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Women shouldn’t be allowed to see or speak, explains dude who’s posted 587 times on Incels.is

Helen Keller wants wants nothing to do with your incel ass

They have such … interesting discussions over on the Incels.is forums. And by “interesting” I mean “stomach-churningly horrendous.”

Take, for example, this recent post from a prolific contributor to Incels.is called Kuriboh, who has some novel ideas about the Woman Question.

“Why do women pretend that they are humans ?!” he began.

It is really sick when you see women talking about human values. Imagine a woman shaming you giving you a lesson about respect, acceptance, consideration, appreciation, openness, affection, empathy and love towards other human beings! Imagine a woman talking about God !!

If you believe in God, why do you reject and humiliate men ? … why don’t you give just a small amount of love and affection to desperate men? wouldn’t that save them from suicide or going ER and give them positive energy to benefit the society and build civilization ? … t how can a man live normal when all what he gets is rejection and humiliation ?

A more relevant question: why would any woman want to have anything to do with a man who sees woman like that?

They brutally reject you, call you creep, stalker, ugly, loser, desperate etc they humiliate you and treat you like trash then go to teach others about human values! women are just hypocrite double standard whores!

Kuriboh then gets to the heart of his thesis:

Women are not humans because they don’t care about the human race.Men are the only humans.

This is just horrendous. Do go on.

Men invented values and ethics and everything that gives meaning to the human race.

They probably hunted a few mammoths along the way, too, amirite?

Men sacrifice themselves in wars for peace and justice. They die in the honor of their nations while women betray their nations throwing themselves on the winners.

Yeah, that’s not actually how it works.

Men invented science and religion to save the human race.
If men were selfish, they wouldn’t invent medicine and build hospitals to cure sick and help disabled humans. No man would waste his life learning and working to save other human lives.

Never mind that most of the staff in these hospitals are women.

Oh, but he’s got an rebuttal for that.

If men were selfish, they wouldn’t invent religion and build churches for social cooperation, charity for the poor and hope for desperate humans. … You may tell me there are nurses in hospitals and women in the church, these are like domesticated animals.

They were humanized. Men taught them and used them like a donkey or a dog used in a farm.

I’ll say it again, what!?

Women didn’t invent anything useful for the human race.
Because they are not humans.

Yeah, it’s not so much that women didn’t invent because they aren’t human. It’s that they were undereducated, trapped doing work around the home, and, well, when they did come up with cool stuff men often just stole their inventions and discoveries and claimed all the credit for themselves.

They are disgusting dirty primitive selfish sub human creatures.

We shouldn’t trait them like humans.

A week and a half later, Kuriboh returned with another post setting out some of the implications of that last bit.

“Women shouldn’t have the ability to see and talk!” he declared.

Women only speak shit with their mouth, they call you ugly, creep, desperate, hopeless etc and use it to brutally reject you. [M]en … invented languages to communicate with each other, men … invented music, women didn’t invent anything useful with their dirty mouths.

I’m pretty sure there aren’t many inventors who do much of their work with their mouths.

Women only judge your looks with their eyes, they are shallow superficial creatures who can’t use their eyes to look at deep things.

And by “deep things” he apparently means “my penis.”

If women didn’t have the ability of vision and speech, all men would be able to get laid because they women couldn’t detect lookist standards of men.

Even by incel standards this is perverse.

Nature did a big mistake by giving these abilities to women.

Women would be just objects to fuck and machines to produce children so they only need the senses of touching and tasting to suck your dick!

So strange that this guy can’t get a date.

Doctors in future should turn all newborn females to dumb and blind whores!

Problem solved.

Faith in humanity, waning.

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65 replies on “Women shouldn’t be allowed to see or speak, explains dude who’s posted 587 times on Incels.is”

OK, who built the time machine and brought a Tleilaxu back from the future? 😛

Does he want love or does he want sex? If you want women to be blind and mute so that they can be just sexual object, why not pay a prostitute. They will fuck you as long as you pay them and don’t look like a psychopath who will cut them into pieces. If you want love, he will, sadly, need to learn to love women too. You can’t just call people animals (and view them as such) and expect to be found attractive.

Question: if all the women are blind, how are they going to microwave his hot pockets, navigate the basement stairs, and change his diapers?

@Kinda: All good questions. I guess some of the “real humans” are going to have to become “domesticated animals” to do the dirty work. But not this guy, of course.

Also I love that the first 2 comments referred to Tleilaxu.

@Evanoprost:

why not pay a prostitute

Because that would be treating them at least a little like a person?

Back when incels were starting to become generally known and their spaces weren’t quite so toxic (but still pretty damn toxic), people suggested that all the time. Most of them reacted badly. They wanted highly abusive relationships (with themselves as the abuser), or a porn world where random 15-year-old virgins beg them for sex, or revenge against all women for failing to cure their severe social anxiety (or even occasionally because their mother and/or sister wasn’t into incest), or… just wallow in their own misery. Visiting a sex worker wouldn’t accomplish any of that; and paying a woman for a service means they don’t have absolute power in the situation.

Men sacrifice themselves in wars for peace and justice. 

Men murder for non-violence! They rape in the name of consent!
AND they are the experts on ethics & morality!

YUNOLOVETHEMENZ?

@Acid

:rolls eyes:

What, you’re worried about making sure that good incels aren’t stigmatized?

Color me unenthused about that cause. There are plenty of options available for incels who wish to reeducate themselves. They could start by reading this website. I’m sure that there are also marginal members of the Proud Boys, who miss as many meetings as they intend and haven’t yet actually chased someone down & beaten them in the streets of NYC for the crime of thinking the Proud Boys are violent. Should I leap to defend the reputation of these marginal PBs who aren’t (yet) guilty of street violence because going to a PB meeting might give someone the wrong impression? Nope.

Hang out on incel websites and you get a reputation as … someone who hangs out on incel websites. Upvote sexism and violence, and you get a reputation as someone who supports sexism and violence. Chant “Jews will not replace us” at a rally, get a reputation as someone who embraces racist myths.

Actions have consequences. The fact that people who join incel groups get treated like people who join incel groups is the universe spinning itself along in perfect accord with the same laws that governed it for the last 13 billion years.

Protect them from natural consequences and you get people who do even worse things because they don’t have to fear the natural consequences.

There’s no way I’m going to buddy up to some incel, wrap my arm around his shoulder and tell him, “There, there. It’s okay that you call women sub-human whores to get a laugh since some of the people on that website are much worse than you! Hell, by comparison with Elliot Rodger you’re a saint!”

For various reasons, I think that may send the wrong message.

Women only speak shit with their mouth

I don’t know why, but I found this line especially funny being deployed right in the midst of the rancid firehose of complaints. It’s like listening to a septic tank take credit for the Taj Mahal.

I think I see a slight problem with his program. If all wome are rendered blind and mute at birth, and only to be used for breeding, who’s going to care for them, feed them, wash them etc, until they teach breeding age, and then look after all the children (even the mighty males) when they’re helpless children? It seems like his vision is for men of the future to devote their lives to taking care of women and children.

“Women are not human because they are never kind. The women who are kind don’t count because…they’re not human!” With this kind of hatred I shouldn’t expect to see logic. The same circular logic for why women’s work doesn’t count.
I think it starts with a guy who rather than trying to deal with their insecurities, double down on the beliefs that make them feel like shit. Anger feels more empowering than sadness, and taking responsibility for your own happiness is difficult so they blame everything on women. I think the misogyny is performative, but it still makes them hate women more and more. The idea that a man needs sex to be happy is already absurd and dangerous, but that was just a starting point for the incels.
What’s scary is that there are guys outside the incel community with the same insecurities. Patriarchal society teaches men that they need to be the big (dick) alpha male to get love from women, that getting one night stands is how you prove your value, some men grow out of that, some don’t, a lot understand it’s just a stereotype but worry that it is all true at the back of their mind.

@galanx

I think I see a slight problem with his program. If all wome are rendered blind and mute at birth, and only to be used for breeding, who’s going to care for them, feed them, wash them etc, until they teach breeding age, and then look after all the children (even the mighty males) when they’re helpless children? It seems like his vision is for men of the future to devote their lives to taking care of women and children.

That’s true…his statement also becomes very misandrist when you boil it down, though it is intended to be misogynistic. I’ll keep this in mind for future reference.

@Acid Kritana:

Fuck off with your ableism and your defense of incels.

@ Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner

@Acid Kritana:

Fuck off with your ableism and your defense of incels.

Uh, first off, I’m borderline autistic, so I may have a harder time understanding what people find offensive, so don’t assume and just say you found something I said offensive, and I will fix my language. Second off, please give me a better term to use than crazy, please. Third off, I said that there are bad incels. Some are perfectly fine people. Here, meet one:

Where the Incelosphere Got Its Start: An Interview with an Admin of Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project [Part 3] (home.blog) (a lesbian incel)

If he hates women so much, I think he should live on a desert island or in a place where he would never meet anyone. Problem solved.

We shouldn’t trait them like humans.

Moderate incel: “Women can have a little humanity, as a trait.”

@Acid Kritana

I was going to actually respond to you, but I looked at your link in your handle and realized you’re completely acting in bad faith, so fuck you, you MRA Incel defender.

@Gerry Sherry

all of you?

Ok, I’m confused, and now I’m more confused. How have I been albiest, and if so, how would I fix it?

@Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse

@Acid Kritana

I was going to actually respond to you, but I looked at your link in your handle and realized you’re completely acting in bad faith, so fuck you, you MRA Incel defender.

Um, ew, no, I have a boyfriend, thank you very much. Also he doesn’t care that I’m an MRA. Also, defending GOOD incels, including that one lesbian incel I brought up, is suddenly bad?

One sec:

Obsession With Incels Needs to Stop – Acid Men’s Rights (wordpress.com)

@acid asshole

The woman who coined the term “Incel” has literally nothing to do with what the movement has become, stop using her as cover for the horrible movement. At this point anyone identifying themselves as an Incel knows exactly what movement they’re identifying themselves with.

@Acid
The problem is your use of the word “crazy”. Have you read the comments policy?

The ableism when he used the word crazy. That is ableism. Also, it is totally possible for someone to be ableist while having a disability. You being autistic does not make it ok to use ableist language.

You can say he’s wrong or you don’t agree with him or his ideas are extreme.

I realize I reacted a little strongly. A huge part of my town burned down last week and that has been really hard. Everyone in my area is a weird combination of sad and angry but also feeling grateful to be alive so I’m kind of a mess. I’m also a person with disabilities, and the ableism just sent me over the edge.

I also don’t believe you’re here in good faith. I’m willing to be proven otherwise, but we get a lot of trolls here. We take getting them off the site very seriously.

@ Acid Kritana

defending GOOD incels, including that one lesbian incel I brought up, is suddenly bad?

One sec:

I have a question for you: Would you defend a good Nazi? If not, why not? There certainly were/ are Nazis that saw/ see themselves as a threatened, ostracized group of people that just want/ed to defend their homeland and values from outside influences they deem dangerous and wrong… Nazism derives from nationalism, which at the heart isn’t all that different from patriotism and many people agree on patriotism being a good thing, right?

See how I’m arguing in extremely bad faith here?

As others have alreade written. The problem with defending “inceldom” is that it’s been completely taken over by people who see women as less than human. At best people get pulled in by the original promise of a safe heaven for people who’re “romantically inept”. But once they realise they’ve ended up in the company of people literally fantasizing about killing, torturing and raping women and destroying society as it is and not get out? That’s on them and that’s what destroyed the original intent of the “community”. And it’s certainly not anyones job to “educate” someone on how “women are people, too”.

Not that I think the original idea of “involuntary celibacy” had much merit in the first place. I feel the “incel-community” was kinda fated to end up where it is now from the start, because there’s an built in element of entitlement communicated by “incel”. Because a) it’s just the wrong choice of word for something that traditionally involves more than one person and b) in a practical sense, celibacy is always voluntary.

Oh and regarding “crazy”. Conventional use of words may be hard to control, but a) crazy and hysteric are culturally loaded terms to lump people with an array of problems into a marginalized group. Crazy is just a way to say: That person shouldn’t be taken seriously. And you did just that: Implying that mental health issues cause someone to spew dehumanizing hate and that the people who hang around that hate are A-OK

In case i wasn’t clear, most of that is directed at Acid. I’m sure people know that but it didn’t seem as clear to me in my second reading.

I’m currently single so I suppose that makes me “involuntarily celibate”. Of course, I want a partner. I’m human so I analyze what went wrong in my previous relationships and I want to find the right one the next time. I just wouldn’t waste time labeling myself or trashing men (I’m hetero so that’s why I mention men). I suppose this would not apply to this incels commenter since as a man instead of improving himself and looking for a person who likes him he spills a lot of digital ink bitching about women. Loser.

I wish there were a way to unilaterally revoke usernames from other people on the Internet. This guy doesn’t deserve to be associated with Kuriboh.

Yutolia,

I’m so sorry to hear about your town. And Acid Kritana has been here defending incels and MRAs several times before, so definitely no need to give him the benefit of the doubt or be nice.

Even if he was a new arrival, anyone who sees this kind of horrifying violent genocidal misogyny from a member of a group that has now turned out multiple murderers and has the impulse to defend the group can just fuck right off.

@Yutolia, I think you live near my brother (his town “only” got the smoke from yours) and you have my sympathies. He and I are both disabled, and I send you gentle hugs.

@Malintzin, you aren’t an incel, you’re just… between partners. In a dry spell. You haven’t made your lack of sex-having into your entire personality.

Gerry Sherry,

I’m pretty sure he’s told us he’s a young dude. Like, still kid or kid-adjacent (late teens). Until he says otherwise, I’m gonna respect that.

He’s also coming off a long mod spell, earned by being a jerk to Elaine. If he can keep to a dull irritation, I’m okay with him hanging around in the hope that maybe he’ll drag himself out of the pit he’s mired himself in.

I’ve got some naive optimism at play, on account of the being a young bloke thing.

But if he starts being an ultra-jerk again, I’ll be right with you on the permanent ban-hammer request.

Speaking of whom … where is Elaine? And Naglfar’s been gone even longer…

@WWTH

Yeah, sometimes I have this thing where I feel horrible for getting angry. But then I try to remind myself that sometimes I have reasons to be pissed, like ableism and incels. I am getting better but sometimes I backslide. Thanks as always for the support and I will stand by my fuck off to Acid.

@GSS:
I’m glad your brother is ok. Last week was terrifying and very sad.

On the Equal rights, equal fights thread, @Acid Kritana says they are nearly 18 years old, and possibly pregnant:

“Also I know women can hit hard. I’m physically female, and don’t work out (previously this was because of laziness, but now it’s possible that I may have accidentally gotten pregnant, so not fun, but at least I’m almost18, so I won’t have to stay home and possibly be pressured into an abortion, because I personally wouldn’t want one), but I can slap someone so hard that they feel it beyond 24 hours (the person asked me to, as I found found I have an iron grip and they wanted to know if I could really slap hard). I can’t punch for the life of me, but I can certainly slap. Though I don’t go around doing it. “

Look, I hate being put in the position of defending a troll, but trans men exist regardless of pregnancy status.

And Acid identifies as male in multiple posts I’ve seen of his.

For instance: one of the earliest recollections I have of him being active in the comments.

Say what you will about his positions, but until he says otherwise, he’s a guy. I’m sorry if this feels like I’m coming on harsh in this, but saying a trans guy comes off like a woman really gets my goat.

Acid is doing a cruddy thing with the not-all-incels, but… not cool.

I don’t think it’s malicious; none of us can monitor and remember every conversation. But can we knock it off?

We can do way better than this, folks

@Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse

@acid asshole

The woman who coined the term “Incel” has literally nothing to do with what the movement has become, stop using her as cover for the horrible movement. At this point anyone identifying themselves as an Incel knows exactly what movement they’re identifying themselves with.

I don’t care who coined the term incel. History is cool, but my point was to bring the lesbian incel as an example of a non-bad incel, based off of what I know of her so far.

Also, my friend who took the interview is also a woman.

And I’m pretty sure she’s not an incel (the lesbian interviewed is), and I’m not one either (proof is I may have accidentally gotten pregnant at 17, almost 18 – oops)

@Makroth

@Acid

The problem is your use of the word “crazy”. Have you read the comments policy?

I remember that now. I read it a while ago, but it’s been a hot minute since I’ve been on the site, so I forgot. I apologize, and will reread it again to refresh my memory.

Also I would never call a mentally ill person “crazy.” I think that would be horribly offensive. Especially considering the fact that when I talked about a schizophrenic to a science class they laughed, a couple years ago, which I did not find funny. You don’t make fun of people for things they can’t control, and that includes calling them “crazy.”

@Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner

The ableism when he used the word crazy. That is ableism. Also, it is totally possible for someone to be ableist while having a disability. You being autistic does not make it ok to use ableist language.

As I said to @Makroth, I apologize for that. I stated that I am borderline autistic to clarify that I have a harder time understanding people, so I definitely have a harder time understanding what may offend others. But if it offends you, I’ll stop using it. Just like how I find the term “cracker” offensive (just like I do for the n-word), I can understand that some things may be more offensive to others.

You can say he’s wrong or you don’t agree with him or his ideas are extreme.

Thank you for giving me some things I could use instead.

I realize I reacted a little strongly. A huge part of my town burned down last week and that has been really hard. Everyone in my area is a weird combination of sad and angry but also feeling grateful to be alive so I’m kind of a mess. I’m also a person with disabilities, and the ableism just sent me over the edge.

I’m very sorry that happened to you. That would be very traumatizing and could certainly put you over the edge. Certainly seems a lot worse than the possibility that I may have accidentally gotten pregnant at 17/18. I hope it gets better. If it does, please let me know.

I also don’t believe you’re here in good faith. I’m willing to be proven otherwise, but we get a lot of trolls here. We take getting them off the site very seriously.

You don’t have to believe I’m here in good faith. I’m not a troll, I just like to read David Futrelle’s articles and react to them, both on my site and in comments. Some of them I agree with; others I do not. I react accordingly. I react differently on my site than on here, but that’s just for my viewers vs you guys. Completely different audience. Especially considering that I have my own audience, and you guys are David Futrelle’s audience.

@rusalka

@ Acid Kritana

> defending GOOD incels, including that one lesbian incel I brought up, is suddenly bad

> One sec:

I have a question for you: Would you defend a good Nazi? If not, why not?

What do Nazis have to do with incels?

There certainly were/ are Nazis that saw/ see themselves as a threatened, ostracized group of people that just want/ed to defend their homeland and values from outside influences they deem dangerous and wrong… Nazism derives from nationalism, which at the heart isn’t all that different from patriotism and many people agree on patriotism being a good thing, right?

See how I’m arguing in extremely bad faith here?

Ok, I guess, but I have a cuncussion still, so my brain isn’t exactly in full gear. I’m getting out of it, but I’m still confused. I have no idea what you said, to be honest.

As others have alreade written. The problem with defending “inceldom” is that it’s been completely taken over by people who see women as less than human. At best people get pulled in by the original promise of a safe heaven for people who’re “romantically inept”. But once they realise they’ve ended up in the company of people literally fantasizing about killing, torturing and raping women and destroying society as it is and not get out? That’s on them and that’s what destroyed the original intent of the “community”. And it’s certainly not anyones job to “educate” someone on how “women are people, too”.

I’m defending SPECIFIC incels, not the whole community.

However, if you’re interested in an article I wrote on incels, feel free to check out the link below. Otherwise, why are y’all obsessed with them? That’s my question.

Obsession With Incels Needs to Stop – Acid Men’s Rights (wordpress.com)

Not that I think the original idea of “involuntary celibacy” had much merit in the first place. I feel the “incel-community” was kinda fated to end up where it is now from the start, because there’s an built in element of entitlement communicated by “incel”. Because a) it’s just the wrong choice of word for something that traditionally involves more than one person and b) in a practical sense, celibacy is always voluntary.

Many incel communities are built off inherently…flawed beliefs, but separate incels may not be the same. I’m not an incel – as I’ve told people I may have accidentally gotten pregnant as a teen (currently) – but they are NOT a monolith.

Oh and regarding “crazy”. Conventional use of words may be hard to control, but a) crazy and hysteric are culturally loaded terms to lump people with an array of problems into a marginalized group. Crazy is just a way to say: That person shouldn’t be taken seriously. And you did just that: Implying that mental health issues cause someone to spew dehumanizing hate and that the people who hang around that hate are A-OK

I did not mean to. I won’t do it again.

@Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner

In case i wasn’t clear, most of that is directed at Acid. I’m sure people know that but it didn’t seem as clear to me in my second reading.

I got that. I honestly thought you put my tag in there, but I looked back and you hadn’t. I can see your side, even if I disagree with some things you say.

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Yutolia,

I’m so sorry to hear about your town. And Acid Kritana has been here defending incels and MRAs several times before, so definitely no need to give him the benefit of the doubt or be nice.

I defend those who I know, and I are nice. For example, my gay friend in the UK who owns a Men’s Rights site and is an MRA!

Home – Men Are Human

He even let me post an article on his site, and I’m going to submit more to him:

Men Have It Better? A Trans MRA Weighs In – Men Are Human

Even if he was a new arrival, anyone who sees this kind of horrifying violent genocidal misogyny from a member of a group that has now turned out multiple murderers and has the impulse to defend the group can just fuck right off.

I only defend the nice ones I know or have heard of that are nice…

For example, I hate Elliot Rodger.

@Gerry Sherry

David can we ban this new mra already?

Sorry to break it to you Chief, but I’ve been on here for over a year.

Also for some reason I see them as a woman

To clear it up, I’m a trans dude. A gay one, hence why I may possibly be pregnant. I kind of hope I’m not…not only am I too young, but the dude kind of abandoned me. So yeah, it kind of sucks. But he’s always welcome to the kid any time if he wants.

@contrapangloss

Gerry Sherry,

I’m pretty sure he’s told us he’s a young dude. Like, still kid or kid-adjacent (late teens). Until he says otherwise, I’m gonna respect that.

Yup! I am a 17 year old gay trans dude who is going to turn 18 in a couple months.

He’s also coming off a long mod spell, earned by being a jerk to Elaine. If he can keep to a dull irritation, I’m okay with him hanging around in the hope that maybe he’ll drag himself out of the pit he’s mired himself in.

Actually, I had a summer without a computer, and I’ve been busy.

I’ve got some naive optimism at play, on account of the being a young bloke thing.

But if he starts being an ultra-jerk again, I’ll be right with you on the permanent ban-hammer request.

Um, ok. You could just let me know when I’m being a jerk?

@Surplus to Requirements

Speaking of whom … where is Elaine? And Naglfar’s been gone even longer…

Good question. I was wondering where my favorite commentators went.

@Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner

@WWTH

Yeah, sometimes I have this thing where I feel horrible for getting angry. But then I try to remind myself that sometimes I have reasons to be pissed, like ableism and incels. I am getting better but sometimes I backslide. Thanks as always for the support and I will stand by my fuck off to Acid.

@GSS:

I’m glad your brother is ok. Last week was terrifying and very sad.

I used to be angry, at religious people, but then I stopped, and they started being nice to me. It was actually pretty great. Except for the religious people who are still rude to me. People have actually broken up with me for being an atheist, 3 times before!

@Lizzie

On the Equal rights, equal fights thread, @Acid Kritana says they are nearly 18 years old, and possibly pregnant:

“Also I know women can hit hard. I’m physically female, and don’t work out (previously this was because of laziness, but now it’s possible that I may have accidentally gotten pregnant, so not fun, but at least I’m almost18, so I won’t have to stay home and possibly be pressured into an abortion, because I personally wouldn’t want one), but I can slap someone so hard that they feel it beyond 24 hours (the person asked me to, as I found found I have an iron grip and they wanted to know if I could really slap hard). I can’t punch for the life of me, but I can certainly slap. Though I don’t go around doing it. “

Uh, yes. Me and the dude didn’t start off with a condom, and I feel like I lost all my brain cells to do that, now.

@contrapangloss

Look, I hate being put in the position of defending a troll, but trans men exist regardless of pregnancy status.

And Acid identifies as male in multiple posts I’ve seen of his.

For instance: one of the earliest recollections I have of him being active in the comments.

Yes indeed!

Say what you will about his positions, but until he says otherwise, he’s a guy. I’m sorry if this feels like I’m coming on harsh in this, but saying a trans guy comes off like a woman really gets my goat.

Acid is doing a cruddy thing with the not-all-incels, but… not cool.

I don’t think it’s malicious; none of us can monitor and remember every conversation. But can we knock it off?

We can do way better than this, folks

I think Gerry (I have no idea how they identify) mistook it. But thanks for defending me anyway. It means a lot to me.

Acid, don’t get too many good feelings about me defending you: I’ll defend your right to be respected as a person any day, but that doesn’t mean I agree with you on any other axis.

I still think your priorities need sorting, your estimates of the population of sweet and kind self-identifying-incels are drastically overblown, and your mitigation strategy for handling the more murderous sect is bogus.

How do you re-educate incels who celebrate ER, or hate him for not being good enough at murdering people?

How do you show people who casually joke about suicide or even talk earnestly or desperately about it (cope and rope) that part of the reason they’re so hopeless is because of the cesspit of bad advice they’re steeping their online communities in?

And what do you propose we re-educate them with? The incel community at large seem to object to the more feminist leanings of teaching about consent, sex positivity, and limiting (also called toxic) masculinity… so, what curriculum do you propose that they would not reject out of hand?

What teachers do you propose that they won’t want to see dead (or at least embarrassingly inconvenienced)?

I don’t doubt that there are guys out there who don’t have a partner and feel lonely. I have some friends in that situation, it sucks. Especially for the allosexual friends.

I would never point them at an incel forum as a support group, though.

Those spheres (even when started with the best intentions, like in the case of the lady who coined the term once upon a time) do not tend to stay healthy. While the shallow end can seem nice and reasonable and reassuring if you’re in the right place, it’s way too easy to drift into the depths that transform loneliness into self-hatred, and then rage at everyone outside the pool.

I’m going to sign off for now. Just think about it.

Side note: I think I recall you being creepy towards Elaine in the past, via making unnecessary comments about your interest. I think it was the bi-Superman thread, but I could be off..z or conflating you with a different troll (it happens – like with me thinking you actually got put in the mod-bin).

Maaaaybe don’t call her one of your favorites. Because with that context, it comes off a bit creepy – which would be jerk territory. Just my two cents there, on your request to tell you things that are jerkish so you can Not Do Them Again.

@contrapangloss

Acid, don’t get too many good feelings about me defending you: I’ll defend your right to be respected as a person any day, but that doesn’t mean I agree with you on any other axis.

I don’t have too many good feelings about you, except for you defending me on that. I can be glad that you defended me once, yes? What, do you want me to hate you next time instead? And don’t assume I think that you agree with me on other things. Cause I certainly don’t agree with a lot of things you say.

I still think your priorities need sorting, your estimates of the population of sweet and kind self-identifying-incels are drastically overblown, and your mitigation strategy for handling the more murderous sect is bogus.

I made no estimations. I merely said the nice incels I know. And I made no such strategy. If you want, I will, but I didn’t make one originally.

How do you re-educate incels who celebrate ER, or hate him for not being good enough at murdering people?

That depends. I’ve read your other questions, so I’ll expand on it there.

How do you show people who casually joke about suicide or even talk earnestly or desperately about it (cope and rope) that part of the reason they’re so hopeless is because of the cesspit of bad advice they’re steeping their online communities in?

There are 2 kinds of people who joke about suicide: those who are suicidal and those who are not. I’ve read that joking about suicide, when you are a suicidal person, can actually be therapeutic, but for those who aren’t suicidal, it’s just wrong. As for the online communities? I don’t know if you can really show them that, as it (trying to get them out) may push them further in. However, someone they trust can try to help them, and let them see that there is good in the real world, and they may want to go explore it a bit, which may detach them from said harmful communities. Just a theory, however.

And what do you propose we re-educate them with? The incel community at large seem to object to the more feminist leanings of teaching about consent, sex positivity, and limiting (also called toxic) masculinity… so, what curriculum do you propose that they would not reject out of hand?

Well, the first thing you would want to do is to get them to WANT to hear about it in the first place. Do this in a couple ways.

1.) Say it’s not their fault that no one that they know of wants to have sex with them, show them some compassion. It will get them to warm up to you, and be more willing to listen to you. They won’t close off as easy.

2.) Listen to their side, as well. If you want them to listen to you, expect to let them talk about what they think to you. Let them vent. Once they get it out (and do NOT interrupt or break in at any point until they’re finished talking), you can talk to them, and try to get them to see why they think that way.

3.) Show them you understand, and care about their viewpoint. If they feel like you care about them, they tend to become much more willing to listen to you.

I’m not the only person to ask these questions, by the way. You can visit the Men’s Rights discord and see what they think can be done on the matter. https://discord.gg/vu2nCKK

What teachers do you propose that they won’t want to see dead (or at least embarrassingly inconvenienced)?

I could be one, if you like. There are also others, including nice incels and other MRAs who would be willing to take up the job. Also, people who show they care would also be good teachers.

I don’t doubt that there are guys out there who don’t have a partner and feel lonely. I have some friends in that situation, it sucks. Especially for the allosexual friends.

I just looked it up, and apparently allosexual is the opposite of asexual, so like me then. Ok. It does suck to be in that situation. And showing them a little sympathy, a little empathy, goes a long way. It can change someone’s life.

I would never point them at an incel forum as a support group, though.

Neither would I. They could talk to me about it, if they wanted to. I’m absolutely fine with listening to them about it.

Those spheres (even when started with the best intentions, like in the case of the lady who coined the term once upon a time) do not tend to stay healthy. While the shallow end can seem nice and reasonable and reassuring if you’re in the right place, it’s way too easy to drift into the depths that transform loneliness into self-hatred, and then rage at everyone outside the pool.

I know. When I first started off anti-religious, it grew and grew…until hatred was all that consumed me. I let it go, and suddenly I felt free.

I’m going to sign off for now. Just think about it.

I am. Thanks for giving me some things to work with. It’s actually pretty helpful! So thanks.

Side note: I think I recall you being creepy towards Elaine in the past, via making unnecessary comments about your interest. I think it was the bi-Superman thread, but I could be off..z or conflating you with a different troll (it happens – like with me thinking you actually got put in the mod-bin).

Yes, I’m sorry about that. I went on that post and apologized. I said it in the wrong context.

Maaaaybe don’t call her one of your favorites. Because with that context, it comes off a bit creepy – which would be jerk territory. Just my two cents there, on your request to tell you things that are jerkish so you can Not Do Them Again.

I won’t do it again. But, just to clarify, I just said it because we parred often. It was a joke. Maybe I should put /s next time. Clear up what I mean.

Until next time Chief

In the voice of Am from the game version of “I have no mouth and I must scream”: ‘you’re my favorite, Elaine!’

Acid, I’m so sorry for misgendering you. My pronouns are they/them so don’t worry about misgendering me. I should have read you posts better. I’m assuming your pronouns are he/him?

Also I’m willing to give you a second chance but tone down the incel apologist rhetoric. This not all men stuff is so cringy. Bring better more nuanced arguments.

I’m relatively new here so I’m a bit clueless about how this site runs and when people should or shouldn’t get banned.

Will you forgive me?

@Acid:

I used to be angry, at religious people, but then I stopped, and they started being nice to me. It was actually pretty great. Except for the religious people who are still rude to me. People have actually broken up with me for being an atheist, 3 times before!

ummmmm… part of the reason I dislike incels is because a bunch of people I used to spend time with and was very nice (I made the mistake that we were friends) to turned out to be a bunch of assholes who were being nice to manipulate me into sleeping with them. I don’t have to be nice to people who think I owe them just for existing and looking like something they want to have for themselves. And yes, I say “something” because these people truly see women as objects. And don’t compare yourselves to religious people, not all religious people as a group actively support mass murderers. Incels do. You also don’t get to tell me what to be angry about so again fuck off with your “oh if you’d just be nice” bullshit.

I’m sorry people are misgendering you. That isn’t ok.

@AcidKritana I don’t want my blog linked on this site. There’s a disclaimer on part one of that interview series you linked explaining that my views on that community have changed. The lesbian incel I interviewed was lovely, but she was part of the community before it became what it is today. I was very gung-ho whiteknight-the-incels for about three years. They were all very mean to me and I excused and minimized that bad behavior until one of them was so ridiculously cruel that it forced me to admit I’d been backing the baddies.

I’d like to stop getting traffic from this website.

@Gerry Sherry

In the voice of Am from the game version of “I have no mouth and I must scream”: ‘you’re my favorite, Elaine!’

Acid, I’m so sorry for misgendering you. My pronouns are they/them so don’t worry about misgendering me. I should have read you posts better. I’m assuming your pronouns are he/him?

It’s ok. I was honestly laughing at how much people were discussing it lol. Yes, they are he/him.

Also I’m willing to give you a second chance but tone down the incel apologist rhetoric. This not all men stuff is so cringy. Bring better more nuanced arguments.

I do not accept the bad incels. I only support the nice ones I know. Also, the not all arument can be applied ANYWHERE: for example, not all feminists hate trans people. This is obvious. The majority do not. It would be better to say “some feminists hate trans people.” But there is a reason I was avoiding that specific statement. I KNEW you guys were gonna react that way.

I’m relatively new here so I’m a bit clueless about how this site runs and when people should or shouldn’t get banned.

Will you forgive me?

Of course I’ll forgive you. Why wouldn’t I?

@Yutolia the Laissez-Fairy Pronoun Boner

@Acid:

> I used to be angry, at religious people, but then I stopped, and they started being nice to me. It was actually pretty great. Except for the religious people who are still rude to me. People have actually broken up with me for being an atheist, 3 times before!

ummmmm… part of the reason I dislike incels is because a bunch of people I used to spend time with and was very nice (I made the mistake that we were friends) to turned out to be a bunch of assholes who were being nice to manipulate me into sleeping with them.

Aren’t those Pick Up Artists (PUAs)? Why are you associating them with incels then? Don’t incels not like women at all while PUAs try to manipulate them into sex? (In this case, I’m talking about male PUAs that go after women. There are also male PUAs that go after men, and female PUAs that go after men and/or women. They all tend to have different tactics, but it’s all based on the same degrading trying-to-get-them-into-bed basis.)

I don’t have to be nice to people who think I owe them just for existing and looking like something they want to have for themselves. And yes, I say “something” because these people truly see women as objects.

I don’t argue with that. PUAs see women and/or men (depending on their target) as objects to be earned: through manipulation.

Again, what does this have to do with incels?

And don’t compare yourselves to religious people, not all religious people as a group actively support mass murderers. Incels do. You also don’t get to tell me what to be angry about so again fuck off with your “oh if you’d just be nice” bullshit.

I’m not an incel first off, as I’ve explained before (how many times must I say I might have accidentally gotten pregnant?), and I was just using it as an example…I used to think religious people as a group (with exceptions) were hateful, but changed my views. Calm down. And you’re literally making broad generalizations about ALL incels. It’s ok to believe that groups of incels are this way – of course there are, I’ve come across them, and many of them seem to think that either MRAs are bad or that we can’t do anything for men. I wasn’t telling you to be angry or not be angry. I was merely bringing that up since you asked me questions and I answered. By being empathetic to incels, a lot I’ve met have actually been pretty nice to me.

I’m sorry people are misgendering you. That isn’t ok.

Honestly, I didn’t care much, but it was still nice for you to defend me on that. They weren’t doing it on purpose, so they weren’t doing it to be rude. So it’s ok.

Chiming in again, on this fine day!

I don’t have too many good feelings about you, except for you defending me on that. I can be glad that you defended me once, yes? What, do you want me to hate you next time instead?

Everything in moderation, Acid.

Do I want you to like me in the “you think you can talk me into supporting your position” way?

No. I’m open to those conversations, but I try to save the energy for them for my friends who are vulnerable to slipping into dangerous ideologies.

And I’m cautious with those conversations, because it’s really easy to get pulled into bad places.

See every person who’s joined a cult. See the journalist who went to try and do an in depth look into Westboro and ended up joining them. See the frankly shocking number of people who started being flat earth true believers as adults.

People can be deradicalized, but radicalization seems like it happens so much faster. Not everyone can be the friendly stepping stone for people escaping the pit, without falling in themselves.

So, no, I don’t want you to think I’m available to you in particular for those conversations: I’ve only got so much time and energy, and have people I’m trying to save it for. I don’t want to be your friend.

Do I want you to hate me?

No.

Honestly? I’d rather your neutrality – the recognition that I don’t want to be your friend but also do not wish you harm.

I sometimes veer into giving advice because I want you (like I want most people) to find a way to live that is good for you and those you impact…

…But I veer into harshness because I don’t want to build my emotional investment in you getting there.

I’ve seen lots of people try to help incels by being nice to them, including here. It never works. Not if they don’t want to change.

Now, I think it’s worth trying to help someone you know personally if you see them going down a bad path. But, the chances of leading a stranger on the internet out of incel, or any other hate movement is just about nil. So yeah, not going to be nice them. Nor am I going to entertain defenses of them.

It’s really never worth being nice to an incel if you have a vagina. Their just gonna start wishing rape and death upon you.

I haven’t been well since y’all have been asking. Had bronchitis that turned into Pneumonia. Been trying not to die. People in my family have been dying. Been depressed about the miscarriages. Been thinking about giving up getting pregnant. I’m just not okay. The man lying next to me asleep right now has been the only thing keeping me going. I’m just very numb. and I don’t want to let go of the numbness because I know the second, I do, it’s just gonna be pain.

Our priest told me, God never sends us more of a storm then what we can weather. and that I have all the tools I need to get through it as long as let those tool in and use them. I don’t know how to do that right now. I can’t even dance. Can’t even walk to the bathroom without getting winded. I’m just miserable right now. But when he looks at me with all the love in his eyes. I know I can keep going another day for him. If I didn’t have this man that loved me so much, this world probably would have killed me a long time ago.

So don’t nobody worried about me checking out on y’all. If God or the Devil want me dead, their gonna have to kill me themselves. I’ve survived way too much to off myself.

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