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Life is so much better now that I’ve stopped seeing women as human beings, loathsome manbaby explains

Seeing women as objects: Not actually a new idea
Seeing women as objects: Not actually a new idea

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Members of that strange internet subculture known as Men Going Their Own Way face a bit of a dilemma: they hate women, a LOT, but at the same time most of them want very much to put their penises in them, which kind of gets in the way of the “Going Their Own Way” part of that whole “Men Going Their Own Way” thing.

But one Reddit MGTOW by the name of Isaiah4verse1 has found a solution of sorts to this little problem: He’s simply stopped seeing women as full human beings.

“I am actually no longer attracted to females,” he explains in a recent comment on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit.

I haven’t looked at porn in over a month. I can’t look at them without a deluge of Red Pill knowledge coming to mind. It’s great.

You’ve trained yourself to be repulsed by women. Congratulations.

I find it completely dishonourable to my mind, body and spirit to be bound sexually to such creatures therefore I took care of it with brute force and it’s done.

Wait, what? What exactly did you take care of “with brute force?” This didn’t involve a rusty steak knife and a lot of blood, did it?

Actually, it has worked too well. I don’t have any feeling towards women. I do not recognize them as complete human beings but unevolved persons.

Unfortunately, he’s not the first to arrive at this, er, enlightened position.

I am completely and utterly free and feel like a kid! (remember back before puberty when this garbage didn’t pollute your mind?)

Huh. My memories of life before puberty involve ugly cars, bad hairdos and songs by ABBA, but then again it was the 70s.

If the name Isaiah4verse1 sounds vaguely familiar to you, well, we’ve met him before. He was one of the MGTOWs who thought it was hilarious that Charlie Sheen might have passed his HIV along to a number of women.

Oh, and earlier this year he set forth his theory that women are basically a bunch of overpriced vagina buses. Maybe you remember that.

H/T — r/BestOfOutrageCulture

 

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Gosuamakenatek
Gosuamakenatek
6 years ago

@kupo:

Yep, you got me, I said the word “females” which can only mean I see them as subhuman. Congratulations on deciphering my code.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It looks like men can’t win judging by feminists impossible standards. You look at porn and your a pervert. You stop looking at porn and you a msygonist.

Wait. You think objecting to someone referring to women as not complete human being is an impossible standard? What standard do you think we should be holding men to? As long as a man isn’t serially killing us, he’s okay? Or would that be an impossibly bar too?

Also, it’s cute that you think there’s a monolithic feminist opinion regarding porn. Actually, this is a contentious issue that feminists argue about all the time.

Straight men would have to condition themselves to quit porn, because it’s addictive. If your gonna quit smoking or drinking your gonna need to develop a distain for cigarettes or alcohol, in order to quit them.

You can get addicted to anything. That doesn’t mean porn is addictive for everyone. Kind of like the alcohol you compare it to. However, the analogy doesn’t work all that well because you don’t need to hate something to quit it. I quit smoking 7 years ago and have never hated it. Another reason your analogy fails is that he’s not disdaining porn. He’s disdaining women. Comparing half of humanity to a toxic substance like booze and cigarettes is actually quite offensive.

I don’t see any problem with cultivating a distain for porn because overall I think any addiction is unhealthy and unlike what the modem “right on” concessions is with porn, I’m not really in favour of it. The reason the MSM is so accepting of porn these days is due to the fact it’s too popular to condemn.

They like porn because it gives them an excuse to get angry at women for not acting like female porn characters and angry at women because they don’t have the sex life of a male porn character. They like porn because most mainstream porn objectifies women.

Sex is more of a biological addiction with men and it skews male judgement on women, it prevents an honest dialogue between the sexes.

Oh good. Gender essentialist evo psych nonsense. I wasn’t expecting pseudoscientific bio truths at all!
/s

In all seriousness, how do gay people fit into this little narrative? What about trans and non binary people?

This is why women largely believe men are habitual liars.

We do? That’s news to me.

We lie in order to tell women what women need to hear, so that we can have sex with them.

Maybe you do. Don’t assume everyone acts like you and your I’m sure equally scummy friends.

This is also why many men become feminists, I know because I was once a male feminist. Today women may like me less for speaking my honest opinions but I also get laid more so go figure.

First of all, if you were only pretending to be a feminist to get into women’s pants, you were never actually a feminist.

Second of all, has it occurred to you that you can’t win with feminists because the feminists you’ve interacted with realized you were a creep even when you were masquerading as a male feminist?

Kale
6 years ago

Men who are asexual exist. So do men with low libidoes. So do monogamous men. So do poly women with high labidos. One size does not fit all sexually.

Is “evo pysch” short hand for people who didnt properly study biology or history thinking that anything they imagine can be stated as medical fact?

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Kale, not shy about asking the complicated questions, are you!

I’ll try and dig up a couple papers for you, and then put together a not overwhelmingly complicated answer to a thing that’s pretty stinking complicated.

The spark notes will eventually boil down to:

Traditional sex determination for humans is XX -> female, and XY -> male: however, the expression of the genotype can vary dramatically in the phenotype due to hormonal cascades, epigenetics, and other factors.

That is, biology is super complicated for something that is supposedly so simple, and genotype sometimes doesn’t match the phenotype. At all.

guy
guy
6 years ago
Reply to  Kale

Since the Y chromosome is so short, relatively speaking, most of the actual structural information is somewhere else and only activated by the Y chromosome. And for various reasons that can trigger when there’s no Y chromosome and can fail to trigger when there is, and sometimes people can have three X chromosomes or two X chromosomes and one Y. That last category is where male calico cats come from; because of how cat fur color genetics work calicos need two X chromosomes. It can cause various genetic issues in humans, but generally it’s entirely possible for someone to have a genotype-phenotype mismatch and live their entire life without even their doctors knowing.

Is “evo pysch” short hand for people who didnt properly study biology or history thinking that anything they imagine can be stated as medical fact?

It stands for Evolutionary Psychology, which is a legitimate field of study but extremely prone to errors resulting from assuming that cultural traits are genetic and assigning them evolutionary explanations, so discredited studies are frequently cited as fact to justify various forms of bigotry.

Legitimate studies explain things like why we tend to see patterns that aren’t there, because that was historically considerably less likely to get you killed than not seeing patterns that are there when “pattern” meant “predator”.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh. It’s not even a different troll on the first page that Kale was talking about. It’s Male Suicide again.

It’s true, a lot of so called MGTOW are not very articulate and clearly some are sexist.

Some? It’s not cherry picking if it’s an entire misogynist orchard. Time to play the game that no troll has ever played and won. Name three manospherian bloggers or even prominent commenters who aren’t misogynists.

Having said that, the same can be said of feminists.
If I dismiss all feminists based on some of their commentators, like the guardian writer who would like to see all males sent to concentration camps..then you would say I’m a misogynist?

Can you provide a link or at least a couple of more details so this can be easily Googled. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that no Guardian columnist has ever actually advocated this. Chances are high this is an obvious satire. I can’t really disavow something I’m not aware of. Of course, it doesn’t even matter that much because it’s a false equivalency. All MGTOW are misogynists. Few feminists actually hate men.

MGTOW (and I do so hate that acronym) is nothing more than male feminism.

Presented without comment.

It aspouses the same basic gender centric principles.

Actually, intersectional feminism is not all that gender centric. I think what you’re trying to say is that feminists want to install some sort of matriarchy. That’s just untrue. Your whole premise is just faulty.

The idea that men are better off without women is no different to what society in general has been fed for the last 30 + years, except the other way around.
Why do feminists now choose to call men playing by the same rules bad or more humiliating “sad”? If women needed men like a fish needed a bicycle and this was socially accepted within pop culture, then what’s the issue with the bicycle not needing a fish?

For the same reason white history month or a straight pride parade would be ridiculous. Does this really have to be explained to you?

And this is the real issue. Clearly our mainstream media allows feminist voices to be heard including the more extremist ones, such as you’ll see in the guardian… this normalises within the culture a abnormal extremists misandry.

Your reasoning for the mainstream media being feminist is one unnamed Guardian article? Really? If the media is so feminist, why are the vast majority of movie directors and TV showrunners men? Why are the minority of speaking parts in theatrically released movies female? Why are the vast majority of Sunday news talk show guests men? Why do men’s sports get daily primetime coverage on the broadcast and prominent cable networks but women’s sports are lucky to get any coverage on TV at all? I could go on.

For all the complaints about extremism within MGTOW, it’s limited to Reddit message boards. It’s not considered socially acceptable and no matter how hard feminists protest against MGTOW it is still a fringe culture. It may be a growing culture but you can blame the socially acceptable insanity promoted in the likes of the guardian for its growth.

There you go wanking on about the Guardian again. I can guarantee you that online misogyny existed long before whatever column you have a bee in your bonnet about was written.

And BTW, you are clearly confused about the purposes of this site. We’re mocking misogyny. We’re protesting them all that hard.

Yet I don’t see many “reasonable” feminists taking stock or cleaning house within their own ranks. No, much easier to take pot shots at men who openly say they no longer want women.

You keep complaining about these evil man hating feminists we should be kicking out of the club. But you’ve failed to name any feminists who are so extremist. You’ve failed to even name any criteria for what constitutes an extremist feminist.

If anything the MGTOW should be a feminists dream come true so why the animosity? It only makes it appear that women really do need men.

It’s because they never actually go their own way. They obsess about women and how much they hate us and they constantly troll feminist/social justice spaces. They seek attention from us far more than we’ve ever sought attention from them.

So my advice is just to completely ignore MGTOW especially as that’s what they say they are doing with you.

No they aren’t ignoring us. But nobody asked you for your advice. So why are you here giving it to us? Doesn’t that kind of disprove your claim about MGTOW ignoring us?

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@Gosuamakenatek
It was more than just that, but thanks for playing. You decided you’d rather not be attracted to a subset of people and the only thing that subset of people has in common is gender. The gender that you’re actually attracted to. What other fucking conclusion could I draw from that? I could understand not wanting to be attracted to specific people, like I’d rather not be attracted to my ex, but not an entire gender. Then you’re just a bigot.

kale
kale
6 years ago

I just really geek out about science.

Im known for asking hard to answer questions bc my brain just goes there

– “yes but what *is* Gravity reeeealllly?!!”

unfortunately this has fooled teachers into thinking Im super smart and then they get surprised and disappointed when I struggle with more basic facts

– “uhm, which side is the midline? Or is it the medial…?”

;p

dont sweat it I can google I just love it when ya’ll talk science to me. …. um not on a creepy way.

😀

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kale — random fish fact before I catch up here: bony fish do have a very similar skeleton to us, if you ignore pesky things like a pelvis and legs. But ribs and skull and spine? You’d never tell it wasn’t a mammal skull if you didn’t know what you were looking for. (Non-bony fish, well, they don’t have bones, so aren’t exactly relevant here!)

Snow Leopard
Snow Leopard
6 years ago

Wow. He’s willing to throw half the human race under a bus because of his selfishness. What a shitstain.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

I refuse to comment on the topic of suicide, because I will start screaming obscenities, so instead…

We’re going to have to throw organisms without genetic sex determination right out the window here. Sorry turtles. I love you, but I’m sorry.

*scoops up Darwin* no throwing turtles out windows contrapangloss! Shell injuries are Very Dangerous!

In all seriousness, how do gay people fit into this little narrative? What about trans and non binary people?

I can help with that, WWTH, I’m apparently not non-binary, I’m a bisexual asshole (I don’t see how my standards on what goes up my bottom are relevant, but it’s true, gender is not the first thing I notice)

Aka, we don’t. At best they hand wave away how they weren’t talking about us, more likely it’s insults.

*dies* I just heard my brother going “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry!” in the voice of “kitty stop biting me!” Our upstairs cat have an attitude problem over our basement cat.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

In political science, samples are usually not constructed, but taken at random. The problem lies with the fact that taking a truly random sample is basically impossible, so different weighting may be assigned to try to re-align the sample with the known reality, or other techniques used to sample groups that are hard to contact. The homeless, for instance, aren’t going to be sampled at anything like their actual proportion with a randomized phone or mail survey, but their views are just as important as the views of wealthy retirees who have nothing to do with their time but answer surveys. A entire subfield of political science is dedicated toward designing surveys that are as close to the true random ideal as possible.

Yep, you got me, I said the word “females” which can only mean I see them as subhuman. Congratulations on deciphering my code.

You need to go sit in the corner and have a long think about why you reflexively categorize women into their gender presentation, rather than as “women.”

If anything the MGTOW should be a feminists dream come true so why the animosity?

Because hating women and facilitating other men in their hatred of women does not actually constitute men going their own way? I’ve seen MGTOW message boards; 90%+ of their chitchat is about women, and how much they loathe same. Occasionally they will give one another dating tips. That’s only going their own way if it’s opposite day.

When you show us a man going his own way, for realsies, no longer caring about women at all, I will show you a comment board full of feminists happily waving him into the sunset.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Okay. I did find what Male Suicide was talking about.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150904155320/http://www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/8/29/an-interview-with-julie-bindel

I had to wade through the manosphere to find it though 🙁

He’s talking about Julie Bindel. I don’t know too much about her myself, but I think I’ve only heard her name because other feminists criticized her. So there’s that.

Here’s the passage he was talking about

Will heterosexuality survive women’s liberation?

It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.

I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s shit.

And I am sick of hearing from individual women that their men are all right. Those men have been shored up by the advantages of patriarchy and they are complacent, they are not stopping other men from being shit.

I would love to see a women’s liberation that results in women turning away from men and saying: “when you come back as human beings, then we might look again.”

Now there’s definitely some stuff to side eye in here. Including that bit about the camps. But I think I get what she’s saying here. Which is that women won’t have enough solidarity to dismantle patriarchy as long they are paired up in heterosexual relationships with men. Because people tend to regard their spouse as the most important to them. I do think that as bad as segregation (whether formal or informal) is, it does have one unintended benefit of creating solidarity when people who are marginalized due to race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. live in neighborhoods, work, and go to school with primarily each other. Because women spend just as much, if not more time with men as they do with each other, we find it easier to turn on one another, not see women as a marginalized group, and decide we don’t need feminism.

I don’t think the answer is segregating ourselves though. I think the answer is to be mindful of this dynamic and recognize that you can love a man and still hold him accountable and ask him to adjust his behavior and hold other men accountable.

I’m not sure she was being literal about the camps though. I think it was a wrong thing to say, but I also think the point was more that as long men have the power, we’re going to live in a patriarchy.

And now I’ve spent way too much time on what was probably a drive by troll. But what the hell else do I have to do on a Monday night? Watch (American) football?

Gosuamakenatek
Gosuamakenatek
6 years ago

@kupo:

Ok, I’m not gonna try to defend myself from your wild and far reaching assumptions about me based on one word that I used, because in the past, that exact thing has gotten me banned from several places. All I’ll say is that you don’t know me or what I’ve had to live with or why, just believe me when I say my life would have been a lot easier and I could have avoided a lot of permanent damage if I was asexual. It has nothing to do with what I think about women, if I was gay I might be going through the same thing right now and feeling the same way about men, I’d just be a lot less miserable and screwed up if I was attracted to nobody.

Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

Why do feminists now choose to call men playing by the same rules bad or more humiliating “sad”? If women needed men like a fish needed a bicycle and this was socially accepted within pop culture, then what’s the issue with the bicycle not needing a fish?

Who has a problem with men going their own way?

Not me. My problem is with self-described “MGTOWs.” And my problem with them is not that they’re going their own way. I’m all for them going their own way. I’d be glad to help them pack.

My problem with them is that they’re misogynists. The dingleberry David quotes in the OP–That dude’s living apart from women is not the problem. Contempt for and feelings of superiority to women is the problem.

Kale
6 years ago

I was invisioning a specific set of bones and a specific ancestor fish from a book called “your inner fish”. evolution is neato.

All I know about Bindel is she is transphobic. which means she already hates me so I cant possibly be on her side.

Something menosperians need to get is that I can be a feminist and not even read “feminist lit”. Feminism isnt a cult of personality. There is no femipope. All you need is to believe women are equal and must be treated equally. Bringing up this or that self proclaimed feminist who said a dumb thing means nothing. Theres a lot of debate anyway.

Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

I’m not sure she was being literal about the camps though

She wasn’t. IIRC her point was that ifmen were really as hopelessly violent and rapey as defenders of toxic masculinity imply they are (“boys will be boys!”), then, hell, better lock ’em up after dark.

Kale
6 years ago

@Gosu – for real, I highly recommend seeing a psychologist if you are feeling that way. For some, antidepressants can help and if you truly want to be celibate – which is a fine choice – antiDs can reduce your sex drive.

Im (mostly) asexual and its not so easy. we are pressured to date too. we get sexually harassed and stuff too. Aces sometimes do genuinely like to date. For someone on the borderline like me its all the more confusing. Theres no easy outs in life, or few.

idk exactly what you said before so Im not gonna go back and get into it but for the record no one here has an issue with everyone’s different sexualities, what we have an issue with is men who hate and harm women, The OP is clearly about a man who hates women.

Bina
6 years ago

I find it completely dishonourable to my mind, body and spirit to be bound sexually to such creatures therefore I took care of it with brute force and it’s done.

Translation: I wanked with a death grip, muttering gendered slurs the entire time. That’ll show those gendered slurs for arousing me so!

I don’t have any feeling towards women. I do not recognize them as complete human beings but unevolved persons.

As opposed to yourself, of course, who are a paragon of evolution and all that shit.

(snork)

Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

@Gosuamakenatek

I think I know what you meant. When for whatever reasons you just can’t, either with finding someone where you’re both attracted, or with making it work if you can, and life would just be so much easier if you weren’t tormented by sexual desires.

I’ve been there. Hang in; it will almost certainly get better. Hugs offered.

Gosuamakenatek
Gosuamakenatek
6 years ago

@Kale:
Hmm, I never knew that about anti-depressants. That does sound pretty appealing…unfortunately there are some things you can’t talk to a psychologist about, not in this state anyway, so there’s nothing I can do about it.
As for being asexual though, absolutely nobody has ever pressured me to date, so that wouldn’t be a problem, and as a guy I don’t get sexually harassed either, so that’s also not a problem. But I know what you’re talking about though, one of my best friends is an ace (cool term, never heard that) and she’s had to put up with crap like that too.

@Lady Mondegreen:
Yeah, it’s kinda like that, but it’s much worse and more complicated. Some things don’t ever get better, they will only get worse, because you’re stuck with them for life, unless you have your brain chemistry drastically altered or something. I don’t mean to sound melodramatic or anything, that’s just how it is and I’m used to it.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Being Ace (asexual) is pretty awesome. It isn’t a cure all box of hugs and puppies, though.

Things that Are Obnoxious/Hazardous to Ace Folks:

1) People assuming our lives are happy go lucky and drama free
2) People assuming if we aren’t sexual, we must be emotionless robots
3) People (especially doctors) not believing us when we say we aren’t sexually active/interested
4) People not believing you when you say you aren’t interested
5) People taking your lack of interest as a challenge and trying to ‘fix’ you with their magic kissing prowess (or their magic genitals)
6) Not noticing sexual subtext until after someone’s admitted they’re interested in you, and then having people accuse you of ‘leading them on’.
7) People assuming that you must have been abused to be ace, and offering you links to therapists websites
8) It being next to impossible to find fiction with platonic wonderfulness
9) When you do find fiction with platonic wonderfulness, having the internet shove webpages at you that ship all the characters
10) People asking you if you just have a hormone deficiency and don’t you want that fixed?
11) “You’ll meet that special someone, someday”
12) Feeling awkward watching shows because all the fanservice (which is totally not a service).
13) Feeling awkward singing along to the radio or in public because every single song is either religious or about love.
14) People talking about their crushes… and expecting you to know what they’re talking about.
15) The feeling like you can’t ever have a relationship because everyone acts like relationships = sex, and you’d be letting your partner down if you really don’t want sex
16) Your parents assuming you must be gay/lesbian because you’ve never brought a boyfriend/girlfriend home to meet them
17) When you actually like hugs and cuddling, but you don’t want sex, and people take hugs as proof you aren’t ace
18) Having an awesome friend that you love in every way… except the way they really, really want you to.
19) “You’re not ace, you’re just shy/socially awkward”

There’s a bunch more.

I haven’t had to face all of these, but I know people who have. I’m super glad to have avoided 5 (with only a couple exceptions, which fortunately were not the genital people), but 3 is super obnoxious.

Especially when you’re under 30 going in to try and renew a prescription for birth control pills used to manage PCOS, and then having to spend 30 minutes convincing the OB that you aren’t sexually active, are a super low risk for cervical cancer, and you really don’t need a pap-smear this year.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@Gosuamakenatek
If you honestly don’t have anything against women, then please try to call us women and not females (when using it as a noun–female is fine as an adjective) and please try not to blame your dating issues on them. If you’re just saying that you personally would be better off without sexual and/or romantic relationships, then say that. Don’t say your problems would be solved by removing a whole gender from the equation. And don’t even try to defend the position from the OP.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Kale, still working on your super interesting question.

It might be a bit.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kale — “I was invisioning a specific set of bones and a specific ancestor fish from a book called “your inner fish”. evolution is neato.” — that it fucking is!

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