The general line amongst manosphere misogynists is that American women are a bunch of stuck-up princesses whose “ginas” – that is, vaginas – tingle only in the presence of “thugs” and “alpha males.” But one YouTube ranter calling himself LogicJunkie has a somewhat different theory, as he recently explained in a note to the moderator of the Happier Abroad forums. American women, it turns out, are basically all Nazis at heart, “preoccupied with … eugenic perfection in males.” Let’s follow LogicJunkie’s, er, logic:
American females regard as a “creep” any guy who isn’t at least six feet tall, with a pronounced chin, a jock physique, and, in general, Ken doll good Aryan looks. And money is important, too, but not nearly as important as the physiological eugenics. So, in good Germanic fashion, I think what they’re mainly concerned about, is somehow being contaminated by the mere presence of the inferior. …
America is, now more than ever, a Germano-eugenicist death camp, wrapped in the facade of “capitalism” and “corporatism” and “pop culture” and blah, blah, blah. But it’s all about covertly advancing the genetic omnipresence of the Teutonic physiological ideal.
I hate to poop on LogicJunkie’s logic here but, dude, if all the women you’re meeting turn out to be eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis, it does not therefore follow that all American women are eugenics-obsessed, Aryan-fetishizing Nazis. It may just mean you should stop cruising for chicks at Klan meetings.
Oh… a PSA
Queer
Uncertain
Intergender
Lesbian
Transe
Bi
Asexual
Gay
I.e. QUILTBAG
OMG, your younger brother is a whole two inches taller than you! So what? You’re making a mountain out of a two inch molehill here.
“So what is so special about you?”
Other than the fact that he thinks he’s entitled to fuck Alessandra Ambrosio, nothing.
I’ve been thin my whole life, not quite as much anymore but I am not fat either. Thing is, I choose my female friends based on who they are not how much they weigh (and I have always had female friends who were fat) – and if a guy wanted to date me (and there has been no shortage), he would have to be good to my girlfriends because anyone who trashed my fat girls would be dumped immediately. So this is yet another way MRAL loses; fat chicks have skinny friends sometimes but if you trash said fat chicks, their skinny friends are off limits to you, thus closing YET ANOTHER door.
‘Heightism’ does not only affect men. I am a short woman (5’1”, I wish I could be as tall as you, you ingrate), and the lack of respect, infantilization and general talking down-to I receive is noticeably more than what my taller peers get, of any gender.
There’s stereotypes surrounding short women as childlike, and it’s absolutely infuriating.
That said, have you considered the difficulty tall women have in pairing up heterosexually? Certain men are ashamed to be shorter than women, and will not date taller women. My sister, who is the same height as you, is afraid to wear heels around her boyfriend, who mind you is the same height, because she thinks it might bruise his ego.
Why don’t you check the self-pity for a moment. 5’8” isn’t short, it’s essentially average. You wanna know what short is? Shorter than that, let me tell you.
I think heightism only affects men (another reason women are the privileged class).
How many of those Fortune 500 CEOs are women?
(Spoilers: 15. If it’s proof of heightism that 30% of Fortune 500 CEOs are tall, surely you’ll agree it’s proof of sexism that 97% of them–97 percent!–are dudes. And, yes, I do think that height affects the way women are perceived in the workplace.)
MRAL: Confidence goes a long way, too. I had an awkward phase, with a large nose, crooked teeth, bad perm, and mild acne. I was thin, but NO boys were ever interested in me. I looked down at the floor most of the time, because I was embarrassed about being ugly.
I didn’t give up, though. I wore braces for four years, got a nose job, grew my hair out and wore it straight, and used acne cream to improve my skin. I read makeup books, and started using makeup. The difference was night and day. Finally, boys noticed me, and I had dates. I think it is partly from the physical changes, but another thing that changed was my confidence level and being happy.
I know not everyone likes plastic surgery, but it did wonders for me. Perhaps if you had some eye work done, you would feel better about yourself and the way you look. I’m sure I could have done fine in life with a big nose, but my new nose makes me happy. It was my money, my face, my business.
You know what MRAL? Height discrimination does exist. I’ve seen it, I’m aware of it, and it frankly disgusts me. You know what also exists? Vegetarian discrimination. I can’t tell you how many vile threats I’ve received due to my eating habits, how much mockery, how many dirty looks, and how much misunderstanding.
But you know what? I in no way, ever, pretend that the discrimination I receive for being a vegetarian is anything close to religious discrimination, ethnic discrimination, weight discrimination, looks discrimination, sex discrimination, etc.. Because people along ethnic, gender, and I believe even religious lines have been denied the vote. Because along those lines as religious, looks, and weight have been denied jobs. Because people long ethnic, gender, and religious lines have been the targets of genocide. Vegetarians have never suffered any of that, at least to my knowledge. And neither have short people. You can get off your soapbox now.
And you know what else? It was feminist grandmother who once asked, “Why does the boy have to be taller than the girl?” when she heard of a couple being derided because the woman was taller. Not to mention that my feminist stepgrandmother was always taller than my grandfather, and she has never been fat*.
90% of CEOs are tall, not 30%. nicetry
MRAL – do you have some form a citation or support for that statement?
MRAL, you’re twenty. I know all sorts of lovely men who have not gotten their first kiss by the time they’re twenty; virgins are rather a specialty of mine, in fact. You are well within the bell curve. Relax. You are going to have sex. Jocks are like warriors: they do really well on the first level, and then don’t go much from there except “bigger sword, kill more things.” Nerds are like wizards: on first level they can cast “create small dancing lights”, but by the time they hit twentieth, they can rewrite universes.
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/106587328_Overcoming__heightism__is_a_tall_order.html
“A recent survey of 500 American CEO’s showed the average height was 6 feet and less than three percent were below 5 feet, 7 inches.”
3 percent! This study also showed that 90% of CEOs were at least 5’10 (ie, average or above) but it doesn’t specify that here. I’ll look for another article.
Malcolm Gladwell did a quick survey of some (half of the?) Fortune 500 companies, and found that 30% were over 6’2″ and about 4% were under 5’6″. I guess it depends on where your definition of “tall” lies. And maybe even your definition of CEO. (I.e., does it include non-Fortune 500 companies?)
Anyway, I continue to be amazed by MRAL’s insistence that this is all about him, the short, 5’8″ man. If a significant number of CEOs are tall, then it stands to reason that there are other prejudices are work here too. Probably we can deduce also that women are less likely to be CEOs. And hispanics and Asians are also probably less likely. Recent immigrants, whose families have come to the United States within a generation or two are also likely to be overlooked for these positions. People who grew up well below the poverty line. But MRAL? He’s looking out for number one. One wonders what MRAL has done to deserve all these CEO positions at such a young age. Too bad he’s not two inches taller, eh?
You’re looking for articles? Great, there’s hope for you yet. Maybe check for how many are women/disabled/not white/QUILTBAG/from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds, etc while you’re at it. That will prove so many, many things.
Ok, this man says that there is a study…but what study? Done where? He doesn’t even give the name of the study. I did a search and found another article referencing the study with a cite…but then I went to the cite (wikipedia) and CEO’s weren’t mentioned on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heightism#Heightism_in_employment
That doesn’t meant that discrimination against short people doesn’t exist, I’m sure it does on some scale – there are apparently proposed laws against it in some states and lawsuits based on height discrimination.
Also, the comment about your brother earlier suggests a little sibling rivalry may be a root issue.
Ozymandias – I am a jock nerd. Rugby + Chess Club What does that make me D&D wise (apart from broken)
MRAL
Height is just… height. Its only an issue if you let it be one. Just like baldness (yeah I am 25 and started going bald aged 17. You have no idea how much I panicked back then)
Stop whining, women don’t like whining. Dress nicely, women tend to like well dressed men rather than slobs. It doesn’t mean dress expensively. Make intentions clear rather than using haphazard euphemisms.
I find a clear “I think you are pretty and would like to buy you a drink” works better than umpteen chat up lines that people give you. And no I am not some adonis. I am actually overweight, balding and quite heavily scarred. I look 35 rather than 25. If I can talk to women then anyone else can.
And no I don’t have low self esteem, I have common sense. I am not attractive. I am however smart and funny and that does count for a lot.
LOL, you can be shorter than 6’2 and still be tall. 6’2 is bordering on VERY tall, it’s equivalent in rarity to like a 5’5 man. If 90% of CEOs are above average height, and the average is 6’0, it’s PROBABLY not a coincidence. That’s as bad as the racial gap, even worse, I think. Why is everyone so eager to write this HUGE issue off as not a concern or caused by external factors?
The average height for Presidents is 5’11, and that’s accounting for the older days when people were shorter and there weren’t televised debates. If you just include the past 100 years, since television and since people have gotten taller, the average is significantly higher (I can’t remember exactly what, but it’s like 6’0 or 6’1).
Obama is 6’1. Dubya is 6’0. Clinton is 6’2. Bush Sr. is 6’2. Reagan was 6’1. Carter is a big-time shorty at 5’9, the supposed “average” height for a man. Nixon, we’re right back to heightism at 6’0. LBJ was 6’4. Are you going to tell me that’s a coincidence?!?
MRAL – ok, lets say height discrimination is going on. What are you doing about it? How are you trying to change the society in which you live to prevent discrimination against people based on height. There is one state which apparently has a law against height discrimination. If that isn’t the state in which you live, are you actively doing anything to get a similar law passed in your state? Are you organizing? Are you talking to your elected officials? Groups that have historically been discriminated against actively worked to change society and the way people are perceived. If you want change, you will have to work for it. Luckily, there have been a lot of civil rights movements in the past to provide guidance for how to do just that.
Worse than the racial gap? Yeah, I give in. It really is all about you, MRAL. You win. What are you going to do with that shiny gold star you just earned in the oppression Olympics? Whine some more, or actually do something to improve your situation?
Well, getting people to accept that heightism is a major force of prejudice comparable to racism would be a start.
That would be a good start. How are you making that happen? The quick search I did pulled up some articles and citations for people concerned with height discrimination, and when a new law gets proposed, it has to come from somewhere. Why not actually try to contact the people who recognize height discrimination as a problem and see what they are doing to change things and how you can help. I bet they will have a lot of constructive help for you for how you achieve actual change considering they have managed to get multiple bills introduced and one passed. All discrimination, no matter what type, takes time for people to recognize and then to deal with.
So, I guess my point is that it seems like there are people you could associate with who are actively trying to change discrimination based on height. And it seems like these people are making positive changes in an area that you care about. And maybe associating with them would help you work on your anger, rather then foster new anger.
MRAL, you could start a group to fight against discrimination based on physical appearance — you know, height, weight, …. oh, wait.
Why do you expect people to have empathy to you when you show zero for other people?
You can’t really do the legal thing because heightism is slimy and insidious and it’s not something people DO, but just a part of the way they THINK, they probably aren’t even aware of it.
That’s true, people probably aren’t aware of a bias against shorter than average people. And they are certainly not going to be aware of it if it is never brought to their attention. Discriminatory hiring practices can sometimes be proven through a course of conduct (aka, you show that over a long period of time, large portions of highly qualified individuals were not given jobs when less qualified but taller individuals were). In today’s society, it is rare to find anyone who just outright admits to discriminating…and yet people are sued for various forms of discrimination all of the time.
Anyway, fighting for civil rights has never been easy for any group facing discrimination, but being hard is not the same as being impossible. Many groups have fought hard for their rights and won.
Thing is I have bigger problems than just being short, it’s just that being short is my most MAINSTREAM problem. So I don’t have the time, because I need to deal with everything else plus succeed within the parameters alloted to me.