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“I wonder if there’s a single person writing on ‘toxic masculinity’ who could out deadlift a certified alpha,” Red Piller wonders

Do you even lift, baby?
Do you even lift, baby?

Here’s what is unquestionably the Red Pill Quote of the Day. Well, to be perfectly honest, of two days ago, but I only saw it just now. It comes courtesy of the FeMRADebates subreddit

toxic

H/T — TheBluePill

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Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
7 years ago

Unrelated, but has David seen this? This girl is awesome.

Moocow
Moocow
7 years ago

These goddamn idiots don’t understand what toxic masculinity even is! They hear ‘toxic masculinity’ and think, ‘What? Are you saying masculinity is inherently toxic?’.

NO, you hypothetical straw man, and to any lurking MRAs, NOBODY IS SAYING THAT. GOOGLE A FUCKING TERM BEFORE YOU DECLARE IT AN ASSAULT ON YOUR PERSONAL IDENTITY.

I feel like SOOOOO many arguments could be solved sooooo easily….

cassiopeia
cassiopeia
7 years ago

@alaisvex

Wow, what a shining beacon of positive masculinity GayLubeOil is indeed! Truly, any feminist analysis of the toxic aspects of gender roles and masculinity that does not devote itself fully to admiring his achievements and promoting the wisdom and maturity of his ways is nothing but a strawman intended to keep down white cishet men everywhere!

Also, there is no iron in greek yogurt whatsoever. The calcium in it competes with iron for active absorption, so it actually has a net negative effect on a person’s iron intake. And for those women who have periods, poor iron absorption, or whose bodies just don’t produce red blood cells so actively, it’s not their fault. Getting enough iron can be really hard if you’re one of them, nothing like it is for most guys who can just eat red meat like they do anyway and be done with it. – I had to get this out, his smugly expressed bullshit has lingered with me and annoyed me ever since that post appeared on this blog.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

@LBT @lacerta viridis

lacerta viridis is correct, TeRPer refers to those who blather on about The Red Pill claptrap. I first saw it on the TRP-mocking The Blue Pill subreddit and got a kick out of it. Sorry for the confusion.

I get an even bigger kick out of the r/againstmensrights (r/amr) subreddit calling MRAs “the misters”, a play on r/mensrights (r/mr), but I’m easily amused.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

@LBT

It’s complicated. Basically, there were a few isolated incidences of overreaction… which then blew up into this MYTHOS that everyone was on an actual witch-hunt.

There were shocking case that turned into actual witch hunts, such as the dozens of sex abuse prosecution in Wenatchee, Washington.

That said, I agree that the satanic panic narrative took over in pernicious way. There are children who are sex trafficked in the US and there are real instances of cult related child abuse.

To me, the most depressing thing about the “panic” is that people believed the authorities were always aggressively and vigorously investigating and prosecuting child sexual abuse in general. Theoretically, pedophiles were painted as the ultimate villains but in reality child sex abuse accusations were not only bungled, they were ignored or hushed up more often than people think. That’s particularly true with minorities and teenagers in general.

This is slightly off topic, but I never forgot what a Chicago Times reporter who did an expose of R Kelly’s many unpunished sex crimes:

The saddest fact I’ve learned is: Nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

The last quote is for a Village Voice interview.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2013/12/read_the_stomac.php

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
7 years ago
GiJoel
GiJoel
7 years ago

On a completely different note, there’s a lot of whining in the manosphere about Phillip Zimbardo’s book ‘The Demise of Guys.’ Admittedly, a lot of the research appears hockey, and cherry picked but the whiny comments are just gems like this one.

Why aren’t young men volunteering for the human bondage of low-quality wage slavery leading to servitude to a woman in marriage followed by an early, convenient death so their earnings can be disbursed to the State, their widows and a number of “licensed professionals”?

This path was the path tread by generations, but now the last step is prematurely arrived at by divorce, followed by death for many a man. The “Greatest Generation”, you know, the one which created our astronomical deficit and drove thousands of young men to death and destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan, has built a body of laws and customs which was engineered to speed men along this trajectory.

Why is this human bondage no longer seen as a positive step post-Ritalin for so many young men? Why can’t they conform? Is it an internalized feminist rejection of “hegemonic masculinity”? Or is it just the ennui that arises after a lifetime of being told that maleness is bad, and hence young men are intrinsically worthless, as they are not young women? Feminism and the predominant anti-male culture of America are not addressed in “Dr.” Zimbardo’s book (he is a psychologist, not a physicist or a brain surgeon). The awakening of young men regarding the intensely bigoted body of family law they will be governed by if married is not addressed by the good doctor, either.

We are befuddled by young men’s rejection of the traditional male road to adulthood, even in this misandric climate we live in, so we must, of course, blame…the young men themselves. After all, they are not young women. Were they young women, we’d see taxpayer-funded task forces and programs ready to solve this key social problem, funded with our taxpayer dollars, of course.

But society still needs these young slackers, if they could just be torn from their X-Boxes and porn addictions (thank you George Bush and the brain-damaged feminists out there). These men are, after all, both indispensable, needed by society to fight our wars and produce the next generation of taxpayers, as well as utterly disposable…for the same reasons.

Ironically, Zimbardo, the developer of the Stanford Prison Experiment, seems not to understand the influence of situational reality on the behavior of young men, where they are subject to the absence of due process in secondary schools, colleges (hello Duke University lacrosse team and The Department of Ed’s “Office for Civil Rights”), and adulthood (Innocence Project, we need more of you). Cognitive dissonance, indeed.

Read this book and do one of two things: (1) point your fingers at the young slackers you encounter and tell them to “man up”, to be uttered of course in a tone of Hymowitzian/Bennetovian disdainful fury, or (2) realize this is just another piece of machinery that is designed to move males along the chute to the bleed rail of middle age, where they can be processed for the benefit of others after a life of toil and increasing disposability

From Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00850HTHO/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?k=The+Demise+of+Guys%3A+Why+Boys+Are+Struggling+and+What+We+Can+Do+About+It&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=helpful&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

There are other comments like it.

There are a ton of comments on Slashdot, where whiny, white libertarians complain that the world hasn’t pulled up thrones for their dainty derrières.

http://games.slashdot.org/story/15/05/11/1414213/psychologist-porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis

And so on.

Kootiepatra
7 years ago

@sevenofmine:

I personally loved the “why not describe the highly disciplined red pill man who’d never damage his health for momentary pleasure?” thing. Um, maybe because that’s not what that particular essay/paper/article/whatever was about? Do you even brain, bro?

MRA’s and MRA-adjacent types are particularly good at decrying articles for not being the exact article with the exact talking points that they would have written.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

MRA’s and MRA-adjacent types are particularly good at decrying articles for not being the exact article with the exact talking points that they would have written.

Those who can, do. Those who can’t…whine about “misandry”.

Falconer
7 years ago

About the OP … I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Ellesar
Ellesar
7 years ago

A young English actor – Tyger Drew Honey – did a documentary exploring aspects of ‘masculinity’ for young men in Britain. When he got to the ‘lifters’ he found some very unhealthy practices, primarily using various build up powders with many a dangerous ingredient, and technically illegal in the UK. Their obsession with their appearance and constant comparison to other men was not very healthy either.

Steroid abuse is still common in the body building world, and we all know how healthy that isn’t. Some men take Tamoxifen, which represses all oestrogen production. If I spent more time on body buildings forums I am sure I would know many more ways these men are harming themselves physically and psychologically.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

@brooked – My god, that Village Voice article. I knew about R. Kelly’s exploitation of Aaliyah, and about the sex rape tape charges, but I had no idea about what a systematic, calculating predator he was. I didn’t know whether to cry or to throw up by the time I was done reading. Thanks for linking that, it’s something more people need to know.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Ellesar,
I knew a young man who by 20 had already damaged his heart by taking a chemical that made muscles swell so that your muscles looked bigger.It never occurred to him that his heart was a muscle too. He thought if you could buy it off the shelf it was safe. It’s off the selves now.

I was a Pagan for a while and had no idea there was truth to the ritual abuse claims. I just knew I had to keep my religion a secret because of the stigma. There was a book called Michelle Remembers that was debunked. Her doctor was blamed for messing with her mind. He later married her which is a serious breech of ethics. I’m appalled to find out the daycare abuse was real. For years I thought those people were put in prison for nothing. GAH! It is scary that people could get something so wrong.

*Trigger warning*

I tried so hard as a kid to convince myself my sexual abuse never really happened but I couldn’t do it. I thought buried memories sounded like a good solution. (I know better now.) My fear of being found out lasted so long that I only recently found the strength to talk about it. When I had my wisdom teeth out as a teen my greatest fear was that I’d let my secret slip under anesthesia and my abuse was “mild”.

I can definitely see someone’s mind protecting them under more stress by shutting down those memories. We do what we have to to survive.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

@GIJoel – Oh, that comment is magnificent.

“Dr.” Zimbardo’s book (he is a psychologist, not a physicist or a brain surgeon).

The only psychologists that are REAL doctors are evopsychologists.

These men are, after all, both indispensable, needed by society to fight our wars and produce the next generation of taxpayers, as well as utterly disposable…for the same reasons.

Yes, in the U.S. we press-gang young men into military service. That’s why we have all-volunteer armed forces and a selective service system* that hasn’t been used in forty-plus years. And women are never even considered for military service, which is why 200,000 women are currently in uniform, 1.4% of the veteran’s population are women, and the Pentagon has stepped up its efforts to the recruit them in recent years.

And here’s where this turns into a teal deer. Apologies in advance, especially to all of the Marines, airmen, and sailors out there; I was Army, so I’m just going to generically refer to service members as soldiers from here on out.

Do these guys realize how much they misrepresent modern soldiers – I’d say male soldiers especially – when they carry on about men being forced to fight wars? As I just stated, the United States has an all volunteer military. There are definitely people who wouldn’t be in uniform if they had better options, but currently everyone is there *by choice.* Everyone, including men, stands up and takes that oath with their own personal motivations. They sacrifice other ambitions, time with loved ones, years of their lives, and sometimes their very existence. For whatever reason they do it, they give a gift of themselves. And people like the guy GIJoel quoted just ignore that gracious act so that they can stand up next to that soldier and drape themselves in his mantle of responsibility. It is the burden imposed on all men, they claim. If so, why are only 13.4% of the men in this country veterans? If an entire gender is tasked with service, why is that small group shouldering it all? A number of those older veterans were conscripted, yes. But so many of them, especially the men who stand on the front lines today, chose to raise their right hand, and they deserve to have their choice respected, not ignored.

Angry fellas, talk all you want about the effect of our violent, militarized culture on men and I’ll cheer you on. Talk about the version of masculinity that views armed service (specifically combat) as a necessary right of passage to be a “real” man; I’ll help you smash that as the bullshit it is. Rail against how unfair it is that men are still the only ones on the Selective Service rolls. I’ll send letters to Congress along with yours, asking them to make the draft gender-neutral or better yet, abolish it all together.

But don’t erase the choice service members make. Question what draws men into the military all you like. And then acknowledge their service as the offering that it is.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

A young English actor – Tyger Drew Honey – did a documentary exploring aspects of ‘masculinity’ for young men in Britain. When he got to the ‘lifters’ he found some very unhealthy practices, primarily using various build up powders with many a dangerous ingredient, and technically illegal in the UK. Their obsession with their appearance and constant comparison to other men was not very healthy either.

Steroid abuse is still common in the body building world, and we all know how healthy that isn’t. Some men take Tamoxifen, which represses all oestrogen production. If I spent more time on body buildings forums I am sure I would know many more ways these men are harming themselves physically and psychologically.

Ugh. My mom had breast cancer. The lumpectomy and the radiation didn’t have nearly as bad an effect on her as the tamoxifen follow-up chemo did. She had to stop taking it because it made her tired and sick and gave her hot flashes all the time (and she was already postmenopausal, so she didn’t have much existing estrogen to suppress!). These guys are fools if they think it won’t have a bad effect on them, as well. If this is their idea of “healthy” masculinity, they are doin it rong. There’s a reason why they have that hormone, and it’s not what they think it is.

I’m going to see now if I can find that documentary anywhere.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

Nuts, how did that * after “selective service” sneak into my post? Please excuse that, and any other typos that I might have missed.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

GiJoel,
I’m always bewildered by people believing that having hobbies = not doing anything. It’s like these guys are screaming “Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!” at younger men. They never complain that men who watch sports or fish are slackers. It’s all about them being unable to identify with or control the younger generation.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Well, my personal trainer is a feminist and LGBTQ-activist, former body builder (on a championship level) and has done… well, I don’t remember exactly, but it’s well above 200 kilos anyway, in deadlift. I’m pretty certain that’s above what many a certified alpha has managed. And zie’s a FAAB genderqueer person.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

@GiJoel:

Is that hollow lament for real, or are you satirizing Zimbardo’s arguments?

In case it’s the former, all those terrible, unspeakable, horrendous maladies you listed that supposedly befall American (OMG!) men are, first, not maladies, second, nothing new, and, third, normal expectations and challenges men experience in their lives since time immemorial and world over.

For immigrants like myself, it is always spectacularly, um, entertaining (read: laughably pathetic) to hear the most privileged people on Earth — white American men — whine about their station in life.

BTW, if marriage is not your thing, don’t marry. Nobody forces men to marry — not now, not ever. There are many life paths available to men who are either afraid of, uninterested (in relationships with women), or unwilling to commit to marriage.

P.S. Zimbardo’s doctorate in psychology is real, which makes him a real doctor.

monopole
monopole
7 years ago

Um I’m pretty certain Henry Rollins can deadlift more than any of these terper idiots combined and not put up with any of their shite
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-if-i-was-a-woman-these-days-i-d-be-killing-motherfuckers-my-handgun-would-never-cool-and-my-hands-henry-rollins-262727.jpg

Spindrift
Spindrift
7 years ago

@Aunt Edna “@GiJoel:

Is that hollow lament for real, or are you satirizing Zimbardo’s arguments?”

Think they were quoting a whiney manosphere guy but forgot quotation marks. Not sure.

Lukasz van Heezik
7 years ago

Hi guys. I’m sorry for going off-topic here, but I need some guidance on #Gamergate stuff and I was hoping you guys could advise.

I’m currently attending a game design academy (and enjoying it very much). Although the vast majority of enrolled students (including me) are male, the school has a very feminist atmosphere. This is especially promoted by two of the professors, one of which left the school earlier this year.

A few days ago, the professor who left the school posted on Facebook that she’d been harassed by #gators for her feminist viewpoints, which worried me. Today, I did some searching and found a thread on the 8chan /gamergatehq board that had posted her personal information and a long essay listing her alleged transgressions. The OP claims to be a student at my school, and based on the other information in the post, I can make a pretty definite case for who it is.

The OP has now begun a second thread about the other feminist-minded professor, again giving out personal info, pictures, workplace etc. with the intention of starting a shitstorm.

The question is, where do I go from here? I’ve informed both professors of the fact that this has been happening (though I haven’t mentioned who the poster is). I’m not sure whether I should confront the person who made the posts, to get my suspicions confirmed, or whether I should just anonymously report this to the school board and let it sort itself out.

I’m afraid that if the OP knows I pointed the finger at them, they’ll organize an online mob against me. On the other hand, I don’t want to let it die away without some kind of justice being served. Please, what should I do?

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
7 years ago

@Spindrift:

Thanks. Wasn’t clear.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
7 years ago

FWIW I read GIJoels’ post as intro, copypasted review from dude on Amazon (link’s at the end) then a closing comment and a link to a new article. I don’t think GIJoe is joining the freakout over Zimbardo’s book, just sharing some “love” from the reviews.

@monopole – Wow, that’s a vivid image. Henry Rollins is even more intense than I remembered. Not sure how I feel about that quote.

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