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Why pickup artists see Donald Trump as the ultimate alpha male

Donald Trump: Red Pill idol
Donald Trump: Red Pill idol

So Amanda Marcotte has a nice piece in Salon today on the adoration the world’s most repellant pickup artists feel towards Donald Trump:

Pickup artists like Daryush Valizadeh, who goes by the name “Roosh” … and James C. Weidmann, who goes by the ridiculous name Heartiste, absolutely adore Trump. In him, they see a kindred spirit, a man who believes women exist to be submissive and flattering and provide sex and have no value outside of that.

I shared some thoughts on the subject with her via email:

“Trump is, in many ways, their ideal alpha male, an arrogant, deliberately obnoxious asshole who treats women like shit but has a former model more than twenty years his junior as a wife,” Futrelle told me over email. “It doesn’t hurt that she’s Eastern European; PUAs like Roosh Valizadeh contend that American women are basically spoiled by too much feminism, and see Eastern European women, by contrast, as relatively unspoiled.”

Marcotte takes a look at some of the gushing tributes to Trump that Heartiste and Matt Forney have spilled on the internet, then peeks into the Red Pull subreddit, which, she writes,

is teeming with discussion threads positing that Trump is a role model and that the disrespect and abuse he dishes out to women is behavior to imitate.

 “Donald Trump teaches us something very important. Never bow down when put on the spot in front of a women,” one poster’s headline declares. In it, the poster explains that the way Trump treated Megyn Kelly, i.e., being a dick to her, was how men generally should, uh, handle women.

“This is a vital lesson to all men. Never ever let the hottest girl in the room manipulate you and break your frame. Never give in,” the poster writes. (“Your frame” is pickup artist lingo for trying to project an aura of overconfidence and stubbornness, or mostly just about being a bully.) “Even if you make a mistake, NEVER apologize to a girl.” 

Kelly is 45, a bit old to be “a girl.” Come to think of it, isn’t she way too old to be the “hottest girl in the room,” at least according to Red Pill dogma, which posits that women all “hit the wall” by age 30, if not earlier, and are shortly afterwards transformed into ancient crones fit only for cohabiting with cats?

And, wait a minute, isn’t Melania Trump 46? Why hasn’t alpha dog Trump traded her in for some 19-year-old Ukrainian hottie?

Could it be that the “the wall” isn’t really a thing. not even to the Red Pillers who talk about it all the time? Could “the wall” be little more than a revenge fantasy of Red Pillers who desperately want to believe that the young women who turn them down will someday face their comeuppance by suddenly contracting a case of the uglies?

Marcotte finds herself wondering something rather similar, suggesting at the end of her piece that perhaps

“pickup artistry” is not really about improving your game with the ladies, so much as it’s about giving men permission to belittle and bully women under the guise of becoming “alpha.”

That such men would love Trump, then, is no surprise. Trump is loud, orange, stupid, and ridiculous, but he is a bully, and to the pickup artist community, that’s what it takes to be a man.

Yep.

 

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Peep
Peep
6 years ago

Whoops, forgot to add this one:

Nicki Minaj, “Envy” (For maximum oomph)

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
6 years ago

Sorry to come in for a brief derail of sorts, but I wanted to thank the people who have given me advice about my personal/professional situation (invitation to speak to a group about DV etc). I also wanted to share a little update as things are making a bit more sense now…

I decided to ask the person who approached me for more details on the situation, and found out that several of the women who would be in attendance have expressed that they have a great deal of distrust for professionals in the legal system because their previous experiences with those professionals has displayed a profound lack of ‘getting’ what these women are going through. It’s not that the professionals aren’t performing the functions of their jobs correctly, but at least from my experience, we’re pushed to be detached and to focus on the survivor needing to ‘get out of the situation’, whether they’ve ‘gotten out’, and I understand why the professionals tend to go that direction. The survivors have wound up feeling like there’s a ‘client number’ stamped on them and after steps X-Y-Z they are tossed into the file cabinet in the basement. They also worry that because of what they’ve been experiencing and how much many of them are having to ‘catch up’ on to move forward in life, they are just “sad disadvantaged victims” that are someone’s good deeds to check off…My experiences in life may not be the exact same, but I was in an abusive relationship, had to do a lot of catching up in life, and I don’t see survivors as good deeds that will make me look awesome to my legal professional friends and others. I know how hard it is to do the ‘getting out’, and things are always more complex than just leaving. I now wonder if there’s some way to teach colleagues that helping is great, but we have more success with helping when the help feels safe and the person helped feels they’re not just another ‘charity’ case.

And I’ve decided to do the talk.

So thank you. 🙂

Axecalibur
Axecalibur
6 years ago

@Chio

“I was just wondering how long it would take for you to say something, haha”

This is not a red flag, it’s an alarm siren
I said it, I meant it, it bears repeating: He is a METEOR

He is anti feminist but not a misogynist in ANY possible interpretation of the word

I am not a feminist. I wouldn’t even consider myself an ally. I am also not a misogynist, or at least not a raging one (we all have thoughts we wish we didn’t). Yes, I’m ‘that guy’. This comes from pesonal experience. Trust me when I say this. There are plenty of interpretations of that word, into which he fits quite snuggly. ‘Not as bad as Roosh’ is something you say about a misogynist. If I ever did anything to warrant a Roosh comparison… I just couldn’t

I don’t wanna pick on you. I’m not tryna get too personal or attack you. Please, anyone and everyone, call me out, if that’s what I’m doing, but I gotta be blunt here. You’re reasons for staying seem to be as follows:
1)he used to be a better person
Meaningless. That ‘used to be’ shouldn’t be there. That’s a problem
2)he’s not quite as bad as racist, misogynist, serial rapist Roosh V
Low. Fucking. Bar
3)if I leave, I’m hurting him
If you stay, he’s hurting you
4)if I leave, I’ll be lonely
I repeat, you’re already alone. This shit right here is not what ‘together’ should feel like. I’m not currently nor have I ever been ‘together’ (I’ve seen movies, fuck it ?), so maybe I’m way off base, but this ain’t OK. You have the right to standards. You have the right to a loving, caring, decent, supportive, and compatible partner. That’s and, not ‘or’, *AND*

I can’t and won’t tell you what to do with your own life. I can and will hint very strongly in a particular direction

Zatar
Zatar
6 years ago

Chiomara:

I don’t really have any specific advice, since the majority has covered this fairly we but re: intelligence and attraction. I have this too. I don’t think that its an unacceptable. Its your life, and no one can dictate what you should or shouldn’t be attracted to.

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

@Orion

Huummmm. Yes. You once again hit the nail right at the center of the head. He tends to either cause people to be completely disgusted by him or so enchanted and magnetized by how confusing, frustrating AND rewarding he is. Yes, as crazy as it seems he is VERY rewarding. It’s like a rollercoaster.
Sometimes I feel the bad parts can only be because his brain is simply emotionally and socially (forgive the word, please, cant think of any other) retarded sometimes and he HONESTLY does not understand what is he doing wrong and he is trying to get better but it’s difficult because there just is something off with him, either because he was born like that or because he has lived through so much horrible shit and has COMPULSIVELY seducted people for so long he simply unlearned how to “human” or turn it off. And then I think, dammit, it’s not his fault, he is trying to get better. He has changed SO MUCH, SO SHORTLY and he will change more out of fear of losing me and everyone else. I just have to be more patient. I will regret losing such a great guy.
But sometimes I think it may just all be a huge net of lies and pretending, built for no reason other than the feeling of power. Of course, in the next morning he explains or sugar coats everything and though I still act suspicious and rude not to lower my guard too fast, I just fall for him all over again and am sure he either didn’t mean no harm or just lacks the emotional intelligence to see the harm he caused. I just… don’t know.

Today, for example, he just said he thought better and talked to some friends and said i’m right, the tone and choice of words were terrible and poorly thought, he shouldnt act like he knows more about my reality than me, he agrees women are opressed in my country, that feminism is very necessary here because X,Y and Z, but not too necessary in germany because A, B and C, a degree of socialism is important because xyz, that LGBTQ matters is the biggest reason he is against Merkel, that if we can avoid this kind of subject he promises he will never even mention muslims again and will try to distance himself from those youtubers because, even though he doesn’t think it would be fair for me to censor it, he will do it because he doesn’t want to repell me, that he intends to this and that for german social causes and if that’s what it takes to make a better world for me, my friends and our future kids he will make sure to take me to a topless protest so I feel safe and repeat whatever moto im yelling. That this week without me will be hard and he can’t believe he messed up this bad.
And look at me, I am all melted up, all over again. Believing and dying to forgive him again. Unbelievable.

Shaenon
6 years ago

I’m sorry, but that doesn’t sound lovely to me. It sounds troubling, inappropriate, and just plain weird.

Agreed. I wasn’t going to weigh in because telling someone whether or not they should leave a relationship is beyond my pay grade, and I’m sure this guy has good qualities. Everyone does.

But the thing with the therapist… That doesn’t sound like a socially awkward schlub who accidentally upsets people. That sounds like a manipulator who enjoys jerking people around. It sounds like someone who knows exactly what he’s doing.

Your relationship is long-distance. That makes it easy for him to control the way he presents himself to you. Same with the therapist: he interacts with her in structured 50-minute sessions. The people who deal with him in settings he doesn’t control think he’s an asshole. If your relationship ever changes from long-distance to short-distance, I foresee Kind Boyfriend Who Supported You in a Crisis showing up less often than MRA Who Calls You Names and Acts Obnoxious and Also for Some Stupid Reason Steals Pens.

I don’t like this guy for you.

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

Sorry, I know it’s terrible when someone ASKS for advice, you GIVE the advice, the person AGREES with the advice then still does the opposite. It’s irritating, I know. I love you guys, I think your advice is sound and valuable, I just can’t bring myself to actually follow most of that. I will continue the week without talking to him and give him the ultimatum you advised me. Maybe extend the time to one month. But that’s the most I can bring myself to want to do. 🙁

OoglyBoggles
OoglyBoggles
6 years ago

@Chiomara
It’s okay, it’s your choice after all, and forcing you into a decision wouldn’t be the decision you yourself personally believe in. At least with the decision you made, it’ll provide alot more time for you to collect your thoughts. I can’t speak for everyone but as far as I’m concerned you’ll always have a sympathetic ear to hear you in this community.

EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

@Chiomara:
Thank you for sharing, thank you for keeping us in touch, and thank you for being a wonderful human being. Whatever you decide to do, please know that we’re your friends and we’ll be there to support you.

Kat
Kat
6 years ago

@Chiomara
That’s okay. Try to stay aware of your feelings throughout whatever path you take. They will send you messages.

Chiomara
Chiomara
6 years ago

@Msexception

This sounds so awesome. Congratulations!

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
6 years ago

@Peep

I did send a follow-up response, but they never got to it.

Kylo Ronin
Kylo Ronin
6 years ago

Sorry if I am super late in replying!

@Viscaria

Thanks for the support and compliment. A friend of mine came up with it, combining my alternate internet handle and the infamous villain due to my immense love for TFA so credit goes to him. 🙂

@Scildfreja

Thanks for the support.

@Axecalibur

Yeah, the irony is that my friend is half German and half Mexican whereas I am Mexican American. So I’m still having trouble comprehending why he would say that, aside from lulz. Thanks for the support and advice.

LaterSpaceCowboy
LaterSpaceCowboy
6 years ago

@Chio
Chiming in to second weirwoodtreehugger. My impression from what you’ve shared is this man lacks self-control. I’ve done the “I need to be right, always,” schtick in the past and it definitely wasn’t leading me anywhere positive. My advice is get off the Titanic while there are still lifeboats. Obviously you know your situation better than any of us, but I note I’ve seen a lot of threads from you where I’ve give “damn…that lady sounds like she’s been through some stuff.” Just…take care of yourself, ok? Life is short, so make the most of what you’ve got left of it and don’t let negative people pull you into time-wasting horsecrap.

mockingbird
mockingbird
6 years ago

OT, but posting here because it’s the most relevant recent post:

That awkward moment when the stuff discussed on this site bleeds its way onto social media:

http://i.imgur.com/3Q8dDpZ.png

I didn’t block out names because it’s on a public page (Washington Post).

Thanks again to David, though. If not for this site, I’d not recognize the talking points and the general directed rage as being part of a “thing”.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@Chio
So you two decided to take a break for a week and before that week was over he came to you being all sugary sweet and promising things will be different? That just sounds really manipulative to me. He didn’t give you the space you needed to clear your head.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 years ago

@Chiomara

Whatever you do, I will not fault you. However, I want you to note this:

You asked for a very simple, very easy-to-understand thing. You wanted a week apart with no contact.

He decided that what you wanted didn’t matter, and contacted you anyway despite your stated wishes.

He decided that what you wanted didn’t matter.

He’s telling you who he is. He’s telling you that he’s someone who doesn’t believe that what you want is important.

I won’t fault you for sticking with him if that’s what you decide to do, but I want you to see clearly what has just happened here.

All the best to you, and, like others, I too want you to be happy someday. This guy doesn’t seem to be making you happy. :/

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
6 years ago

@Chiomara, I just wanted to send you some of those long-distance-internet-stranger hugs (that are not terribly useful, but they’re all that will fit through the ether onto your screen) if that’s OK by you. I am probably just about the last person to give anybody useful thoughts about relationships, but {{{hugs}}} if you want ’em – and fwiw, what many of the others have mentioned and what PoM just said rings true to me.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this :-\

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
6 years ago

@Chio, I don’t want to pile on with doubts, you have enough, so I’m going to say some positive things after the negative ones, ok?

He’s just come to you telling you how right you are about the things that you feel, and how wrong he’s been, and that he’s going to make all of these deep, fundamental changes to his perspective just for you. These are strong signs of devotion and love!

They may not be signs of devotion and love to you, though. They may be signs of devotion and love to having you.

My sister is just getting through the tail end of a custody and divorce to a guy who did this to her – promised her the moon and poured his heart out about how much he loved her. Thing is, he never followed through. He swept her off of her feet with his apologies and devotions, and then once his prize was secure again he went back to his old habits. The kindness is just the sugar that kept her as one of his possessions.

That is not to say that it’s the same with you, but that sort of behaviour is common, and he sounds a lot like that. Extremely charming when he wants, extremely callous otherwise. Narcissistic (not the medical diagnosis, necessarily).

I understand you wanting to stay with him – I can’t say I’d choose different from you, actually. I’m not even going to say you shouldn’t keep trying. He does make you feel good, and if he does want to change, you’ll have something really special.

But that should be the condition. He needs to be sincere in changing. Talk to him in a week or two about feminism – the wage gap’s a great acid test in my opinion but anything will do – and see if he’s more receptive or not. If he’s back to his old ways, I don’t think a relationship with him would leave you happy in the long run :s

All of that said – your eyes are up and you’re thinking about these things, so it’s gonna turn out fine regardless of your choice, I think. You might make some bad decisions, but we all do that. There’s no shame in it.

Everyone worries about ‘making the right choice’, and that’s natural and okay, but it’s really just a matter of perception. You aren’t sure what to do about him because there’s some aspect of your relationship that isn’t clear to you just yet. Keep looking around, thinking, reading, and it’ll reveal itself.

Maybe he’ll say something that condemns him, maybe he’ll say something that exalts him. Maybe you’ll read something and something in your brain will click. But you’re aware that something’s wrong and you’re actively looking for what it is and whether it can be fixed. All you have to do is keep that up and it’ll all turn out, right as rain. 🙂

Dan Hagen
6 years ago

The PUA movement started with guys who would put on feathered hats, googles, and blinking necklaces and hit on women in nightclubs. It’s no surprise that this next generation of them looks up to a clown as their shining prince.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
6 years ago

It was funny to see the pictures of Meryl Streep in the paper today dressed up as Trump! She had to go one better than her “Iron Lady” performance.

K-dog
K-dog
6 years ago

This sad, pathetic cancer of a subculture that’s turning emotionally crippled boys into emotionally crippled men…it’s laughable in the worst way.

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