Hey, hostile visitors! Do you have an opinion about, for example, Mary Koss’ rape research? Do you want to discuss it even though the topic has not actually come up by itself in any of the threads and none of my recent posts really have much to do with the specifics of anyone’s rape research? Well, from now on you can discuss it here with anyone who wishes to follow you to this thread.
Added bonus: If you continue to try to discuss it in other threads you’ll be banned!
This also applies to future derailers riding hobbyhorses of their own having nothing to do with Koss.
Happy discussing!
Note: If you wish to discuss the topics at hand, you know, topics directly related to my posts and/or to what other people are discussing and that aren’t, you know, personal hobbyhorses of yours that involve long screeds and various things that you’ve probably already cut and pasted into the comments sections of various other websites until you were banned from them for endless derailing and general asswipery, feel free to remain in the original threads.
Ah. I am more ambivilant about god now, as in maybe zie exists, maybe zie doesn’t, but way back then, I was like, absolutely convicted that hell existed.
@Argenti
So 2005-2009 there should’ve been 549~ Native American suicides right?
Here’s my issue — the raw numbers cannot possibly match. Either I fucked up the conversion from per 100,000 or something is amiss here.
Hang on, would about 550×5=2750 work better for you as a raw rate? (I’m not sure why you think 549 is obviously wrong, and suspect I missed something somewhere.)
Because 2005-2009 is 5 years, and these are presumably annual incidence rates. (Usually how CDC reports mortality data.)
Fade – I think of the religious ban on suicide being foul because threats of hellfire levelled against someone in deep distress (mentally or physically) are reprehensible. A god who can punish someone in that situation, and over the idea that he “owns” our lives and only he gets to say when we leave them … gah, it disgusts me.
Is that anything like how you feel about it?
*Felt about it, past tense, I see!
I’m… not sure. I’ve really changed how I see god since then, so I can’t tell.
Frankly, now my opinions re: god are “it doesn’t matter if zie exists, it matters who people who think that the existence of such a creature can justify or influence their actions act”
So thinking back on it, I would say those threats are reprehensible, but it’s a society that put me in a helpless position (teenagers do really not have good resources. my parents go-to reaction was to threaten to call the cops, which I thought would wind up with me in jail forever and not in control of my life, either), depression that made me hate my life, and men of god who tried to make it sound like i’d have no control even after I died, too.
If you take some of the bible literally, it does seem like god is awfully egotistical (like, why do we have to except him as our lord and savior? he’s immortal/omniscient w/e). Luckily, I have long since given up on reading the bible
I actually was debating whether to read it to examine christian ideology and figure out whether I’m still a christian or not. Or spork it, if it gets too bad
People need to fucking stop with this “suicide attempts are a cry for help” bullshit, by which they actually mean “people who unsuccessfully attempt suicide are lying liars who lie for attention.” Of all the extremely gross, baseless shit people say about suicide, this is probably the grossest. Where did that fucking meme even come from.
By the way, manu people who have attempted suicide do need help and support. That’s not a bad or a shameful thing. It doesn’t make them fakers. Ugh. UGH.
I’m with you on the important thing being what people do as a result of their beliefs. The Bible (like so many religious texts) is used far too much as a means of keeping power for a narrow group. Bleargh.
I found my curiosity about God/the creator was pretty much satisfied when Louis said, years ago, that the best he could come up with was “a consciousness, but not a personality.” That was enough to knock out any anthropomorphic images, which are the ones I mainly want to get away from.
Of course if one favours Ceiling Cat, it would be a personality but not very often a consciousness!
Wow! The insensitivity of this:
“I’ve often heard MRAs say that men commit suicide much more often than women. Feminists will then often counter that women attempt suicide more often than men, which is true. However, I might note that many suicide attempts are more cries for help than a genuine wish to die… could women do this much more often?”
Oh god, you don’t have to worry what a woman was thinking when she attempts suicide, ever — but you have permission to presume anything you wish — ’cause what a woman says or does doesn’t matter at face value. Because they’re from Venus and men are from Mars or whatever the fuck it is that people say when they’re trying to prove women are lesser beings.
OK. Read the thread, and all I can say is…Manboobz regulars are glorious. All hail Manbooz.
All hail our Dark Master
Aww kitteh, a little tabby wearing a cat hat! Lovely.
I’m so tempted to knit a cap like that. 😀
Took a while, but I think I’m caught up on this thread now.
@gnl
“White is not a consideration in hiring or promotions, black is.” and “disadvantaged blacks”
This is White privilege. It means that Whiteness is seen as the default setting. That if you hire a White person, so what? But if you hire a Black person, it is unusual, risky, and/or giving them an unfair advantage.
Others have covered the aspects of male privilege pretty well. Basically, male is considered default, and hiring women is unusual, risky, and/or giving them an unfair advantage.
Both of these cause Non-White men, White women, and Non-White women (with the lowest salaries of all), to be paid less, to be considered less valuable (in hiring, firing, and promotion), and to be taking jobs that belong to White Men.
*I know I am glossing over a lot of other axises (is that right?) of privilege.
“Removing access to birth control would rebalance.”
— What?? For the moment, men and women have different methods of birth control. But they both have access to birth control. (In Europe and North America, at least.)
If someone with a penis absolutely does not want to chance impregnating a person with a uterus, they can coat the penis in a water based spermicidal lubricant before putting on a condom. Ta-da! No sperm, no sperm jacking! In addition, they can ask their consenting partner to also use the water-based spermicidal lubricant. You know, just in case you suspect that the uterus-haver has poked holes in the condoms YOU brought (because you are super-responsible for your own sexual activity, and have decided you do not want to make offspring at this time). If they refuse to use these protective sexual methods, don’t have sex.
Also, be aware, pre-cum contains sperm. It is not the most vibrant and active sperm, but it can still cause pregnancy.
So gnl gets called out on his shit and he responds by accusing people of quote mining (it’s not quote mining when people quote what you actually fucking said and it doesn’t change the context), recommending a self-help book and being all “I only want to talk about race if I can use race to make it look like I’m right!”
I was expecting a meltdown, but I have to say the self help book thing was unexpected.
Also what’s with these guys complaining about not being able to bring their kids out without people thinking they’re pedophiles? Like how is that even a thing? In all the maybe thousands of times I’ve seen a guy out with a kid, the first thing that crossed my mind wasn’t “child molester looking for a target” but “that’s probably his kid.” Or depending on the guy’s age, his little brother or sister, or niece or nephew, or cousin.
The only situation where I could see myself thinking there was something wrong going on is if the guy was acting suspicious or something seemed amiss.
So how this is a thing, or why they’re so focused on it is beyond me.
I did once get the impression when I took my (then) toddler son to a café that at least one person there was thinking “poor guy, this must be the one time that he has access to his kid, because otherwise why would you take one to a café?”, but I have no actual evidence to support this. (In reality, I was getting him out of his heavily pregnant and increasingly frazzled mother’s way for a couple of hours).
Other than that, no – I’ve never had the slightest impression that anyone was thinking anything untoward about me going out with either or both of my kids. Even when I’m out with my daughter and the puppy, despite the classic pedophile come-on on my side of the Atlantic being “Hello, little girl, do you want to see some puppies?”. (as established by a famous “don’t talk to strangers” public information film from the Seventies).
“”The advocacy of MRA is limited. There are specific topics that we are trying to draw attention to.”
Such as?”
Equality in family courts. Equality in prison sentences. Equality in education. Equality in parental rights and responsibilities. The concept of “Privilege” translates to men are better off in all things in all ways at all times without exception, it is always better to be male. This is just bull shit. There are disadvantages to being male.
“Sorry typo. Eivind Berge I could save you the time, you will tell me he’s an outlier, but Elam has praised him, and you admit Elam counts, so he’s not as out there as all that.”
” I have emphatically stated that women cannot rape men nor sexually abuse boys.”
You have actually found a winner. This guy is just wrong. He is trying to shoehorn both men and women back into gender roles that failed 60 years ago now. He is denying that women have agency or that men have any value outside of a unit for production. He even clearly self identifies as MRA. I will have a post calling his bigotry out within a week. This guy meets all of the qualifications I asked for.
” I have to say the self help book thing was unexpected.”
Screaming about how stupid you are wouldn’t have done any good. Your not stupid, your just blinded by faith. You need to learn how to listen better, not get shouted down.
“Removing access to birth control would re balance”
MMM quote mine fun. Yes, I did say this. It was followed by it would be much better to take other actions. Removing access to birth control is a very bad idea. Balancing power though LPS or some other right for men would be much better than taking rights away from women. If the conversation is on women and only women then only women’s rights can be modified to correct imbalances. Include the rights of men in the conversation and there are many more options for achieving equality between men and women. How is this concept so hard that 12 hours worth of comments and people still don’t get it.
becausescience – given what so many MRAs are like when it comes to talking about pedophilia, my first thought is that if people side-eye them when they’re with their kids, there might be a reason for it. (See: Farrell, W, talking about how cool incest is, ‘cos daddy said so.) They hav a track record of complaining about the concept of the age of consent, after all.
Yeah, unfortunately I have this thing where I only listen to people whose ideas aren’t asinine.
And as far as men’s reproductive rights, men already have rights when it comes to deciding if they want to be a father. They have the right to wear a condom, and they have the right to get a vasectomy. A man already has options if he’s not ready to be a father or have more kids, but to you, that’s not enough and you think men should be able to opt out of responsibility for the kids they helped make.
@kittehserf: You mean the guys who think calling out creepy behavior is a bad thing might be giving people the creeps? I am shocked!*
*not shocked.
“Yeah, unfortunately I have this thing where I only listen to people whose ideas aren’t asinine.”
How do you know if the idea is asinine when you never listen in the first place?
“men already have rights when it comes to deciding if they want to be a father”
Some but not enough. Lets do a break down
Surgical Sterilization- either
Sex – consetual
condom – consentual
Birth control -women only
Plan B -women only
Abortion – women only
Parental abandonment – Women only
Adoption – consentual, but only if the woman tells the father about the child.
sorry, but I don’t see equality here. Either the choices to have sex and use a condom are enough that people have made the choice to be parents. OR these are not enough choices. Should people have more choices?
Since women are the ones who have to go through pregnancy and childbirth, and therefore by definition take far greater risks whenever they have sex that the process might have life-altering consequences, I have no problem at all with the notion that they get more say in the birth control process – even if this means aborting a fetus without the father’s consent.
Not least because the mere fact that such a decision has been taken in such circumstances suggests that the relationship possibly wasn’t that solid to begin with – and certainly not strong enough to withstand the colossal physical and emotional strain of raising a child.
@gnl So wear a condom, or do something different from piv sex. Honestly, are you positing this as a real injustice?
When you risk your life in pregnancy and childbirth, notgenderneutralatall, you can whine about it. Until then, STFU.
Gotta love the MRM. One minute it’s a bunch of cis dudes sitting around telling women “I can’t stop once we’ve initiated penetrative sex because BIOLOGY” or “one of you has to sleep with me to prevent me from becoming a serial killer because BIOLOGY” or “not having sex after I’ve paid for a woman’s dinner feels as bad for me as rape feels for women because BIOLOGY.” Next minute, it’s a bunch of cis dudes complaining about how they can’t have abortions. Misandry!!1!
Reeeeeaaaaaaaally? For serious? Men are just completely incapable of parental abandonment? Because our great and wonderful child support system works all the time?
http://singleparents.about.com/od/statebystateresources/p/child_support_statistics.htm
Hmmm. Seems parental abandonment totally is an option for men. And this is something that is… obvious. And to claim otherwise is, well,… it’s almost like you were trying to stack that deck against women.
Haha, that’s just silly, I’m sure you’re totally arguing in good faith.