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antifeminism misandry misogyny MRA paul elam threats violence against men/women

Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists

A Voice for Men, one of the most influential and popular Men’s Rights websites, is now offering a $1000 “bounty” for anyone able to track down the personal information of several Swedish women involved in a tasteless video advertising a theater production based on Valarie Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. As the anonymous poster calling himself John the Other – the second-in-command at AVfM – put it in a posting yesterday (emphasis in original):

We are asking for the full legal names, home addresses, places of employment, email addresses and contact phone numbers of the women and man who produced and starred in the video described above. We will pay 1000 dollars to any individual who provides and confirms this information, to be paid either directly to themselves or to a charity of their choice.

John explains that this information will be posted on the AVfM-affiliated site Register-Her.com, an “offenders database” that is being used to vilify individual feminists and “Fuck Their Shit Up,” as AVfM head honcho Paul Elam likes to put it. John notes that Regsiter-Her.com also intends to post the “government identification numbers [and] drivers licences” of the women they are able to identify.

John admits plainly that posting such information may put the physical safety of these women at risk from vigilante violence. As he puts it (emphasis mine):

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

The comments posted on the article at AVfM suggest that such “retributive” violence is a real possibility. Indeed, here’s the very first comment (which currently has 17 upvotes from readers of the site):

A commenter called  Xnomolos, in another upvoted comment, adds:

i would love to hunt down these women myself.

JinnBottle responds to this comment by advising “all men to start carrying guns.”

The commenters on AVfM have already uncovered the identities of all of the women involved in the video. The blogger Fidelbogen has been the most active internet detective so far.

There is no question that the video itself is offensive, and designed to provoke. You can see it here; I’m not going to embed it on this site. If you don’t want to watch it: it depicts a young woman shooting a man in the head for no reason. Afterwards the woman and her gleeful, giggling accomplices do a victory dance, then lick the blood from the dead man’s head. A message at the end urges viewers to “Do Your Part.”

Every feminist I know who has seen the video has been appalled by it. I’m appalled by it. It’s hateful, and it’s wrong.

But John the Other, and the other commenters on AVfM, claim that it is more than this: that that the video of the staged murder, intended to provide publicity for a theater production based on Solanas’ notorious SCUM manifesto, is quite literally an open call for the murder of men. As John the Other puts it:

Open advocation of murder cannot be allowed in a civil society, without that society devolving into a culture of brutal violence.

Evidently he has no problem with, or has somehow not noticed, the comments on AVfM fantasizing about shooting and killing the women involved in the video.

Is the video a literal call to murder? Is it, as one AVfM commenter puts it, evidence of a “conspiracy to commit mass murder?” No. Violence and murder have been dramatized in the theater since its beginnings. No one accuses Sophocles of advocating fratricide and incest, though both are dealt with in his play Oedipus Rex. No one accuses Shakespeare of advocating mass murder, though many of his most famous plays have body counts that put many horror films to shame.

Does the tag line at the end of the video – “do your part” – transform the video from a depiction of murder  into an open call for it? No. The “threat,” such as it is, is vague; it’s not aimed at any specific individuals. It might be seen as akin to someone wearing a t-shirt that says “kill ‘em all, let God sort them out” – tasteless and offensive, but not a literal threat.  “Kill ‘Em All” is actually the name of Metallica’s first album. While a lot of people see James Hetfield,  Lars Ulrich et al as pompous idiots, they have not been jailed for conspiracy to commit mass murder. That would be ridiculous.

Someone claiming to have been involved in the SCUM-inspired theatrical production in question has posted several detailed comments on AVfM, explaining that those involved in the production are “not out to get you” and that the video itself was “meant as a viral “wtf?!” to give attention to both the questions that it raises and the play itself.”

By contrast, AVfM is targeting specific individuals, and intends to offer information that would allow anyone intent on doing them harm to quite literally track them to their homes and workplaces. Those fantasizing about killing these woman are not simply making a joke along the lines of “women, can’t live with ‘em; can’t kill ‘em.” They are fantasizing about killing real people, and providing would-be evil-doers maps to their doors.

AVfM is an American site, in English; these specific women live in Sweden. While it is a real possibility, it seems unlikely that anyone reading the site will literally find and murder any of those involved in the SCUM production. At least I hope that this does not come to pass.

I don’t believe that either Paul Elam or John the Other literally wants any feminist to be killed. The real intent behind AVfM’s publishing people’s personal information, it seems clear, is to intimidate feminist writers and activists into shutting up, to make clear that if they post something that offends the internet vigilantes at AVfM they will face the possibility of some deranged individual quite literally showing up at their door intent on doing them harm.

Paul Elam and John the Other claim that they’re not advocating violence. But they are playing a dangerous game here. If some deranged individual, inspired by the hyperbolic anti-feminist rhetoric on AVfM, and armed with information provided by “Register-Her.com,” murders or otherwise harms a feminist blogger or activist or video maker, Elam and his enablers will have blood on their hands. As will those MRAs who continue to publicly support and/or link to AVfM and/or Register-Her.com.

This is not the way a legitimate rights group deals with those who disagree with them. This is what hate groups do.

885 replies on “Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists”

*puts feet up to watch the chaos, cracks beer*

You know, for a guy so aloof and non-partisan, Brandon spends a lot of time and energy defending male privilege and trying to keep them durn wymynz from gettin’ too uppity!

I will defend a man because he probably has an understanding of loyalty, honor and pride.

I wasn’t aware that these traits were marked “men only.” Huh.

Your world is very, very sad, Brandon.

Amused, I want a link. How the heck did I miss *this*?

Molly, I’ll try to find it. In one of his comments yesterday, he said that he respects things without penises, such as nature, wild animals and women who aren’t feminists.

Of course you’d take care of them. After the paternity test, that is.

Don’t forget, for a man like Brandon, “taking care of a child” means an occasional soccer game once the child is old enough not to be a nuisance, plus nasty comments on the “nature of women”. Midnight feedings and changing poopy diapers? Not on your life.

You know, fuck it. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. I am tired of explaining it.

You mean you know you have no argument? Admitting you have a problem is the first step toward getting help.

It’s also creepy that you want Ashley to work to make her strong and independent, instead of, you know, because the family needs the money. That’s infantilizing. It’s paternalistic.

And it’s a great example of how you don’t believe in equal treatment, because I imagine you’d throw quite the shitfit if Ashley started telling you that you had to stay home with the kids because it would make you a more sensitive and understanding man, it’s not about needing childcare, it’s for your own good sweetie.

Ashley can’t be a stay at home mom, but I bet you she’s doing all the household cleaning and diaper-changing when they both get home from work.

men were dragged away from their home to go die for “god and country” while women basically stayed home, safe and away from the bullets whizzing around men’s heads.

The Second World War is your example of this? The war that’s seen the most civilian casualties in history? That war?

lol nope

I wont let Ashley stay at home if we did have kids. She needs to be able to provide for herself without relying 100% on me.

That makes her strong and independent.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, and Ashley (“Ashley”) doing whatever I goddamn tell her to is independence. THANKS, MINISTRY OF BRANDON

“Just come out and admit it: You just hate men. And you feel the need to diminish everything they do. From building businesses to inventing something to dying to protect their families.”

u mad?

Men’s choice = work or be homeless

My boyfriend isn’t working because he’s got severe Asperger’s and epilepsy. Maybe he won’t ever be able to get a job, despite his intelligence, because his CV sucks. I support him with what I make as a grad student. Care to talk to us about our lives? OF COURSE NOT

I love how Brandon’s so super above it all until we actually start getting to him and then INTERNET RAAAAAGE XD

Ahahah, I didn’t catch this:
I wont let Ashley stay at home if we did have kids. She needs to be able to provide for herself without relying 100% on me.
So.
Ashley needs to not rely on you. In fact, she needs to be so financially independent of you that you will never marry her. She’ll be supporting herself while she raises your children. Because she’ll also have to raise the kids, she won’t advance as far in her job as she otherwise would have, so she may never make as much as you do. But because you’re not married she won’t even have a claim on your property.

This may not be sex slavery, but it’s in the same zip code. Brofive.

Ya, I don’t really get mad. And I am certainly not getting into a big huff arguing with feminists. I think it is funny that some of you think I am mashing on my keyboard yelling at my monitor.

Also, I do my own cleaning, laundry and household chores. This is due to the fact that Ashley doesn’t live with me. She has her place and I have mine. So the notion that she is my chore slave is just funny because it isn’t even in the same realm what is true.

@Voip: So two financially independent sharing parenting responsibility is now sex slavery?

So you as one individual are bucking trends and taking care of your boyfriend, that’s nice. But that is not the general trend in society.

@Holly: I used “strong and independent” because it it often something feminists chant. I was actually subtly making fun of feminism. But whatever.

My main reasons for Ashley to work are:

1) I want a girlfriend that is self sufficient or close to it
2) I don’t want to be the provider
3) She should contribute financially to the household
4) Her leaving the workforce will stall her earning potential

“I was actually subtly making fun of feminism.”

See, your first mistake was thinking that you’re capable of subtlety.

I note he didn’t challenge the notion that Ashley would be the one doing all the child-rearing.

He’s backed off of a LOT of claims, very quietly. Women don’t get drafted? (Protip, Brandon: Don’t make absolutes about human history and culture. You will probably be wrong). Vanished into the aether, rather than a concession of wrongness. “I TOTALLY MEANT THAT WESTERN WOMEN HAVE IT EASY COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLd”? Gone. XD

@Rutee: So there was a few societies that drafted women. That doesn’t change the fact that there has 1) never been a society that ONLY drafted women and 2) there have been and are societies that ONLY draft men.

I’m officially bored to death of the Brandon Show Starring Brandon (special guest star: Ashley The Ever-Compliant!) now.

Can we have some designated thread that’s called “Post about the draft, stay-at-home moms, VAWA, Title IX, how men and women Just Are, and all other completely fucking random opinions here and not on posts that are actually about things“? And we’d let it get to 5000 pages of comments and it would just keep all this crap in one place.

@Rutee: So there was a few societies that drafted women. That doesn’t change the fact that there has 1) never been a society that ONLY drafted women and 2) there have been and are societies that ONLY draft men.

And every society I’m familiar with with ANY sort of conscription policy still heavily favors men.

Even the ones that conscript women, like Israel or the Soviet Union. And again, women die in *childbirth*, so it’s not as if men get a remotely sole claim to ‘blood, sacrifice, and tears’.

@Rutee: If you think being forced to go kill people “favors men”, then something much more important needs to be discussed first. And that is why do you think that forcing men to go fight and die is actually a favor.

Yeah, she totally meant that killing people is an honor, not that men who are drafted still have more policies working to their advantage than drafted women do.

@Laura: So because men “allegedly” make $1.22 to every $1 a woman makes, that makes it ok that women don’t have to go die for there country?

Hell, if men are the only ones that have the “honor and privilege” of signing up for selective service and getting drafted, then giving them 22 cents more seems like a pretty shitty way to thank them for that. But this is America…we treat our veterans like crap.

@Rutee: If you think being forced to go kill people “favors men”, then something much more important needs to be discussed first. And that is why do you think that forcing men to go fight and die is actually a favor.

Putting aside that this is a phantom disadvantage in the developed world (Spoiler Alert: You’re not getting drafted unless you’re Israeli, and Israel drafts women too), historically this is a deal that benefits men. Let’s put aside that barring financial crises, soldiers got paid well for their status, and given free board…

Men had rights. Women did not. You win. Period. There is a historically brief period of time wherein women had rights and a draft was possible, but women still had substantially fewer rights, And this period is marked by a drastic decrease in the amount of war.overall, and by extension drafts, as global economies kind of get wrecked by it.

“@Laura: So because men “allegedly” make $1.22 to every $1 a woman makes, that makes it ok that women don’t have to go die for there country?”

That is so not what I just said. Are you illiterate or just a fucking idiot?

@Brandon: I mean holding women to exactly the same standards that men are held too. Fair is fair.

Having a flashback to the huge discussion where Pecunium kicked your ass about standards in the military, and you were all ok for different standards for differently aged men, and blah blah not girlz they can’t carry backpacks.

Please tell me you’re not going to sail in on that failboat again, pleaaaaasse!

“Equal” in the context of social justice is not the same as the mathemtical “the same.”

Google “potty parity.”

Women in big public spaces (symphony halls, movie theatres, sports stadiums) need twice as many stalls as men do to have equal access to bathrooms–otherwise they’re spending twice to three times as much time in lines when the men’s room doesn’t have any, because yes surprise there are differences in how women pee and what they have to do to pee and how often they have children etc.

The same applies to disability access: treating somebody in a wheelchair THE SAME WAY as somebody with two working legs and no other mobility impairments is UNEQUAL and UNFAIR.

Therefore, there has to be appropriate accomodation to allow equal access.

But anybody who is bleating “treat everybody the same” is probably too pigstubbornignorant to understand these subtle distinctions that are out there.

@Rutee: Soldiers paid well?! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! A teacher makes more than most soldiers.

Ya, cause we didn’t have the Vietnam war. While a draft would be a very difficult sell, I wouldn’t put it past our shitty government to implement one. Hell…they have a massive list of all men aged 18-34.

You forget that most of the time men and women didn’t have any rights…The ruling elite ruled my men and their families ruled over everyone. So a wealthy woman had far more rights than a male peasant.

Potty parity? Are you fucking kidding me?

Women need more toilets because they can’t pee as fast as men. WAH WAH WAH I am a woman and it takes me SOOOO LONG TO PEE..,

You don’t need more toilets, you need to learn to pee faster. Also out of everything that people have to go through…waiting in line to urinate is pretty much at the bottom of “how society is oppressing me”.

Ah social justice. The idea that some people in the past made life worse for others and their relatives should be held responsible for that mistreatment.

http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2011/08/23/social-justice-101-noh

He is NWO Jr.

I’m all for giving these assholes their own thread, or a Thanksgiving Miracle of Bannination. I think we’d do OK arguing without them, there’s always a new tedious jerkoff to take their places.

BTW, Brandon, learn the whole they’re/there/their thing. You look even dumber than when you say “ya.” Yeah, I just schoolmarmed you, fuck off.

Ithilliana, have I told you just how much I adore you? 🙂

Brandon, you’re not just an idiot. You’re an idiot with delusions of grandeur. You honestly believe that you are so superior to everyone around you that you can never possibly learn just how little of a special snowflake you are. It’d be sad if you weren’t such an unsympathetic asshole.

A teacher also has two degrees-I would certainly hope they would be paid for the level of education they have obtained. Pecunium and the rest of us also butchered your absent logic on the draft issue a long time ago. Do we really need to point out to you why you are wrong again?

And if you cannot figure out why she was using that as an example of having equality not mean equality in numbers, then you really are stupid beyond the vast amount of evidence we have Brandon.

@Brandon: Do me a favor. Borrow a pair of Ashley’s tights or panty hose (if she doesn’t wear any, go buy some). Put them on. Put on heels, and a tight skirt, or a long flowing dress, and carry a big purse. And then have her time how long it takes you to pee (you have to sit down, no standing at urinal).

THen we’ll talk.

And you might be surprised to know that the potty parity is being used all over.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/05/lawmakers_ponder_potty_parity.html

My mother remember working on the Seattle waterfront during World War II when there were NO bathrooms for women because wow, women didn’t work outside the house.

Now, there are more public bathrooms (oh YA and family bathrooms for men with girl children, and women with boy children, rather than dragging the poor kids along with the adult, and bathrooms with equal access for people with disabilities) so more people can pee in public.

ALternately, pretend that there are no men’s rooms where you work and go a day without peeing, or having to go outside to find one, and then we’ll talk.

Because you are showing your misogyny more and more and more.

*wishing bladder infections on you in future too*

@hellkell: Back atcha! *smooches*

Right now I’m taking breaks between grading papers because after a few doses of our trollz, I am much more appreciative of my students’ rough drafts. So, see, they are serving a useful purpose!

@Laura: I actually don’t think I am that special. I don’t think society should cater to me. I pretty much think that I am just like most other men that are walking around the earth.

However, I do think feminists think they are special little snowflakes that think they should change society because something annoys them. They feel the need to tell people how they should live their lives.

Again, most of my animosity is towards feminists and feminism. I do not have the same animosity towards women in general. Basically, if you say you are a feminist, I treat you like the piece of shit that you are. I would do the same to a Nazi or a member of the KKK.

@Rutee: Soldiers paid well?! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! A teacher makes more than most soldiers.

“For their status”. A soldier is a 0 education job, a teacher is a 4 year degree, currently. Though note, I said *historically*, as in “At periods that aren’t this very second”, you illiterate dunderhead.

While a draft would be a very difficult sell, I wouldn’t put it past our shitty government to implement one.

We’ve been over this before, you twit. They can’t pass taxes for our current branch of imperialistic wars. They can’t have a draft. If you can’t get a tax, you can’t get a draft.

You forget that most of the time men and women didn’t have any rights…The ruling elite ruled my men and their families ruled over everyone,

I didn’t ‘forget’. This is just bullshit you learned from your sorry ass high school education*. It’s simply inaccurate for so many human societies, even the ones you think it applies to (Hint: Village councils, chosen by the villlagers, wielded substantial political power in what you think was “Feudal” Europe).

But I don’t just mean outright political power. Let’s take (hellenistic) greece, which you oh so skillfully claimed was an example of female privilege in ‘sitting on their ass’ (Moron, btw). In Ancient Greece, even non-property holders had rights… …if they were men. Women were more or less possessions.

@Elizabeth: I would gladly treat women as equals..,feminists are just getting in my way of doing that.

Again, most of my animosity is towards feminists and feminism. I do not have the same animosity towards women in general. Basically, if you say you are a feminist, I treat you like the piece of shit that you are. I would do the same to a Nazi or a member of the KKK.

… as opposed to women in general, whom you would videotape without their consent should they be foolish enough to have sex with you.

I think that issue came up during the Nuremberg trials. Freaking Nazis wanted just as many toilets for Jews as for regular Germans. Fuck those guys.

You don’t think you’re special? Could have fooled… well, all of us. Every word you write drips with how special you think you are.

You certainly wanted feminism to cater to you before. I think you wanted to be LIKE A BOSS, in fact.

Alas, in reality, you’re just another misogynist piece of shit. Guys like you are a dime a dozen, unfortunately.

Oh, snap, Feminazi!

What a stunningly original term, Brandon!

You are SOOOOOOOO clever, you big clever man you!

And you say you’re not a misogynist, ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

*bored now going back to student papers*

@hellkell: Well at least most women don’t label themselves as feminists…so too each their own.

I love it every time a woman says “I believe in equality…but I am not a feminist”. It gives me hope that maybe feminism will die soon.

It must be hard getting men to join your group when even women don’t want to be apart of it.

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