and embrace.

Until she finds her perfect six figure hunk, a girl’s gotta have some random stiff dick in her now and then, right? Especially when she’s had a few drinks so has an excuse not to give a fuck? ====> hookup culture.

Unfortunately, people give less and less of an (emotional) fuck for each random hookup. Bye bye, perfect romance. She’s bored with dick by the time she meets him, if she ever does. ====> box wine + cats + Starbucks barista 4-evah

The explanaiton proffered by good_man_gone is if anything even less cogent. He starts out by suggesting that any women you see working just weren’t pretty enough to score themselves the high-quality beta bux.

“I never in my life have seen a perfect ten flipping burgers for 7$ /hour,” he declares, with an almost audible wink.

But then he goes on to suggest that almost any gal — even those who are perhaps not that pretty — can find a man dumb enough to marry her up or at least buy her a couple of drinks at closing time amirite fellas?

And still there is plenty of guys out there who will happily marry the 3s or 4s and give them money. Smv is key here. Better looks = more free stuff and money. But fugly chicks get free drinks too you know.

I have to admit I was guilty of that in the past. You know when the pub is about to close and u are hammered and suddenly your brain tells you “go ahead buy her a drink, yeah the fat small chick over there do it”

I guess the real lesson here is to never ask MGTOWs for an explanation of anything.

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Tovius
6 years ago

Oh god, I just managed to forget about Walter and his stupid penis obsession.

anon
anon
6 years ago

“Why do women work low or pseudo status positions for employers that are primarily public facing?”

Was that english?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

I was thinking the “MG” could be “mysogynistic guys/gits” but that doesn’t seem mocking enough.

Ironically it almost gives them a gravitas they don’t deserve (and many of them probably think ‘mysogynist. Is a badge of honour)

Man-child, mewling, miserable?

Hmm, ‘Miserable gits totally obsessed by women’ has a bit of a ring to it.

Zolnier
6 years ago

Putting aside the sexist bullshit, I find it funny that these people think it’s still economically feasible for one part of a couple not to be employed.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

Ooh ooh,

“Misery-Guts….” or is that too English?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

Might be nice to get “Grumpy” in there somehow.

*abandons actual work, gets dictionary out*

guest
guest
6 years ago

Interesting point upthread about ‘a STEM degree’ not always being what people had been blamed for not getting–I guess in previous decades it was law or medicine or accounting that you were stupid if you didn’t study.

One of my degrees is ‘a STEM degree’ and most of the money I’ve made in my life has been through working as an engineer. At this precise moment in time, in the place I live, my particular set of skills and experience is in relatively high demand; I’m unlikely at this time to remain unemployed for long if I happened to lose my current job. But even this set of circumstances doesn’t seem to be enabling me to get a job with a salary and working conditions I would like to have and up until the crash could (I think) reasonably have expected to have. (And being a girl really isn’t helping–I’m sure people looking at me/interviewing me aren’t seeing the gravitas and respectability they expect to see in someone with my experience and qualifications.)

I don’t know where people get the idea that having ‘a STEM degree’ is a magic ticket to employment–I know LOTS of engineers who are unemployed or struggling, because engineering is a specialised field–at any given time employers want a person with a specific skill set to do a specific job, not just ‘an engineer’. I know the computer folks can tell horror stories about this, but it’s basically true for any ‘STEM job’. And most ‘STEM people’ don’t make a huge amount of money–you’d think when demand so dramatically exceeds supply, as in the subfield I’m in, salaries would increase, but the ‘free market’ doesn’t work like that when social pressure keeps salaries down and employers do anything they possibly can to meet their staffing needs without actually paying people (even when the cost of meeting those needs is higher than the cost of actually paying people more).

Saphira
Saphira
6 years ago

I don’t know where people get the idea that having ‘a STEM degree’ is a magic ticket to employment . . . . .

Because that’s what we’re told anymore. They’re pushing STEM very hard in my children’s schools and trying to steer them towards getting a STEM degree in college. Unfortunately, it’s just general STEM they’re pushing and not saying things like, “Based on projections the best STEM degrees to get are [insert relevant degrees here].”

Going to college was hailed as the Holy Grail, now it’s going to college and getting a random STEM degree.

Dr. NicolaLuna
Dr. NicolaLuna
6 years ago

Have they considered that some women genuinely like their jobs?

My sister is in training to be a nurse for end of life care. Although that’s a job I could never do, she’s perfect for it, she wants to make people’s last days comfortable and dignified and she considers it an honour to be able to help people going through that. Its stressful and public facing but she’s passionate about it. She’s an absolute hero.

I’m a drug and alcohol recovery worker, I help people when they are going through a really shitty time. If they are homeless I help to get them housed. If they have no skills I help them get on courses. I teach recovery skills and provide support and encouragement. It is so stressful. Sometimes clients die and I go to their funeral. It’s frustrating working with people who have chaotic lifestyles. But I adore my job so much.

If a partner insisted that I stay at home while he works, it would be a dealbreaker for me. I’d rather be single and loving my job than be with someone who expects me to stay at home. I’m glad that some people who want to stay at home are able to, people should be able to do what makes them happy. Especially if it annoys MGTOWs.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
6 years ago

The class loathing in this is high.

I could say why doesn’t everyone have a cushy job like me? I get to come in at 10 (or 1) and think and write for a living and swan around and meet people for coffee in museum cafes in London. I get to go to parliament and while I’m not exactly a major power player, my views have influence. Even the grub work I have to do (that comes with every job) isn’t that bad. And yes, sometimes I have stupid early starts or don’t get home til midnight from being on the road, but that’s not all the time. Gee, why oh why, doesn’t everyone have a job like me*???

Sure, yes, I have worked hard and I do have some skillz. But I also had a fortunate start through being born in a relatively lucky position in the US with free schooling that mostly wasn’t too bad, with professional parents and a wider family that valued knowledge work. I could have been born more fortunate, but there are lots of people in this world that would trade places with me. My main limitation in career has been a chronic struggle with depression, some anxiety and probably ADD (inattentive) – and a bit of sexism for flavour.

Oh, and I do have a random STEM degree. But I haven’t used it much. And yes, I will be pushing my son to STEM, but mainly because that’s what he finds easy and rewarding, but I’ll also be stressing that he’ll need a flexible set of skills chief of which is comms and presentation because people don’t tend to work at the same thing their whole lives anymore.

_____
*It doesn’t pay as well as I have earned, but the flexibility is amazing.

Jamesworkshop
Jamesworkshop
6 years ago

Not working gets kind of boring after a while, plus the fact that half of someone else’s money is probably less than 100% of your own money.

I knew a guy who’s wife was a millionaire, but he still worked low-status jobs just to occupy his time spent in between going down the bookies to bet on the horse racing.

guest
guest
6 years ago

@Saphira I taught engineering for several years, and heard a lot of that propaganda. I didn’t make too many friends when I wrote a letter to the editor of a local paper pointing out that at the time, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, none of the ten fastest-growing careers had anything to do with STEM and only a few even required college degrees.

@Dr. NicolaLuna I hope I have someone like your sister when it’s my time to need her help. And I hope someone like you would be around if I ever needed the kind of help you can offer. I admire both of you.

Walter
Walter
6 years ago

Tovius

My views on penis size are not “stupid” nor are they an obsession. They are a logical extrapolation of basic human nature and needs.

If people would listen to me, MRAs, PUAs the entire men’s rights movement would disappear overnight. The cause of their problems lies squarely between their legs. When you let people with small penises run around and act like full members of society on par with people with big penises, then the men’s rights movement is the natural result.

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

He’s ba-ack!

Epsilon
Epsilon
6 years ago

What about this Walter thing? I’ve only been here for a week at most, and I don’t know anything about this site’s commenters’ history. What is Walter arguing?

Banananana dakry
Banananana dakry
6 years ago

Oh god, who said Candyman three times?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

@Epsilon

He’s just a troll playing a character; his schtick is that he thinks every cis guy on the planet should be lined up by dick size and the winner should be declared God-Emperor Of Earth.

Epsilon
Epsilon
6 years ago

Ah, I see. Thanks for replying.

Dang, his stick–uh, I mean schtick–sounds hilarious.

Let the jokes and memes roll!

Kootiepatra
6 years ago

I guess these guys who think attractive women never have to work crappy service jobs have never heard of this little restaurant chain called “Hooters”. All of the stress of waitressing, except the sexual objectification is explicitly written into your job description.

There is also the fact that a small, but significant, percentage of people who work service jobs actually like what they do. I have a couple of friends who genuinely love cleaning houses, others who enjoy food prep, others who are lifelong baristas who genuinely obsess over creating perfect espresso drinks, others who opened their own pizza place and voluntarily spend hours sweating in front of broiling hot pizza ovens.

It’s sad, but not very surprising, that the Reddit post starts out, “Huh, none of my theories actually work in real life” but then doesn’t end with abandoning said theories.

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

@Epsilon:
Walter holds some interesting viewpoints on how men interact with other men. He’s escaped banning thus far mostly because of how funny he is.

dhag85
6 years ago

Is it time to ban Walter now or am I just being stupid?

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

Lemme test a theory.

Walter, I have a larger penis than you. I therefore command you to find me an animated gif of a squirrel riding on the back of a stegosaurus. Do not fail me in this vital mission.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

When you let people with small penises run around and act like full members of society on par with people with big penises, then the men’s rights movement is the natural result.

I have to say it. This time Walter was amusing. He scolded us (and the MRM) in a completely off-the-wall way. Let’s get those dicks measured and sorted!

I also have to ask why we never see Walter, Orange Tango Drinker, and Gavan on the same crosstown bus.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

@EJ (The Other One)
I thought Moocow was the boss of all penis-having people on WHTM.

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