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A Voice for Men’s TyphonBlue uses the case of a man who set himself and his son on fire as evidence of the moral superiority of men

TyphonBlue, making the face I make every time I read anything she's written.
TyphonBlue, making the same face I make every time I read anything she’s written.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are discussing the case of a Japanese man who set himself and his nine-year-old son on fire on a playground in an attempted murder-suicide; the man died, but his son, while severely burned, managed to survive.

The discussion amongst the Men’s Rightsers is actually less awful than one might expect, with only a few commenters making excuses for the man, or blaming his ex-wife. Many of the regulars are actually condemning his actions straightforwardly.

And then there’s TyphonBlue, the highly inventive female Men’s Rights activist who is one of A Voice for Men’s self-proclaimed “Honey Badgers.” She thinks the fact that the man tried to kill himself along with his son is a point in his favor and, more than that, a sign that men are better than women.

No, really. She blames “pedestalization” for it all.

typhonblue -12 points 1 day ago (18|30)  He didn't kill his son.  Unlike mothers, fathers don't scrimp on the suicide part of the suicide-murder.      permalink     source     parent     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]osbe 11 points 22 hours ago (15|4)      He didn't kill his son  What the fuck are you trying to say? The son didn't die (yet) so this is not "as bad" as what women do?      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]typhonblue -1 points 8 hours ago (2|3)  Little more time today.  Am I puncturing your vision of women as the "more moral gender"?  How about this, when you give a group of people an automatic "more moral than thou" card, they become worse human beings.  The pedestal creates the monster.

You see, if you didn’t put women on a pedestal, they’d kill themselves along with their kids, and all would be well in the world. I guess? I really don’t see why this would be better.

Later in the thread, TB tries to explain her peculiar logic further:

typhonblue 0 points 7 hours ago (2|2)      I subscribe to the cliche that the female of the species is more deadly (or at least more vicious) than the male.  You think women are more evil than men and… what? What are you arguing about?  So we're essentially in agreement about women being "more evil" because they're more likely to kill their kids and fail at killing themselves* except I believe that it's a result of pedistalization and you believe it's a result of what?  Being female?      Why do you need to say anything that can even be twisted to look like you're defending what this guy did?  I'm saying if you want to kill your kids, don't forget to kill yourself as well. Preferably first.  *At least when you attempt to kill yourself and your kids, you can argue that it's a result of extreme mental distress. Killing your kids but not yourself… That's less excusable.

I think it’s time to pull out the old Don Draper “what?!” gif again.

don draper saying what

I will grant her one point: she’s correct that, while fathers and mothers are roughly equally likely to kill their children, men are much more likely to kill themselves as well. Why this would be a sign of moral superiority I don’t know.

I should also note that this doesn’t mean that the men and women kill children equally: while 57 percent of those who kill children under 5 are parents, the non-parents who kill children are mostly men.

In any case, “pedestalization” has pretty much nothing to do with it — unless you’re talking about the tendency of fathers who kill themseves and their children to overrate their own indispensablility.

So why do parents kill their children? Not surprisingly, mothers and fathers tend to have wildly different motivations. In Slate, Dahlia Lithwick summarizes what we know:

Researchers, building on the work of Phillip Resnick, have shown that women tend to kill their own offspring for one of several reasons: because the child is unwanted; out of mercy; as a result of some mental illness in the mother; in retaliation against a spouse; as a result of abuse.

It may be hard to understand how a mother can come to believe that killing her children would be an act of mercy, but that’s what postpartum psychosis can do to your brain.

The motivations for fathers tend to be rather different:

Most frequently … they kill because they feel they have lost control over their finances, or their families, or the relationship, or out of revenge for a perceived slight or infidelity. … more often than not, men kill their children to get back at a woman—to take away what she most cherishes.

As Charles Patrick Ewing, a University of Buffalo law professor and psychologist, told Elizabeth Fernandez of the San Francisco Chronicle

“These are narcissistic, self-centered guys who see themselves as the glue of the family. They feel they have to take their own life, but first, they have to kill the children. To them, it seems rational. They think they can’t manage and the family can’t manage without them.”

It’s also worth pointing out that when you look at murder-suicide in general — and not just when children are among the victims — it is almost exclusively (roughly 90%)  a male crime, with the victims almost always female, generally the man’s wife, girlfriend, or ex. Not surprisingly, disproportionate number of those responsible for murder-suicides involving intimate partners were also domestic abusers. (As was, reportedly, the Japanese man who set himself and his son ablaze.)

The only heartening thing here is that TyphonBlue actually got downvoted in the Men’s Rights subreddit for spouting her toxic nonsense.

EDITED TO ADD, 12/30/13: The son, who had been in critical condition since the incident, has now died.

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gillyrosebee
8 years ago

The Weeping Angels are scarier than any other bad guy! Scarier even than The Silence!!!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

The Weeping Angels are the only genuinely scary Doctor Who bad guys, imo. I can’t get past my first impression of the Daleks as talking trash cans for long enough to find them scary, and the Cybermen just remind me of the Mr Roboto video.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

“Don’t blink. Blink and you’re dead.”

Incidentally, I’m getting myself a Weeping Angels T-shirt.

moldybrehd
8 years ago

Re: the ‘tribal’ discussion

opium4themasses wrote:

There was a discussion of cults on an earlier thread and I don’t think the word fits. The MRAs just seem tribal.

I was side-eyeing this simply because it *seemed* as though ‘tribal’ was being used as a negative term that was simply less extreme (and clinical) than ‘cult’. There isn’t a lot of context here, so it’s hard to tell. I tend to associate ‘tribal’ (especially in context with white people) with New Tribalism (of the Daniel Quinn variety), and I really don’t think the MRAs fit that grouping.

Unless we’re talking about this guy’s kind of New Tribalism, in which case, it’s kinda spot on:
http://frohnmayer.uoregon.edu/speeches/newtribalism/

Re: the actual manboobz article

Nope. The horribleness of TB is… nope. I’m not going to force myself to think about it. Nope. I’ll just go back to thinking about the use of the word ‘tribal’, thanks all the same.

moldybrehd
8 years ago

@ alice – that is an awesome t-shirt! Though I honestly think I’d freak myself out just a little if I had anything like that in my house.

gillyrosebee
8 years ago

So, my question is, do I need that tshirt in black or grey? Because clearly, I must have one.

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

moldybread – I’m thinking that if I see it more often, it might be less scary. *crosses fingers*

gillyrosebee – 😀 I’m getting it in white myself, and I want this T-shirt to come in faster! GAH

I’m getting this one too, and I can’t wait. It better come in by next week, so that I can have it before I go back to school!

gillyrosebee
8 years ago

I’ve got this on back order and I can’t wait till it gets here!

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

*squees* Now I want that!

I wanted to get this shirt today, but it was out of order. DAMN ITTTTTTTTTTTTT. 🙁

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Wow. Read the OP. Just Wow. The need for external acceptance is strong with this one. So sad. How much self-hate and internalized sexism does one have to embody to glorify a murder/suicide involving a child — as long as the perp is a man?

fauxrambo
fauxrambo
8 years ago

Its a good thing Typhon’s comment was down voted because I didn’t understand a word she was saying, I simply think that bad things happen sometimes and this is the result of it. A bad person does bad things, case closed, no need to try to blame others who were not in it in the first place.

The only people that hurt are the victims who it was done to in the first place, it most certainly didn’t affect miss Typhon any that’s for sure, everyone can be sure of that much. So anything else she has to say is coming from a true narcissists point of view, typical of only thinking about herself instead of the little kid it happened to, because in the end that is who suffers.

I see no logic what so ever to back up Typhon’s comment.

What mostly disturbs me the most is that she is practically bragging that this man set his son on fire, she immediately goes to the “its all the women’s fault” to absolve them of any guilt what so ever. That is a true sociopath, to really dehumanize the true victims and really study the case. She is not doing this because she cares, she really gets off on saying this type of stuff. Sick and twisted.

My theory is that there is a reason for everything, a guy who would try to kill his son shouldn’t of had them in the first place, no fit for it. You never take anything out on anyone else, its never the kid’s fault, never and if that person was so evil for the fact that all he could do is to try to kill his son because hey you know I am going to say it, you know what I think he was thinking??

“If I cant have my kid, then no one can”

and in a fit of rage he decided to take the one thing that was close to the mother to hurt her.

that is selfish, evil, irresponsible and undignified. No type to be a father, it was not meant to be.

Next time Typhon opens her mouth, try telling her to go pay for the kids hospital bills while she’s at it!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Ok people, weeping angels shirts? What the FUCK are you thinking?! The image of an angel itself becomes an angel!

Also, Vasta Nerada (sp?) or weeping angels, tough call there. I agree with Cassandra though, neither Daleks nor Cybers are the scariest.

The gas mask kid…creepy, so fucking creepy. And sad. The first time she could acknowledge him as her son was when the world would end if she didn’t? (And this is the time MRAs want to return to? Where having an out of wedlock teen pregnancy means, at best, her parents raise the kid as their own?)

Back to the discussion of the term tribal — kitteh, yeah I’m getting the impression that most people do not share my view of it being a neutral term applied to groups of indigenous peoples. And gillybeerose’s analysis of white nationalists is, frankly, making weeping angels look less scary. So idk, my US link was in response to pecunium’s US reference (the Sioux), I didn’t mean to generalize it outside that context. But context, I suck at it (particularly when directing things at pecunium who I assume can sort wtf my brain is outputting!)

In any case, I’m still thinking insular is a better term, if only because tribal carries two lay connotations — actual tribal people (which too frequently means “those uneducated brown people”) or some generic shit like tribal tattoos. That is, regardless whether tribal may be technically accurate, insular seems like it’d be clearer. But that might just be the mess I call a brain.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“The only people that hurt are the victims who it was done to in the first place…”

Assuming you’re including the mother and extended family along with the kid, I give your comment a rousing ramen! (The non-religious form of amen around here. On that note, you get a welcome package yet?)

Marie
8 years ago

@argenti aertheri

In any case, I’m still thinking insular is a better term, if only because tribal carries two lay connotations — actual tribal people (which too frequently means “those uneducated brown people”) or some generic shit like tribal tattoos.

Ditto. My objection was b/c it seemed like it was to have a lot of implications of “uneducated brown people”. And um hopefully that made sense? cuz my brain’s kinda frazzled at the moment.

fauxrambo
fauxrambo
8 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri

You assumed correctly 🙂 I was meaning everyone, I really think the mother is really having a hard time right now because she probably blames herself.. and that’s what he wanted her to do. This was an act of evil, and Typhon talking about women being killers is irony to me because she is a psychopath herself. Well at the very least a sociopath, and a sociopath claiming to know the “human condition” is well.. at least worth a face palm to the forehead a couple dozen times.

My first response to Typhon’s comments was really:

“TURN IT OFF TURN IT OFF”

but … alas.. I was too late!

And thanks for your comment.. I don’t know about any welcome package but word press is weird to me I am not used to navigating outside of social forums to tell you the honest truth so I am getting used to it.

…. but do tell me the welcome package would be a kitty? I would be most grateful and would love this site foreverz and foreverz 😛

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

I see Alice had the welcome package covered! That the first one you’ve gotten to give out Alice? Either way, please pop over to the Borg admin post about monthly themes if you haven’t yet.

fauxrambo — you’re probably right about the mother, plus, idk how badly burned the kid is, but not knowing if he’ll survive has to be horrible. But, um, lay off on the psychopath and sociopath please? Neither is an actual psych diagnosis, but armchair psych doesn’t fly around these parts (nor does comparing MRAs to the mentally ill, but you’ll read about that in the welcome package)

And just Argenti is fine btw, you don’t have to write out Aertheri if you don’t want to. Also, since we’re doing my standard greeting, I use gender neutral pronouns — ze/zir — you?

Alice Sanguinaria
8 years ago

Argenti – Never given out a Welcome Package before, no. Figured that I can now give myself permission to give them out, since I’ve been here for a few months now. 🙂

Heading over now, will be writing a post as well.

fauxrambo
fauxrambo
8 years ago

I fear I violated the first rule of holes 🙁 I called typhon a sociopath… but I guess that would be unfair for other people, happy I read that!

…also I was right, it has kitties! I love this site forever!!!!

So I guess your stuck with me muwhahahahahaha

😀

(I tried to do a format since I want to learn how to format my comments, lets see if it works!)

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

Ooooh, look at that sexy, sexy bolding!

fauxrambo
fauxrambo
8 years ago

Ah.. Argenti..

I must admit I don’t know about any gender neutral pronouns, I am really new to this stuff, since last year maybe. From my experience though, I don’t look at gender as gender… I really think people are people, I don’t see gender in terms of gender really…

Since I am rather new I was introduced by some articles I happened across from AVFM and thought they were just… not factual and was mad by it. Its disheartening for people to hate feminism that much, I didn’t think there were people like that out there.

So just to be more specific, do you mean gender neutral pronouns just when you want to specify Miss or Mr and instead just use ze/zir? I am only curious, sorry for my ignorance on the subject.

Marie
8 years ago

@fauxrambo

Welcome :3

Marie
8 years ago

@fauxrambo

gender neutral pronoun lesson. (feel free to correct me if I fuck this up argenti)

He walked the dog/ She walked the dog/ Ze walked the dog.

It was his/ it was hers/ it was zirs

That belongs to him/ that belongs to her/ that belongs to zir.

I hope that answered your questoin.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Marie nailed it.

Alice — re: Borg, thanks, I’ll pop over to give that post a once over spellcheck once I calm down after going off on the troll one that other thread. And yep, you’ve been here long enough to give them out, at least by me 🙂

fauxrambo — nawh, violating the first rule of holes would require you to argue how you’re right and we’re wrong, your reply is the opposite of that, and appreciated. And no worries about the pronoun question, I’m used to explaining, and do it often enough for Marie to know my standard example.

Ok, I’m taking a ‘net break to get stabby at some fruit ninja, that troll really pissed me off.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Welcome, fauxrambo! 🙂

On pronouns – mine are she, etc. The pic shows my husband, not me, despite what some of our recent trolls have thought. 😛

Argenti – see, for me tribal means too many other things to default to “those uneducated brown people”. If nothing else, it describes my ancestors in Europe and Britain and Ireland perfectly well, or the “tribes” in Melbourne (Goths etc). It’s at least a type of society, not the colour of the people in said society.

But insular’s a perfect word for MRAs:

adjective: insular
1.
ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one’s own experience.
“a stubbornly insular farming people”

synonyms: narrow-minded, limited, blinkered, restricted, inward-looking, conventional, parochial, provincial, small-town, localist, small-minded, petty-minded, petty, close-minded, short-sighted, myopic, hidebound, dyed-in-the-wool, diehard, set, set in one’s ways, inflexible, dogmatic, rigid, entrenched, illiberal, intolerant, prejudiced, bigoted, biased, partisan, sectarian, xenophobic, discriminatory

antonyms: broad-minded, tolerant

lacking contact with other people.
“people living restricted and sometimes insular existences”
synonyms: isolated, inaccessible, cut off, closed, separate, segregated, detached, solitary, lonely, insulated, self-contained, self-sufficient

“an insular community which has few links with the rest of the world”

antonyms: accessible, cosmopolitan

2.
relating to or from an island.
“goods of insular origin”

There are more meanings, but I particularly like that one. They really should be on Reddit Island or MRA Island.

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