Above, the unintentionally ironic MRA meme of the week, courtesy of A Voice for Men’s Facebook page, their main distribution center for unintentionally ironic and otherwise terrible memes. I’m not sure what specific week this is the ironic meme for, given that Emma Watson’s speech to the UN took place last September and this meme was posted on Facebook only this week, but just roll with it, people!
So what exactly makes this meme ironic? Well, for starters, Watson didn’t actually say the words in question or otherwise order men to talk to women about their feelings.
What she said was a good deal more subtle. She started by saying that one of the things that led her to embrace feminism was her realization, at age 18, that “my male friends were unable to express their feelings.” Then she went on to talk in more detail about the ways breaking down gender stereotypes helps to free, well, everyone.
We don’t often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.
If men don’t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won’t feel compelled to be submissive. If men don’t have to control, women won’t have to be controlled.
Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong… It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.
If we stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by what we are—we can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. It’s about freedom.
The big irony here? This is exactly what a real Men’s Rights movement should be promoting, not raging against.
Adding to the irony, whoever made this meme made clear that they aren’t just unwilling to listen to women’s feelings; they’re unwilling to listen to a woman’s logical argument. Which is why they simplified her comments and distorted their meaning.
But what wins this meme the grand prize for irony this week is meme maker’s assertion that “WE DON’T NEED OR WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT OUR FEELINGS.”
Really? Because in fact MRA dudes and MGTOWs and the rest of their ilk talk about their feelings constantly, and loudly — with anyone willing to listen and some who aren’t.
Sure, it’s true that most MRA dudes and their ideological soulmates don’t like to talk about their feelings of sadness or anxiety or insecurity or doubt. You know, the sorts of feelings it would be good for most of these guys to explore and understand and, when possible, get past.
But they love, just love, to talk about how angry they are, how angry they think other men are, and how much feminists, and the women of the world generally, are going to suffer if they refuse to listen to angry men and do what they say. Hell, the so-called “father” of Men’s Rights in the UK? A guy who calls himself Angry Harry. (And he more than lives up to the name.)
The cherry on top of this Irony Sundae: the memester’s decision to use a picture of a homeless man to represent a man oppressed by demanding women.
Men don’t become homeless because some evil woman asked them to talk about their feelings. Indeed, given how many homeless people are mentally ill, most homeless men (and women) would benefit from having the opportunity to talk to a trained professional about their feelings and from better mental health services generally. (Not to mention better services for veterans suffering from PTSD and other war-related maladies.)
In the US, many homeless people who are mentally ill were dumped onto the streets by facilities that didn’t have the money to properly care for them; some of the facilities were and are so bad that their former inhabitants actually prefer the streets.
Oh, and one of the main reasons mental health services are so shitty in the US — and why, in particular, so many men are so poorly served? The old-fashioned notion that men “DON’T NEED OR WANT TO TALK … ABOUT OUR FEELINGS.”
So I award AVFM this week’s IRONY AWARD in MEMING, for once again promoting ideas that actually make the world worse for men!
Lynn, maybe some Art Therapy? 🙂
I don’t know about that, but you’re really close to the society in Looking Backward: 2000-1887.
Nope. I had the exact same thought. In fact, I also thought “What if that’s a homeless WOMAN in that pic?”
(‘Course, a PUA would just see prey there. Which is icky on a whole ‘nother level.)
I kinda hope that is a woman now…
…
You know what I mean.
Also, yow, that meme. Talking about feelings = destroying the lives of men! The only admissible feelings are anger, rage, and off-the-charts FURY!!! at women for being so emotional, illogical, and (imaginarily) demanding!
Yup. Me too. Because nothing would get their goat like having made the “perfect” meme to illustrate their nonsensical position, only to have it implode on them like that.
Kate Minter:
Except posting awful memes and raging against feminists on the internet does exactly nothing to solve any problem. Whereas, being able to openly experience, express and process emotions would, in the very least, help people feel better.
And I think “helping people feel better and be more emotionally/psychologically healthy” is a pretty damn good and useful goal.
Isn’t it fun how AVFM (“Compassion for men and boys”) is complaining about Emma Watson expressing compassion for men and boys.
Gotcha something:
Well, I shared this in another thread, but it looks like it would be on topic here:
A man created a meme to explain “real courage” as opposed to Caitlyn Jenner, and it backfired spectacularly.
Unlike MRAs, the guy in question actually learnt from the experience.
I saw that a few days ago. It made my day that somebody actually did learn something from such a colossal irony. I wish these guys would do the same, but it seems that learning from their mistakes is on a par with talking about any feeling other than seething rage, or indeed engaging in any form of activism other than internet trolling: taboo, taboo, taboo.
Ah… a lot of people like the status quo and either explicitly or subtly re-enforce it. In terms of relationships, if the onus is on the other interested party to always initiate, show interest, then the opposite sex doesn’t have to risk rejection and can indulge in some backward fantasy of being pursued without having to consider it from his perspective. When the expectation is for one gender to remain stoic, well then that’s fewer problems for others to have to listen to, fewer people to be considerate towards.
Someone who is confident and unfazed at all times is more entertaining, less of a hassle to be around. People generally prefer that. Thus men get this idea that if they want to keep their friends and their partners happy, they need to continue in this mode.
(Just to qualify that; I wouldn’t consider those in the manosphere repressed; they certainly seem to want emotional outlets…)
(Poetry nerdery approaching) And not just that! Gertrude Stein wrote my (almost) favourite sentence ever: “Sugar is not a vegetable.” I was reading the book of prose poetry it was in, Tender Buttons, for class, and I laughed out loud, something I wasn’t expecting from, well, avant-garde prose poetry.
She can also be frustratingly opaque and repetitive at times, but damn – “Sugar is not a vegetable!” Sad, but true!
What Asshole Bryce is saying here, but not using the words because he knows it’s complete nonsense and he’s hoping it will fly under the radar, is that women looooooove being passive objects for men to pursue, and they loooooooove it when men don’t talk about their feelings because women don’t like to waste time being considerate toward men.
That’s what Bryce is saying.
Just so we’re all clear.
@epitome
Sugar is considered a vegetable? Or is it that we eat more sugar now than vegetables? I might need more context here.
@PoM
Yeah, I thought what Bryce said didn’t feel right, but I couldn’t make heads or tails with all the purple ink everywhere.
I see this all the time amongst the less intelligent among us, the inability to follow a thought through to its logical conclusion. They call it thinking, rather than just reacting. It’s called the human brain overpowering the mammalian brain, a sign of general evolution of the mind.
It is my belief that men of this ilk are doomed to die out as they are ill equipped to adapt to their changing surroundings, and it was one Charles Darwin who concluded that it is not the strongest of the species that survives, but those most adaptable.
It’s a common misconception or mis-understanding of Darwin’s theory of evolution, he never said ‘survival of the fittest’, he said ‘survival of the most adaptable’, and they are very different concepts.
Those who are unable to adapt, are doomed to die out, and thus the gene pool of the species is stronger for their having removed themselves from it.
This thought helps me greatly when I am conversing with MRA douchery.
Men are changing as the concept of what it is to be a man is changing, those who can’t deal with that change are doomed to die out and the most adaptable of the species will thrive and proliferate, spreading their genes into the next generation. Ditto for women.
As people become more educated, women and men alike, our concepts of what is attractive and what will make us feel secure in our relationships is changing (for both men and women), the concept of an appropriate ‘mate’ is changing. As women have become more educated and able to support themselves, brutish/controlling men have become not only unattractive but downright threatening to educated women. Just as simple women who will cook, clean and have sex with their husbands at will (whilst heaping all of the responsibility for tangible survival onto the man) has also become less attractive for modern/educated men.
The concept of sexuality has also changed, and people are now realising that it is possible to have fluidity both, internally and externally, to our own gender (even within our own gender); people feel more confident in their sexuality than ever before therefore their choice of sexual partners has changed with that confidence.
The acceptance of the fluidity of sexuality and gender is also an integral part of adaptability. The acceptance of these realities makes one a more attractive mate, those who aren’t adapting to these changes are slowly becoming fringe dwellers of the species, and will eventually die out (basically because nobody will want to mate with them other than other fringe dwellers of the species), the same goes for race.
Unfortunately the fringe dwellers of the species often believe they are the strongest…another great irony 🙂
Oh, I could go on for hours people but I feel I’ve taken up enough space on this board :-).
@paradoxical intention
..and, not surprisingly, you apply the worst, most uncharitable interpretation of other’s words…
The last sentence there is not directed at women but society. Most people want friends who are enjoyable and easy going, not hard work. If men aren’t expected to talk about their problems then a lot of other men and women will prefer that state of affairs.
As for women expecting men to pursue, that’s a matter of convenience to the individual, of not wanting to risk humiliation when one doesn’t have to – if the roles were reversed men would likely have the same attitude.
*@Policy of Madness
@Bryce
I’m not Paradoxical Intention.
And if you didn’t want someone to make “the worst possible” interpretation, you should have said what you meant straight out and not tried to subtweet your sexist bullshit.
Why the hell are you on this board? All you do is this marginal trolling. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post out of you that isn’t testing the edge of what constitutes trolling. What do you get out of this? I am genuinely curious.
@Leisha Young
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/amusd.gif
Oh, no, you can go on alllll day.
@Bryce – Are you suggesting women in general have the fantasy of being pursued? If I were to generalize, I think a desire to be desired (not “pursued” necessarily) by someone you find desirable is pretty widespread, regardless of gender.
Of course how they imagine that desire to be expressed might be different according to social expectations, but also according to individual personalities.
At the same time, to get vaguely personal, I’m worrying about a situation where a person is interested in me and I’m not as sure we are compatible. (He is a he, I’m a she.) Honestly, I’m so much used to the dynamic being the other way around, I’m not sure how to deal with my own feelings. I AM afraid of rejection! – both afraid of being rejected and of rejecting someone else. I’m not thinking I should just string him along “without having to consider it from his perspective.” No no no no!
Now, perhaps I’m being unfair to you, but you seem to be implying that women are selfish. I’m not the most selfless person I know – far from it – and I try to consider other people’s perspectives in most interactions. Don’t you??
@Pandapool – erm, the context of the sentence? I’ll write it here, but I’m not sure it’ll clarify anything 😛
-Gertrude Stein, Tender Buttons (BookThug 2008 edition pp. 19-20)
@epitome
…
No, that didn’t help. At all.
Did she just cut up bits of sentences and throw them into a hat or something?
It looks like something one of those automated spambots might post.
Gertrude Stein is a spambot made into an android. Makes sense.
Bryce:
Wow. OK. A lot here.
First paragraph…
1) You assume there is never a rejection for the one being “pursued” or rather, not being “pursued”. (Hint: there can be)
2) Couple that with not only the rejection of seeing them ask someone else, but also the societal pressure that they shouldn’t go after the person directly. You just assume women want to be pursued rather than society looking down on women who do the pursuing.
3) Also! With the status quo. The big difference is that men have the control of the initiation of the situation. Women do not. Men get to decide if they want to pursue. Women do not get to decide if they are pursued. A woman will get “pursued” whether they want to be or not… And then they are expected to play nursemaid for the very fucking person who put them in the situation that they didn’t ask to be in because you Bryce think women should look at it from the poor men’s perspective who are going to be rejected. See how one sided that is? I’m not even into men and I’ve had to deal with it…
Second Paragraph!
1) Well… great way of saying people who show emotion are a hassle… Speak for yourself buddy. I don’t wanna hang around mindless soulless robots all the time.
2) Actually I want a citation for this because unless you’re just talking about only “stereotypical guys” when you say people… But that opens up a whole new set of issues.
(I apologize for the harshness, but that post really rubbed me the wrong way.)