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John The Other debates John The Other on MRA misogyny, loses

John Hembling: Open mouth, insert foot.
John Hembling: Open mouth, insert foot.

So the other day someone asked the Men’s Rights subreddit “Why do people think you guys hate women?”

There were a lot of ridiculous answers to that question, but one of the most ridiculous (and one of the most highly upvoted) responses came from our old friend John Hembling, the blabby Canadian videoblogger and A Voice for Men “Editor in Chief” also known for some dopey reason as John The Other. He explained:

johntheother [-37] 29 points 3 days ago (36|7)  They dont actually think we hate women. The accusation is a derailing tactic, designed to push the topic towards a defensive posture, and requiring proof from us (MRAs) that "hatred of women" is a false claim.  When used, it takes the discussion away from real issues such as suicide rates, homelessness, infant genital mutilation and so on.  It's very very effective, because it plays on the fact that almost all men, including MRAs are basically decent. And the social stigma of a public perception of hatred of women is painful. To overcome this tactic, it is necessary to discard a self image relying on consensus approval. Tough to do because we are social animals. But to disarm the attack of "you hate women" it's necessary to develop a strong self identity which takes no account of consensus conferral of approval. Be the "bad man", and let only your own internal compas of right and wrong guide you.

Really, John? Because I have something like 1200 posts on this blog here that would seem to suggest that, no, a lot of MRAs (and PUAs and MGOTWers) really, honestly, sincerely, and sometimes even proudly, hate women. (Ok, a certain percentage of my posts are actually about kitties, but still, I invite you to spend a month or so going through the archives, John; you may learn a thing or two.)

But, actually, there’s no need to take my word on the subject. Because if you really want to know why so many people think MRAs hate women, I invite you to take a look at and a listen to this video by a prominent MRA. Seems pretty obvious that this guy hates women, wouldn’t you agree?

Oh, by the way, this guy is you. [TRIGGER WARNING for people who are not John Hembling and who might be disturbed by a smirking asshole literally laughing about rape. Seriously. This is bad even by his standards.]

Oh, another by the way:  Hembling complained about feminists “doxing” him long after he made the video that was excerpted here in which he gave out his name. That’s right, he put his name out in his own video, then complained that feminists were violating his privacy and basically terrorizing him by ever mentioning his name. Until he started going by his real name again.

Before I go, here’s another particularly inane contribution to the Reddit discussion:

AloysiusC 6 points 3 days ago (9|3)  Many of the female feminists have deep inferiority issues about their gender and, instead of addressing those issues, they take the easy path by blaming the world which results in them seeing misogyny literally everywhere. Not just us, but all of society. Basically anything that isn't explicitly celebrating women triggers their misogyny alarm.  There's more to it.  Because they see it as a competition between the sexes (that's what an inferiority complex requires), they cannot handle anything positive being said about men. This too is, to them, misogyny.  Meanwhile many of the male feminists also deep down believe women are inferior but they're motivated by a sense of guilt - and they project their views onto other men. They simply can't imagine a man not seeing women as lesser creatures because that's how THEY feel deep down.  Because of these motivations, there will never be a way to be an MRA without getting misogyny accusations - no matter how much we walk on eggshells.

Huh. MRAs certainly have a most unusual way of “walking on eggshells.” Indeed, to this outside observer it looks a lot less like “walking on eggshells” and more like “angry toddler having an endless stompy tantrum.”

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Sean R. Moorhead
Sean R. Moorhead
8 years ago

(Oops, could I trouble a mod to edit my latest post so that the comments from other posters are in quote boxes? I don’t want to be mistaken for Mr. Energomash.)

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Sean (is it alright if we call you Sean?) — David’s the only mod here, so you might be better off reposting it all with quotes, or just adding a comment with the quotes in quotes or something.

And while we’re here. *waves* calling me Argenti is fine, and gender neutral pronouns for me (ze/zir), you?

velveteenrabidhoodie
8 years ago

OK, so, longtime lurker, rare poster.

Is it just me and my nearly OCD for details that noticed the weird artwork in the background of the video?

It totally looks like Amazon, bare-breasted women, and a small, alien-like man with his head hung low like he’s being subservient.

Kinda weird art for a guy who hates women. Unless, you know, deep down he wants women to smack him down and his spewage of womanhate is just his way if attaining that.

But, what do I know?

velveteenrabid
8 years ago

Did anyone else notice the strange artwork in the background of that video?

Kind of looks like bare-breasted Amazon women and a subservient, alien-like man (head hanging low and all) being led along.

I’d love to dig into the psychology behind his choice of art, you know, considering his womanhater status.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

“But i tell you this, without a bit of empathy from feminists (or other mens organisations), these men will keep hating women. They will keep doing what they are doing.”

Eh, a threat of sorts? So what if you’ve had a bad experience with women in the past? You believe in collective guilt? If one member of a demo has allegedly done you wrong, then the entire demo is responsible and should be treated as guilty? How fucking short-shited and immature does one have to be to leap to that conclusion.
“Make us the center of the universe, even at the expense of your own personal needs — or else! What? being a member of a minority comes with its own problems? Fuck you! You should think of my personal problems first!”

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Short-sighted, not short-shited. Heh, guess I’m thinking of shit lords.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

@Energomash

did you ever think about the reasons why SOME these men hate women?
The truth is, many have had bad experiences with women, be it their mothers, or girlfriends, wifes or co-workers etc.

And yet, if a woman has a bad experience with a man or men (including abuse and/or rape), and decides that she hates men, she’s a terrible misandrist bigot who should know that NAMALT.

Also, as others have said, MRAs have a very low bar for “bad experiences with women”. Some will tell you they’re being oppressed by women dressing attractively and not fucking them, so no, I don’t buy the “they have good reasons” line. They don’t have reasons, they have excuses.

Dvärghundspossen
Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

Ferrets: That secret law of attraction stuff sounds… pretty idiotic. Argenti: Hadn’t heard about that drug before, but you learn something new every day.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Gah, the Law of Attraction stuff. Victim-blaming for the cosmos.

sredni_vashtar
sredni_vashtar
8 years ago

guffaw-ferrets….i agree with your stance on this matter

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Having bad experiences with someone doesn’t actually justify misogyny.

Imagine if people tried to justify this in relation to any other prejudice. I once got sick on a flight and the flight attendant wasn’t all that helpful, therefore flight attendants shouldn’t be allowed to vote. This one restaurant once served me sashimi that was all gristly and weird, therefore it’s OK to beat up sushi chefs. My cab driver was kind of a creep, therefore if I see someone trying to rape a cabbie I won’t stop them.

MRAs, the ridiculous statements above are what you sound like when you try to justify misogyny as excusable because some men have had negative experiences with women.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Sean: Don’t sweat the blockquote monster–getting hazed by that PITA is just part of the initiation process ’round here, so welcome! We can generally figure out what needs to be quoted and what is your stuff.

Jessay (@jessay)
8 years ago

could someone sum up the video because I will literally loose my cool if I watch it. I’ve hit a brick wall with being able to tolerate watching misogynists rant smugly.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Summary – feminists on youtube talk about rape too much, therefore I am no longer able to care about rape and will walk right on past if I see it happening. It’s all your fault for being so uppity, bitches.

(Sprinkle liberally with Kubrick stare and laughter that sounds like a method actor trying to get into character for his upcoming role as a serial killer.)

katz
8 years ago

Gah, the Law of Attraction stuff. Victim-blaming for the cosmos.

The Law of Attraction is the worst. The Christian version is the prosperity gospel: Believe in Jesus hard enough and good stuff will happen to you. Therefore people who bad things happen to deserve it because they didn’t have enough faith.

It’s a very alluring idea because it appeals to that basic human confusion about why bad things happen, especially to people who don’t deserve it, and it promises a way to keep that bad stuff from happening to you. But it’s still a terrible, terrible idea with terrible, terrible implications.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

What’s funny about the prosperity gospel people is that I bet if you showed most of them a description of a traditional cargo cult without any mention of Jesus they’d be more than happy to condemn it as unrealistic.

marcilannister
marcilannister
8 years ago

Could someone please explain how to do block-quotes? I’m not really this newbish, I just have some odd gaps in my knowledge of the workings of the interwebs. It’s embarrassing, but I know you guys will be gentle.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

(blockquote) text (/blockquote)

but with the greater/less than pointy arrows instead of brackets.

Then prepare to be eaten by the Blockquote Monster.

Hey, don’t worry – I didn’t know how to do them till I started here, either.

marcilannister
marcilannister
8 years ago

Then prepare to be eaten by the Blockquote Monster.

Nom nom.

marcilannister
marcilannister
8 years ago

Ha! I knew that monster couldn’t resist.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Ooooh you temptress, you!

hrovitnir
hrovitnir
8 years ago

Argenti Aertheri | June 25, 2013 at 5:34 pm
DO NOT do it if you’re on, or where recently on, an SSRI (or probably most anti-depressants)…like, potentially fatal idea, serotonin syndrome is bad bad beans.

Bah humbug! *off to Google* (I have planned for ages to give it a go even though I know it doesn’t work so great with SSRIs because I seldom drink and don’t smoke anything; but it’s freaking expensive.)

… well, interestingly, while MAOIs are well established as causing serotonin syndrome with MDMA (or with SSRIs… or SSRIs alone), it seems serotonin syndrome from MDMA with SSRIs is uncommon.

SSRI bind at the same site as MDMA and have a higher affinity to the receptor site. So they stop it working well, or at all, and shouldn’t in theory cause an overload of serotonin. Of course, a big down when you have depression doesn’t seem like a good idea. But there are studies suggesting using SSRIs could help with that. 😛

I thought it was pretty interesting while that most government/medical sites stated that SSRIs and MDMA can give you serotonin syndrome, none of them have any support for this, so off to Google Scholar I went. I read a couple of pages of abstracts and none of them showed any link.

Not to say you shouldn’t err on the side of caution. But still, I’m obsessive like that. If anyone else is interested, here is Erowid (who spurred my interest) and some abstracts – I couldn’t find studies showing serotonin syndrome from SSRIs + MDMA:

“By blocking MDMA interactions with the serotonin transporter, SSRIs reduce the physiological and experiential effects of MDMA in humans and neurotoxicity in rodents.”
http://www.erowid.org/general/mentions/mentions_2001-10_nejm_response.shtml

“Substances that inhibit serotonin re-uptake are less likely to lead to life-threatening elevations in serotonin when used with ecstasy.”
http://anp.sagepub.com/content/41/8/649.short

Although methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA; ecstasy) can cause serotonin toxicity, SSRIs do not appear to increase serotonergic effects from such serotonergic amphetamines and may reduce neurotoxicity.”
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2007/187/6/serotonin-toxicity-practical-approach-diagnosis-and-treatment

“The serotonin syndrome occurs following the use of serotomimetic agents (serotonin reuptake inhibitors, tricyclic and tetracyclic an-tidepressants, tryptophan, 3,4–methylenedioxy-methamphetamine, dextromethorphan, meperidine, S-adenosylmethio-nine) alone or in combination with monoamine oxidase inhibitors.
http://www.neurology.org/content/45/2/219.short

This one shows a chart of agents that have been reported to show serotonin syndrome (MAOIs with a bunch of things, SSRIs alone, SSRIs with a bunch of things, possibly MDMA alone, not SSRIs and MDMA):
http://link.springer.com/static-content/lookinside/364/art%253A10.2165%252F00002018-199513020-00004/001.png

http://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00002018-199513020-00004

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
8 years ago

A cat bit me once, so now I hate cats and post all day on anti-cat message boards. And that’s real.

*glances around to see if anyone is buying it*

@hrovitnir

Is there anything that MAOIs don’t interact with? Those are v. high up on the List of Drugs That Scare Me.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Is there anything that MAOIs don’t interact with?”

Pineapples, cheese, wine. No wait, sorry, that’s things they interact with.

hrovitnir — huh, ok then. Guess I should amend my disclaimer to read as probably a bad idea, err on the side of safety and do your own research or just don’t do it.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Huh, looks like pineapples might be safe. As usual, erowid knows stuff.

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