a voice for men antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? misogyny MRA narcissism paul elam taking pleasure in women's pain

Elizabeth Vargas checks into rehab; A Voice for Menners gloat, moralize

He's so concerned.
He’s very concerned.

So A Voice for Men, classy joint that it is, “reported” yesterday that Elizabeth Vargas of ABC’s 20/20, who interviewed Paul Elam for a 20/20 piece that has yet to air, has checked into rehab in order to deal with her alcoholism. The general reaction of commenters there ranged from “ha ha” to “well, maybe once she’s cured she’ll see how oppressed we men really are.” Those aren’t exact quotes. The exact quotes are below.

Here’s one especially classy exchange. Note the upvotes.

nick says	  November 6, 2013 at 9:49 PM	  More box wine for us. Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 Log in to Reply      Laddition says	      November 7, 2013 at 7:16 AM	      I think that she preferred Chateau Bile, all the real classy feminists do. It’s an acquired taste, but they suck it down like there’s no tomorrow, apparently.

In another comment a bit too long to conveniently screenshot, Laddition explained his position in a bit more detail, winning a few upvotes in the process:


She doesn’t care about me or my gender, in fact she intended to do material harm to my brothers and I, she has no right to expect any better response from me than that.

If she drains the poison from her soul and comes back as a better person and does better for the other half of humanity, I may have some encouragement for her. Until then; none, nada, nietski, sweet fa.

And why do I hold such an uncharitable view?

Because I think that until women in general understand that there are costs (indifference from men) to their feminist acts, they’ll never see a reason to change. At the moment the best many of them’ll do is cluck at what the ‘extreme’ feminists say and keep taking the goodies provided for them by such harpies over the backs of men.

Men don’t have to hate women, a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman. If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

In a followup comment, he added:

And I hope that the interview with Paul was part of the breakdown and subsequent recognition of the darkness in her own twisted heart. May she benefit from the lesson by going and doing no more evil unto men.

Even the putatively “sympathetic” comments quickly turned into smug little “told-you-sos.”

Robert St. Estephe says	  November 6, 2013 at 9:43 PM	  Alcoholism is a serious problem. She has my sympathy. Also, as feminists frequently point out, chronic drunkenness often leads to poor choices that later are regretted. Perhaps sobriety will help Ms. Vargas to become interested in exploring human rights in a more well-informed and professional manner.

One commenter even managed to work in a snide reference to Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In” slogan:

August Løvenskiolds says	  November 6, 2013 at 10:04 PM	  Perhaps the shock of having to confront her denial about how feminism hurts both men and women helped her realize also the role that alcohol was playing in covering up that denial.  She had done the “lean in” thing; the pressures drove her to lean into a bottle.  I hope her recovery is a positive to her life.

Elam’s own comment on the story was a small masterpiece of passive-aggressive faux-sympathy:

Paul Elam says	  November 6, 2013 at 10:28 PM	  Alcoholism is a monster to deal with. And in your 50′s? It is brutally hard to make the kind of internal changes and personal growth required for sustained sobriety.  I know that Vargas has ill intent against me. And if the timing on this new story is correct, I was most likely interviewed by her when she was close to the bottom of a downward spiral into the addiction. But I do wish her success at beating this, She has a family and children that will only be hurt if she does not prevail.  I hope she makes it, and I hope the necessary gaze into the mirror that recovery from alcoholism demands helps her find a little compassion for people she has so far refused to understand.

That’s right, Paul. It’s all about you. And the only reason she was troubled by your hateful shit is because she was a drunkard with no “compassion” for poor oppressed assholes like you.

Elam was once, he says, an addiction counselor. Given his incredible narcissism and clear lack of empathy for at least half of the human race, if not the vast majority of it, it is rather hard to see how he could have been any good at that job.

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9 years ago

I was trying to send LBT something through itunes and it wasn’t working. But we got it sorted.

9 years ago

Indifferent, my ass. That’s the last thing these boys are.

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
9 years ago

If they’re so indifferent towards feminists and uppity women, WHY ARE THEY STILL TALKING ABOUT US???

Alice Sanguinaria
9 years ago

Lili Fugit – Because misogyny is their fuel?

Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Katz — well glad it’s sorted then 🙂

9 years ago

I’d like to expend a couple of paragraphs’ worth of energy explaining why I find these guys’ position bothersome (so far as I am concerned) and untenable (from their own point of view). What they keep reiterating is that they can’t be expected to care about Elizabeth Vargas as long as she doesn’t care about them. The tenor is: “if you won’t prop me up, don’t expect me to prop you up, sweetie.” And, so far as that statement goes, I think everything in it is fair. What they’re saying, collectively, is that they’re not in love with Elizabeth Vargas and that they sense that no love is directed at them from her. What puzzles me is that they leave this implication floating around that there’s an injustice involved. (Illustration: when a dude starts a message out with the header “I Do Not Care” and superadds about 225 words to that sentiment, obviously something is amiss. He may not care about the woman he refers to but it’s evident that he cares about something.)

What does he care about? That’s the thing which irritates me. He doesn’t care about Elizabeth Vargas, that I believe. But he does care whether she thinks well of him — in fact he expects her to think well of him as a matter of course. She’s a woman — isn’t it her duty to think highly of men? (And of him, as a man?) Isn’t it her duty to look up to them? (And to him, likewise?) Isn’t it her duty to see his side of every story, whether or not he’s willing to admit that her side of the same story exists? Isn’t it her duty to provide him with emotional support at all times, on the supposition that if they were both stuck together on the Titanic he wouldn’t pitch her over the side but would help her into a lifeboat in a gentlemanly manner? (Never mind how that situation worked out in RL.) Well, as with this one guy, so with them all. He is the canary in the mine and the indicator of the common malady. Which is: these guys to be allowed to come from a neutral position in which (naturally) they can’t be expected to give a drat about anybody who hasn’t done anything directly in their favor. (“What have you done for me lately?”) But Elizabeth Vargas, qua female, isn’t permitted the same neutrality. She’s supposed to be suffused with kindliness for all men just on the basis that they exist, and these guys suffer, really suffer, at the notion that she isn’t. (Another thing these people keep repeating, in various forms, with knit brows, is: “Don’t force me to think less of women than I do.” But honestly I think they’d be much less grumpy if they counted on less.)

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
9 years ago

Laddition’s comment tickles me. I can’t help but imagine a bunch of manosphere guys feigning indifference and waiting desperately for some woman, somewhere, to care.

Hey, fellas, why’nt you try holding your breath til you turn blue? That’s sure to make mommy’s women love you!

9 years ago

What they keep reiterating is that they can’t be expected to care about Elizabeth Vargas as long as she doesn’t care about them. The tenor is: “if you won’t prop me up, don’t expect me to prop you up, sweetie.” And, so far as that statement goes, I think everything in it is fair.

Well, I’m not sure that’s fair because there’s a level of basic human empathy involved. See the example further up of the Box Turtle Bulletin wishing a NOM spokesman a speedy recovery. It’s frequently forgotten – to an extent it’s natural to conflate hateful ideas with the person speaking them, and thus to see injury to a person spreading hurtful ideas as a good thing – but if you have some practice at seeing the shared humanity of people and wanting the best for everyone, it’s easier.

Elam’s clearly not very good at it; he knows that’s what you’re supposed to do if you’re concerned about people’s rights, but he just can’t help wondering whether this’ll help him advance his argument. This is likely the only way he’ll advance his argument given that it’s mostly built on lies.

9 years ago

Look at TIME’s Christ Christie cover, a whole lot of feminists got into their shit for making an issue of his weight.

9 years ago

Impossible, Pecunium. Women don’t care about men!

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