The general line amongst manosphere misogynists is that American women are a bunch of stuck-up princesses whose “ginas” – that is, vaginas – tingle only in the presence of “thugs” and “alpha males.” But one YouTube ranter calling himself LogicJunkie has a somewhat different theory, as he recently explained in a note to the moderator of the Happier Abroad forums. American women, it turns out, are basically all Nazis at heart, “preoccupied with … eugenic perfection in males.” Let’s follow LogicJunkie’s, er, logic:
American females regard as a “creep” any guy who isn’t at least six feet tall, with a pronounced chin, a jock physique, and, in general, Ken doll good Aryan looks. And money is important, too, but not nearly as important as the physiological eugenics. So, in good Germanic fashion, I think what they’re mainly concerned about, is somehow being contaminated by the mere presence of the inferior. …
America is, now more than ever, a Germano-eugenicist death camp, wrapped in the facade of “capitalism” and “corporatism” and “pop culture” and blah, blah, blah. But it’s all about covertly advancing the genetic omnipresence of the Teutonic physiological ideal.
I hate to poop on LogicJunkie’s logic here but, dude, if all the women you’re meeting turn out to be eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis, it does not therefore follow that all American women are eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis. It may just mean you should stop cruising for chicks at Klan meetings.
424 replies on “Desperately Seeking Übermenschen”
@Capt Bathrobe.
No, it really shouldn’t have.
“People who have better access to nutrition and medical care often end up taller than their peers. Social mobility in the US being what it is, CEOs and other high paid people are almost exclusively born and raised upperclass.”
ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Height is at LEAST 70% genetics, and furthermore, nutrition only really comes into play if you’re severely malnourished. Middle- and even upper-lower-classes get plenty of nutrition to maximize their height. Heightism is a major force of prejudice nowadays.
Just in case our young friend does develop self- awareness, here are the links to mental health resources:
Locate Free/Low-Cost/Sliding-Scale Clinics:
Locate therapists, use keyword “sliding scale”
Locate mental health services nationwide
MRAL, you should still speak to a professional, but you can get started on the process without even leaving the house here:
fyi, I’d rather be a tall black guy than a short ugly white guy, so I actually think heightism trumps racism.
OK, Felix, I was trying to be nice. 🙂 Still I don’t think MRAL is stupid so much as tenaciously wrong-headed and unwilling to examine his assumptions.
Of course, then there’s this:
fyi, I’d rather be a tall black guy than a short ugly white guy, so I actually think heightism trumps racism.
I don’t thing there’s even a word for that much fail.
ps if I was magically transformed into a young Denzel Washington I probably wouldn’t be “such an asshole.” (I prefer to think of myself as a realist and righteously angry).
Leaving aside the fact that your own personal preferences and self-hatred actually has no bearing on the state of prejudice in society…
fyi, I’d rather be a tall black guy than a short ugly white guy
Even a tall ugly black guy with a shitty personality?
Maybe you should start a support group for guys with shitty personalities, where you can all complain about how prejudiced society is toward awful, boring, hateful, bitter, shitty people. I have a theory that there would be a huge overlap between that group and the MRM, and what you talked about would be very similar, but whatever. It might help focus your unearned anger in a new direction, anyway. Or maybe not. Maybe just in the exact same direction.
I’d really like to hear an argument that heightism is not a concern which doesn’t involve “Well 50 years ago racism was worse.” We’re talking about NOW, not the past, so shut the fuck up.
People keep telling me to “work on my personality” for the benefit of women, which is hard when you get spit on by pretty much every entitled $^%#%@$^&$$#%@$#$$%@ you meet.
I do have money, because I’m not a lazy fat fuck and I work, and my parents have money too because they’re not fat lazy fucks and they work. But I see no point in therapy, because therapy can’t change the world.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, MRAL. I think you should work on your personality for the benefit of yourself.
Alternatively, I think you should stop blaming other people (people hate me because I’m slightly shorter than other people!) for things under your own control that drive people away from you (like your shitty personality). And actually, what I think you should or shouldn’t do is kind of beside the point. Just trying to keep it real, man.
I’m your height, MRAL, and I think racism is still a wee bit more of a problem. Short guys don’t get harassed by cops for driving the wrong car in the wrong neighborhood. Short guys don’t face nearly the same problem that African Americans face in finding employment. There aren’t whole organizations devoted to hating on short guys. Short guys aren’t routinely blamed for problems like crime, poverty, and drug abuse. Short guys aren’t specifically targeted by law enforcement. And the proportion of short guys in prison is not, to my knowledge, significantly larger than that of the general population.
Yeah, being short can be a disadvantage in dating. It was discouraging, when I was single, to read all those personal ads specifying 6’+ as the most important criterion. But it’s really not the worst form of discrimination in the world. Get some perspective, please.
Besides, how you define “getting spit on?” Are women literally spitting on you? Or are they just, you know, refusing to go out with you?
because therapy can’t change the world.
It can change you, but only if you’re willing. Right now it appears that you’re not ready. Ten years down the road, when the MRM fails to deliver on its promises, you may choose to reconsider. Or not. It is, after all, your life.
I think heightism is more subtle than racism. You’ve got some flaming racists out there, but I think political correctness has a kind of stranglehold on the issue for everyone else. Most people aren’t racists.
Since heightism is never discussed, I think the VAST MAJORITY of men above about 5’10 or so are heightists. They instinctively think they’re better than you, even if they can’t verbalize it. For the *$^#^@*$%%^@&@*es, they wouldn’t even give men below 6’billion a chance (so much for “personality”).
Besides, my status as a mutant freak is a bigger deal than my height. The height is just the shit topping.
Ok, I have been lurking around this site for weeks (maybe months) now, and I love it! I have refrained from posting mostly because everything I would want to add to the conversation has already been stated by numerous people as well as the fact that the resident MRA’s on the site rarely, if ever, respond to an actual argument and are generally wrong with their factual assertions, which leads me to believe that they are either deliberately trying to mislead people into following in their path, or they are deliberately maintaining their ignorance.
I would like to say first that I do believe there are areas in which a men’s rights movement could genuinely do some good. For instance, I think that the rate of prison rape is unacceptable and that is an issue that mostly affects men. However, I think it is despicable that a group of men who claim to be devoted to the betterment of their sex and to fighting for men’s rights do little more than sit around on the internet to bitch and moan about evil women. It strikes me that people who have legitimate concerns and a real desire to make changes do more than post anonymously on online forums. You want to change real problems facing men? Then get off your computer and find a way to actually change something!
And MRAL, seriously, I have been reading your comments for a while know. I understand that you feel like you have been dealt a shitty hand in life, but it may be time to actually sit down and think about the people who treat you badly and why that is. You claim that it is your height and messed up eye. The thing is, while it may be true that people find your appearance initially off-putting and that taller, more attractive people, have an easier time in life, it is also true that many short and physically unattractive lead very happy and successful lives, full of love. From the way you speak (well, technically write), you appear to be a relatively intelligent young man who was probably picked on in high school, thought things would get better in college, and haven’t yet found that group of people who accepts you. But you are awfully bitter for such a young person, and I have to ask, what is all of this anger, bitterness, and resentment getting you? Are you really making yourself happy by classifying people into groups that “prove” they are superior to you? Do you see happiness in your future brought to you by a movement with no stated way of achieving a goal? Is it possible that some of your anger is displaced? I ask this last question because you frequently spout off about how poorly the “Alpha” and “Beta” males treat you, but you place all of your anger and hatred squarely at the feet of women.
Anyway, as with the rest of the female posters on this site, I anticipate that you will promptly ignore everything I have said and chalk it up to the fact that I am an evil woman, and that is your choice. But I sincerely hope that someday you choose to live a happier life.
Besides, my status as a mutant freak is a bigger deal than my height. The height is just the shit topping.
No sympathy. I’ve known ugly motherfuckers who had no problems meeting women and getting in relationships–in fact they were far more successful than I (which is admittedly not saying much).
Actually, MRAL, I’m glad about this discussion, because it’s given me time to think about all the times I’ve blamed someone other than myself for my problems, and what a counter-productive waste of time it is. For that, you have my sincere thanks.
“People keep telling me to “work on my personality” for the benefit of women,”
Well, it IS women’s opinion you’re primarily concerned with, is it not?
“which is hard when you get spit on by pretty much every entitled $^%#%@$^&$$#%@$#$$%@ you meet.
Well, then, stop hitting on “entitled $^%#%@$^&$$#%@$#$$%@”s all the time.
LOL, I’m not asking for sympathy, posting on the femiasshole site Man Boobz is pretty much the worst place to do that. I’m presenting my case for the Greek system and why it needs to be dismantled, and the MRM has promised to do that.
AMRAL
Yes, MRAL, there are some women that won’t go out with guys shorter than them. You yourself have said that you wouldn’t consider going out with a woman that was fat. We all have our preferences, and if somebody doesn’t want to go out with you for any reason, well, why would you want to force them to? Don’t you want a relationship with someone who could actually like you for who you are?
But, I get the feeling you hate yourself so much that you don’t believe anyone could actually like you for ‘who you are.’ So, instead of dealing with your own low self esteem, you lash out at others that have committed no particular crime against you. And so, you create a self-fulfilling prophecy by being so unpleasant and bitter that nobody likes you.
I don’t have a problem with working on my personality for women, I’m just saying it’s difficult when BI%$^@TCHES won’t let you get within arm’s length to show them “your personality” unless you’re Brad Pitt
“If only all these BITCHES would see what a NICE GUY I am!”
Do you realize how that sounds?
MRAL – one more thing. You say that you look to the MRM to “dismantle” the greek system, correct? Except, that isn’t really what you want. You want it dismantled for men, sure, but you are perfectly comfortable with the system as it exists for women, no? I mean, your true concern with all of this is that the attractive women wont sleep with you, and you want a better chance. However, you have also said that what you want, as opposed to us fem-B*tches, is equality. Except F*ck those fat-omega b*tches, right? Because they are the lowest of the low and don’t actually deserve equal access to a good bang. Your argument is inherently inconsistent. Maybe that is why no one here supports it?
Also, how is the MRM going to “change” this system? Am I suddenly going to have no control over who I have sex with? Or are you going to redefine what is attractive? If you are going to redefine what is attractive, how are you going to do that? I’m just curious.
the MRM has promised to do that.
How, though, how? What’s the plan? I’d want to see a prospectus, at least.
Seriously, assuming that it’s even a valid way to see the world, how does the MRM propose to dismantle the Greek system? How do they propose to get “Alpha” women to date “Omega” men?
In other words, how do you know that they’re not just appealing to your sense of resentment in order to sell you a bunch of bullshit?
Wow, Rachel, great minds really do think alike–and simultaneously.
Well… ok, maybe the MRM is full of shit. But so what? They’re the only group that really gives a shit about, understands, or cares about omega males and their problems. Femiassholes, their biggest critics, certainly don’t. So even if there is no change brought about my the MRM, they’re the only option.
The MRM is unnecessary for “dismantling the Greek system” which is a system that doesn’t even effing exist except in your own bigoted mind.
And as for needing to be Brad Pitt to get a date, also fiction. Here is a story of a “modern-day Quasimodo,” a man who was an ugly little dwarf who lived in N’Orleans who married twice and had children and was known for his love of music. He was described as “fine, noble, good, and brave.” READ THIS STORY and take it to heart.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/Louisiana/_Texts/LHQ/2/3/Quasimodo*.html
To be clear, I support equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOME. Therefore, heightism and racism and misandry are a problem, because you are born fat or ugly or male or with a deformed eye. All I want is the same OPPORTUNITY as hot or even normal men, and if I fail, then I know it’s my own fault.
Fatphobia, I could give a shit about, because fatness is preventable, and I still believe that despite the weak excuses offered up here.
MRAL – do you really believe that’s true? That “femiassholes” (I really enjoy the made up words, btw, so creative) don’t care or understand? I mean, you yourself have pointed out that there are omega-women, and I am going to go out an limb here and suggest that maybe those women have faced ridicule in their lives for the way they look (like, you know, people calling them fat, lazy, and worthless or undeserving of love and affection), so it seems that there are women out there who understand.
In addition, go back and read the comments people write to you here. Maybe you don’t pick up on it, but people who you have never met appear to be genuinely concerned for your mental health and self-esteem.
Also, the MRM isn’t the only option, even if us feminists don’t cut it. There are a lot of ways to deal with anger and hostility other than finding a group of angry hostile people to further rile you up and make you hate 1/2 of the worlds population. Again, if you want change in society, how are you yourself going to bring it about?
“They’re the only group that really gives a shit about, understands, or cares about omega males and their problems.”
They don’t care about you or your problems. Many of them are too busy whining about how their wives took them for a ride in divorce court and how it’s a human rights violation for them to have to pay child support (which, if they refuse to pay, falls to you. Nice, huh?).
“All I want is the same OPPORTUNITY as hot or even normal men, and if I fail, then I know it’s my own fault.”
How is it not your own fault anyhow? And how do you presume to legislate the authority to force women to give you the same romantic shot at them as they give men of their personal preference? Do you think you can get the law to force women to find you attractive or to like you as a person?
Is your self esteem that low that you’d prefer the attentions of a woman who was required to give you a shot because the legal system mandated it, not because she really wanted to be there?
“Fatphobia, I could give a shit about, because fatness is preventable, and I still believe that despite the weak excuses offered up here.”
With the number of objections you raise against fat women, one can only come to the conclusion that you desperately want one of your own – sort of like homophobes tend to be closeted gays. And that your bitterness stems from the fact that not even THEY want you.
MRAL – equal opportunity? I agree, everyone should have equal opportunity to succeed in life. But we don’t all have it. Seriously, it sucks. I get it. Some people are born beautiful and make better first impressions on others. Some people are born with a naturally higher IQ. Some people are born into money, opening up doors that I can hardly imagine. The great thing is, we are all born with issues to overcome. If you want to be successful, overcome yours. That’s what the rest of the people in the world do. And no, I don’t mean you should magically grow taller or fix your eye, I mean work with what you got. So your eye is messed up. Big deal. Learn to attract people with your intelligence or with your personality or with your smile or with your ass or with all of the other attributes everyone has. I don’t know, it just seems like you hate your life by you are actively avoiding doing anything to change it other than bitching on here.
That’s the thing about women in the Greek system, only fat women are omega women. It’s easy as hell for women to be beta, you just have to be not fat. And as established being a beta is bearable. Since I don’t care about fat women, I don’t care about the Greek system in regards to women. If fat women want to be beta, the option is always there, don’t be fat. In other words, women have social mobility, men don’t. Therefore, the women’s Greek system is fundamentally different from men’s, in fact I don’t have a problem with it. In fact it’s, kind of ideal.
Hahaha, I can assure you I’m not a fatphile. I don’t really care if you think I am.
Saying you specifically don’t care about an entire group of people, no matter how you classify them, means you do not in fact want equality as you claim. I don’t care if they can change their fatness (nevermind the fact that some people actually cannot), bigotry is bigotry. Honestly, I don’t care if you are bigoted against fat people. I just think you should be aware that your definition of “equality” is not in fact equality. If you don’t want equality, that’s fine. But don’t try to be all PC for our benefit, we can see through it.
No I don’t want equality, never did, I want equality of opportunity. So yeah, lack of options due to obesity is not unjust.
Equal opportunity for all who you deem “born” that way, right? But what knowledge do you have about obesity that makes you qualified to assert that all obesity, everywhere, is due to lack of motivation? Also, are fat men excluded from the right to “equal opportunity”? Also, who determines what is or is not obese? You? Men? Legislatures? Doctors? Is a woman obese if she wears a size 8 pant? What if she is 4 feet tall and wears a size 8?
Well… ok, I’m not saying there aren’t SOME people who have a problem. I think those people are sympathetic, maybe. But the vast majority of fat people are fat due to choice. I just hate people who have been gifted with no problem but have made one for themselves.
Your argument is inherently inconsistent. Maybe that is why no one here supports it?
One reason of many, sure.
So, let me see. A guy who has chosen to identify himself as a Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant quickly backs down and says that the MRM is full of shit once presented with any kind of an argument against his beloved movement. Loyalty: Not your thing, eh, MRAL?
About this so-called “omega women” problem: So, if a woman were not fat, but a severe alcoholic, she would still be a beta? Or if she were not fat but a paraplegic? Or not fat but had a fucked up face? Not fat but in her 60s? Not fat but mentally disabled? Not fat but really unattractive, and poor too? Just want to see how far we’re able to go with this … Not fat but incredibly hairy? Not fat but a pygmy dwarf? Not fat but 7 feet tall? How about this–what if she is fat, but she’s fat because she has PCOS or is on medication or has hypothyroidism or is disabled and can’t exercise, and thus has none of this social mobility of which you speak?
I mean, not that any of the above matters. Your so-called Greek system is bullshit regardless.
“No I don’t want equality, never did, I want equality of opportunity.”
Uh huh, and how does the MRM promise to alter the perceptions, needs, wants, and desires of the women you think you should have the right to be considered by?
Ok, but how are you going to tell who deserves “equal opportunity” and who doesn’t if you don’t know whether their problem is due to sheer lazyness or genetics? I too hate people who waste their natural gifts…but I couldn’t really tell you exactly who those people are. Is there a way to distinguish those with the ability to be naturally beautiful and those without? In the MRM world, will there be testing for that? And are we only going to discriminate against lazy people who are fat, or are we going to discriminate against lazy people who waste their brains? Who do drugs and waste their beauty? There are a lot of different kinds of lazy, do they all deserve to lose a chance at “equal opportunity”?
MRAL, you say that feminists do not care about individuals that you classify as omega males. There are, however, feminists on this site right here trying to help you, and you classify yourself as omega. Right now as I type this there is a feminist trying to help you. You sound like you suffer from body dysmorphia, which has a 77% successful treatment rate, but the treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy which you have said you see no point in. Consider, if you had a 77% chance at being happier would you take it? If not how are you different from the fat women that you deride for not becoming thin?
What about a physically alpha woman who is a criminal or on meth or a child molestor? Is she still alpha? What about a physically beta woman who has millions of dollars? Is she still beta?
I really do not get this system. I thought about it but haven’t the foggiest where to even start to figure out where my boyfriend and I fit on it.
“A guy who has chosen to identify himself as a Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant quickly backs down and says that the MRM is full of shit once presented with any kind of an argument against his beloved movement.”
WTF? When did I say that? The MRM is not full of shit, but I’m saying if they were, I would still follow them, because they offer an emotional support system while femiassholes only want to tell me what a great life I have and how fucking privileged I am and how I should consider myself LUCKY? FUCKINGLUCKY????
Well… ok, maybe the MRM is full of shit. But so what? They’re the only group that really gives a shit about, understands, or cares about omega males and their problems. Femiassholes, their biggest critics, certainly don’t. So even if there is no change brought about my the MRM, they’re the only option.
OK, now we’re getting somewhere. The MRM is an option, that’s true, but what kind of option is it? What will be the net outcome for you of associating yourself with it? Sure, you’ll get some support, some validation for your resentments, in the short run.
It is not possible, though, that continuing to stoke your resentment against women will only foreclose the possibility of making personal changes that may lead to you actually having success with women? In other words, deciding it’s their issue makes it easier to neglect working on your issues. Aren’t you just taking the easy way out–choosing resentment over personal improvement? Where do you see yourself after 10 years of following the MRM? Happy and successful or older and more bitter?
I think there is another way for you, it’s just not an easy or readily apparent one. It starts, however, by taking a good hard look at yourself.
Make of that what you will.
MRAL – I don’t think the feminists on here have ever really said that you were lucky. Occasionally someone mentions that there are people who have it worse than you, but I don’t think you could honestly believe that being short and having a messed up eye qualifies you for being labeled as the worst case scenario, right?
I think the feminists on this site are generally just trying to get you to see that everyone has problems. Everyone faces adversity.
Also, maybe you see the MRM as an emotional support system, but how much emotional support is it giving you? Would you genuinely say that since you found the movement you have felt better about yourself? About your chances for a healthy and happy life full of the things that you think will fulfill you? I don’t get that sense from you, but I could be wrong. On here, you mostly come off as someone who has been harassed about his appearance and is full of hatred and anger…and the MRM stokes that hatred and anger rather than helping you deal with it so you can move on and be happy.
As for what you consider to be your life downfalls, all I can offer is anecdotal evidence. I am a 26 year old woman who is attractive and within the healthy range of the BMI. I am 5’6 and have generally dated men who are about 5’7 or 5’8. Most of the men I have dated have been overweight or nerdy. The man I married (who I subsequently divorced for physically beating me and cheating on me) had a fucked up eye and in most respects was conventionally ugly. They all came from middle class backgrounds and had average ambition for their life (go to school, get a job, etc.). The one thing they all have in common is that they were most likely, by your scale, omegas. Maybe one or two would be considered a beta. And the thing that attracted me to every single one of them was their personality.
“because they offer an emotional support system”
Actually no they don’t, it’s just a pathetic bitch fest. If you want an actual emotional support system, get a counsellor and also start doing group therapy. And also get some friends who will tell you the truth and hold you accountable as well as love you. MRMs getting together on line to pull each other’s cocks isn’t exactly an emotional support system.
Ah, so you’re not not-loyal, you’re stupidly loyal! To a group you admit is probably full of shit. Gotcha.
Also…
Great emotional support system = You’re at the bottom of society and everyone hates you
Femiassholes = If you worked on yourself, you could become a happier person and these perceived slings and arrows would show themselves to be a figment of your paranoid brain, which the MRM has been feeding into
Riiii-ght. We should all have such a wonderful support system. Shame on us.
Like 3 people have said they dated someone with eye problems. I don’t buy it, it’s not common, I’m basically the only person I’ve ever met with a deformed eye. Even the fattet grossest motherfucker has that advantage over me.