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Men’s Rightser explains the problem with “giving women the complete freedom to choose their mate”

So yesterday I posted an extended fisking of a rant from the Men’s RIghts subreddit that was longer than fuck.

Well, guess what: there’s even more wild bulshit from other Men’s RIghtsers in that very same thread, a little conversation in which each new comment is a little bit worse than the last. (There should be a name for that, I think.)

Here’s the top post in the discussion, which takes aim at women for their crime of wanting to sleep with attractive men.

Take it away, WhereProgressIsMade:

What happens is the women who get into the hookup scene all gravitate to a small pool of the most attractive men. So that book isn’t wrong – that small pool of men do have pretty much all the power. Many use it to maintain soft harems and never commit.

SOFT HAREMS.

The women project and think it’s like this for all men and fail to realize the bottom majority of men don’t experience anything like this at all. Many of those women keep hoping one of those attractive guys will commit eventually, but even if they do, there are many more women vying for them than guys, so a great deal of those women get very bitter and resentful.

In the old days, they would have been paired off with someone more in her league and at least had a chance at an ok marriage.

I don’t think any of this is true.

“It IS like a harem,” replies [deleted]

And they are reproducing with some of the most toxic men who become deadbeats.

“Reproducing.”

And then we all pick up the pieces collectively through social programs. (Which idc if i am taxed to provide food stamps and housing vouchers. We need that.) Its just not a great foundation for childhood. We are learning so much now about personality being at least half genetic, so thats only creating more antisocial male traits in the sons they raise, usually without father investment anyway.

Simple-Dimension3806 kicks it up a notch, misogyny-wise.

So the BIG lesson here is that if we give women the complete freedom to choose their mate, they will mate with the most genetically inferior men? So let me get this straight: women get fooled by these mental retards because outwardly they look like genetic gold but on the inside they have defective genes because of mental issues and behavior disorders? So.. so like..let me get this straight..in essence women get fooled by illusions? I’m shocked! NOT.

So once again it comes down to this: women shouldn’t be allowed to choose their, er, “mates.” Because they tend to choose to date the men they’re attracted to. This is why — or at least one of the reasons why — we call the Men’s Rights movement a hate group.

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Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
3 months ago

“Its just not a great foundation for childhood.”

Because [deleted] is eager to have children and do at least 50 percent of the excellent child-rearing. And he’s very, very concerned about the fact that not all children get this kind of top-notch fathering. And we can tell from his name alone, [deleted], that this is a man who never gives up on anything worth his while — and fatherhood is of the utmost importance to him.

Also, he can’t get laid.

Lollypop
Lollypop
3 months ago

“women get fooled by these mental retards because outwardly they look like genetic gold but on the inside they have defective genes because of mental issues and behavior disorders?”

It’s always a little pathetic when grown men like this have to tell themselves that handsome men are dumb/mean. Its like they’ve built their worldview around a jocks and nerds dynamic they watched in a film.

Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

outwardly they look like genetic gold but on the inside they have defective genes

Well, I’m not convinced of their overall premise. But, even taking their argument at face value, isn’t the whole point of sexual selection, in evolutionary terms, that external attractiveness indicates underlying fitness?

Like peacocks can go “Hey lady peacocks, I’m such hubby material I can waste energy growing all these feathers.”

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 months ago

What happens is the women who get into the hookup scene all gravitate to a small pool of the most attractive men.

As usual, they’re wildly overestimating how many women get into the hookup scene, and overestimating the even smaller fraction of women who hang around Chad’s harem hoping to be chosen for marriage. Most women seeking a long term partner move on if their current partner drags their feet for too long.

They vastly overestimate the number of women who do this, because they only count nubile 18 year old virgins looking for hookups as real women, thus committing the same unpardonable sin of being a lot of men chasing after a very small pool of women.

if we give women the complete freedom to choose their mate, they will mate with the most genetically inferior men?

If these men are sexually successful, then what’s the problem? They’ll pass down their sexually successful genes to their offspring (according to this simplistic model, anyway), and their offspring will attract women and pass on the genes, and so on. It doesn’t make any logical sense to whine that it’s wrong for women to be attracted to attractive men. That’s literally how mate selection works. This is just an extended “women are evil because they won’t sleep with ME” rant.

And they are reproducing with some of the most toxic men who become deadbeats

Wait, I thought fathers were tragic figures who get divorce raped and forever cut off from their children. Now you’re telling us they’re deadbeats??

(Which idc if i am taxed to provide food stamps and housing vouchers. We need that.)

You know, this is a surprisingly, and momentarily, generous point of view. He’s so close to getting it. Then he goes back to griping about Chad.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
3 months ago

Plenty of non-Chads manage to marry and raise children and grandchildren. I can tell the miggies what the secret is for FREE! Listen closely, boys:

They’re not assholes like you.

Snowberry
Snowberry
3 months ago

@GSS ex-noob

They’re not assholes like you.

Liiiiieees! My cousin’s friend’s brother-in-law tried behaving halfway decently once, and he didn’t get laid!

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
3 months ago

Me and my chosen mate are gonna get drunk. Good night everybody!

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
3 months ago

You folks might want to take shelter. I’m about to facepalm hard enough to register on every seismograph from Osaka to Seattle.

epronovost
epronovost
3 months ago

Time for a thought experiment.

My hypothesis is that if I gender flip this man’s “theory”, we will uncover one of his main problem in his relationship with women.

So here it goes. When men have the freedom to choose their mate, they all gravitate towards the same pool of attractive young women which many use as a soft harem and don’t commit to a single relationship. A lot of those men get bitter for either not being chosen at all or being thrown away like used toys. Since those women are vain and self-centered, they make for poor life partners and they end up being poor mothers in turn. The stupid immature men who run after them are similarly poor life partners. Men get fooled by those women of poor character and maturity because they are attractive. In other words men are superficial which leads to society’s downfall.

While this reverse theory pretty stupid, it does seem to me to strike at the problem of the OP. He doesn’t describe the behavior of men in general or women in general. He describes his own experience of love relationship and seduction. He wishes to be the kind of handsome and outgoing guy who gets to pick up attractive outgoing gals pretty easily, but he is not. That doesn’t prevent him from trying his luck on young attractive outgoing gals who simply have better options without even trying to learn the slightest thing about them. His process of selection is incredibly superficial and fairly shallow and conventional. Having little empathy, life experience and social skills, he struggles to imagine people doing things differently. His little island is the entire world. in other word, the guy has an enormous problem of being hyper-conventional in his belief about relationships and seduction, but he isn’t a very conventional guy when it comes to social skills (being less social than the average man) and emotional maturity. Trying to fit in a circle when you are a square is hard and uncomfortable thing to do, even when you succeed. With a bit of luck, like many MRA types, he will simply age and grow out of it or he will turn in a very bitter person.

Queen of the Harpies
Queen of the Harpies
3 months ago

I dunno, a soft harem might feel nicer than a hard harem, unless it’s full of dudes.

a great deal of those women get very bitter and resentful

Unlike the cool-headed, logical, unflappable MRAs, who would never grow to be so bitter and resentful that they’d blame an entire gender on all of society’s (and their own personal lives) problems. Nope.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
3 months ago

“The women project and think it’s like this for all men and fail to realize the bottom majority of men don’t experience anything like this at all.”

It’s never crossed my mind that all men are so charming and good-looking that they can get any woman they want.

Movie stars? Maybe. Rock stars? Maybe.

But certainly #NotAllMen.

Lollypop
Lollypop
3 months ago

Ah it looks like the mammoth ate my comment. Apologies if it went through and I just can’t see it, because I can’t remember exactly what I said but this will have the same theme…

“women get fooled by these mental retards because outwardly they look like genetic gold but on the inside they have defective genes because of mental issues and behavior disorders”

I always think it is childish (and of course completely wrongheaded) to assume good looking = dumb/mean. Like why does any grown up need to tell themselves that? It’s like believing the world runs along the cheerleader/jock vs. nerds dynamic of 90s teen movies.

Kat in Boots
Kat in Boots
3 months ago

Gotta also love how the genetics get dragged in here to smell very very strongly of eugenics. Oh no, the people who are having children are not as superior as me, *I* should be the one to reproduce cause *I* have all the answers!!! EVOLUTION IS DEAD! WE THE Nice Guy MEN ARE DYING OUT!! IT’S GENOCIDE.

Nope. Nope nope nope. Genetics are complicated and human behaviour is mostly not knowable from looking at a genetic profile, as anyone with a quarter-decent knowledge of genetics could tell you. And what you are talking about is eugenics, and it is not the clean purifying force for good in society that you believe it is. Save your selective breeding ideas for agriculture. smh

Lkeke35
Lkeke35
3 months ago

This heavily reminds me of that scene in A Beautiful Mind where the guy is trying to explain to his buddies, that of the three acceptably lovely looking women who walk into their bar, the worse outcome for themselves would be to all chase after the conventional looking blond.

What they should do instead is all skip the blond, and go for her two friends instead, because at least then everyone will get laid, except for the blond, of course, who will have plenty of other options!

These are the kind of men who will all chase after the blond, and when she rejects all of them, will also be rejected by her friends who don’t want to be treated as second best choices, and then get angry that women don’t want them!

Bottom line is these men aren’t single just on the basis of their looks, they’re also just not bright men, who cannot see the world beyond the top of their nose!

Malintzin
Malintzin
3 months ago

Oh, dear. Aren’t MRA types confident in their superiority to the female half of the human race? So it would be natural for a superior man to be expected to protect, provide, procreate their sperm (sorry, I’m making a senseless hash of the senseless MRA hash). (I don’t think sperm is what this person means, but rather a real, living human child who came from his sperm, legally entitled to his/her father’s financial support.).I do feel sorry for this hypothetical MRA child though, since he/she has such an awful father.

Mimihaha
Mimihaha
3 months ago

I have always been an intelligent, average looking woman. I am invisible to these guys. I am grateful for that.

Pearlette9
Pearlette9
3 months ago

“Feminist writers tend to be angry and bitter”
Kinda sums up the irony of their online circle jerk community droning on because their preference for fantasy over emotional intelligence has resulted in their ability to form mature attachments w/women, so that they cling to whatever scrap of pseudo-scientific nonsense they can find to keep each other united in their infantile rage at the ‘withholding mother’, now transposed just as childishly onto fear of women as sovereign, sexual beings.

Pearlette9
Pearlette9
3 months ago

“Feminist writers tend to be angry and bitter”
Kinda sums up the irony of their online circle jerk community droning on because their preference for fantasy over emotional intelligence has resulted in their ability to form mature attachments w/women, so that they cling to whatever scrap of pseudo-scientific nonsense they can find to keep each other united in their infantile rage at the ‘withholding mother’, now transposed just as childishly onto fear of women as sovereign, sexual beings.

Steph Tohill
Steph Tohill
3 months ago

This is their coping mechanism isn’t it?! They cannot find women who want to have casual sexual with them and decide it must be because they don’t meet some standard of attractiveness.

There are plenty of men who would not be deemed conventionally attractive, who are happily playing the field.

Also – “in the old days they would have been paired off”, actually women who would be tended to be “paired off” would be from the most powerful and wealthy families and it would be to powerful and wealthy men.

And what is somebody’s “league”? Who determines this? The internet has many benefits but allowing men like this to share their opinions is not one of them. They refer to women who have maybe had bad experiences with men as being “bitter and resentful” so what do they call what they are doing on their “oh woe is me” incel Reddit’s (what does women’s dating choices have to do with Men’s rights?)

I am so glad I am single and not looking!

Last edited 3 months ago by Steph Tohill
Steph Tohill
Steph Tohill
3 months ago

PS – Harems and hook-up culture are in direct opposition. If I am having a casual hook-up I won’t be seeing the guy again so how could I be hoping for him to commit?

I wonder how many of these men would be happy to date women they were not attracted.

Last edited 3 months ago by Steph Tohill
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