So Return of Kings, which seems to be working hard at becoming the most abhorrent publication known to man, has a post up by regular contributor “strongsloth” titled 5 Lines That Potential Wives Cannot Cross — that is , five rules that Mr. Sloth thinks men should enforce with any woman they want to make their wife.
These rules are, naturally, horrific. So horrific, in fact, that they essentially provide us with Five Reasons You Should Not Marry, or Date, or Rent Apartments to, or Probably Even Live in the Same City With Anyone Who’s a Fan of Return of Kings.
So let’s go through them one by one. Do not date or marry a ROK fan because:
1) He will insist on being the supreme dictator.
[A]ll decisions about things outside the house are in your sphere. If she wants some responsibility, it’s ok if she chooses how to cook the eggs.
2) He will isolate you from your family and friends. You know, like abusers do.
Just make it clear that her family and friends from before are not important to you. Their opinions do not matter. Don’t spend a lot of time with them. … They will turn on you the moment there are problems between you and your wife. When that happens, the less influence they have the better.
3) He will get you pregnant in order to make you more dependent on him.
Contraceptives and abortion are murder
Why? Immediate children, more children, short gaps between children. These all increase her dependence on you and the loyalty that comes with it. …
If she is marriageable don’t be afraid to make her pregnant before marriage. There is nothing like a baby on the way to increase your bargaining power. … You are helping her by overcoming her female propensity to waste her fertile years on a career, bad boys, and antidepressants.
4) He will insist that you devote all of your time and attention to raising the children that result from his no-contraception or abortion decree.
He will do this in part because he doesn’t want to bother with the hassles of childrearing, and in part because forcing you to be a stay-at-home mother will allow him to restrict your life and control you more effectively:
Being a mother is a full-time job and her first priority. Any work, sport, church, or whatever that she can’t handle just has to go.
He’ll even insist on controlling how long you breastfeed the children:
Breast feeding is good for children and increases her bond with your children, so make her do it for one year. Then make her stop. Otherwise it might delay the next child and make her search for alternatives to being a wife and mother.
5) And last but certainly not least: Because he will rape you.
Under no circumstance can you accept the idea that she gets to choose if or when to satisfy you or choose to sabotage your joint fertility. …
You control the time and frequency of sex, not her. … [A] woman who will deny you sex early on will only use it to gain greater power over you in the long run. …
The obvious exception to this is the first time you have sex. Typically she will control the timing of that for obvious reasons. From the second time onward, any poorly-reasoned denial is a red flag.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not the real red flag here.
As strongsloth sees it, enforcing these rules will make it impossible for your future wife to ever “stray.”
Just imagine the situation. Wedding. Pregnant. Child born. Full time mother. No career. Breast feeding. Stop breast-feeding. Constant sex. Pregnant again. Repeat. There is little opportunity for her to get away from the children and her commitment to you, let alone consider alternatives to marriage. By the time the youngest child is in school her SMV [Sexual Market Value] relative to yours will have dropped, and you are safer.
You see what I was saying about how hard ROK is trying to become the worst publication in the world?
I couldn’t bring myself to look at the comments.
It sounds like you’re doing the right sorts of things. Talking to him seems like it was a good step in your case, and I’m glad it went well.
Whatever ends up happening, definitely wish you both well.
Welcome to the boards, btw! The scented candle is actually a link to the welcome package, if we start saying confusing things ’round here. 🙂
Thanks, for the welcome! However I’m not seeing the scented candle, am I missing something, lol 🙂
I’m dealing with a lot of conflicting feelings at the moment, but whatever I end up doing, whether I stay or go, I’ll make the best of it.
Thank you again for the welcome and well wishes.
Welp, we can also share it this way! Have a Welcome Package!
Also, still hoping for all the best of luck for you and your situation. 🙂
We had a friendly debate last night about how some women dress “too sexy” at work, and how in sexual harressment cases women are favored in the workplace. WTF? We mostly butted heads.
That sounds like a huge red flag to me. At best he thinks women deserve harassment and abuse. At worst he is a harasser and an abuser.
It’s not my place to tell you to dump him, but honestly, you should.
I admit, I’d be leery of anyone parroting MRA stuff in real life. I don’t live in the most liberal of areas, but even the conservatives I know think that shit is pretty rancid.
I’m not sure if your partner is looking at that stuff because he’s already in the mindset, or if he’s feeling tremendously insecure and is looking for support, but either way, it’s definitely deserving the side-eye.
One of the things to watch out for is when people avoid talking about the reasons they, or other men, do things and instead talk about the justifications for these things. There is an important difference between reasons and justifications. The reason men harass their coworkers is because they believe themselves entitled to do so. The way the women dress is the justification for the harassment. In other words, the first rule of misogyny. Women are responsible for what men do to them.
mariec, I’d tread very carefully. You sound like a smart person with a good handle on that, though. The bit about women deserving workplace harassment is really concerning. :/
I got into some of the “redpill” stuff awhile back b/c they are really good at seizing on some extremely common prejudices and insecurities so someone who’s going through a tough patch may think they’ve got the answers. There IS good info mixed in there, but the good parts are available, sans toxic garbage, elsewhere. Sad part is, if he’s really that attached to his worldview there’s really not much you can do to argue him out of it, as he may at some level see you as the enemy or as an inferior. :/ If he’s that far gone, nothing to do but go.
Take care of yourself out there!
Thanks, we’ve had a few other debates since last I posted. In fairness, I didn’t really go into too much detail last time. He wasn’t so much upholding that harassment was an acceptable or justifiable way to behave, but rather that attire should be professional in the work place. I agree, but we have a difference of opinion of on where that line is drawn. He felt a woman should dress as she is “going to church”, no cleavage, skirts no shorter than knee length, nothing too tight. I feel that is too conservative given current fashion trends, especially if you hold a job in which dressing up and staying current is an asset (no pun intended, lol). I also think that while men’s fashion trends are different, many men are also expected to dress up and be well groomed in certain professions. Dressing “sexy” to move ahead in the work place based on the merit of your physical appearance alone is not a concept I agree with, but sure it happens. As does being overlooked or even frowned upon for dressing too conservatively, thus negatively impacting your success in the workplace. For me, this is a societal problem.
Where it comes to sexual harassment policies favoring women, I think he is being misled. His argument was that the system is abused by women who dress provocatively to get the attention of a certain male, and then view the attention of an unwanted male as sexual harassment. The issue being that if the desired male behaved similarly it would be welcomed. So said woman files a sexual harassment complaint because the wrong guy was looking at her, and now he’s in trouble at work, his reputation is soiled, etc. And that happens ALL the time? I’m sure it’s happened before, there are unscrupulous people out there in the world, but that doesn’t mean those policies shouldn’t be in place. Also, you don’t have to dress “sexy” to receive unwelcome attention, i.e. a baggy t-shirt, but he’s still staring blatantly at my chest.
I’m rambling again, sorry. I’m a terrible debater, I do much better addressing the issue a day or two later when I’ve had a chance to organize my thoughts. I realize that his beliefs aren’t going to be changed by anything I say. I believe he is susceptible to these ideas based on experiences related to him by close friends and work buddies, and also some of his own negative experiences from past relationships. I don’t want to make him out to be some kind of jerk because he is not. He is a very quiet and introverted individual, as am I. While I’ve never observed him in the workplace, I definitely don’t believe he would behave in such a manner toward a coworker. When we’ve talked about him visiting these sights, he acknowledges there is a lot of women-hating and nonsense, but maintains some of what he reads rings true and goes towards explaining internal issues he has long struggled with. I’m still trying to figure out exactly what he means by that. Any thoughts?
1. Women don’t file harassment complaints because someone just happened to be looking at them. If someone was to try it wouldn’t go anywhere.
2. Women, just like men, are allowed to enjoy sexual attention from some people but not from others.
3. Expressing the fact that you’re open to sexual attention from person A but from person B, no thanks, is not “unscrupulous”.
It’s the fact that your boyfriend seems to fundamentally not grasp issue number 2 that I’d be most concerned about. Men who don’t have a firm grip on that idea are dangerous.
So given the choice between having a harassment policy that some women or men may abuse and having no harassment policy which some men or women may abuse, he prefers no policy. Since the majority of harassment in the workplace is men harassing women he is justifying the ongoing harassment of women to avoid the risk that a mans reputation be soiled. This is the song that the false rape allegation MRA d00dz sing. It is bullshit, but the “just so stories” tell the men what they want to hear.
The issue that we all have to struggle with is misogyny. The first rule of misogyny that we have to deconstruct is that women are responsible for what men do. Your boyfriend seems to be having a problem with this.
He seems to have such a low opinion of men that he does not think they can be expected to behave in a professional manner in the workplace unless the women they are attracted to disregard the office “uniform” and wear clothes that they read as saying no to them.
Does your boyfriend have any women friends? I am guessing that he does not think women and men can be friends because of his extremely low opinion of men.
The only reason anyone should be expected to dress like they’re at church for work is if they work at a church. That’s another warning sign of a man who thinks that if men hurt women it’s the women who’re responsible for it.
I’d run away from this dude as fast as my legs could carry me, if it was me.
Dress like you’re at church’ doesn’t work for everyone. At work, I usually dress like I’m a direct patient care sort of nurse, at a hospital. When I’m at church (well, temple, actually) I wear baggy jeans and a nasty old sweat shirt that’s about 3 sizes too big. Conflating the two would be totes embarrassing! 😛
Seriously, though, I’m finding your boyfriend’s attitude disturbing. I’ve been harassed at work, and if anyone tried to blame it on what I was wearing, I’d accuse them of having some sort of unhealthy fetish for baggy clothes and sensible shoes. Seconding what cassandra and bewilderness said. People sexually harass others because the harassers feel entitled to the harassed in some way. Making excuses for harassment is a big red flag for me.
mariec, your boyfriend also seems to miss the point that sexual harassment is unwanted and persistent. It’s not just “looking at someone,” it’s a power play and part of the whole spectrum of sexual assault. It also happens to men – has he even considered that? What sexy sexy clothes were those guys wearing, hmmm?
Harassment has nothing to do with what the person’s wearing. Saying so is just blaming the victim, and it’s the same thinking (if it can be dignified with such a term) as blaming rape victims for actions that are entirely the choice of the rapist.
I’m with the others here: this man’s sending up huge red flags and I would not entrust my safety to someone who’s in the “she asked for it” camp.
I really appreciate all the input. Currently, I’m keeping an open line of communication with my boyfriend, we are certainly discussing and sometimes debating these ideas. I hope that I have not given a terrible impression of him. His actions, what I’ve witnessed and especially in regards to our relationship, do not correlate with the beliefs espoused by the MRA & MGTOW groups – pun intended 🙂 Have no fear, I will stop trying to work through this and part ways with him if that ever should become the case.
Whatever happens in this relationship, I just hope that you stay happy and safe! 🙂
This is beyond impossibly stupid. How the hell does Roosh V sleep at night!?
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooool sex market ends when her kids are at school? You’re either totally ignorant, or never met any women in your whole life, or just a 12 year old day dreaming in his skid marked panties.