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If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.
It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.
But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.
Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:
One angry MRA asks:
Another wonders:
Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.
Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.
And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)
Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”
The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”
After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.
“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.
But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”
Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.
EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.
Oh, just jump to the “Heartsie Takes On…” thread and read three pages back or so. “Davis” was putting on a hell of show while being ultra offensive. I one point he told us he owned a gun shop, which I thought was super inappropriate — given the OP.
Davis: You can’t just jump threads and expect no one to notice, you know.
Now answer my question: Do you really think black women are worse than the KKK? Is that what you were trying to say?
Actually, he called me the “bitch” this time. As in, “Keep up bitch.” It was super icky.
Jumping off the handicap ramp at school and breaking your ankle? Dumb.
Going on a shooting spree? Nope, that goes way beyond dumb.
(The former was my brother and I’m never going to let him live it down)
I won’t call anyone out of their name, if the favor is returned.
I apoligize for my behavior in the other thread. I am just upset over the ahooting and that the media or anyone else does not want a real solution to stop these shootings.
You’re upset over the shooting? Then why are you defending the shooter?
@Shiraz
You made fun of me, so I returned the favor.
Well, guess it’s good Davis is over here now. There’s another new one in the original thread. Can’t have two trolls in one space. Mucks with the time space continuum, makes black holes, etc.
Show me where I defended the shooter.
@Quackers
I think the problem being faced is that while many people are victims of hate groups the public by and large does not see it. Even when you take into account the large number woman who are raped or murdered daily. Similar to the way black men and woman are treated in the courts. it’s easy to see the unfairness if you look, but if it does not directly affect them, nobody gives a shit. also as a side note I bet that had his manifesto not been found, misogyny would not even have been mentioned at all in the press
Yes, I mocked you for trolling.
You’re eager to make excuses for the shooter, based on, well, most of your posts. Scroll up.
Bullshit. You wanted to come here to tell us how much you hate women. You don’t want a solution, because the solution wouldn’t suit dudes like you. There’s just not enough off for you to fuck.
So, Davis, what did you mean when you said:
And this:
And this:
And this:
And this:
And this:
And why did you call Shiraz a gendered slur?
@ Davis
If you insist…
“Elliot should have done the same thing I did.
At the age of 16, I knew the opposite sex did not want me. Instead of going crazy about it, I focused on making money.”
“If Elliot would have distanced himself from those who did not like him, he would not have shot those people.”
“Lea, my point is that Elliot should have focused on his money and stopped worrying about women not liking him.”
“If men like Elliot stop caring if women don’t like them, then we would not have these types
Shootings.”
“Elliot would not have did that dumb shit, if he accepted who he was.”
Empathy with the shooter, per request.
@ Shiraz
The shooter is responsible for his actions. No MRA group convinced him to shoot women. That is not making excuses for Elliot. It is holding him accountable.
If you want to blame anyone else, then Blame SBSD for not doing a better job when it came to Elliot’s welfare check.
You folks are using this as an excuse to blame MRA sites.
You’re really going to try and bring up racism when you were pooping out racism in the other thread? Come on now.
You came to a feminist blog and commented in a thread about a misogynistic killer about how much you hate women and people gave you a hard time? What a shocking turn of events!
@Fromafar
How is that defending the shooter. If Elliot did what I did, he would have never ahot those people.
Like I said, you people do not want solutions. You just want to find a reason to blame MRA sites for anything and everything.
Davis: Rodgers posted on MRA-adjacent sites, what about that? Stop defending him.
MRA sites should be blamed for the crap ideas about women they put out into the world.
Hellkell. I am not defending the shooter. I am saying that MRA sites are not at fault. SBSD is at fault for not doing a better job checking into Elliot when his parents asked them to.
What happened to people being held accountable for their own action?
SBSD did not do their job properly. Blame them.
Blame Elliot for his evil actions.
Blaming MRA sites for whack job does is irrational.
@Davis, You are really betraying your ignorance. The people who did the welfare check on Rodger were not actually psychic. Do you even have any idea what kind of thing they would have need to seen to commit him involuntarily?
SBSD didn’t murder anyone. Elliot Rodger did. He’s at fault.
The MRM didn’t murder anyone either but Rodger’s hatred of women was fostered by it. Killing women is the natural extreme of what the MRM preaches.
But sure, blame everything except Rodger’s hateful misogyny, which is endorsed by MRAs even if they don’t think it should usually result in killing women. (Unless those women come after you for child support, in which case I’ve seen plenty of MRAs advocate killing them.)
Erin or Farmer Joe or Davis or whoever you are, am I to understand that your solution to violence against women is for all men who don’t have a bevy of blonde sorority girls to have sex with and all men who ever had a bad experience with a girl in his teens should cut off all contact, even business or platonic contact with all women. That’s a reasonable solution to you?
What about domestic violence? What’s your solution to that? What excuse do men who commit violence against their girlfriends or wives have.
And yes you are defending Rodgers by saying that having a bad experience with women whether it was real or perceived justifies misogyny.
@Cloudiah
The deputies could looked around his apartment. Like I said, you folks blame MRA sites for everything that happens to women.
FYI, Elliot killed more men than women.
@Suzy
Oh yeah this is definitely not just on the manosphere. In fact I’ve not gone to any manosphere sites the past few days. The denial is all over my facebook and in comment sections which I can only skim before my brain leaks from my ears. Also to clarify, I don’t think misogyny was the only thing at play here, this was clearly a disturbed individual on all levels, but misogyny was a big factor.
@KenL
what gets me though is that even if they don’t see it, women are telling them, and they still deny it or dismiss it as overreacting. They deny it even when they see it in cases like these. How much more do we have to do to make them see it?
In all honesty if this shit keeps happening, then I can see many more women becoming more guarded and cautious. Which of course is going to piss off those particular types of dudes who only give a shit that their boners aren’t being catered to, rather than examining WHY women are not being receptive. Watch all the insults of “bitchy” and “ice queen” double.
No one is claiming they’re at fault for his actions but everything he had to say was straight out of the MRM rule book. That’s where he got his ideas. They are responsible for encouraging his hatred of women and promoting violence against women. That’s what they do.
@treehugger.
What’s wrong with cutting off contact with people who do not like you?
ELLIOT KILLED MORE MEN THAN WOMEN BECAUSE HE WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN SHOOTING UP A SORORITY FULL OF WOMEN. HAD HE SUCCEEDED HE WOULD HAVE KILLED AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF WOMEN.
How many times are we going to have to repeat this?
I’m going to have a drink. Anyone else?
Did the MRA site members tell Elliot to shoot innocent people. If they did, you need to take screen shots and report them to the police.
YES. TWO DRINKS.
Actually, I think it’s a good idea Davis tries not to associate with women. Why? Read all of his posts. Also, the short temper thing. I mean, if a woman somewhere made fun of him, he might have to remind her that he owns a gun shop or something.
@Davis/Erin/Whoever, You have a very inaccurate understanding of what the SBSD could have done. But sure, keep fixating on that, rather than the real problem. It seems to be something you’re very good at.
David has dealt with this. Numerous commenters have dealt with this.
He intended to slaughter (his words) every single woman in a sorority house. That was his goal. He was thwarted, when he couldn’t gain entry. The gender breakdown of his victims would have been totally different if it weren’t for that.
But sure, keep hand-waving away his stated motivation and intent, and focus on irrelevant things like the fact that SBSD were not psychic.
Good gravy, a cursory Google search will reveal a bevy of examples of MRM site posters discussing the value of violence against women and when killing them is justified.
@Cloudiah
You keep blaming MRA sites for something they are not responsible for, but you give the SBSD a pass for not being more thorough.
“The deputies could looked around his apartment.”
You mean and then find the manifesto? Unless he was stupid enough to leave a print copy on the coffee table, nope. Welfare check =/= search warrant. But if the place was suitable for human habitation and he wasn’t an obvious danger to anyone, then no, they didn’t fail at their jobs. You don’t get to search the apt of an adult just because zir parents think it might be a good idea, you really want to set that precedent?
Which probably would’ve required a search warrant. Which they didn’t have.
Because MRA sites peddle the same kind of misogyny that Rodger’s espoused, and that harms women every day.
BUT HE KILLED PEOPLE BECAUSE HE HATED WOMEN! THAT WAS HIS MOTIVE! THE ONLY REASON HE DIDN’T KILL MORE WOMEN WAS BECAUSE THEY WOULDN’T LET HIM IN THE DOOR OF THE SORORITY HOUSE!
Sorry for shouting, everyone, but cheese and crackers how many times do people have to say this?
OMG guys. Davis is so wise. Nobody has ever made this incredibly original point before!
Everyone gets hurt at some point. The only way your solution works is if men and women are cordoned of on separate continents. Even that doesn’t work because gay, lesbian and bi people get hurt by members of their own sex.
Your solution is incredibly stupid.
David, and the wonderful people of this website- thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was introduced to “The Manoshpere” two years ago after being “plated” and subsequently physically and emotionally abused by several different PUA’s. This website has been an oasis of rational thought and humor as I try to heal from the horribly toxic situations I fell prey to. I’ve been haunted by the demoralizing things that were said to me, and demanded of me. It’s taken me a while to find the courage to introduce myself here. I was targeted the instant I joined OKCupid by a well- known and oft mentioned professional PUA that is a major contributor to a rather infamous website that I will not name. I wrestle with the psychological aftermath the interaction with this person has left upon my psyche. Thank you for leading me to the path of healing. Forgive any breach of posting protocol, I am an avid fan and supporter.
Why is all my booze at my BF’s?! Someone teleport me vodka, stat!
Fuck the vodka, we need a welcome package first!
Treehugger
I am 38 years old and I never had sex. Just because a guy no longer wants to deal with women doesn’t make him gay.
Did someone call for a Welcome Package?
Petition available to classify the MRA as a terrorist group is available for those that feel compelled to sign https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/classify-mens-rights-movement-terrorist-group/W5018W63
Which bears absolutely no connection to what weirwoodtreehugger said, but thanks for that non sequitur.
@Pink
Why do we need to classify a group of frustrated ass pathetic men as terrorist?
They have a right to spew their stupidity just like everyone else.
@pinkfluffyunicrone, A Voice for Men is promoting that petition. And while MRAs are hateful bigots, they’re too unorganized to constitute a terrorist group. I wouldn’t endorse that petition, personally.